Pearson-ball v Martin-ball

[stephenkibby.]

Talking about this league, and it was al done and dusted. Nice to see it's closing up for a minute and teams like Blackburn and QPR can mount a challenge.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

Yes.

If we end up in the same place then doesn't it stand to reason we should want to get there in the nicest, most attractive way possible?

If the destination is the same same I'd rather take the  leafy scenic route, stop at a lovely canalside pub, and enjoy the sunshine...over sitting grimly on the monotonous asphalt of the motorway before cramming a ginsters into my gob in a layby.

Would take longer to get there though… this analogy needs more stretching. 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Would take longer to get there though… this analogy needs more stretching. 

Not necessarily. Depends where you start from, are there roadworks on the M5? Basically if you start where Ashton left us, and have to pack Kasey Palmer...then I still reckon the scenic route is quicker.

Edited December 11, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[B-Rizzle]

13 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I enjoy the wins and hate the losses as much as I always have. The second half today I really enjoyed. Have I enjoyed watching city more in the past? Yes, because we’ve had better players.

I’m also happy to give this manager time to develop the team and not throw my toys out the pram because it’s currently not my preference in terms of playing style. 
 

 

You’re willing to give this manager time to develop what? He’s developing naff all and showing no signs of doing so either. And, he’s had plenty of time to start doing so.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, B-Rizzle said:

You’re willing to give this manager time to develop what? He’s developing naff all and showing no signs of doing so either. And, he’s had plenty of time to start doing so.

Not much money though cos some other pair of ******* blew that.

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

You’re willing to give this manager time to develop what? He’s developing naff all and showing no signs of doing so either. And, he’s had plenty of time to start doing so.

The point is the Manager is here for a while. If you hate what is happening at the club that much take a break perhaps? Because one thing I can guarantee is we are a medium term fix.

[B-Rizzle]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Not much money though cos some other pair of ******* blew that.

Not really about money. He’s a football manager/coach who doesn't appear  having much impact on coaching players or managing a football club in a cohesive direction.

[B-Rizzle]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

The point is the Manager is here for a while. If you hate what is happening at the club that much take a break perhaps? Because one thing I can guarantee is we are a medium term fix.

Haven’t said I hate it. I’m just incredibly uninspired - probably more so than any other time in my 20+ years following City.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, B-Rizzle said:

Not really about money. He’s a football manager/coach who doesn't appear  having much impact on coaching players or managing a football club in a cohesive direction.

He’s working with a crap squad let’s be honest but looking at what he has brought in it is a mixture of experience for the here and now (James and King) and potential (Tanner and Atkinson). He’s playing 18 year old kids because they are better than what we have. It’s a big job to turn us round and if you haven’t noticed ANY improvement over the last few weeks then the saying “none so blind as them that won’t see” comes to mind. It’s not great but go back 8 months or so and it was ******* appalling, we weren’t even COMPETING in games.

[petehinton]

Russell Martin is one of the worst things about ‘modern’ managers. Talks and acts like he’s invented the game at a club who’ve been playing that style for years before him. So much fluff in interviews it’s unreal. fundamentally a lot of possession and no goals = dull to watch. 
 

Side note after their pasting by forest today - what a job Steve Cooper is doing there btw. 

[B-Rizzle]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He’s working with a crap squad let’s be honest but looking at what he has brought in it is a mixture of experience for the here and now (James and King) and potential (Tanner and Atkinson). He’s playing 18 year old kids because they are better than what we have. It’s a big job to turn us round and if you haven’t noticed ANY improvement over the last few weeks then the saying “none so blind as them that won’t see” comes to mind. It’s not great but go back 8 months or so and it was ******* appalling, we weren’t even COMPETING in games.

Fair point about the improvement on a few months ago. I guess my point, more accurately, is that I’ve not see enough improvement to give me belief in him for the long run.

Hope I’m wrong though and I acknowledge that he’s not had a lot of money to invest.

I guess part of my frustration is at those above him and the direction they have taken us in over the last 18 months.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Russell Martin is one of the worst things about ‘modern’ managers. Talks and acts like he’s invented the game at a club who’ve been playing that style for years before him. So much fluff in interviews it’s unreal. fundamentally a lot of possession and no goals = dull to watch. 
 

Side note after their pasting by forest today - what a job Steve Cooper is doing there btw. 

Interesting interview with Cooper, basically said Forest let Swansea have the ball in certain areas. Makes the possession stats utterly worthless. People jerk themselves off over stats and forget to apply perspective.  Look at @Davefevsheat map of where Derby had their 65% possession last week and you then realise why Bentley walked off without a spec of mud on his gloves.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, B-Rizzle said:

Fair point about the improvement on a few months ago. I guess my point, more accurately, is that I’ve not see enough improvement to give me belief in him for the long run.

Hope I’m wrong though and I acknowledge that he’s not had a lot of money to invest.

I guess part of my frustration is at those above him and the direction they have taken us in over the last 18 months.

Don’t get me wrong, I can see the same things you are seeing. We are a tough watch and Pearson bluntly admitted that today. I think he feels the message is taking longer to get through to some than it should be. I would love to see us playing some great football later in the season but I just think it will take far more hard work than that to get us sorted.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

45 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Not necessarily. Depends where you start from, are there roadworks on the M5? Basically if you start where Ashton left us, and have to pack Kasey Palmer...then I still reckon the scenic route is quicker.

A lorry has hit a bridge in the Cotswolds, Derby style tippy tappy around our own penalty area is all we can muster. 

[redsquirrel]

its not just the football quality is it. am i wrong in thinking hes done a lot behind the scenes sorting out other staff and way things are done? add in whatever happened last month and his health issues,since hes been here  a lot of changes have happened,changes he probably couldnt do much about until ashton was gone.

point im trying to make is as numero uno points out,the players are playing now to the best of their ability,  also a lot of other work has been done which we dont see. hq couldnt have done that without help or guidance,where did that come from if it wasnt nigel pearson?

[IAmNick]

I think it's an interesting comparison/question.

If Martin has come into a club already set up how he wants to some degree, with a decent number of appropriate tools at his disposal, and yet is doing no better than Pearson where it matters I don't know if I'd prefer that.

You have to think longer term - it implies to me that we might have a higher ceiling, and Pearson has more to change to be where he wants. I don't actually care that much about the style of football while we're at the very start of our transition... I more care about our destination. Yeah it'd be nice to see it along the way, but not at the expense of what we're trying to do. I think that's partly where Lee fell down - wanting to have his cake and eat it too... or rather not a clear idea of what the "now" and the "future" need to look like, and how they differ.

Gotta say I'm also a bit sick of the thought that slow, possession, and passing based football is the summit we all should strive for. Quick, direct, aggressive, attacking football can be really exciting (dare I say it sometimes Cardiff at this level as an example) - much more than some other styles.

Edited December 11, 2021 by IAmNick

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

A lorry has hit a bridge in the Cotswolds, Derby style tippy tappy around our own penalty area is all we can muster. 

Oh no. I am stuck in Stow-on-the-Wold. How jealous I am of all those queuing on the Avonmouth bridge as I enjoy the sandstone cottages and cosy pubs. Such a shame I took the Fosse Way.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Why not?  It’s sparking discussion. I’m trying to work out whether pretty football but same results is more important.

Style of play and results have always been a beef with me since the one dimensional GJ - good results but soooo dreary to watch……..……

Clearly the best balance would be thrilling football and positive result ala Liverpool but that’s not been seen at AG since the days of Peacock,Tinnion, Murray, Bell et el. Hopefully within the next 2.5 seasons Nige will have created a squad that’s capable of and actually gets us promoted to the PL unlike DW…………

[Wiltshire robin]

52 minutes ago, petehinton said:

 

Side note after their pasting by forest today - what a job Steve Cooper is doing there btw. 

Crazy isn’t it, if you had asked me a year or two ago to choose between Cooper and Hughton I would of been 100% on hughton . 
 

 

[IAmNick]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Style of play and results have always been a beef with me since the one dimensional GJ - good results but soooo dreary to watch……..……

Clearly the best balance would be thrilling football and positive result ala Liverpool but that’s not been seen at AG since the days of Peacock,Tinnion, Murray, Bell et el. Hopefully within the next 2.5 seasons Nige will have created a squad that’s capable of and actually gets us promoted to the PL unlike DW…………

I thought GJs football was uncultured but still sometimes exciting to watch personally. Going to AG was at least more enjoyable for a year or two during that period than any time since, only Cotts L1 season might match it.

Your hero DW would have had to get us promoted to the Championship first before he could even think about the PL though so not sure why you're mentioning him 

[054123]

2 hours ago, Henry said:

It’s just a bit ‘comparing apples and bananas’ and ‘if my auntie had a set of balls’ type stuff. 
 

You’re better than that.

Why is it do different? I don’t understand.

[Robbored]

15 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I thought GJs football was uncultured but still sometimes exciting to watch personally. Going to AG was at least more enjoyable for a year or two during that period than any time since, only Cotts L1 season might match it.

Your hero DW would have had to get us promoted to the Championship first before he could even think about the PL though so not sure why you're mentioning him 

Definitely so………

As for the last paragraph - sure he failed to get us up but provided the most exciting football in the last 20+ years. Shame Miller missed that tap in at the County ground………….

[mozo]

14 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Easy question to answer.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?

After watching this for the past few years, it's a resounding yes from me.

On a serious note, we were never in the same position when Nige took over. We were desperate for a strong man to come in and rebuild the Club not just the team
Could Martin have done a better job, we'll never know, but I have my doubts.

Yeah I'd prefer to watch the Swansea style. We have a tradition of playing football the right way. The fans used to demand it, and it's a sign of the times that whilst we're positioned exactly where a club of our standing belongs, we've had to accept a more pragmatic, arguably flawed style of play.

Edited December 12, 2021 by mozo

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

13 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

You’re willing to give this manager time to develop what? He’s developing naff all and showing no signs of doing so either. And, he’s had plenty of time to start doing so.

Plenty of time to start doing so, but, with what?   Players that have been left demoralised by previous so called coaches and a useless medical team all lead by a so called CEO whose only interest was himself. Wake up and smell the coffee!  This mess will take a long time to be resolved and I would sooner have some one experienced like NP than a young up and coming coach who can't see what rubbish he has to play with. Even Colin, who has a good track record of sorting wayward players out, would struggle with the situation here.

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

Definitely so………

As for the last paragraph - sure he failed to get us up but provided the most exciting football in the last 20+ years. Shame Miller missed that tap in at the County ground………….

He didn’t. Cotterill did.

But you keep boring on with this myth.

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He didn’t. Cotterill did.

But you keep boring on with this myth.

It might be a myth in our opinion Graham. Style of play is subjective and imo the most enjoyable spell of attacking football in the last 20+ years was under DW.

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It might be a myth in our opinion Graham. Style of play is subjective and imo the most enjoyable spell of attacking football in the last 20+ years was under DW.

Utter horseshit.

I could say that in my pomp in Sunday Regional League 3 I was a better player than Thierry Henry but it would still be complete bollocks, even though it is an “opinion”.

Cotterill’s team scored far more goals, won far more games & gained far more points than Wilson’s unprofessional collection of pisshead underachievers. Cotts’ team clearly attacked better therefore & it was also done at the same level.

That’s not opinion, it’s facts.

[steviestevieneville]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, exactly that, it’s comparing two different types of football.  The only analysis in the thread is that two teams are on the same points.

Im interested in peoples view as to the importance of one over the other.

Yep, I’m not that fussed by the style itself…I’ve seen entertaining hoofball and boring tipi-tapi, and vice versa.  I think you can be entertained in many ways, sometimes by lovely attacking football, but I can also get satisfaction what watching a well-structured defender thwarting their opposition.

There’s been a few in recent years that play like Swansea did under Brendon Rogers ish that got promoted . None more so than Norwich . We all love that type of football although I like teams that can mix it up if needed, Brentford being the prime example . 
I was always impressed by the Steve Bruce hull side that beat us at home. Powerful & uncompromising . Very good at set pieces in both boxes. It’s not my ideal style of football but I think you definitely need that to get promoted from this league . 

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Utter horseshit.

I could say that in my pomp in Sunday Regional League 3 I was a better player than Thierry Henry but it would still be complete bollocks, even though it is an “opinion”.

Cotterill’s team scored far more goals, won far more games & gained far more points than Wilson’s unprofessional collection of pisshead underachievers. Cotts’ team clearly attacked better therefore & it was also done at the same level.

That’s not opinion, it’s facts.

Opinions are often subjective and my opinion on DW is exactly that. The fact that you think my view on DW is horseshit is irrelevant.

I know that the greatest enjoyment I had at AG in the last 20+ years was under Danny Wilson. The link play between Tinnion and Murray was an utter joy and I haven’t seen any comparison since.

The play off against Hartlepool at AG was the most thrilled that I’ve been at a match and I’ll never forget the roar when Roberts jinked thru to bag the winner and the Dolman shook - anyone who was there will remember that.

 

[steviestevieneville]

14 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

You’re willing to give this manager time to develop what? He’s developing naff all and showing no signs of doing so either. And, he’s had plenty of time to start doing so.

Honestly . One of the most clueless opinions I’ve read