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4 hours ago, soultrader said:

OK .

 

Yes and their were people who posted he was a risk because he did not know the culture etc.

 

I'm not sure of the point being made?

 

 

Is what Ive said factually incorrect?

Have I offended you in some way?

I thought he was a risk for the plumbing in the showers . 

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30 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

They weren't flogged "as soon as possible".

They were sold when a couple of exceptional offers came in.

 

If we were just flogging them then Webster would have gone for about half of what he actually did, based on the reported opening offers. It literally took a bid that was too good to refuse for us to sell them.

The fact is that Webster came to us with a sketchy injury record, played a full season, and we cashed in after 1 year means we pretty much sold him as quick as we could, a january bid was unlikely given his history of injuries but in this summer window it was just a matter of time before we sold him on.

kelly got more games, got england under 21 call ups, then we sold him immediately at the start of the transfer window, if we had turned down bournemouth who is to say whether someone else might have come in later offering 20 million, like what happened with Webster?

hey the club should be accepting the best offer, but lets not be under any misunderstanding about what will happen to massengo if an acceptable bid comes in january for him, regardless of trying to build a squad for promotion etc etc. We have the money, but arguably our defence is weaker than if webster and kelly had stayed, which in most cases would mean we have to make up in the weakening of our defence in other areas.

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2 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The fact is that Webster came to us with a sketchy injury record, played a full season, and we cashed in after 1 year means we pretty much sold him as quick as we could, a january bid was unlikely given his history of injuries but in this summer window it was just a matter of time before we sold him on.

kelly got more games, got england under 21 call ups, then we sold him immediately at the start of the transfer window, if we had turned down bournemouth who is to say whether someone else might have come in later offering 20 million, like what happened with Webster?

hey the club should be accepting the best offer, but lets not be under any misunderstanding about what will happen to massengo if an acceptable bid comes in january for him, regardless of trying to build a squad for promotion etc etc. We have the money, but arguably our defence is weaker than if webster and kelly had stayed, which in most cases would mean we have to make up in the weakening of our defence in other areas.

The fact is the initial bid for Webster was around half of what we actually sold him for.

So we did not just flog at the earliest chance.

 

It's been pretty well documented that Bournemouth made their move early because bigger clubs were looking, but nothing to suggest a higher price would have been bid.

Edited by JamesBCFC

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12 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The fact is that Webster came to us with a sketchy injury record, played a full season, and we cashed in after 1 year means we pretty much sold him as quick as we could, a january bid was unlikely given his history of injuries but in this summer window it was just a matter of time before we sold him on.

kelly got more games, got england under 21 call ups, then we sold him immediately at the start of the transfer window, if we had turned down bournemouth who is to say whether someone else might have come in later offering 20 million, like what happened with Webster?

hey the club should be accepting the best offer, but lets not be under any misunderstanding about what will happen to massengo if an acceptable bid comes in january for him, regardless of trying to build a squad for promotion etc etc. We have the money, but arguably our defence is weaker than if webster and kelly had stayed, which in most cases would mean we have to make up in the weakening of our defence in other areas.

I'm with @JamesBCFC on this one. We set a high price for Webster because we didn't want to sell and relatively stood our ground until it was right. We may have wanted to "cash in" but only at the right price. I highly doubt there was just one bid for Webster and we accepted, if that was the case then i'd agree. 

A similar situation I could see happening to Messengo 

Edited by Sturny

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28 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The fact is that Webster came to us with a sketchy injury record, played a full season, and we cashed in after 1 year means we pretty much sold him as quick as we could, a january bid was unlikely given his history of injuries but in this summer window it was just a matter of time before we sold him on.

kelly got more games, got england under 21 call ups, then we sold him immediately at the start of the transfer window, if we had turned down bournemouth who is to say whether someone else might have come in later offering 20 million, like what happened with Webster?

hey the club should be accepting the best offer, but lets not be under any misunderstanding about what will happen to massengo if an acceptable bid comes in january for him, regardless of trying to build a squad for promotion etc etc. We have the money, but arguably our defence is weaker than if webster and kelly had stayed, which in most cases would mean we have to make up in the weakening of our defence in other areas.

Tactical sale early on (MA eluded to this), to bring in funds to gain an advantage in the transfer window...especially with so many clubs hamstrung financial, including some under embargo.  On the flip-side I think Bournemouth keen to do early before a bigger club came in too. 

It meant we could propose deals to Dasilva, Kalas and Palmer, even if they wouldn’t commit there and then.  The £15m from Kelly meant we could make opening gambits....whilst knowing we could back it up.  Other clubs would’ve been dependent on selling first....we’d done ours!

I now suspect Webster interest was there all summer, but official bids or at least bids out there in the media seen later on.

From my calculations we haven’t much left in the kitty for January, unless we trade.

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42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From my calculations we haven’t much left in the kitty for January, unless we trade.

What do you make it, in and out, then?

With much of our business undisclosed, I would be interested to know rough figures each way.

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4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

I would humbly suggest you have misunderstood the intention of my post.

I'm not sure of the relevance of mentioning 'posters on the matchday thread' ?   As generally I don't comment on these, so I'm not sure why the actions of other people is pertinent to any point I have attempted to make?

 

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16 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

What do you make it, in and out, then?

With much of our business undisclosed, I would be interested to know rough figures each way.

6FFD7C4F-0818-411B-BC2F-BB962D4357E0.thumb.jpeg.ef51843b90f6343481ccc34ed2b0e040.jpeg

As you say all stuff pretty much undisclosed, but caveated by stuff in media and the likes of Kid On The Riot...and my previous estimates haven’t been a million miles away when previous years accounts have been produced either.  Always happy to be challenged on any of them, e.g. Bentley £4m or £2m rumoured...so I’ve plumped for £3m.

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1 hour ago, soultrader said:

I would humbly suggest you have misunderstood the intention of my post.

I'm not sure of the relevance of mentioning 'posters on the matchday thread' ?   As generally I don't comment on these, so I'm not sure why the actions of other people is pertinent to any point I have attempted to make?

 

I’m not going to keep posting on this subject

The intention of your original post is clear , and akin to the comments I related to in the Matchday thread , as an example 

You have claimed something, twice,  (using capital letters to I presume emphasise your jibe ) that’s simply isn’t correct 

If you can show me where these people/ posters thought Massengo was a ‘Massive Risk’ it would be helpful 

 

 

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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m not going to keep posting on this subject

The intention of your original post is clear , and akin to the comments I related to in the Matchday thread , as an example 

You have claimed something, twice,  (using capital letters to I presume emphasise your jibe ) that’s simply isn’t correct 

If you can show me where these people/ posters thought Massengo was a ‘Massive Risk’ it would be helpful 

 

 

As I said I fear your presumptions are incorrect.

But as you do not appear interested in seeking an alternative explanation.  I'm unsure I can help

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Posters said Massengo was a risk, or words to that affect, when the fee was incorrectly told as £7m.  We now know it only builds to that so the transfer is low risk 

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11 hours ago, RedDave said:

Posters said Massengo was a risk, or words to that affect, when the fee was incorrectly told as £7m.  We now know it only builds to that so the transfer is low risk 

From L’Equipe ;

’ 

 
Le jeune milieu monégasque Han-Noah Massengo (18 ans) poursuivra sa carrière à Bristol City (D2 anglaise). Selon différentes sources proches du dossier, son transfert est estimé à 8 M€, auxquels s'ajoutent différents bonus et 20% du montant de la revente.’
 
From différent sources close to the deal , his transfer is estimated at € 8 million to which you have to add different bonuses and 20% of the total sell on fee. 
 
Monaco must have leaked the deal because all the French press and media quoted practically, word for word , what is written above concerning the details of the deal. 
 
We will probably never know but either way Massengo was the jewel of their academy and they would not have sold him cheaply or wished the fans to think that they had . 
Edited by Major Isewater

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12 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

From L’Equipe ;

’ 

 
Le jeune milieu monégasque Han-Noah Massengo (18 ans) poursuivra sa carrière à Bristol City (D2 anglaise). Selon différentes sources proches du dossier, son transfert est estimé à 8 M€, auxquels s'ajoutent différents bonus et 20% du montant de la revente.’
 
From différent sources close to the deal , his transfer is estimated at € 8 million to which you have to add different bonuses and 20% of the total sell on fee. 
 
Monaco must have leaked the deal because all the French press and media quoted practically, word for word , what is written above concerning the details of the deal. 
 
We will probably never know but either way Massengo was the jewel of their academy and they would not have sold him cheaply or wished the fans to think that they had . 

But we still believe the €8m to be including performance add-ons (as opposed to sell-on add-on).

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Could our success (thus far) with Massengo lead to more French (or maybe Belgian or Dutch) starlets following the same pathway?

And would thus be a positive development or would it just stifle the development of local talent?

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9 minutes ago, mozo said:

Could our success (thus far) with Massengo lead to more French (or maybe Belgian or Dutch) starlets following the same pathway?

And would thus be a positive development or would it just stifle the development of local talent?

If the local talent is playing international football and is good enough then the club won’t spend money unnecessarily to bring in a foreign starlet .

It can only be good for the players at the club to have exceptional talent to play with and learn from .

 

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44 minutes ago, mozo said:

I thought he was the star man again today. 

Really?

I thought he was overran, outmuscled and out thought. He struggled to keep hold of the ball when he had it and was bullied off getting it back on a few occasions. 
 

His worst performance for us by far

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10 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Really?

I thought he was overran, outmuscled and out thought. He struggled to keep hold of the ball when he had it and was bullied off getting it back on a few occasions. 
 

His worst performance for us by far

What he lacked was back up . When he won balls due to his tenacity there was rarely a team mate to take advantage.

 

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22 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What he lacked was back up . When he won balls due to his tenacity there was rarely a team mate to take advantage.

 

Even despite that, he seemed to lack the boundless energy that he’s shown. 

In addition to that he just didn’t seem to have a role yesterday, he wasn’t playing a a a ball winning midfielder, or a box to box midfielder, or a playmaker. He needs to have a defined role which he just didn’t have

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13 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Even despite that, he seemed to lack the boundless energy that he’s shown. 

In addition to that he just didn’t seem to have a role yesterday, he wasn’t playing a a a ball winning midfielder, or a box to box midfielder, or a playmaker. He needs to have a defined role which he just didn’t have

Why should a player be restricted by what his ‘job title’ is? He’s a midfielder & should be able to perform all those roles if he’s capable of doing so.

To say he’s only in the team to do a specific role would restrict his influence on games. I didn’t get to see yesterday’s game but I’d suggest that he’s maybe allowed an off game in 10 at 18 years old in his first real taste of men’s professional football.

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7 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Why should a player be restricted by what his ‘job title’ is? He’s a midfielder & should be able to perform all those roles if he’s capable of doing so.

To say he’s only in the team to do a specific role would restrict his influence on games. I didn’t get to see yesterday’s game but I’d suggest that he’s maybe allowed an off game in 10 at 18 years old in his first real taste of men’s professional football.

I totally agree he’s allowed an off day, and yesterday was certainly that. 
 

However, I think he does need a specific role in the team, one that allows him to play to his strengths

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29 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Even despite that, he seemed to lack the boundless energy that he’s shown. 

In addition to that he just didn’t seem to have a role yesterday, he wasn’t playing a a a ball winning midfielder, or a box to box midfielder, or a playmaker. He needs to have a defined role which he just didn’t have

He tidied up the midfield, hassled the opponents, broke up play and kept the ball moving .

That is his role and he does it very well. However he can’t do it all on his own and yesterday he was let down by his teammates.

 

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1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

He tidied up the midfield, hassled the opponents, broke up play and kept the ball moving .

That is his role and he does it very well. However he can’t do it all on his own and yesterday he was let down by his teammates.

 

Did he do that though? 
 

Really, he was bullied yesterday, he rarely got the chance to properly hassle or tidy up the midfield as he was up against players who were too physically strong for him. That’s no bad on his part as he’s only 18 but it shows he still has plenty to learn. Yesterday was a big learning curve for him imo

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5 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I totally agree he’s allowed an off day, and yesterday was certainly that. 
 

However, I think he does need a specific role in the team, one that allows him to play to his strengths

As a counter, I’d suggest that Marlon Pack was given a specific role while here & that enabled him to stand in front of the back four & do very little offensive work for the team & that would leave the other central midfielder (Brownhill or Smith) having to do the work of two men & that left us often being overrun in midfield.

Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill & Smith are all adept with going box to box while doing their defensive work & influencing things going forward & since having let Pack leave our midfield has been a lot more energetic, maybe our injuries & only really having two options (Brownhill & Massengo) for the last month or so has caught up with us? In an ideal world Massengo probably wouldn’t of played as much as he has & we would of been able to freshen things up a bit more but circumstances are as they are & hopefully we will start to see the injured players coming back & us given a chance to take the strain off of some of the players?

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I actually thought he was one of our best players yesterday although he seemed to be playing further forward than usual, he had some passes which went astray in the attacking half but was sound as ever when in his defensive role. I reckon LJ is experimenting with his role and it might take a bit of time to fine tune, he's only just turned 18 after all and is learning all the time.

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5 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Did he do that though? 
 

Really, he was bullied yesterday, he rarely got the chance to properly hassle or tidy up the midfield as he was up against players who were too physically strong for him. That’s no bad on his part as he’s only 18 but it shows he still has plenty to learn. Yesterday was a big learning curve for him imo

I need to watch it again because I just remember frequently thinking 'more tidy work from Massengo'

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8 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Even despite that, he seemed to lack the boundless energy that he’s shown. 

In addition to that he just didn’t seem to have a role yesterday, he wasn’t playing a a a ball winning midfielder, or a box to box midfielder, or a playmaker. He needs to have a defined role which he just didn’t have

Watching on Robinstv yesterday I thought it seemed more 5122 at times, rather than 5212, and that Massengo played more in advance of Brownhill rather than more alongside him.  Whether that impacted his performance or not I don’t know.

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Watching on Robinstv yesterday I thought it seemed more 5122 at times, rather than 5212, and that Massengo played more in advance of Brownhill rather than more alongside him.  Whether that impacted his performance or not I don’t know.

Got any stats on him at all?

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34 minutes ago, mozo said:

Got any stats on him at all?

51468600-F865-4F07-8034-345C4D25099A.thumb.jpeg.eac80dfe81dc7fb1b8a45e88b9adabbe.jpeg2F6A66CD-711D-4832-B44B-B53374AAE8A5.thumb.jpeg.274d1658e094ca8c1aef7ddee34c3d03.jpeg
 

For me it wasn’t what he did with the ball, which was perfectly okay (not brill, not crap either)...it was how Luton found holes, gaps , space, and the ability to run past us - not just the midfield either.  The centre of the pitch that we usually condense well, was open yesterday.

Edited by Davefevs

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

51468600-F865-4F07-8034-345C4D25099A.thumb.jpeg.eac80dfe81dc7fb1b8a45e88b9adabbe.jpeg2F6A66CD-711D-4832-B44B-B53374AAE8A5.thumb.jpeg.274d1658e094ca8c1aef7ddee34c3d03.jpeg
 

For me it wasn’t what he did with the ball, which was perfectly okay (not brill, not crap either)...it was how Luton found holes, gaps , space, and the ability to run past us - not just the midfield either.  The centre of the pitch that we usually condense well, was open yesterday.

Legend, thank you. 

Like I say, I need to see it again (shudder), but unconvinced to doubt my first impressions based the stats.

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I think like all 18 year olds. They run on boundless energy, until they drop. You would normally look to nurture them, and save their batteries.

Massengo has been wonderful; but the last couple of games he has looked as if he needs a rest. Who to bring in though?

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13 minutes ago, mozo said:

Legend, thank you. 

Like I say, I need to see it again (shudder), but unconvinced to doubt my first impressions based the stats.

Individually quite a lot of our players were fine....but we didn’t play as a team yesterday.

Moore and Bentley were the pick for me.  

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17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Individually quite a lot of our players were fine....but we didn’t play as a team yesterday.

Moore and Bentley were the pick for me.  

Moore and Bentley have been impressive all season so far.

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22 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

He tidied up the midfield, hassled the opponents, broke up play and kept the ball moving .

That is his role and he does it very well. However he can’t do it all on his own and yesterday he was let down by his teammates.

 

22 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Did he do that though? 

Really, he was bullied yesterday, he rarely got the chance to properly hassle or tidy up the midfield as he was up against players who were too physically strong for him. That’s no bad on his part as he’s only 18 but it shows he still has plenty to learn. Yesterday was a big learning curve for him imo.

Think you both make valid points, probably was his weakest performance so far. However same could be said about several of his much more experienced team mates, who are the ones that should be stepping up when it gets tough... Brownhill, Weimann & Palmer all put in their worst display's of the season. 

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