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Major Isewater

Bravo McGregor and Piercy - Post analysis

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3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

He signed them though , so he’s created the problem. As I’ve said before. He must have a system and style he’d prefer to play. Play it and recruit players to suit. He complicates everything. 

I personally don't think it's as simple as that. He's signed and developed very good players, that have then been sold on. If we'd been able to keep them, we'd, imo, been in a stronger position.

We've recruited weakly in replacing them.

Look at all the established Clubs in this division...the Boro, Derby, Readings etc...full of strong players that are between Championship and lower Prem level. We've slowly crept into that position. Something I've worried about for a while. We've fallen into the trap of signing those types of players that are in between the two leagues. Those players know their level...they aren't going to die trying to get to the Prem. They are content going through the motions collecting a very, very good wage.

When I see the likes of Kalas flaunting his wealth, missus, trainers, car etc...I despair. Happy to play and take, but no way are they going to run through brick walls to get to the higher level....they know their limits. I'd say a good majority of our side fall into that category now. And you end up into mid table obscurity.

The reasoning...young hungry talented but inexperienced players aren't going to get you over the line. Answer...sign those that are. Result...like any other team in this league that's done the same.

We've made a massive error imo.

We've now become like any other team...and you can go through managers and players...it's not going to make the slightest difference imo.

Welcome to becoming the next QPR etc

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Good post @spudski.  Slightly different point, but you sparked it.

Have we reached our peak and are about to go downwards.  The expectation, desire is that the play-offs are our destiny, continued progress, etc etc.

But I see signs of a squad being built that is gonna financially drain us, like SOD was left with and we are back to 12/13 and early 13/14 again.  The good players moved on for good money, until there are none left, and a squad left of high earners, with little motivation, and certainly little sell-on value.

If our coaching is good enough, perhaps we should’ve been able to continue taking the best young players with the motivation to succeed, just adjust the level of young player as we progressed.  Far too simplistic (and probably over-egged) I know, but I fear LJ could leave us in a big mess.  It’s a bit out of control.  Need to rebaseline in the summer before it goes too far.

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post @spudski.  Slightly different point, but you sparked it.

Have we reached our peak and are about to go downwards.  The expectation, desire is that the play-offs are our destiny, continued progress, etc etc.

But I see signs of a squad being built that is gonna financially drain us, like SOD was left with and we are back to 12/13 and early 13/14 again.  The good players moved on for good money, until there are none left, and a squad left of high earners, with little motivation, and certainly little sell-on value.

If our coaching is good enough, perhaps we should’ve been able to continue taking the best young players with the motivation to succeed, just adjust the level of young player as we progressed.  Far too simplistic (and probably over-egged) I know, but I fear LJ could leave us in a big mess.  It’s a bit out of control.  Need to rebaseline in the summer before it goes too far.

I don't know about this I don't want to be thinking ahead to next season but there is a a lot that could be good. Let's take the coach out of the equation for this point (just assume its whoever you want it to be! 😂) - if we can sell Eliasson for a decent amount  (definitely not impossible) and keep most of the other players + grab Afobe we will have a great squad - I'd particularly be excited by the young players we would have coming back - Moore, Walsh, Morrell in particular but also a few others doing really well Smith for example. We also have O'Leary back after a great season. We have a lot of players who you would hope would be able to step up into the 1st team or at least compete for a place.

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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post @spudski.  Slightly different point, but you sparked it.

Have we reached our peak and are about to go downwards.  The expectation, desire is that the play-offs are our destiny, continued progress, etc etc.

But I see signs of a squad being built that is gonna financially drain us, like SOD was left with and we are back to 12/13 and early 13/14 again.  The good players moved on for good money, until there are none left, and a squad left of high earners, with little motivation, and certainly little sell-on value.

If our coaching is good enough, perhaps we should’ve been able to continue taking the best young players with the motivation to succeed, just adjust the level of young player as we progressed.  Far too simplistic (and probably over-egged) I know, but I fear LJ could leave us in a big mess.  It’s a bit out of control.  Need to rebaseline in the summer before it goes too far.

I've always said under our system we are two step forward, one step back.

This season climaxed in a position of positivity with FFP,  but started with selling Webster and having injuries to key players.

It imo, was the season triggered to make our move. The stars aligned so to speak.

We got to within the play offs playing poor football and riding our luck.

We've brought in three players that are considered improvements on our weaknesses to get us in the play offs 

Two of which on paper, should, but in reality aren't. Way off top 6 level.

Wells and Afobe with Palmer behind at the beginning of the season...yes. Right now...with Famara and a miss firing midfield...no way.

We are now completely muddled after the January transfer window.

I look at our squad now, the timing of the signings, the experience, the playing time, age and experience and it's the most muddled I've ever seen.

We've literally ticked boxes...on paper, rather than on the pitch.

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11 hours ago, maxjak said:

OK LJ has been unlucky with injuries and players being transferred.........but plenty of other sides have to contend with siimilar problems.  Ultimately this is a mess of LJ's own making, with a lack of a system of play, when despite injuries players could be brought in to maintain the same formation, if as he stated he has two players for each position.  I really don't have a lot of sympathy for LJ, he has had 4 years and numerous transfer windows, and he still does not know his best formation or team.  He constantly refers to identity, but I have absolutely no idea what our's is?  We play mundane dull football, and are one of the least exciting teams in the league to watch, which would be acceptable if results were forthcoming?  I believe he has done a good job getting us to where we are, but a new impetus is needed, with fresh ideas and input, we have become stale, and I believe come the summer a new management team is required to move us forward.

Pretty much agree with all you say , I have watched this club for a long time now , quite a few promotions and seasons where we had exciting seasons ending in near misses, we would all be analysing  the fixtures , working out the points we might get , the points the other teams would drop , the excitement of the crunch games coming up , nail biting moments.

I cannot be the only one that has felt none of that in the last few months , the largely turgid football even when we get the results has meant there has been no belief that we were going all the way , I think the Gregor piece really sums it up , just don’t think this will change with LJ in charge 

Edited by Cov 77
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2 hours ago, Cov 77 said:

Pretty much agree with all you say , I have watched this club for a long time now , quite a few promotions and seasons where we had exciting seasons ending in near misses, we would all be analysing  the fixtures , working out the points we might get , the points the other teams would drop , the excitement of the crunch games coming up , nail biting moments.

I cannot be the only one that has felt none of that in the last few months , the largely turgid football even when we get the results has meant there has been no belief that we were going all the way , I think the Gregor piece really sums it up , just don’t think this will change with LJ in charge 

Completely with you there.  

The Johnson apologists keep banging on about us being in 7th and only X points of 6th and I left stone cold.  

I honestly reckon I’ve got more chance of sprouting a spare head than seeing this lot forcing their way into a top 6 finish, so am not getting even the remotest feeling of excitement and just want the season to end now and get it over with.

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Can’t say that I agree with the article, it overlooks the basic fact that this so-called talented squad is unbalanced, and in football, it’s about how the team plays as a unit. The midfield is horribly lightweight, limiting attacking opportunities and offering little cover to the defence. And how can Wells and Fam be certain starters? We had more success playing just one up front, which would have to be Fan based on form and his defensive qualities. 
Who knows, we may muddle through to the play offs, but the issues are far from as simplistic as this piece suggests.

Just picking up on an earlier comment, I would not rush to sign Afobe, see if there are better options, in terms of value and age. We have done well developing younger players, signing older players on large contracts is not the way forward.

Edited by Chappers

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The article talks about setting up different against a physical team like Millwall to a slick team like Brentford... I totally understand this when playing away, but when at home playing teams that are around us in terms of league position why on earth do we give them the respect that we need to change our team so we can try and counteract their style?

Johnson bangs on about bloody identity when we clearly dont have one. teams should be coming to Ashton Gate and changing their formations to try and stop us playing our game but the problem is.. We dont have a game to play. Its a basic thing you are taught when playing as a kid that a team plays to its strengths, you dont try and play to another teams weaknesses unless they are much better than you.

This just makes me feel that Johnson doesn't believe in his own "identity" for the team. 2 years ago in the Bobby Reid season it didn't matter who we played whether it was Burton Albion or Manchester City we had a game plan and stuck to it. Johnson has spent 3 quarters of this season try to work out a formation and a game plan when this should have been done in the summer.

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14 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

Decent read. Reinforces what many on here have said and provides stats to support the facts and as LJ is fond of stats he will know them already.

What particularly intrigued me was the timing of the piece, tbh it could have appeared anytime in the last few weeks. So does it maybe suggest that the largely benign and loyal EP is falling out of love with a LJ? 

 

Gregor must have stayed up in Huddersfield as the morning after he did a live blog chat thing on Facebook I think. I don’t know if this was usual from him as I don’t normally follow these type of things but I was with my daughter who does. I only caught part of it but it seemed he was raising many of the same points, certainly a ‘where do we go from here’ type piece.

It does seem a turning point of some sort, but any jurno worth his salt would know after that performance there would be a lot of interest from City fans and a good time to get some clicks or sell a few papers even.

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Not sure why anyone thinks McGregor,s article states anything anyone who reads the forum wouldn’t know already.Every stat could have been provided by Davefevs and everything written could have been copy and pasted from here over the last couple of months/ seasons.

     Comes back to the Bristol Posts favourite line “everything we know” , which as we all know is absolutely sod all unless it’s been nicked from elsewhere online.

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20 hours ago, Kykoliko said:

Adding additional firepower from one of the Championship most in-form marksmen showed the club meant business, could lighten the load and pressure on Diedhiou and Andi Weimann and give City an additional threat following Benik Afobe's unfortunate issue.

What a curious turn of phrase; I wonder what he is referring to - his injury (unfortunate granted but hardly an issue) or the death of his daughter (a family tragedy and if so describing it as an unfortunate issue is frankly appalling) 

However. It does nail a lot of what has been talked about for several years and fair play for so doing. 

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The big stand out comments for me in that article is we have so far had captains so far this season. We need a Jon Terry / Shawn Taylor type captain, who is not afraid to  go up to his team mates get them my the throat and tell them what he wants from them.So who in our present team could play that role?

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14 hours ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think it's as simple as that. He's signed and developed very good players, that have then been sold on. If we'd been able to keep them, we'd, imo, been in a stronger position.

We've recruited weakly in replacing them.

Look at all the established Clubs in this division...the Boro, Derby, Readings etc...full of strong players that are between Championship and lower Prem level. We've slowly crept into that position. Something I've worried about for a while. We've fallen into the trap of signing those types of players that are in between the two leagues. Those players know their level...they aren't going to die trying to get to the Prem. They are content going through the motions collecting a very, very good wage.

When I see the likes of Kalas flaunting his wealth, missus, trainers, car etc...I despair. Happy to play and take, but no way are they going to run through brick walls to get to the higher level....they know their limits. I'd say a good majority of our side fall into that category now. And you end up into mid table obscurity.

The reasoning...young hungry talented but inexperienced players aren't going to get you over the line. Answer...sign those that are. Result...like any other team in this league that's done the same.

We've made a massive error imo.

We've now become like any other team...and you can go through managers and players...it's not going to make the slightest difference imo.

Welcome to becoming the next QPR etc

 

Interesting point and food for thought. Thanks for posting.

 

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Good post @spudski.  Slightly different point, but you sparked it.

Have we reached our peak and are about to go downwards.  The expectation, desire is that the play-offs are our destiny, continued progress, etc etc.

But I see signs of a squad being built that is gonna financially drain us, like SOD was left with and we are back to 12/13 and early 13/14 again.  The good players moved on for good money, until there are none left, and a squad left of high earners, with little motivation, and certainly little sell-on value.

If our coaching is good enough, perhaps we should’ve been able to continue taking the best young players with the motivation to succeed, just adjust the level of young player as we progressed.  Far too simplistic (and probably over-egged) I know, but I fear LJ could leave us in a big mess.  It’s a bit out of control.  Need to rebaseline in the summer before it goes too far.

 

Been worried about this for a while - how many players on £20K+ a week can we actually sustain?

Obviously not privy to exact details but my gut reaction would be - not many. Yet the direction of travel, in terms of recruitment, seems to be to add more and more big (for us) wage earners.

I've got pelters for it before but I'll say it again - if I was Lansdown I'd be tempted to turn the taps off and tell Johnson to get on with it.       

 

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1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

The big stand out comments for me in that article is we have so far had captains so far this season. We need a Jon Terry / Shawn Taylor type captain, who is not afraid to  go up to his team mates get them my the throat and tell them what he wants from them.So who in our present team could play that role?

Very good point. We do not seem to have that guy.  I had hoped that Kalas would be but with injuries and lack games.  Perhaps Korey but his game time is now restricted. 

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On 27/02/2020 at 10:41, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- though I don't think the trading that bad- not saying it's exceptional either but I don't think it's that bad.

Too much churn in general though, absolutely- thought so for 2 years. Some of it is fairly unavoidable but the trading levels seem much too much.

The trading level is high but we have to be realistic.

Firstly, it is the stated policy of the club, buy/ develop - increase their value, then sell.

Secondly, it is incredibly difficult to hold on to a player when a PL club comes in even if your policy was not the above. When a player is being offered multiple increases in wages and a chance to play at a higher level not many are going to refuse that opportunity. 

The answer is to get promoted but that is all the more difficult when you trade at our level.

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55 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

The trading level is high but we have to be realistic.

Firstly, it is the stated policy of the club, buy/ develop - increase their value, then sell.

Secondly, it is incredibly difficult to hold on to a player when a PL club comes in even if your policy was not the above. When a player is being offered multiple increases in wages and a chance to play at a higher level not many are going to refuse that opportunity. 

The answer is to get promoted but that is all the more difficult when you trade at our level.

Oh I mean in terms of the quality- I don't think it's that bad or exceptional- but not that bad, perhaps decent even. Taken as a whole or out of 10- we're not a Brentford but we have traded at a profit and signed some quite good players. Whether LJ can get the best out of them is entirely a different debate...

The churn really does feel a bit too much but maybe it's just the modern game- as you say when PL clubs come in it's so hard to hold on.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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