Dollymarie Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: That is a good point- career-threatening I don't know- but I certainly wonder whether they would've been leant on to "miss" the actions etc... Risk of career being stalled perhaps. Avon and Somerset backed them because they were so strong in their views that what went on that day was wrong and they believed and supported them. A&S were happy for them to go all the way to court if needed because of the events that occurred. WMP not so much for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Well done to those that drove this 27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: That is a good point- career-threatening I don't know- but I certainly wonder whether they would've been leant on to "miss" the actions etc... Risk of career being stalled perhaps. What would have been the alternative of course Mr P, ie in telling lies , would have, if exposed been at best Embarrassing and a serious question of integrity and at worse being convicted for perverting the course of justice So Heroic for telling the truth - uhmmmmmmm No 14 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: Avon and Somerset backed them because they were so strong in their views that what went on that day was wrong and they believed and supported them. A&S were happy for them to go all the way to court if needed because of the events that occurred. WMP not so much for obvious reasons. So you are stating Avon & Somerset Police , as an organisation , backed the supporters ? Really ? A link or some evidence of this would be great , and I’d be astounded if that was the case The Force / Organisation ? or one particular officer telling he truth as Blagdon & Co have suggested ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: So you are stating Avon & Somerset Police , as an organisation , backed the supporters ? Really ? A link or some evidence of this would be great , and I’d be astounded if that was the case The Force / Organisation ? or one particular officer telling he truth as Blagdon & Co have suggested ? One officer who was in Birmingham on duty that day gave a statement backing the 10, they work for Avon and Somerset who supported the officers actions and were happy for the officer to go all the way to court if needed. I meant they supported their officer in their belief that WMP were wrong in what they did that day. Hope that clarifies what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Dollymarie said: One officer gave a statement backing the 10, they work for Avon and Somerset who supported the officers actions and were happy for the officer to go all the way to court if needed. I meant they supported their officer in their belief that WMP were wrong in what they did that day. Hope that clarifies what I meant. Yes , so one officer Avon & Somerset have absolutely zero say in whether that officer or any officer appears in a court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes , so one officer Avon & Somerset have absolutely zero say in whether that officer or any officer appears in a court But they could, presumably, have shown solidarity with WMP and not supported their own officer. Be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes , so one officer Avon & Somerset have absolutely zero say in whether that officer or any officer appears in a court Yes, and that’s what I meant when I said what I said in the first post of mine that you quoted, “A&S backed them,” meaning the officer, not the 10 fans. Hope that clears things up. WMP would have preferred us not to have a serving officer on our side of the court case, and I actually feel that their evidence, given they were independent of any of the 10 fans, was pretty crucial in helping them win the court case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Leveller said: But they could, presumably, have shown solidarity with WMP and not supported their own officer. Be fair. What do you mean ‘not supported’ ? He or she are clearly a witness and as a Police Officer has made a statement which I assume to be the truth Thats actually their job and requirement ......... This is actual Law and procedure , and integrity , nothing to do with taking sides or ‘support’ ? How did they ‘support’ him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevedon Red Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, knewtropics said: Brilliant, hopefully it makes national news Henry Winter tweeting about it so yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Wonder what a certain poster thinks of it this morning given their stance for the last year or so about it... Hi @1bristolcity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Wonder what a certain poster thinks of it this morning given their stance for the last year or so about it... Hi @1bristolcity I’d say it was a bit more than a ‘stance’ Mr P Some Of the posts on the subject were beauts @1bristolcity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderCraig Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Gazred said: A hard earned and well deserved 1-0. Power to the people Fair to say Big Fam wasn't representing them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: What do you mean ‘not supported’ ? He or she are clearly a witness and as a Police Officer has made a statement which I assume to be the truth Thats actually their job and requirement ......... This is actual Law and procedure , and integrity , nothing to do with taking sides or ‘support’ ? How did they ‘support’ him ? Are you naive? Usually coppers, stick by eachother. Even when they know they are in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Riaz said: Are you naive? Usually coppers, stick by eachother. Even when they know they are in the wrong. completely clueless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galway Red Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: completely clueless Clueless or not, he is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galway Red Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Would be interesting to know what the settlement was or would it have been worth having your day in court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, Riaz said: Are you naive? Usually coppers, stick by eachother. Even when they know they are in the wrong. There’s a great deal of rivalry between different police forces. They regularly try to outdo each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I’d say it was a bit more than a ‘stance’ Mr P Some Of the posts on the subject were beauts @1bristolcity ? That poster was very outspoken on the subject indeed BBSB. Very Outspoken...and very wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Well done to all involved. Incredible to think that a number of these supporters were sat in a pub, engaging in friendly conversation with Birmingham fans whom they knew from England trips abroad, no trouble was likely, and yet the WMP accused them of being hooligans and a risk!! Truly unbelievable and I’m happy for those 10 that got a result. However, another 40 or so didn’t take the case forward due to potential costs if they lost, so a thought to those guys too. But massive well done for the perseverance of the 10 and the SCT support. Big win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Sending my biggest congratulations... from Birmingham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Dollymarie said: Pretty sure he retired shortly after the events, so nothing sadly. Funny how they always seem to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Robin1988 said: Funny how they always seem to do that. Without expanding the scope into policing in general, from what I've read a common occurrence when under IPCC investigation- well dunno if it was trick, loophole or the exact category but under IPCC investigation it would not be uncommon for a police officer to resign or retire. Think that has been tightened up now so an Investigation that is ongoing can continue regardless but doubtless @Fordy62 or @JulieH can clarify on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Without expanding the scope into policing in general, from what I've read a common trick when under IPCC investigation- well dunno if it was trick, loophole or the exact category but under IPCC investigation it would not be uncommon for a police officer to resign or retire. Think that has been tightened up now so an Investigation that is ongoing can continue regardless but doubtless @Fordy62 or @JulieH can clarify on this. I am not completely aware of the exact ruling but I think that a rule has been brought in that if an officer was under ipcc investigation they would not be allowed to retire/ resign until the investigation was complete. I will need to check on that but I am sure that was going to be brought in if not already. as I understand it there was no ipcc investigation into this incident . I stand to be corrected as I wouldn’t necessarily be told , but the ipcc normally publicise an investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, JulieH said: I am not completely aware of the exact ruling but I think that a rule has been brought in that if an officer was under ipcc investigation they would not be allowed to retire/ resign until the investigation was complete. I will need to check on that but I am sure that was going to be brought in if not already. as I understand it there was no ipcc investigation into this incident . I stand to be corrected as I wouldn’t necessarily be told , but the ipcc normally publicise an investigation. IPCC I thought had been upgraded to/replaced by the IoPC- but that wasn't clear in my initial post so yeah. That loophole is ridiculous or was in any case- retire fair enough makes sense but resign surely means they can rejoin again not so long after with a cleanish slate? Think a referral may have been in order for this personally, but these things don't come cheap I guess. Or deemed to be insufficiently serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 What does this mean though? Compo for the people that were going to go to court? What have the police actually backed down from, what is the final outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, JulieH said: I am not completely aware of the exact ruling but I think that a rule has been brought in that if an officer was under ipcc investigation they would not be allowed to retire/ resign until the investigation was complete. I will need to check on that but I am sure that was going to be brought in if not already. as I understand it there was no ipcc investigation into this incident . I stand to be corrected as I wouldn’t necessarily be told , but the ipcc normally publicise an investigation. As a witness I had two police inspectors interview me about the antics of the WMP. One had a scouse accent and the other a Yorkshire accent. I assumed they were from IPCC ......was that the wrong assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: As a witness I had two police inspectors interview me about the antics of the WMP. One had a scouse accent and the other a Yorkshire accent. I assumed they were from IPCC ......was that the wrong assumption? My understanding is that the witness statements were taken by officers/ support staff from the wmp legal department . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: What does this mean though? Compo for the people that were going to go to court? What have the police actually backed down from, what is the final outcome? Yes compensation for the 10 that we’re taking them to court in an out of court settlement. Stu may be able to add more as to any comment offered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, JulieH said: My understanding is that the witness statements were taken by officers/ support staff from the wmp legal department . I’m surprised that the WMP (or any police force) are allowed to collect statements for for an investigation into themselves - surely that’s open to a lack of transparency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Robbored said: I’m surprised that the WMP (or any police force) are allowed to collect statements for for an investigation into themselves - surely that’s open to a lack of transparency? It’s what happens with things that aren’t referred to Iopc, they tend to deal with the more serious stuff, assaults/ criminal offences etc and leave the rest to the local force to deal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatcham red Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Yes, compensation for those involved, plus having spoken with them, the complete vindication that they had done nothing wrong. For the record, WMP will not formally admit liability and, therefore, apologise. They didn't fancy a court case, which would have been public, risky and expensive. This was not without financial risk for the claimants either, even with the Club & Trust backing, so the same applies to them. Having been made an offer, there is no guarantee they would have secured a ruling had they pressed ahead with a court case. The reason the Supporters Club & Trust got involved was to help right the wrong for the claimants, but also try to bring about a change in the way police forces (especially WMP) use these powers in the future. From speaking with Avon & Somerset Police and the FSA, our view is that policing and the use of these powers is changing for the better. To quote Amanda Jacks: "It should also be acknowledged that WMP have totally shifted their approach to football policing in recent years and were the first police force in the country to have a Football Policing Independent Advisory Group comprised of supporter reps from clubs across their region." It may not be down to just this incident, however, we believe it played a part. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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