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Sammie Szmodics - Signs for Peterborough


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51 minutes ago, Swede said:

At the time Palmer was on tour with Frank Lampard's chelsea and there was a chance he would stay there. I think we signed SS as a calculated punt back up plan. Unfortunately he became surplus to requirements very quickly once Palmer signed.

I think you could read the same with Eisa and Adelakun. See if they can make the step up and as long as you can recoup your outlay everyone wins.

It would be great if all signings work out but sadly not all do

No argument from me.

With Eisa & Szmodics we have more than got our money back, too.

Adelakun? Not so much..

Edited by GrahamC
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1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

What a waste of a good player. Typical Johnson. Sign them , never give them a decent chance and sell them. Let's hope these days are over now he has gone.

Trouble was, when he was picked he didn't really do anything, looked a bit lost. Probably needed more time to adjust but there's been so much competition for places in our squad that you have to take your chance and make an immediate contribution when opportunity knocks (apart from academy players).

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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

I don't think we've sold one single player without a sell on clause since Andy Cole signed for Man Utd.

Only on OTIB can an ex manager be blamed for his successor selling a player! 🤦‍♂️

Especially when it’s the ongoing MO of the club and in the hands of the CEO!

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Thought he was an exciting signing when we got him. Feels like we've been unlucky with our lower league signings recently.

This is a good move for both parties, I read somewhere this transfer has basically paid for Williams as we've made a profit? 

Edited by Sturny
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1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Would probably need @Mr Popodopolous or @Davefevs on this being in better knowledge than myself but normally fees are amortised but not sure how it works with compensation. 

My understanding is it doesn't change the amounts, but it's more of an accounting trick to spread the value of a contract over it's length as you've said. It won't change the underlying figures though. I don't think compensation changes anything.

If we have amortised 250k of his 750k value after this first year, then he's worth 500k still in our accounts - that is, we're saying he's cost us 250k already, so has 500k left to cost us. If we have now sold him for 1m, we can mark a +500k player profit in the books for this year (sale value - remaining amortisation). Doing it the more intuitive way, we'd mark -750k last year, and +1m this year which ends up much more "spiky" and harder to predict/plan on. That's my understanding behind the reasoning anyway.

The "profit" would be marked in the clubs accounts differently, but I think what most of us consider "profit" is 250k. Then you minus the wages etc.

I could be wrong though!

edit: rereading your post you probably knew this already..!

Edited by IAmNick
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I think the club did well throughout the whole Szmodics process signing to selling.

Low to no risk signing because of the compensation paid.

Always an opportunity to make something back on him if it didn't work out.

If it did work out, great!

I support the club taking gambles on the Eisa, Adelakun, Szmodics types.

And he seems like a nice guy so good luck to him!

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1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

We bought Mo whereas Szomdics was compensation so would be more comparable to Brownhill and PNE wouldn't it? Purely depends what was in the compensation agreement, can see Colchester wanting more of it upfront so if there was any form of sell on can't see it being much. Also £750,000 we paid in compensation would have been spread over the 3 seasons so £250,000 on our books vs the rumoured £1m - £1.5m seen bandied about online so could be anywhere in the £750,000 to £1.25m area for profit on the transfer. Wages I would guess a max of 6k a week based on the fact he joined us over Peterborough for champ football rather than money so nudge over £300,000 for wages for the season, assume P'boro would have paid at least half from Jan so I'd guess maybe £175,000 paid in wages. So books wise would make it anywhere between £575,000 - £1,075,000 profit wouldn't it?  

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1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Would probably need @Mr Popodopolous or @Davefevs on this being in better knowledge than myself but normally fees are amortised but not sure how it works with compensation. 

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10 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

  

My understanding is it doesn't change the amounts, but it's more of an accounting trick to spread the value of a contract over it's length as you've said. It won't change the underlying figures though. I don't think compensation changes anything.

If we have amortised 250k of his 750k value after this first year, then he's worth 500k still in our accounts - that is, we're saying he's cost us 250k already, so has 500k left to cost us. If we have now sold him for 1m, we can mark a +500k player profit in the books for this year (sale value - remaining amortisation). Doing it the more intuitive way, we'd mark -750k last year, and +1m this year which ends up much more "spiky" and harder to predict/plan on. That's my understanding behind the reasoning anyway.

The "profit" would be marked in the clubs accounts differently, but I think what most of us consider "profit" is 250k. Then you minus the wages etc.

I could be wrong though!

edit: rereading your post you probably knew this already..!

Pretty much Nick.

Keeping numbers simple and not worrying about it being September rather than a June transfer, we are looking at the following.

£1.25m from Peterborough (assumed fee).

We paid £750k (close enough time £720k quoted above).

On a simple net spend basis, that’s a £500k profit.

However, we probably owe Colchester 20% of that, so they get £100k, so from a cash perspective we’ve made £400k.  We might get some add-ons like promotion, or a future sell on too.  But that’s all in the future.

From an accounting point of view!

his contract is now worth £500k (£750k amortised £250k pa).

We sold him for £1.25m, so that’s £750k net, minus the £100k to Colchester, so in the books we will state a transfer profit of £650k.

The future wage bill is off the books.  If you want to add the cost of that over his time here, then if he was on £8k pw....then he cost us £400k (minus say 50% of half of it from Peterborough last season), so £300k in wages.  So back up to the cash part....he’s probably made us £100k!!

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

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Pretty much Nick.

Keeping numbers simple and not worrying about it being September rather than a June transfer, we are looking at the following.

£1.25m from Peterborough (assumed fee).

We paid £750k (close enough time £720k quoted above).

On a simple net spend basis, that’s a £500k profit.

However, we probably owe Colchester 20% of that, so they get £100k, so from a cash perspective we’ve made £400k.  We might get some add-ons like promotion, or a future sell on too.  But that’s all in the future.

From an accounting point of view!

his contract is now worth £500k (£750k amortised £250k pa).

We sold him for £1.25m, so that’s £750k net, minus the £100k to Colchester, so in the books we will state a transfer profit of £650k.

The future wage bill is off the books.  If you want to add the cost of that over his time here, then if he was on £8k pw....then he cost us £400k (minus say 50% of half of it from Peterborough last season), so £300k in wages.  So back up to the cash part....he’s probably made us £100k!!

Do we actually know how much Posh paid? I thought it was undisclosed. 

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47 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Personally thought he looked out of his depth in the Championship (maybe due to lack of opportunity / trying too hard when he got a chance). Good luck to him at Posh.

Agree. Championship maybe too much for him at the moment. Peterborough great move. 

Him in behind Clarke Harris and Dembele could be very dangerous at that level. 

Mo Eisa a goal threat off the bench too.

Not quite as good as having Ivan Toney up top though!

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Just now, Davefevs said:

 

The future wage bill is off the books.  If you want to add the cost of that over his time here, then if he was on £8k pw....then he cost us £400k (minus say 50% of half of it from Peterborough last season), so £300k in wages.  So back up to the cash part....he’s probably made us £100k!!

Question: Sure?

Although Sammie was undoubtedly happy to go to Peterborough and he was told he was surplus here, I don’t recall him asking for a transfer.

I have it in my head that if a player moves without requesting a transfer, and the new club don’t pay as much in wages, that the selling club must top up the wages for the duration of the original contract. As he’s going down a division having moved as an (in contract) free agent here and able to demand more in wages, it’s likely he’s on less at Peterborough- so do we retain a liability?

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

No argument from me.

With Eisa & Szmodics we have more than got our money back, too.

Adelakun? Not so much..

You say we have got our money back but we must have paid a lot in wages and sign on fees. Thing is all these players needed first team minutes like Walsh and Morrell had. It worked well for Eisa until he got injured too. 

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Bit sad that the only time ive seen him play is in his highlight reel for Colchester and Posh.

Best of luck to him though, he seems like a good lad and move is probably best for all parties.

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Have to say, I think it's harsh to say he looked "out of depth" in the Championship. His total league minutes played for us equated to just over ONE game. Simply not enough to make a judgement.

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He could quite possibly turn out to be a great player and we may regret selling him, but we have far too many in the squad right now, and I think this is the right decision for both club and player. He seems a really nice bloke, and I wish him the best (except when playing against us) and that his sell-on nets us some cash down the line. 

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6 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Add him to the list. 

Engvall, Adelakun, Eisa, Szmodics

That must be the list of players that simply weren't good enough, at least at this stage of their careers they aren't. Who knows what might happen to them in the next 2 or 3 years (crystal ball anyone?).

Certainly no names on there to whinge about, I wouldn't have thought.

COYR.

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2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Another player who wasn't really given a decent chance under Johnson. Another one we may regret. 

Or rather, a player who didn’t merit more of a chance under Johnson.  If he had deserved a place, he would have been played.   There are always going to be players who don’t make the step-up from the lower divisions - Szmodics might have made it eventually, but it’s better for him to be playing.  I hope he does well.

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4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

⬇️⬇️⬇️

⬇️⬇️⬇️

Pretty much Nick.

Keeping numbers simple and not worrying about it being September rather than a June transfer, we are looking at the following.

£1.25m from Peterborough (assumed fee).

We paid £750k (close enough time £720k quoted above).

On a simple net spend basis, that’s a £500k profit.

However, we probably owe Colchester 20% of that, so they get £100k, so from a cash perspective we’ve made £400k.  We might get some add-ons like promotion, or a future sell on too.  But that’s all in the future.

From an accounting point of view!

his contract is now worth £500k (£750k amortised £250k pa).

We sold him for £1.25m, so that’s £750k net, minus the £100k to Colchester, so in the books we will state a transfer profit of £650k.

The future wage bill is off the books.  If you want to add the cost of that over his time here, then if he was on £8k pw....then he cost us £400k (minus say 50% of half of it from Peterborough last season), so £300k in wages.  So back up to the cash part....he’s probably made us £100k!!

Over to you @BigTone

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3 hours ago, Kibs said:

Have to say, I think it's harsh to say he looked "out of depth" in the Championship. His total league minutes played for us equated to just over ONE game. Simply not enough to make a judgement.

And the one game he played he looked lost and made no contribution whatsoever. That’s why we sold him. League 1 is his level! 

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I think we could possibly regret this but it's not our fault. We can't offer SS the game time he needs to develop and he possibly doesn't want to be loaned out again. Kinda reminds me of the Ayling situation, I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he didn't move, Leeds did wonders for him. 

He may progress to be a cracking championship player, and that'll be down to him moving perm and getting the development. 

Edited by Sturny
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