Help Needed - What do we do Next?

[Banjo Red]

41 minutes ago, sludge said:

Have we ever had one of those? I mean seriously, in the last 20 years there hasn't been many. I can't even think of one?!

Shaun taylor Glenn humphries the last one's I remember.

[maxjak]

A quality coach who can organise, structure a viable formation and motivate wouldn''t go amiss?

[sludge]

13 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

Shaun taylor Glenn humphries the last one's I remember.

Mental ain’t it. 

[WOTRED]

1 hour ago, sludge said:

Have we ever had one of those? I mean seriously, in the last 20 years there hasn't been many. I can't even think of one?!

Dave "the destroyer" Martin is the closest I can remember.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

On top of that we seem to always be over run, with the 2 central players tending to have 3 players on them.

To be expected at this level these days- the League is like this now as we know, 2 vs 3- opposition think 'thank you indeed' in a few cases. Attempting to fill those gaps risks unbalancing the side in other parts of the pitch.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Might also add.

Do we when the chance arises- in this instance between International breaks, get the balance right between regular training, building up fitness and crucial rest/recuperation?

I'm not convinced that we do, given the regular injuries. That should be a time to really get it right, two International breaks in just over 2 months...about to go into a 3rd.

[big dosser]

the first thing is to get us playing like a team that fights for one another, all im seeing is a poor bunch of misfits that could not give a shit about the badge on that shirt most weeks. Give me 11 tanners all day players with passion fight and commitment to the cause.at the end of the day the players cross that white line on a saturday and should give there all.

there is to many excuses and a blame game culture why we are poor. The players need to stand up and be counted and at the moment they should be embarrassed at robbing a wage from the club.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Let's start with what we shouldn't have done.

Given the finances, we shouldn't have given Weimann another 3 years, we shouldn't have re-signed Baker and we certainly shouldn't have signed King & Simpson.

But that's the fault of the total lack of a recruitment team with any savvy.

Onto what we possibly ought to do.

We need a system and players which create width, keep the ball and get down the channels.

I'd play a 4-2-3-1

                    Bentley
Tanner - Kalas - Atkinson - Pring
             Williams - James
Semenyo - Massengo  - Scott
                     Wells

Allow James & Williams to keep a solid base, allow the full back to push on, keep Wells central and making darts in behind rather than coming deep for the ball, allow the 3 AM's (Sem, HNM, Scott) to be fluid and switch positions regularly - and have Benarous/Pearson backing them up.  Have Conway backing up Wells in the 'last shoulder' role.

We'll still lose plenty of games (but we're going to already anyway) but at least we might have something interesting to watch up front.

So, Weimann, Baker, King and Simpson, not signed. I reckon that’s £30k p.w. (ish) available. 

Known quantities. 2 of them only 1 year deals so no huge commitment.

You undoubtedly could’ve gone and got 4 different free transfers for that £30k, but if (and I do say if) you might have reservations about talent id you might think I’ll go tried and tested.

Nige didn’t want to go with loans. You and I would’ve tried to get Ostigard instead of Baker. Ballard a bit more of a risk with Atkinson too.

You and I would’ve gone Twine, in the hope that James, Williams, Massengo with Bakinson would be enough in a 4231.  Could Nige have pushed for Dewsbury-Hall. Maybe not.

That just left one forward to get. Not easy. Could Pigott on a free have give us a bit of Martin cover with Conway and Bell as the Wells understudies?

Definitely could’ve been different, but we don’t know who we were looking at. 

37 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I do go back and read and try to understand what he did at Leicester. There are a few similar parallels already, he was not afraid to play youth and sought players with character. It was not a million years ago either, just 6. So not so old it is irrelevant.

More importantly is this quote from him regarding that second stint 

"I walked into a Leicester City that was under new ownership and with a playing squad that had changed hugely from when I left (18 months). On paper all of us agreed - good sde. But we quickly found out that the reason it was a good squad of players that weren't getting results was because they were precisely that - a good squad on paper. We recognised pretty quickly that we needed to change things both in terms of the players and the culture. Sometimes you can only change the culture by changing the players. It is something that evolves over a period of time, which can be one of the difficult things as a manager. It's not always just about results - you can get quite low when you cannot see a shift in mentality. We got there in the end, but it took patience. The managers best work is often done when the results are shit. When everyone else is moaning - that's probably when you are doing your best work. "

There is plenty more to add, how he developed Vardy and about creating the mood where players feel good and positive. But to have that , you need the right players. So the issue of recruitment becomes as big as @Harrywrote his post about, it is where we have to get January and next summer right and that means having the best recruitment team we can have. 

 

That’s why we need to look wider than results. It’s hard to remain patient. I’m still more than happy to see how it pans out though. 

[Red_Alligator]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Shouldn't Pearson be good at that?

I'm sure he's probably, at least, quite good at that Jon. But as I think Gordon Strachan once pointed out, whether the players can or do carry out those instructions is a much wider issue. 

Whoever might be in the Manager's office at Ashton Gate, NP or otherwise, is currently quite limited in options, and will be until such time as significant changes (out as much as in) , can be engineered. 

At present, the only real option to make a significant change in the first eleven, would be to regularly involve more youngsters. But would that work??....

 

[bpexile]

9 hours ago, sludge said:

Surely we could get a couple of nasty ba$tards in January without breaking the bank?

I'm not pointing at you sludge but there's always a couple available on this forum................................................. sadly.

After reading the entire post I see others have eluded to the same, my apologies guys.

Edited November 3, 2021 by bpexile

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, big dosser said:

the first thing is to get us playing like a team that fights for one another, all im seeing is a poor bunch of misfits that could not give a shit about the badge on that shirt most weeks. 

Hate to say it but that's horseshit. Did you see the state of them at the final whistle on Saturday?

There's many things still need fixing but committment to the cause ain't one of them.

[KegCity]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

You and I would’ve gone Twine, in the hope that James, Williams, Massengo with Bakinson would be enough in a 4231.  Could Nige have pushed for Dewsbury-Hall. Maybe not.

 

Not moving for Twine seems like madness to me. Wages must be minimal and there’s no real downside to bringing him in, just to probably be an Alex Scott level of player and if he can earn a spot in the side the better.

In fairness the culture at the club surely needs changing, so bringing in the older Leicester guys would make more sense in the short term. 

[westex red]

Haven't a clue what we do next, and the worrying thing is nor does NP!

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, big dosser said:

 The players need to stand up and be counted and at the moment they should be

I think it's 23 mate, although you'd best check that with @Davefevs (he's always counting these things)

[Harry]

Oh. I forgot one thing to add to my earlier post. 
One thing that absolutely MUST happen and is the easiest thing to fix. 
 

Pearson needs to get in the bloody dugout and earn his money as the motivator and organiser he’s supposed to be. 
 

I can’t ever remember Pep, Klopp, Jose etc sitting in the stands with their mate on a laptop. The best managers are prowling the technical area, shouting instructions, giving empathy, attempting to persuade the ref etc. 
Get in the ******* dugout and give your players the support/cajoling/organisation/coaching they need. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

So, Weimann, Baker, King and Simpson, not signed. I reckon that’s £30k p.w. (ish) available. 

Known quantities. 2 of them only 1 year deals so no huge commitment.

You undoubtedly could’ve gone and got 4 different free transfers for that £30k, but if (and I do say if) you might have reservations about talent id you might think I’ll go tried and tested.

Nige didn’t want to go with loans. You and I would’ve tried to get Ostigard instead of Baker. Ballard a bit more of a risk with Atkinson too.

You and I would’ve gone Twine, in the hope that James, Williams, Massengo with Bakinson would be enough in a 4231.  Could Nige have pushed for Dewsbury-Hall. Maybe not.

That just left one forward to get. Not easy. Could Pigott on a free have give us a bit of Martin cover with Conway and Bell as the Wells understudies?

Definitely could’ve been different, but we don’t know who we were looking at. 

That’s why we need to look wider than results. It’s hard to remain patient. I’m still more than happy to see how it pans out though. 

Exactly Dave. That’s why I don’t blame Pearson for the recruitment. As I alluded to in my post last week, he’s obviously gonna go with what he knows if he’s got an anaemic recruitment department. 

[westex red]

Just now, Harry said:

Oh. I forgot one thing to add to my earlier post. 
One thing that absolutely MUST happen and is the easiest thing to fix. 
 

Pearson needs to get in the bloody dugout and earn his money as the motivator and organiser he’s supposed to be. 
 

I can’t ever remember Pep, Klopp, Jose etc sitting in the stands with their mate on a laptop. The best managers are prowling the technical area, shouting instructions, giving empathy, attempting to persuade the ref etc. 
Get in the ******* dugout and give your players the support/cajoling/organisation/coaching they need. 

Sorry I am in the minority, I believe you get a better perspective of the game sat higher up.

[Harry]

Just now, westex red said:

Sorry I am in the minority, I believe you get a better perspective of the game sat higher up.

Tell me a manager who has had success doing this? 
He came to this club with a reputation of being an organiser, a motivator etc. He needs to show us this down on the pitch. 

[big dosser]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Hate to say it but that's horseshit. Did you see the state of them at the final whistle on Saturday?

There's many things still need fixing but committment to the cause ain't one of them.

made i laugh if you think 15mins in all the games we played is good enough,commitment is week in week out for every minute your on the pitch.and just rembember barnsley missed 2 bloody sitters

[pillred]

8 hours ago, fluffy said:

The thing that concerns me the most is we have a total lack of movement on the field. No one moves to make an angle or different option for the player on the ball, no one moves to receive the ball from a throw in, no one moves for the second ball when a move breaks down and on the odd occasions when we break no one is busting a gut to get up with the player on the ball.

All this should be coachable and something that they practice again and again at the HPC, so that they can repeat it at will on the pitch. 

Instead I shudder to think what they are practicing each day at training, as it's certainly not improving our performances or coaching out the same basic errors that we see over and over again.

We're stuck with an unbalanced squad, low in confidence and seemingly motivation, so I would focus on a few basic shapes to adopt with or without the ball to make us hard to play through and pick players who want to earn their wage by showing some fight from here on.

It's basically a simple game but my god lately our lot make it look hard, your right when one of our players is in possession the other players should be looking to give him options by backing him up preferably in a position of advantage, we seem to spend far too long chasing the ball only to lose it within a few passes as most of the time they have nobody to pass to, running off the ball is one of the most important things and our lot just aren't doing it enough.

[fgrsimon]

7 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Shouldn't Pearson be good at that?

Yes, surely any coach worth his salt should be able to send out a team to grind out a 0-0 away from home? Not at Fulham, WBA or Bournemouth but at say Birmingham or Coventry for instance. 

[Garland-sweden]

Its no quickfix. We got the players that we got. We have to fight and hope we can win some games. Since Eliasson gone We have no winger and Dasilva is no lb. Bring a winger and a left back i january.

[Garland-sweden]

Since Eliasson left we have tried with COD, he is not half the player Eliasson is and it have not worked out.

[Oh Louie louie]

I dont mind us losing, having a go.

Last two away games waved the white flag.

Our last three wins, chucking in three at pboro, the last minute goal at qpr, barnsleys crap finishing.

I dont wish to moan on here all the time but those 3 wins everytime i thought we were lucky to win that.

A convincing win would be nice for once.

Not many easy games at this level i know.

[LondonBristolian]

20 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Feel like for us to bring in a centre mid in January we will need to move 2 on.

Considering we have quite a small squad, we're actually bloated in that position.

Massengo, James, King, Bakinson, Palmer, Scott and Williams can all play there (admittedly Scott and Palmer suited in different roles more).

But convincing a CM to join when there's already 7 players who can go in that place won't be easy.

That's before considering a central O'Dowda too.

The fundamental problem - and I think it is one criticism that can be validly levelled at Pearson (although I don't know what was available)- is we have seven or eight central midfielders but none of them suit a holding midfield role. Massengo, Williams and Scott in particular could do with someone sitting so they can roam freely without the midfield losing its structure. At the moment that is James but I'm not sure that is his game.

I agree we might need to find a way to move - say - Palmer and Bakinson out on loan to get someone in. Of course that might not be easy.

[GrahamC]

24 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The fundamental problem - and I think it is one criticism that can be validly levelled at Pearson (although I don't know what was available)- is we have seven or eight central midfielders but none of them suit a holding midfield role. Massengo, Williams and Scott in particular could do with someone sitting so they can roam freely without the midfield losing its structure. At the moment that is James but I'm not sure that is his game.

I agree we might need to find a way to move - say - Palmer and Bakinson out on loan to get someone in. Of course that might not be easy.

Hard to base it on much seeing as to how little he’s played, but I think Williams can play this role & maybe in light of his injury issues, it might be best for him to do so when fit?

If he can then stay fit & King returns as a squad option, then I think we’ll look a better side, not perfect but with enough to avoid the bottom five or six.

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Hard to base it on much seeing as to how little he’s played, but I think Williams can play this role & maybe in light of his injury issues, it might be best for him to do so when fit?

If he can then stay fit & King returns as a squad option, then I think we’ll look a better side, not perfect but with enough to avoid the bottom five or six.

That's a good point. Whenever I've seen Williams, it's been without Massengo and he's been the most mobile of the midfielders but it might well be that he could sit if Massengo was in the midfield too. I certainly agree that a fit Williams plus King as an option will give us a much better chance of getting the results to stay out of trouble. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

That's a good point. Whenever I've seen Williams, it's been without Massengo and he's been the most mobile of the midfielders but it might well be that he could sit if Massengo was in the midfield too. I certainly agree that a fit Williams plus King as an option will give us a much better chance of getting the results to stay out of trouble. 

The only time all 4 made the 18, was QPR, coincidentally a game where we had a bench where we felt able to bring Martin off before he was knackered.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Davefevs

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The only time all 4 made the 18, was QPR, coincidentally a game where we had a bench where we felt able to bring Martin off before he was knackered.

That was a game where we really saw what we've missed with Semenyo and Massengo. Neither had fantastic games and both were a little wasteful on occasions but they were the reasons we could burst forward and relieve the defence when under pressure (and ultimately that ability to break was obviously what got us a winner). 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

That was a game where we really saw what we've missed with Semenyo and Massengo. Neither had fantastic games and both were a little wasteful on occasions but they were the reasons we could burst forward and relieve the defence when under pressure (and ultimately that ability to break was obviously what got us a winner). 

Very good point.

We ended the 90 with more pace than we started it.

Swap Simpson on the bench for Vyner or O’Dowda and it’s probably full-strength(ish).