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Diedhiou v Semenyo


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8 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No the player does not show a lot in channels, he is hardly working North to South and East to West. I did not state he did not take part in defending dead balls. Note the use of dead balls. Its common to see forwards used in a similar fashion and it will not expend that much energy in the same manner as pressing which the teams alters when Famara is present in it.

The team with respect will obviously played differently offensively and defensively with Reid in it. He offered different tactical flexibility because of his work rate and mobility. He did what Famara does not does very well. 

 

Seriously? He didn’t work the channels to try & win 40 yard hoofs? Or out on the sidelines at about the half way line? I’m intrigued, who did then?

I’m not saying Diédhiou is the best in the world at what he’s doing but he can only chase what is pumped up to him. The ball is seldom played through midfield & the first opportunity Diédhiou gets to be involved in an attack is very rarely with him in & around the opposition’s penalty area (where ideally a striker should be doing his most / best work.

Personally the best player I’ve seen play the position this season was Patrick Bamford & I’ve not seen anyone come close to him in playing the role & I was surprised at just how good he was.

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8 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Like to see Semenyo ahead of Famara as he has a better game for the football City play.

I’d like to see it tried in a cup game where there isn’t points on the line because I fear that after 20 minutes Semenyo would realise what a tough job it is. For the record, when has Semenyo ever played first team football as the striker on his own because he didn’t do it at Newport on loan or at City so far & as a team in the top six, I’d suggest it’s a massive risk to play a youngster with none to very little experience of playing that role ahead of someone that has played it considerably more.

I’d worry that asking Semenyo to play that position would ruin him as he’d struggle up against two, three or four defenders at a time.

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2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Seriously? He didn’t work the channels to try & win 40 yard hoofs? Or out on the sidelines at about the half way line? I’m intrigued, who did then?

I’m not saying Diédhiou is the best in the world at what he’s doing but he can only chase what is pumped up to him. The ball is seldom played through midfield & the first opportunity Diédhiou gets to be involved in an attack is very rarely with him in & around the opposition’s penalty area (where ideally a striker should be doing his most / best work.

Personally the best player I’ve seen play the position this season was Patrick Bamford & I’ve not seen anyone come close to him in playing the role & I was surprised at just how good he was.

You have this opinion that he is a all action forward busting his balls out there. As poster after poster month after month point out others work harder. You take defensive as being defends corners? I look at that as  screening and blocking passing options and the player he is frequently languid when doing this. As for pressing the team has to play differently because the player can't/won't do this to the level needed. City now use medium blocks v high presses with Famara in the team. 

No the player does not work channels a lot. His movement and fitness means he cannot as others do. If that is the task the players key skills should fit it. This player is no 100% workhorse. Post explosive speed his recovery? Its extended.

  

 

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6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You have this opinion that he is a all action forward busting his balls out there. As poster after poster month after month point out others work harder. You take defensive as being defends corners? I look at that as  screening and blocking passing options and the player he is frequently languid when doing this. As for pressing the team has to play differently because the player can't/won't do this to the level needed. City now use medium blocks v high presses with Famara in the team. 

No the player does not work channels a lot. His movement and fitness means he cannot as others do. If that is the task the players key skills should fit it. This player is no 100% workhorse. Post explosive speed his recovery? Its extended.

  

 

There’s probably a reason why LJ has decided not to play Semenyo in a role that he’s never played in before ahead of Diédhiou, isn’t there? And I wouldn’t suggest it’s because LJ is scared to drop Diédhiou so it would point to it being that LJ doesn’t see Semenyo as being able to do that job right now!

That’s not to say that he couldn’t in the future but at 18 he has no experience of playing the hold up role upfront against big, strong centre halves! Even on Saturday despite Diédhiou being absolutely shattered, LJ didn’t take Diédhiou off & allow Semenyo even 5 minutes as the lone striker!

And it would probably also help explain why Taylor was allowed to leave on loan as it’s felt that Semenyo could play in his style of play rather than in the Diédhiou / Afobe style of play.

I can only imagine the blow up had Semenyo played upfront as a replacement for Afobe on Saturday & it hadn’t worked out! LJ for the large part has stopped making random changes because he’s seemingly learnt that it’s simply not viable as we are.

In my opinion, now, in league games isn’t the time to give such responsibility to Semenyo. Now if Weimann is unavailable then playing Semenyo wouldn’t be as big a risk as Semenyo would have someone else to do the donkey work for him.

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4 hours ago, downendcity said:

He's an awkward player, and will be a handful for defenders to deal with and one I suspect they don't relish.

The way that benefits the team is when his presence pulls defenders out of position, creating space for others. However, that benefit is countered as all too often when he fails to make the most of possession - usually because of poor control. Also, looking at him as a striker, while he has a decent scoring record for us, there's no doubting that he misses too many gilt edged chances - which you cant afford at this level. While Afobe has missed a few good chances, would Famara have put away all the chances that Afobe has?

Having said all of that, for much of  the last two seasons he's been asked to perform a thankless task as a lone striker.

 

Personally I don’t think he does drag defenders around. If anything (and being kind) i would say he was asked to stay central (last season) as a focal point....but if I was the CB marking him I would think “great, I’m not gonna get dragged into the channels, I can mark tight because he isn’t gonna spin me, and if he gets it down he isn’t gonna roll me and I can try to nip it away from him”. In effect I ain’t gonna be chasing him left right and centre. 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Yes his work ethic is different. His anaerobic strength, its recovery post run is poor. This means he has to work differently to players who have greater aerobic and anaerobic ability. 

I have posted the player is prone to being lazy. The team has to play differently to include him = Hr cant do the yards if the intent was to go high line sand press/ counter press, press in units. Its his movement into defensive shapes and showing for the ball which I would class as frequently lazy, he will walk and shuffle in to positions.

The role Famara has frequently means he is not working channels, he is not chasing lots of % balls and his is not pressing. Its quite conservative.  

He does not do three jobs, a Reid did.  

 

Totally agree. 

@Tipps69 you’ve got to divorce coming back for a corner to general play / work rate in concluding in your opinion that Fam works hard. The ball is dead at corners and it’s not a sprint to get into position. 

Im not saying he doesn’t work hard, but I would be surprised if his high intensity work compared to other strikers in the Champ. I know he isn’t a Reid or Weimann!  Could we get 60 minutes out of him at higher intensity rather than try to get him through 90 mins at reduced intensity?

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No!

suspect that data costs a lot of money!  @hodge do you have it?

I don’t think Diedhiou is lazy, but from my eye I don’t see him running at full tilt often enough. Perhaps his running style is deceiving. 

Nope, think InStat my provide physical data but not sure

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Personally I don’t think he does drag defenders around. If anything (and being kind) i would say he was asked to stay central (last season) as a focal point....but if I was the CB marking him I would think “great, I’m not gonna get dragged into the channels, I can mark tight because he isn’t gonna spin me, and if he gets it down he isn’t gonna roll me and I can try to nip it away from him”. In effect I ain’t gonna be chasing him left right and centre. 

Totally agree. 

@Tipps69 you’ve got to divorce coming back for a corner to general play / work rate in concluding in your opinion that Fam works hard. The ball is dead at corners and it’s not a sprint to get into position. 

Im not saying he doesn’t work hard, but I would be surprised if his high intensity work compared to other strikers in the Champ. I know he isn’t a Reid or Weimann!  Could we get 60 minutes out of him at higher intensity rather than try to get him through 90 mins at reduced intensity?

So Saturday at Stoke, you get 60 minutes out of him & then would of replaced him with who? Afobe? Semenyo? Janner? We don’t have any options for him to be able to do that!

And are you seriously telling me that during open play you are expecting our lone striker to go back & defend? And then imagine the grief he would get!?!

He’s getting abuse for trying to win 40 yard balls that are pumped up to him as it is & now you are expecting our lone striker to go back & defend from open play? And then when yet another 40 yard  ball is pumped up to the halfway line & he’s running out with our midfield, how much grief is he going to get?

If he was playing in a two or three up top & one of them stayed up top then yes I suppose you could expect him to track back but Wiemann & Palmer are already tracking back!

It’s infuriating enough when everyone comes back for a corner / free kick & we clear a ball to no one but now you’re expecting us to do it from open play to? Seriously? Back in the day Wayne Allison might of tracked back but someone else would of stayed up front, even Andy Cole might of come back but Jacki would of stayed up too or visa versa but very rarely or if ever at all would we have been left with no up front at all!

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6 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

So Saturday at Stoke, you get 60 minutes out of him & then would of replaced him with who? Afobe? Semenyo? Janner? We don’t have any options for him to be able to do that!

Eh?  Saturday v Stoke we had Semenyo who could come on as his replacement (ignore the tactical change that LJ made earlier).  Afobe was ineligible and Janneh is injured.  If we roll forward to this Saturday, we have 4 main strikers - Fam, Afobe, Weimann and Semenyo, plus LJ believes Szmodics can play up top too (albeit very different attributes).

And are you seriously telling me that during open play you are expecting our lone striker to go back & defend? And then imagine the grief he would get!?!

No!!  I’m saying to anyone who thinks putting a shift in (high intensity effort-Wise) includes coming back for corners is wrong imho.  Nowhere have I suggested he should be back in our own box during general play.  I do expect him to close down passing lanes better than he does and press harder than he does.  I don’t think his fitness levels have improved that much since he first joined.  Back in 17/18 he was often knackered after 60-70 minutes and subbed, when I felt he worked harder when opposition defenders had it.

He’s getting abuse for trying to win 40 yard balls that are pumped up to him as it is

Where have I said that.  Last season I defended his options to pumped balls because he had nobody alongside him.  Saturday v Stoke he did.  But actually pumped balls is not something i’ve Criticised him for - it is the shorter passes into his feet where he doesn’t retain it.  Last season he was isolated.  Saturday v Stoke, he wasn’t isolated and lost possession virtually every time he received a shorter pass.  Look at the graphic below....he didn’t receive lots of hoofed balls on Saturday. 

& now you are expecting our lone striker to go back & defend from open play?

Nope - explained above.

And then when yet another 40 yard  ball is pumped up to the halfway line & he’s running out with our midfield, how much grief is he going to get?

You’re arguing a point that wasn’t made! 😜

If he was playing in a two or three up top & one of them stayed up top then yes I suppose you could expect him to track back but Wiemann & Palmer are already tracking back!

You’re still going on! 😜😜

It’s infuriating enough when everyone comes back for a corner / free kick & we clear a ball to no one but now you’re expecting us to do it from open play to? Seriously? Back in the day Wayne Allison might of tracked back but someone else would of stayed up front, even Andy Cole might of come back but Jacki would of stayed up too or visa versa but very rarely or if ever at all would we have been left with no up front at all!

I’ve defended Fam’s contribution as much as many on here when asked to play on his own for most of last season.  I think he’s a decent enough striker in Championship football.  Saturday was a chance for him to show what he could do in a two (and with Semenyo on early, a three).  I didn’t think he contributed much.  Of course he scored a goal, and a good header it was too, but you know me, I’m not gonna bias my view of his overall performance because he scored.

This season, we have seen what a forward (Afobe) can bring to a team in terms of stretching defences, by willingness to run off the shoulder for through passes, or run the channels to drag his marker about...but also strength back to goal with the ball at his feet (and that isn’t considered to be one of his better attributes).  I’ve also been fair in saying he’s had a strike partner to share the load in Weimann.  But Saturday, Diedhiou had that same partner, and against 10 men too, and I didn’t think he bust a gut when we had the ball, not when they had it.  From my point of view he frustrated me on Saturday.

It’s a one game viewpoint, but I stand by the fact that I would rather see Fam run around more at high intensity to (I) create passing options for his teammates, (ii) drag his markers around, (iii) press the CBs on the ball and (iv) shut down passing lanes....and if he can only do this for 60-70 minutes, bring someone else on.  We have options.

I don’t dislike Fam, I just think we could get a more effective contribution from him.

 

8E03F0A2-1528-4216-A290-E83F942B5F4E.jpeg

Edited by Davefevs
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More than happy with the role Semenyo has at the minute. If he can come off the bench and impress then we will see more of him. We need him to be willing to prove the point rather than thinking he will be fast tracked due to previous higher level interest in him.

Fam over Semenyo for me until Antoine proves us otherwise.

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44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

8E03F0A2-1528-4216-A290-E83F942B5F4E.jpeg

My post wasn’t entirely to just you, it was also aimed at those that claim he doesn’t do enough & your chart thing has him receiving passes out wide (where I’d expect wide players to be) 7 times out of 16 & that was just the actual balls that are classed as passes to him, not the passes / hoofs that went beyond him or that were won by the defenders.

As the focal point of our attack on Saturday, I’m sure he was asked to to make sure he didn’t allow the defenders an easy ride & while Weimann generally played right & Palmer played left, Diédhiou was still out on the right & left wings trying to win balls. At no point on Saturday did I stand there & ask myself where Diédhiou was because a defender had to much time, he was out towards their right back, left back & centre backs.

It also has to be considered, what sort of balls was Diédhiou dealing with? Balls played into feet or balls played from back to front with the aim of just clearing any potential danger so they were coming out of the sky?

It’s already been stated that no one knows what distances he or anyone else ran or at what percentage were sprints? And again, at no point on Saturday did I look around wondering where Diédhiou was or why he wasn’t in a certain position. I’ve passed my coaching badges, I’ve watched football for over 40 years & by that I mean I’ve watched a lot of football & I’ve played a lot of football. I don’t turn up to games drunk (in fact I had one pint before Saturday’s game & I don’t drink at all before home games), I am at games to watch the football & asses everything & mates moan at me because I don’t join in with the singing etc, that’s because I’m immersed in watching the football so my view isn’t of someone that pays little attention to what’s going on on the pitch.

We’re clearly not going to agree on this @Davefevs but there is more to a game & a players performance than what your charts show & given the options that we had available to us last Saturday, I wouldn’t of swapped any of them about the only slight issue I had was the subbing of Taylor Moore.

Do I expect Diédhiou to keep his place on Saturday? No. Afobe will be back in but what I would like to see at some stage is Diédhiou & Afobe played together, I honestly believe that any opposition defence would fear seeing the pair of them lining against them.

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13 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

We’re clearly not going to agree on this @Davefevs but there is more to a game & a players performance than what your charts show & given the options that we had available to us last Saturday, I wouldn’t of swapped any of them about the only slight issue I had was the subbing of Taylor Moore.

couldn't agree more....indeed there is more than charts....they just help demonstrate / show / prove certain things.  I’ve hardly stuck a bunch of pics up without plenty of additional words have I?  You seem to think I would’ve picked Semenyo over Fam last Saturday?  I’ve not suggested that anywhere.  I too thought the early sub of Moore was a bit of a panic.  All I'm saying is that I don’t think he had a very good game (good goal aside) and I think he could do more in our current system / shape....given that now includes a strike partner, and a guy behind with great passing quality....things we felt he would benefit from that we didn’t have last season.

Do I expect Diédhiou to keep his place on Saturday? No. Afobe will be back in but what I would like to see at some stage is Diédhiou & Afobe played together, I honestly believe that any opposition defence would fear seeing the pair of them lining against them.

I haven’t written off Fam, he still has a part to play....I’m sure some game time will be alongside Afobe, like it was at Hull for 75 minutes.  But Afobe is a big upgrade imho...and in our current way of playing I see a more natural partnership of Afobe with Weimann.  Semenyo, still raw.

 

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Diedhiou's body shape is generally all wrong when he is receiving the ball. He looks for the contact and is more interested in winning free kicks rather than using his physicality to get in front of the defender to bring the ball under control. Unfortunately he also doesn't have the pace to drop deeper and spin into the channels to chase the longer passes. He is generally very good with the ball in front of him/ running at defenders or attacking far post crosses.

Afobe on the other hand, generally receives the ball on the half-turn, or gets himself into the right position to be able to control and retain possession. He has all Deidhiou's attributes, plus 2 yards of pace and the ability to arrive in the box at the same time as the ball, rather than 3 seconds after it's been cleared.

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56 minutes ago, Oops said:

Diedhiou's body shape is generally all wrong when he is receiving the ball. He looks for the contact and is more interested in winning free kicks rather than using his physicality to get in front of the defender to bring the ball under control. Unfortunately he also doesn't have the pace to drop deeper and spin into the channels to chase the longer passes. He is generally very good with the ball in front of him/ running at defenders or attacking far post crosses.

If you remember, when Diédhiou first arrived & for a while after, he was pulled up & giving free kicks away left, right & centre for what seemed like (from a City point of view) very little, he seemingly couldn’t move without giving a foul away.

He’s had to adapt his game to avoid giving these free kicks away & he’s basically had to reinvent his game from the player he was.

Maybe this is where this perceived lack of effort is coming from?

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2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

If you remember, when Diédhiou first arrived & for a while after, he was pulled up & giving free kicks away left, right & centre for what seemed like (from a City point of view) very little, he seemingly couldn’t move without giving a foul away.

He’s had to adapt his game to avoid giving these free kicks away & he’s basically had to reinvent his game from the player he was.

Maybe this is where this perceived lack of effort is coming from?

I don’t think it’s lack of effort, more not as intense as we need it, both with and without the ball. 

Having adapted his game to play as a one, he may need to re-adapt it again to play as a two. He has some sublime touches at times, and has a good goals record too, especially when he’s been asked to play a tough role. 

So never writing him off, but proof of the pudding will be (for me) contribution to performance and goals when he gets the chance. I don’t think he hit the mark v Stoke or Hull, but it’s still very early in season. And I’ll get behind him whenever he plays. 

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Movement both on and off the ball is Famaras weakness imo.

He struggles to find himself space. His understanding of where to be on the pitch at times causes himself to be isolated.

He often creates too big a gap between himself and the midfield. Hence the link up play faltering or no option but to play the long ball to him.

He has to try and lose his man...give himself space to receive the ball. Instead...he always has a man on him when he receives it. Then the backing in and grappling starts...the quick moves break down as he's struggling to control. When he does make himself space...it works.

Defensively...he doesn't press with urgency. He jogs more often than not. The opposition still have plenty of time to find a pass with Famara jogging towards them.

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37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think it’s lack of effort, more not as intense as we need it, both with and without the ball. 

Having adapted his game to play as a one, he may need to re-adapt it again to play as a two. He has some sublime touches at times, and has a good goals record too, especially when he’s been asked to play a tough role. 

So never writing him off, but proof of the pudding will be (for me) contribution to performance and goals when he gets the chance. I don’t think he hit the mark v Stoke or Hull, but it’s still very early in season. And I’ll get behind him whenever he plays. 

A couple of things to take into account on this, he’s started limited games so his match fitness probably isn’t what it could be? He didn’t even come off the bench in the Middlesbrough game despite the club knowing that Afobe was unavailable for our next game (Stoke away) so he’s not been blessed with opportunities to stay up to speed.

You keep mentioning about him playing in a two up front now..... Is this with Wiemann or Palmer because while Diédhiou gets grief for not going back, if Weimann is supposed to be our second striker then I’d argue that he isn’t playing as a forward enough & maybe if he did stay up with Diédhiou, Diedhiou wouldn’t be seen as not doing enough by having to track all four defenders.

So if Weimann isn’t playing up top & Diedhiou is expected to track back then who is supposed to be in attack? Why is there a need for all 11 players to defend, no team sends all their defenders up during open play so why is there a need for 10 or 11 players to defend?

For example on Saturday, we started with a back 3 / 5, Massengo & Brownhill back there too & Weimann & Palmer tracking back & Bentley in goal, that’s 10 players back 90% (at least) of the time & explains why Diédhiou was left so badly exposed as we struggled to get him any support.

Why are we needing to defend with 11 players while the opposition isn’t attacking with 11 players? When was the last time one of our defenders (who in a 2 or 3 centre halves) were upfield during an attack in open play? And yet the majority of time there are 3 / 4 or even 7 of them back!

When the ball is cleared from our defence none of our defenders are expected to join in with our attacks, so why should our one out & out striker be expected to help the other 10 out? And yes, it’s a ‘team’ game but where is Diédhiou’s help?

He walked off that pitch Saturday absolutely shattered, I don’t think he had another 10 minutes left in him yet Williams who has had no pre season & was making his first appearance of the season seemingly still had a fair bit of energy left in him at 35 years old! I would suggest that was because Williams wasn’t doing enough to help the team out attacking wise! So why is Diédhiou expected to do his & others jobs & yet Williams gets to stand still or walk out when he’s done his job?

Sorry, it doesn’t make sense to me that one person is expected to do so much while others aren’t expected anywhere near as much.

I’m going to watch Afobe on Saturday & see how many times he’s challenging for balls in the left & right wing positions & to see how many times he’s back defending from open play & to see how quickly he gets support when the ball is played forward!

It very much seems like there are unrealistic expectations put on Diédhiou compared to other players!

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49 minutes ago, spudski said:

Movement both on and off the ball is Famaras weakness imo.

He struggles to find himself space. His understanding of where to be on the pitch at times causes himself to be isolated.

He often creates too big a gap between himself and the midfield. Hence the link up play faltering or no option but to play the long ball to him.

He has to try and lose his man...give himself space to receive the ball. Instead...he always has a man on him when he receives it. Then the backing in and grappling starts...the quick moves break down as he's struggling to control. When he does make himself space...it works.

Defensively...he doesn't press with urgency. He jogs more often than not. The opposition still have plenty of time to find a pass with Famara jogging towards them.

I was going to suggest the same thing, does Fam's lack of movement make him isolated…? 

I like Fam, and want him to do well but he has to learn to read the game better. He's not all bad though, and does have some incredible touches occasionally.

Perhaps on Saturday at Stoke he was trying too hard because he has lost his place to Benik?

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50 minutes ago, spudski said:

Movement both on and off the ball is Famaras weakness imo.

He struggles to find himself space. His understanding of where to be on the pitch at times causes himself to be isolated.

He often creates too big a gap between himself and the midfield. Hence the link up play faltering or no option but to play the long ball to him.

He has to try and lose his man...give himself space to receive the ball. Instead...he always has a man on him when he receives it. Then the backing in and grappling starts...the quick moves break down as he's struggling to control. When he does make himself space...it works.

Defensively...he doesn't press with urgency. He jogs more often than not. The opposition still have plenty of time to find a pass with Famara jogging towards them.

I would argue that the gap between him and the midfield is less to do with him and more to do with the midfield sitting too deep - I think this will change with the new personnel we have. 

He'd have a lot more space to run into if he was playing on the shoulder of the defender rather than being asked to hold the ball up for others/win the ball in the air. It's also much harder to defend against - but he can't do this if he has to get closer to the midfield - for me some of our midfielders need to push up. 

I just can't agree with your comment on urgency - it seems to meet that there are times when Diedhiou is the only one pressing the opposition's back line - again I expect this to change with our new personnel and a change away from one up front. 

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6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I was going to suggest the same thing, does Fam's lack of movement make him isolated…? 

I like Fam, and want him to do well but he has to learn to read the game better. He's not all bad though, and does have some incredible touches occasionally.

Perhaps on Saturday at Stoke he was trying too hard because he has lost his place to Benik?

 

4 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

I would argue that the gap between him and the midfield is less to do with him and more to do with the midfield sitting too deep - I think this will change with the new personnel we have. 

He'd have a lot more space to run into if he was playing on the shoulder of the defender rather than being asked to hold the ball up for others/win the ball in the air. It's also much harder to defend against - but he can't do this if he has to get closer to the midfield - for me some of our midfielders need to push up. 

I just can't agree with your comment on urgency - it seems to meet that there are times when Diedhiou is the only one pressing the opposition's back line - again I expect this to change with our new personnel and a change away from one up front. 

Famara sits too high on the shoulder of the last defender. It's him that creates too much space between himself and midfield. It doesn't happen with Adobe as he drops and creates space for himself.

When Famara sits so high, there is no space between him and the goalkeeper to receive the type of ball he's looking for. He has to come deeper when we have possession in our own half. Either to create space for himself or to provide better link up play with our Midfield.

Watch Afobe, his movements are far more astute, both when coming and when looking off the shoulder to run into a ball. Looking all the time to lose his man and move on the angle.

The only time Famara comes into his own is when we have have broken into the final third and he's in the box.

Outside the box, he's still got a lot of improvement to make.

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12 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Famara sits too high on the shoulder of the last defender. It's him that creates too much space between himself and midfield. It doesn't happen with Adobe as he drops and creates space for himself.

When Famara sits so high, there is no space between him and the goalkeeper to receive the type of ball he's looking for. He has to come deeper when we have possession in our own half. Either to create space for himself or to provide better link up play with our Midfield.

Watch Afobe, his movements are far more astute, both when coming and when looking off the shoulder to run into a ball. Looking all the time to lose his man and move on the angle.

The only time Famara comes into his own is when we have have broken into the final third and he's in the box.

Outside the box, he's still got a lot of improvement to make.

I don’t suppose he’s under instructions to stretch the game? And if the defence (opposition) want to play a higher line, surely that’s their prerogative, they surely wouldn’t allow one player to dictate that they play such a low line & in turn allow us closer to their goal! It’s not like we’re renowned for keeping 3 or 4 players upfront & destroying opposition defences with pace. So why would any team feel that they can’t play a higher line against us (if they wanted)?

I find it bizarre that someone who apparently doesn’t trouble opposition defenders enough with his movement is now able to dictate how a defence will play against us!

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6 hours ago, Oops said:

.

Diedhiou's body shape is generally all wrong when he is receiving the ball. He looks for the contact and is more interested in winning free kicks rather than using his physicality to get in front of the defender to bring the ball under control. Unfortunately he also doesn't have the pace to drop deeper and spin into the channels to chase the longer passes. He is generally very good with the ball in front of him/ running at defenders or attacking far post crosses.

Afobe on the other hand, generally receives the ball on the half-turn, or gets himself into the right position to be able to control and retain possession. He has all Deidhiou's attributes, plus 2 yards of pace and the ability to arrive in the box at the same time as the ball, rather than 3 seconds after it's been cleared.

While I appear to be coating the player off as a bad player and I do not think he is this is my observation of his receiving skills. In the timescale the player he has been at Bristol City he could/should have improved. His body is frequently in the wrong position due to his footwork. He frequently attempts to receive the ball with his feet splayed, crossing and is off balance.

Receiving the ball is a continuum. Llook, position, communicate, receive, release and repeat - That is the most successful means of receiving and releasing.

Farama looks at the opposition too frequently seeking to engage them rather than position himself to receive the ball and communicate with eyes and body with team mates. e.g. backing in to players looking for contact instead of using an arm length and hand to keep side on and receive the ball on his safe side. Famara's continuum can be to look at his opponent communicate with the opposition through physicality while attempting to position himself to receive the ball, its different to the above. 

Afobe is looking to play in front of defenders … 

 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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56 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I don’t suppose he’s under instructions to stretch the game? And if the defence (opposition) want to play a higher line, surely that’s their prerogative, they surely wouldn’t allow one player to dictate that they play such a low line & in turn allow us closer to their goal! It’s not like we’re renowned for keeping 3 or 4 players upfront & destroying opposition defences with pace. So why would any team feel that they can’t play a higher line against us (if they wanted)?

I find it bizarre that someone who apparently doesn’t trouble opposition defenders enough with his movement is now able to dictate how a defence will play against us!

Hi mate... you've only got to watch the difference between Afobe and Famara to see that we play the same way with either player playing.

However...Famara creates the problems. We don't get the same Problems when Afobe is playing.

Neither are great at pressing players when needed tbh.

You've only got to look and see how often the opposition create chances against us. Far more than many teams in this division.

Add Palmer into the team, and you have two offensive players that allow the opposition time and space in behind them.

It's no coincidence that our DM and Defenders are being over worked and kept busy.

When they don't press at a higher tempo, looking to make the opposition play quickly and less accurately, we have less opportunities to intercept and regain possession.

Weimann often ends up running around doing his work and half of others. Which in turn leads to him being in less effective areas when on the offensive.

Cowsheds last appraisal of Famara is spot on imo..

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Hi mate... you've only got to watch the difference between Afobe and Famara to see that we play the same way with either player playing.

However...Famara creates the problems. We don't get the same Problems when Afobe is playing.

Neither are great at pressing players when needed tbh.

You've only got to look and see how often the opposition create chances against us. Far more than many teams in this division.

Add Palmer into the team, and you have two offensive players that allow the opposition time and space in behind them.

It's no coincidence that our DM and Defenders are being over worked and kept busy.

When they don't press at a higher tempo, looking to make the opposition play quickly and less accurately, we have less opportunities to intercept and regain possession.

Weimann often ends up running around doing his work and half of others. Which in turn leads to him being in less effective areas when on the offensive.

Cowsheds last appraisal of Famara is spot on imo..

But I guess that’s the thing, Diédhiou is Diédhiou, he was signed because of the player is, he’s not a Patrick Bamford..... he does what he does & for him to be labelled as not trying enough or not putting in enough effort is mind boggling imo!

If people want a striker to run around flat out all day long then it’s unlikely you’ll get the physicality that Diédhiou brings to the team. I don’t know of any 6ft plus striker that is running around all game, similarly, I don’t know of any 5ft8” striker that is expected to stand up front & bring hoofs upfield under control from out of the sky! And any of those types of players that can do that aren’t plying their trade in the Championship!

Peter Crouch wasn’t expected to run around defending from open play & Michael Owen wasn’t expected to go head to head with Rio Ferdinand for balls pumped up field at 7ft high.

Diedhiou is trying, it’s not his fault if he’s not getting any support or that any support is taking too long to get to him. We very much play as 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 when we don’t have the ball & that one up top is constantly isolated, be it Diédhiou or Afobe & going back to the original post that suggests Semenyo should be playing the role ahead of Diédhiou (when Afobe isn’t available) is more than a little absurd because Semenyo is nowhere near ready to lead the line imo.

That’s not to say that he couldn’t in the future but now isn’t the time to try him out, when points are on the line, imo.

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

While I appear to be coating the player off as a bad player and I do not think he is this is my observation of his receiving skills. In the timescale the player he has been at Bristol City he could/should have improved. His body is frequently in the wrong position due to his footwork. He frequently attempts to receive the ball with his feet splayed, crossing and is off balance.

Receiving the ball is a continuum. Llook, position, communicate, receive, release and repeat - That is the most successful means of receiving and releasing.

Farama looks at the opposition too frequently seeking to engage them rather than position himself to receive the ball and communicate with eyes and body with team mates. e.g. backing in to players looking for contact instead of using an arm length and hand to keep side on and receive the ball on his safe side. Famara's continuum can be to look at his opponent communicate with the opposition through physicality while attempting to position himself to receive the ball, its different to the above. 

Afobe is looking to play in front of defenders … 

 

 

Can this be contrasted to Massengo's positioning and shape as he receives balls? I know we've not seen as much of him but he seems to often position himself so that he receives the ball to the side of an opponent, so allowing him to spin around them and into the space they do not occupy. Massengo rarely (occasionally) ends up backing into opponents as he receives. Just my observation, and it may be wrong but perhaps with this particular skill Fam could learn from Massengo as much as from Adobe?

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