Mid table obscurity....

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Depends on who is in charge of the team.  

Exactly we need a  named manager that has done it not another wannabee 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Spot on @Olé 

Lansdown lavished Johnson with money that would be the envy of all but a few teams in this division. 

12th place is absolutely a regression, compounded by the borderline offensive home performances we have endured over the last two seasons. 

I'd be very concerned that Lansdowns appetite to invest further will wane because he is seeing nothing back on the pitch to justify dipping his hand in, 1again and again.

We have a small club mentality here at Bristol City, that just because we have traditionally sat in division 2, sweating it out here is all fine and dandy. 

We've been by-passed but smaller clubs than our own who dare to dream a bit higher than 12th place in division 2.

I barely watched any of the post lockdown city games, and I very much doubt I missed too much. Ill give it another year as I foolishly caved in (again) to the early bird ST renewals but if things don't improve next year I'm going to find something else to to on a Saturday.

[Cowshed]

34 minutes ago, Olé said:

I've been off OTIB for several weeks now as detox from another failed year, but with the season in the books I felt it was time to speak up about things without fear of casting negativity on "ongoing" players efforts. Now those efforts are complete, I was about to sum up my less than charitable feelings for the players and the club after today, but I see @Robbored has summarised it quite nicely.

What a sad reflection of a season, that we more than almost any other club - bar our opponents and the likes of Reading - are left as complete also rans and after-thoughts at the business end of the season. All these clubs battling for their lives or producing stirring run ins, and yet again we fold cheaply. Lee Johnson rightly paid with his job, but at Ashton Gate our players also get off far too lightly.

I wouldn't mind mid-table obscurity - it's a fairly positive and safe place for us in the historic natural order - but with a match-day squad that we'd spent over £30m on, including a £9m central defender, £15m of signings from Chelsea, and a first ever January transfer window promotion gamble on one of the divisions top scorers, the return from these players is an embarrassing underachievement.

Dismissing LJ has conveniently absorbed much of the pent up frustration among fans, but the squad as a whole have a lot of questions to answer about largely uncompetitive form since December - and they likely get away with it again, given only the slightest dip in goodwill. We tend to quickly forgive and hero worship our players more easily than rival clubs whose passion and stature we claim to share. 

For once we need to send a message to the players - good or bad - that their "work" simply isn't good enough. That demands out and out leadership - something this club hasn't had since Cotterill. Players need to be motivated and disciplined. Paul Cook has Wigan players running through walls for him, and he's far from the only one. Like many, he'd be appalled at what our £30m's worth gets away with.

So over to MA & SL. Do we bring in that leadership? Do we cease to be the soft touch that falters each year? Stating the obvious but the proof will be in their actions, and on prior form I'm not optimistic. Ashton and co are threatened by the idea of an empowered, bloody-minded leader. They'll try another creative appointment and in a year we'll watch again as every other club fights to the very end but us.

Players need to be motivated ... Where do you think that comes from and why it seeps away? The person leading them, its coach was not a good enough to put into practice whatever his ever changing ideas were. The players response was a logical outcome. 

Football professionals are very highly motivated individuals. That is why they are such a tiny percentile of the population.

[WayOutWest]

4 hours ago, Olé said:

I've been off OTIB for several weeks now as detox from another failed year, but with the season in the books I felt it was time to speak up about things without fear of casting negativity on "ongoing" players efforts. Now those efforts are complete, I was about to sum up my less than charitable feelings for the players and the club after today, but I see @Robbored has summarised it quite nicely.

What a sad reflection of a season, that we more than almost any other club - bar our opponents and the likes of Reading - are left as complete also rans and after-thoughts at the business end of the season. All these clubs battling for their lives or producing stirring run ins, and yet again we fold cheaply. Lee Johnson rightly paid with his job, but at Ashton Gate our players also get off far too lightly.

I wouldn't mind mid-table obscurity - it's a fairly positive and safe place for us in the historic natural order - but with a match-day squad that we'd spent over £30m on, including a £9m central defender, £15m of signings from Chelsea, and a first ever January transfer window promotion gamble on one of the divisions top scorers, the return from these players is an embarrassing underachievement.

Dismissing LJ has conveniently absorbed much of the pent up frustration among fans, but the squad as a whole have a lot of questions to answer about largely uncompetitive form since December - and they likely get away with it again, given only the slightest dip in goodwill. We tend to quickly forgive and hero worship our players more easily than rival clubs whose passion and stature we claim to share. 

For once we need to send a message to the players - good or bad - that their "work" simply isn't good enough. That demands out and out leadership - something this club hasn't had since Cotterill. Players need to be motivated and disciplined. Paul Cook has Wigan players running through walls for him, and he's far from the only one. Like many, he'd be appalled at what our £30m's worth gets away with.

So over to MA & SL. Do we bring in that leadership? Do we cease to be the soft touch that falters each year? Stating the obvious but the proof will be in their actions, and on prior form I'm not optimistic. Ashton and co are threatened by the idea of an empowered, bloody-minded leader. They'll try another creative appointment and in a year we'll watch again as every other club fights to the very end but us.

I agree with some of what you said. But the most annoying thing about all this was LJ going down the road of not trusting players. 

It was the most frustrating part of his leadership. He hung those players out to dry in post match interviews. It's unacceptable to do that. You win and lose as a team and all that can be dealt with, behind close doors. Not aired in public. 

Some of our players have been made outcasts. Take Palmer as an example. I would rather have seen LJ coach him into the match day squad rather than cast him aside. This to me is what a great manager can do. 

LJ in many respects failed most of his players at sometime. This squad capitulated once again at the wrong time in the season. It falls directly at LJ's feet and he paid the ultimate price for not picking this group of players up when they most needed it. Instead his lack of maturity sent him in to pitch side squabbles with opposition benches and tunnel incidents which in my opinion were completely unnecessary. 

Management is a 2 way street. However LJ went down cul de sac. 

Yes the players could have done more, but there needs to be an environment created where they feel empowered and able to perform daily. This I believe was absent.

These are good players. They need a fresh face, with new ideas. Get that buy in and I believe this squad enhanced is good enough. 

Stevo 

[Olé]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Players need to be motivated ... Where do you think that comes from and why it seeps away? The person leading them, its coach was not a good enough to put into practice whatever his ever changing ideas were. The players response was a logical outcome. 

I don't think we're disagreeing - my point was that the club needs to hire a manager who can lead and inspire (or if necessary drive) players to get back that motivation which is so obviously lacking this campaign, albeit I suppose I went a step further and said players themselves are not blameless and getting an easy ride.

I accept the point you're making that players are highly self motivated so it's more a case of restoring what the prior coach had caused to ebb away, but I stand by the fact that finishing 12th on -6 goal difference with what appeared on paper at least our strongest squad for years, reflects poorly on that £30m+ of talent too.

These highly self-motivated individuals have often dug deep when professional pride was at stake. After sitting through the 5-0 at Preston some years back I'm reminded various stories came out of the likes of Flint getting them all together to sort it out of sheer embarrassment. The players found their own source of motivation.

Yet this year, whether or not LJ offered little inspiration, I don't believe our players have ever exhibited any of that self-motivation to restore personal pride. Our defeat at Huddersfield in February was as hopeless as that Preston game (with already sketchy form since December) and we didn't win again until the season was over. 

This expensive squad has coasted. There's a vacuum of leadership in the squad (an unguarded Taylor Moore on Robins TV saying the club record signing centre back is "immature" it's a reasonable sign) and so there is a desperate need for a manager who inspires - but if necessary disciplines - players to find their motivation.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

We are traditionally a mid table Championship ( second division ) club, so we have hit par.

The one major difference nowadays is that we currently play negative boring football, whereas in the past we were always an entertaining football team that played attacking football with wingers.

Excuse me if I’m not at all excited about finishing 12th, in a league that has lacked any real quality except for 2-3 sides. A half decent manager with a bit of know how and experience would have got us a play off spot with the players we had at our disposal. 
This season has just been another massive disappointment, and I blame one arrogant now sacked manager.

He should have been out the door after our record breaking non winning run, so I blame the person who didnt sack him then and brought him here in the first place.

So while we are all hoping for Steve to break the mould and bring in an exp proven winning manager, lets take a moment to recall his prev choices; trust me on Tinnion, Stupid question, and here today gone tomorrow Coppell etc;

Obvious front runners, the winner will be the one who fits into the plan and a mixture of all his prev choices. Same old same old...........we go again

[Jacki]

7 hours ago, North London Red said:

The big concern for me is we've taken 10 points from our last 14 games, which is relegation form. Six of those points came against fairly woeful Hull and Middlesbrough sides, both of whom were at the wrong end of the table. 

If we start next season in a similar vein, the new man in charge could find himself presiding over a relegation dogfight if we're not careful. 

Hopefully my pessimism is misplaced but we will clearly need to buck our ideas up between now and the start of 2020-21. 

I was thinking exactly this last night. The way results fell away after a season in which performances were so average all the way through is a real concern going into next season. Even when we were winning games it was by fine margins and I only remember 3 decent home performances all season. 

We have a number of good and promising players on the books but with Smith, Fam and Eliasson likely on the move we have a lot of work to do and signings to make to get ourselves competitive again.

This close season is as important as any as I’ve known for a while. Hughton coming in and bringing 4 strong new signings with him would really make me confident we could compete. If we bring in a lower league man I’d be really concerned we’ll continue to go backwards. 

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Of course it's no surprise. If you believed all that you read on OTIB most City supporters are eternal pessimists and a few wouldnt be happy even if we won the league by 20 points and scored over 100 goals. 

Most City supporters have become pessimistic due to historical underachievement and near misses of the last forty odd years and yet we dream.

The ‘ few ‘ who wouldn’t be happy if we won the league by twenty points ... don’t exist . 
 

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

I don't think we're disagreeing - my point was that the club needs to hire a manager who can lead and inspire (or if necessary drive) players to get back that motivation which is so obviously lacking this campaign, albeit I suppose I went a step further and said players themselves are not blameless and getting an easy ride.

I accept the point you're making that players are highly self motivated so it's more a case of restoring what the prior coach had caused to ebb away, but I stand by the fact that finishing 12th on -6 goal difference with what appeared on paper at least our strongest squad for years, reflects poorly on that £30m+ of talent too.

These highly self-motivated individuals have often dug deep when professional pride was at stake. After sitting through the 5-0 at Preston some years back I'm reminded various stories came out of the likes of Flint getting them all together to sort it out of sheer embarrassment. The players found their own source of motivation.

Yet this year, whether or not LJ offered little inspiration, I don't believe our players have ever exhibited any of that self-motivation to restore personal pride. Our defeat at Huddersfield in February was as hopeless as that Preston game (with already sketchy form since December) and we didn't win again until the season was over. 

This expensive squad has coasted. There's a vacuum of leadership in the squad (an unguarded Taylor Moore on Robins TV saying the club record signing centre back is "immature" it's a reasonable sign) and so there is a desperate need for a manager who inspires - but if necessary disciplines - players to find their motivation.

Finishing twelfth and the performances are a reflection of Lee Johnson. He had his transfer windows and had time to put his identity and philosophy in place. Players did not buy into him and his ideas. 

Players do not enter that pitch wanting to play poorly or with doubt. Confidence and motivation is multifaceted and its up to the Manager and staff to put in place their behaviours that create positive mindsets, and make good performance more likely.

Mr Johnson regularly criticised players publically, he bemoaned his lack of Leaders for seasons, he chopped and changed players and tactics and in particular tactics at an astonishing rate. Amongst this Mr Johnson employed Bill Beswick a sports psychologist. Mr Beswick is one of THE best in football. Mr Beswick  believes everything starts with the vision. The players have to share in that vision and everything follows, the teams culture, its values and its principles.

Lee Johnson vision? 

The teams culture?

Mr Johnson's values?

Lee Johnsons principles?

After four years plus its not clear, or even close what the answers were. 

The players would have to be superhuman not be negatively affected by Mr Johnson behaviours. Leaders in the team, its cultural architects follow the authentic leadership of the Leader. Mr Johnson lacked that authenticity.

There is always a primary need for Managers and Coaches to inspire. Inspiration, the mental drives the physical. 

And as an aside disciplining players with the intention of motivating them is highly ineffectual. It is virtually always damaging. 

[MATT BCFC]

There was a time not too long ago us fans would have happily settled for mid table in the Championship!

[Son of Fred]

11 hours ago, Matthew me said:

I do get the feeling this is the turning point

Your not wrong Matthew..

We will either be knocking on the Premier league 'door in two years or back through that trapdoor,,,,,,again.

Won't be anything in-between.

[Robbored]

32 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Finishing twelfth and the performances are a reflection of Lee Johnson. He had his transfer windows and had time to put his identity and philosophy in place. Players did not buy into him and his ideas. 

Players do not enter that pitch wanting to play poorly or with doubt. Confidence and motivation is multifaceted and its up to the Manager and staff to put in place their behaviours that create positive mindsets, and make good performance more likely.

Mr Johnson regularly criticised players publically, he bemoaned his lack of Leaders for seasons, he chopped and changed players and tactics and in particular tactics at an astonishing rate. Amongst this Mr Johnson employed Bill Beswick a sports psychologist. Mr Beswick is one of THE best in football. Mr Beswick  believes everything starts with the vision. The players have to share in that vision and everything follows, the teams culture, its values and its principles.

Lee Johnson vision? 

The teams culture?

Mr Johnson's values?

Lee Johnsons principles?

After four years plus its not clear, or even close what the answers were. 

The players would have to be superhuman not be negatively affected by Mr Johnson behaviours. Leaders in the team, its cultural architects follow the authentic leadership of the Leader. Mr Johnson lacked that authenticity.

There is always a primary need for Managers and Coaches to inspire. Inspiration, the mental drives the physical. 

And as an aside disciplining players with the intention of motivating them is highly ineffectual. It is virtually always damaging. 

Spot on analysis Cowshed. You could say exactly the same things about his father.........

The fact that LJ owes his playing career to his father means that he worked under very few other managers and the style that of management that LJ employed was a mirror image of his fathers style. 

GJ had one good season  playing exactly the same style of football that LJ inherited, dull, dreary and pedestrian. The difference being that GJ was winning games which led to the play off final but still only had a +7 goal difference............Iirc Darren Byfield top scorer with 8..........

[Red Exile]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Most City supporters have become pessimistic due to historical underachievement and near misses of the last forty odd years and yet we dream.

The ‘ few ‘ who wouldn’t be happy if we won the league by twenty points ... don’t exist . 
 

out of likes - I agree 100%

I'm tired of reading posts from folk who want to rubbish other posters by attributing - without any examples given - opinions that no one in fact holds. Accusations of 'impatience' particularly stick in the craw after 40 years!

[City oz]

10 hours ago, Olé said:

I've been off OTIB for several weeks now as detox from another failed year, but with the season in the books I felt it was time to speak up about things without fear of casting negativity on "ongoing" players efforts. Now those efforts are complete, I was about to sum up my less than charitable feelings for the players and the club after today, but I see @Robbored has summarised it quite nicely.

What a sad reflection of a season, that we more than almost any other club - bar our opponents and the likes of Reading - are left as complete also rans and after-thoughts at the business end of the season. All these clubs battling for their lives or producing stirring run ins, and yet again we fold cheaply. Lee Johnson rightly paid with his job, but at Ashton Gate our players also get off far too lightly.

I wouldn't mind mid-table obscurity - it's a fairly positive and safe place for us in the historic natural order - but with a match-day squad that we'd spent over £30m on, including a £9m central defender, £15m of signings from Chelsea, and a first ever January transfer window promotion gamble on one of the divisions top scorers, the return from these players is an embarrassing underachievement.

Dismissing LJ has conveniently absorbed much of the pent up frustration among fans, but the squad as a whole have a lot of questions to answer about largely uncompetitive form since December - and they likely get away with it again, given only the slightest dip in goodwill. We tend to quickly forgive and hero worship our players more easily than rival clubs whose passion and stature we claim to share. 

For once we need to send a message to the players - good or bad - that their "work" simply isn't good enough. That demands out and out leadership - something this club hasn't had since Cotterill. Players need to be motivated and disciplined. Paul Cook has Wigan players running through walls for him, and he's far from the only one. Like many, he'd be appalled at what our £30m's worth gets away with.

So over to MA & SL. Do we bring in that leadership? Do we cease to be the soft touch that falters each year? Stating the obvious but the proof will be in their actions, and on prior form I'm not optimistic. Ashton and co are threatened by the idea of an empowered, bloody-minded leader. They'll try another creative appointment and in a year we'll watch again as every other club fights to the very end but us.

Ole, you hit the nail on the head especially around leadership or lack of it. I only disagree with one item around the players “simply isn’t good enough” i think some have played not some most have played very well. 

I think its the way they have been told to play in certain positions that they are not normally used too. 

I am a great advocate in trying players in the odd position now again for experimentation. However LJ was on a different planet either with his communication to players where he tried to change positions or he started to get desperate. I think the latter is the case.

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, Olé said:

I've been off OTIB for several weeks now as detox from another failed year, but with the season in the books I felt it was time to speak up about things without fear of casting negativity on "ongoing" players efforts. Now those efforts are complete, I was about to sum up my less than charitable feelings for the players and the club after today, but I see @Robbored has summarised it quite nicely.

What a sad reflection of a season, that we more than almost any other club - bar our opponents and the likes of Reading - are left as complete also rans and after-thoughts at the business end of the season. All these clubs battling for their lives or producing stirring run ins, and yet again we fold cheaply. Lee Johnson rightly paid with his job, but at Ashton Gate our players also get off far too lightly.

I wouldn't mind mid-table obscurity - it's a fairly positive and safe place for us in the historic natural order - but with a match-day squad that we'd spent over £30m on, including a £9m central defender, £15m of signings from Chelsea, and a first ever January transfer window promotion gamble on one of the divisions top scorers, the return from these players is an embarrassing underachievement.

Dismissing LJ has conveniently absorbed much of the pent up frustration among fans, but the squad as a whole have a lot of questions to answer about largely uncompetitive form since December - and they likely get away with it again, given only the slightest dip in goodwill. We tend to quickly forgive and hero worship our players more easily than rival clubs whose passion and stature we claim to share. 

For once we need to send a message to the players - good or bad - that their "work" simply isn't good enough. That demands out and out leadership - something this club hasn't had since Cotterill. Players need to be motivated and disciplined. Paul Cook has Wigan players running through walls for him, and he's far from the only one. Like many, he'd be appalled at what our £30m's worth gets away with.

So over to MA & SL. Do we bring in that leadership? Do we cease to be the soft touch that falters each year? Stating the obvious but the proof will be in their actions, and on prior form I'm not optimistic. Ashton and co are threatened by the idea of an empowered, bloody-minded leader. They'll try another creative appointment and in a year we'll watch again as every other club fights to the very end but us.

I’m nit pushing Dean Holden for the job, but I’ve posted elsewhere, a caretaker manager with little managing experience (none at this level) has inherited an underperforming squad from LJ, has put in a system and style that has brought a turnaround in results.  I’m not saying it was brilliant, but I saw method in our approach, and players understanding their roles and using their instinct to do things.  Why weren’t the players able to do that under LJ?  Even when getting results it was rarely a convincing and stylish performance.

My point is if a new manager with more experience comes in and can improve on Holden (he should be able to) then we might get more out of these players.  There is no doubt that there is talent in this squad.  But they are guilty too throughout this season from an outside looking in.

9 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Spot on @Olé 

Lansdown lavished Johnson with money that would be the envy of all but a few teams in this division. 

12th place is absolutely a regression, compounded by the borderline offensive home performances we have endured over the last two seasons. 

I'd be very concerned that Lansdowns appetite to invest further will wane because he is seeing nothing back on the pitch to justify dipping his hand in, 1again and again.

We have a small club mentality here at Bristol City, that just because we have traditionally sat in division 2, sweating it out here is all fine and dandy. 

We've been by-passed but smaller clubs than our own who dare to dream a bit higher than 12th place in division 2.

I barely watched any of the post lockdown city games, and I very much doubt I missed too much. Ill give it another year as I foolishly caved in (again) to the early bird ST renewals but if things don't improve next year I'm going to find something else to to on a Saturday.

Yes, our performances have not been top 8 all season really.  We’ve regressed to where we probably deserve to be.  People say mid table budget, but after Kelly was sold (which went into 18/19’s accounts), we made a ffp profit of £24m from sales this season.  We spent £24m, and that’s not including agent fees, signing on fees, loan fees and an increase to the wage bill.  We went backwards.

5 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

I agree with some of what you said. But the most annoying thing about all this was LJ going down the road of not trusting players. 

It was the most frustrating part of his leadership. He hung those players out to dry in post match interviews. It's unacceptable to do that. You win and lose as a team and all that can be dealt with, behind close doors. Not aired in public. 

Some of our players have been made outcasts. Take Palmer as an example. I would rather have seen LJ coach him into the match day squad rather than cast him aside. This to me is what a great manager can do. 

LJ in many respects failed most of his players at sometime. This squad capitulated once again at the wrong time in the season. It falls directly at LJ's feet and he paid the ultimate price for not picking this group of players up when they most needed it. Instead his lack of maturity sent him in to pitch side squabbles with opposition benches and tunnel incidents which in my opinion were completely unnecessary. 

Management is a 2 way street. However LJ went down cul de sac. 

Yes the players could have done more, but there needs to be an environment created where they feel empowered and able to perform daily. This I believe was absent.

These are good players. They need a fresh face, with new ideas. Get that buy in and I believe this squad enhanced is good enough. 

Stevo 

some valid points there.  The “trust” thing is the biggest damming of LJ’s time here.  It really pinpoints his lack of man-management.

DH “want to put smiles back on their faces”

Why weren’t there smiles?

[Red Exile]

9 minutes ago, City oz said:

Ole, you hit the nail on the head especially around leadership or lack of it. I only disagree with one item around the players “simply isn’t good enough” i think some have played not some most have played very well. 

I think its the way they have been told to play in certain positions that they are not normally used too. 

I am a great advocate in trying players in the odd position now again for experimentation. However LJ was on a different planet either with his communication to players where he tried to change positions or he started to get desperate. I think the latter is the case.

Many good posts in this thread...but what is extraordinary about the lack of apparent leadership on the pitch, and LJ's lamentations, is that we had signed two former England u19 captains - Moore and Dasilva - and for more or less the whole season had the Wales captain from their finest ever national team performances playing in the heart of our defence.

I think @Cowshed is right. Having taught on management courses myself I'd say that it is widely accepted that authenticity is the key to successful leadership. You can't teach someone to pretend to be something they aren't forever. People see through an inconsistent 'act' eventually. As the 'leader' of our football club that moment came for me with Lee Johnson long ago.

Edit: His father, on the other hand, was exactly as he appeared. Met him several times and he oozed authentic leadership - one might not like it, and it might or might not always work, but his style served him well over a long career.

[Phileas Fogg]

A bit disappointing but not a terrible position all things considered. In a way, I’d rather us not get playoffs behind closed doors. Would feel a bit weird.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Totally agree, I feel the ability to have signed so many players was a big issue as it gave the coach too many options and excuses. His best period was with a group of players everyone would now be sneering at. We became "if only we had" rather than using "what we had" and creating a team. Leeds is a lovely example of focused recruitment and improving all of your players. Heck they signed a right back for 200k , how much have we spent on right backs since ? 

Yes agreed. 

I also think with constant churn, you cannot build. At some clubs it's the manager- but momentum, harmony, patterns,  familiarity- can't be done. 

My Leeds example was somewhat reflecting continuity. I don't believe that- with the right manager- we need massive squad changes this summer. Some yes, but no standard LJ churn!

[Monkeh]

10 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Spot on @Olé 

Lansdown lavished Johnson with money that would be the envy of all but a few teams in this division. 

12th place is absolutely a regression, compounded by the borderline offensive home performances we have endured over the last two seasons. 

I'd be very concerned that Lansdowns appetite to invest further will wane because he is seeing nothing back on the pitch to justify dipping his hand in, 1again and again.

We have a small club mentality here at Bristol City, that just because we have traditionally sat in division 2, sweating it out here is all fine and dandy. 

We've been by-passed but smaller clubs than our own who dare to dream a bit higher than 12th place in division 2.

I barely watched any of the post lockdown city games, and I very much doubt I missed too much. Ill give it another year as I foolishly caved in (again) to the early bird ST renewals but if things don't improve next year I'm going to find something else to to on a Saturday.

the smaller clubs who past us now find themselves in league one

[brady bunch]

13 hours ago, pigeon said:

I feel like the first game of the season, that absolute smashing we got from Leeds, should have probably told us there and then that we were dreaming if we thought we'd be in and around playoffs come the end of the season

it also showed that for all the talk, Leeds had done their homework us and had a plan (diagonal  long ball across field for Ayling to rise above De Silva and head a goal sprigs to mind), we had not and seemed to have no plan.

Leeds also looked fitter, sharper and switched on.  showed the pre season tour to USA at a normal time of bad weather/lightening storms was daft and a waste of time .

I realise I have the hindsight goggles on...

[Red Exile]

36 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

We got what we deserved and it was possible to see it coming for 2 years at least . There has been a ridiculous lack of scrutiny of approach and total lack of accountability for the actions of LJ and to an extent MA.

Couldn't agree more with your post...and I might add that there has been a ridiculous lack of holding to account by many in, if not the majority of, our fan base, who seem to have lapped it all up. Time for change.

[Major Isewater]

44 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

There has been a ridiculous lack of scrutiny of approach and total lack of accountability for the actions of LJ and to an extent MA.

I think you’ll find that LJ has been held to account .

.#P45

As for MA, I would say he is very much in credit. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

54 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

it also showed that for all the talk, Leeds had done their homework us and had a plan (diagonal  long ball across field for Ayling to rise above De Silva and head a goal sprigs to mind), we had not and seemed to have no plan.

Leeds also looked fitter, sharper and switched on.  showed the pre season tour to USA at a normal time of bad weather/lightening storms was daft and a waste of time .

I realise I have the hindsight goggles on...

I did wonder if the pre-season tour would/might have knackered us somewhat.

Then we had a 10 game unbeaten run so I don't think it was that!

I watched that Leeds game back. Found it online- thought a bigger an more recurring theme was their outnumbering of us in midfield. 

They outfootballed us in addition to what you say. Us, a side containing the much lauded/vaunted Pack and Brownhill. Our midfield were largely outplayed, of course.

To put it down to a long diagonal, dunno about that! Watch it back if you find some time, tactically speaking. Outnumbered, outmanouvered certainly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, glos old boy said:

He should have been out the door after our record breaking non winning run, so I blame the person who didnt sack him then and brought him here in the first place.

So while we are all hoping for Steve to break the mould and bring in an exp proven winning manager, lets take a moment to recall his prev choices; trust me on Tinnion, Stupid question, and here today gone tomorrow Coppell etc;

Obvious front runners, the winner will be the one who fits into the plan and a mixture of all his prev choices. Same old same old...........we go again

O'Driscoll had a good, respectable record before joining us tbh.

Coppell- How many promotions from this level was it- two or three? His body of work at Reading as his most recent club, but over his career in general. It looked ideal to see us kick on...

These two were not poor managers at time of hire.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

O'Driscoll had a good, respectable record before joining us tbh.

Coppell- How many promotions from this level was it- two or three? His body of work at Reading as his most recent club, but over his career in general. It looked ideal to see us kick on...

These two were not poor managers at time of hire.

SoD is/was a gifted coach but not a easy guy to get along with. He certainly didn’t suffer fools gladly hence his ‘stupid question’ reactions. He was dead against the club going on a  preseason tour to Botswana because if the danger of his players getting injured playing local amateurs (cloggers) and SL was pissed off about that. Turns out that SoD was right...........

As for Coppel - he simply had had enough. Fell out of love with the game.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I think you’ll find that LJ has been held to account .

.#P45

As for MA, I would say he is very much in credit. 

From KP45 to P45

[Midlands Robin]

The strange thing about us as a club if you look back on the last 30 years or perhaps even more, there are only a small number of seasons where we haven't been fighting for something as the last weeks of the season play out, be that a top 6 finish or avoiding relegation. 

Occasionally when we aren't, we've filled the void with a strong cup run. 

This season, despite the fact we still had a slim chance of 6th place with 4 games to go, the whole season has never felt right. Nothing seemed to spark and there didn't appear to be that verve in the stands, on the pitch or with the management. 

While it would seem the main problem was at the back, as we ended on a negative goal difference, the real problem as I see it was our midfield and the total lack of ability to be creative. The midfield spots seemed to be filled with an ever revolving selection policy and coupled with changing formations and tactics, gave us no consistency of performance. 

Marlon Pack, much maligned in certain parts of our support, was sorely missed. A solid holding midfielder who could support the defence, move the ball well and allow our more creative midfielders to push forward. 

As well as a new manager, we need to prioritise finding the right midfield set up. We may have some of those players already in the squad such as the return of Walsh and another year of development for HNM. It is clear though that we need a new spine to this team as that hasn't worked this year. 

 

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Spot on analysis Cowshed. You could say exactly the same things about his father.........

The fact that LJ owes his playing career to his father means that he worked under very few other managers and the style that of management that LJ employed was a mirror image of his fathers style. 

GJ had one good season  playing exactly the same style of football that LJ inherited, dull, dreary and pedestrian. The difference being that GJ was winning games which led to the play off final but still only had a +7 goal difference............Iirc Darren Byfield top scorer with 8..........

How many times have the LJ lovers shot me down for saying the same?

Four wasted years. More wasteful than SOD and McInnes. At least they were trying to put right twenty years of poor team management!

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SoD is/was a gifted coach but not a easy guy to get along with. He certainly didn’t suffer fools gladly hence his ‘stupid question’ reactions. He was dead against the club going on a  preseason tour to Botswana because if the danger of his players getting injured playing local amateurs (cloggers) and SL was pissed off about that. Turns out that SoD was right...........

As for Coppel - he simply had had enough. Fell out of love with the game.

It didn't seem to be to his detriment at Bournemouth, Doncaster or Nottingham Forest tbh. Poor fit though but it was a shambolic time for the club.

Well that doesn't ring true. How can it, he joined then a few months later he quit, two games! He seemed to delay his arrival however...never a good sign.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Robbored

Reading up the thread.  Think your assessment of GJ rather harsh. We had phases we could be quite dominant, or good possession, good chances created. 

First half of season back up ie 2007/08, when he played Noble behind striker, talking at home largely, the football was fairly sound IIRC. Away from home we were definitely more pragmatic yet took some real hammering too. 

Early on in 2009/10, we had some good periods. 2 goals here, 3 goals there. Some good possession.

Don't think he got the best out of various players though, but OTOH if we could've had either Maynard in that 2007/08 side or a fully fit Brooker-Maynard front two from 2008/09, who knows how things may have panned out!

Think GJ was in a number of ways better than LJ which is odd as when LJ joined I was hoping for GJ but better.

Upgraded, more modern - the strengths of GJ but ultimately better.