Red-Robbo

Any idea what's going on with the port vale fans and players at the end?

 

 

Mass suicide?

Yeovil just let in a last minute equaliser, after Schmeichel hit the crossbar with a header!

 

 

Shame 

 

Still, holding the leader leaders away to a draw is still very commendable.

El Classico

 

 

El Brassico, more like 

Rovers have a game away at Pompey, plus I believe Rovers have slightly worse form!

 

 

That's true, but my Pompey mate seems to think the club is imploding.

The gas are going down and now you better believe us

 

 

Sadly I think Pompey and Torquay have their names on that particular ticket.

 

Why can't it be 4 down!!!

I see Yeovil are out the relegation zone. Well done Gary!

What a game to miss!

 

Still, I can say that although I'm sat in a dull office in a different continent, I'm thoroughly enjoying this        

In the right places at the right times - Which is an improvement. Williams was the pick of the defenders today IMO but Nosworthy was solid.

Et tu, Nige?

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-asked-about-using-taxpayers-money-to-employ-former-mistress-annabelle-fuller-9186689.html

I can agree on the first part of that statement Robbo, I hope this team continues to get us away from trouble, no fan wants to see us relegated again and having lived through back to back (to back) relegations before, I can tell you it's incredibly demoralising.

As for the second part, If anyone reads my posts they probably think I am a stuck record, but I have to question how much longer we can keep putting off the long term plan (LTP). It seems like the worst kind of procrastination, the LTP always seems to be starting tomorrow until we seem to start fire-fighting again.

I can see from the replies to my comments in other threads that people think I am "an apologist for SOD" that's not true really (probably more of an apologist for DMC but that's another story), the point that I am trying to get over (very badly it seems) is that we do need a LTP and we need to commit to it sooner rather than later. my main issues are with the board who apparently laid out the LTP twice, they talked about investing in youth with the current Manager the week before they sacked DMC. and introduced the "5 pillars" in the month before they sacked SOD. They then completely backtracked on those 5 pillars, bringing in a Manager on a long term contract and signing players who will have little or no sell on value.

Despite what people might think I don't have an issue with Cotterill as such, but right at this moment he hasn't done anything to suggest he is the man who will help build a lasting legacy built around our own youth development, that will give us a firm footing for the future, quite the opposite in fact.

It might be that he signed the players he has because he felt that he needed old heads to get us out of the relegation zone, it might be that we will start next season with a fresh young looking side full of potential prospects, and that they will be given every chance to develop even when things go wrong, I hope that's the case, but I am doubtful that it will be. Please prove me wrong SC, I want to see something that gives me hope for a long term future not just something that gives me jam today.

I don't think we've abandoned investing in youth, PSR. Aren't our U21 team enjoying some very good results?

The thing that would really threaten any sort of long-term plan would be relegation to L2. The mass departure of anyone half decent would make a drastic impact on team cohesion. The reduced revenues could seriously threaten our youth set-up.

We're not out the woods yet, but I think we have put it in our hands to stay up, rather than depending on other's results.'

Massively significant win.

Time for a cider, I fancy...

Today: Red Robbo's BBC interview Nigel Farage on the upcoming BBC televized debate with Nick Clegg....

 

 

 

If it was "my" BBC it would be a **** sight different, Gobbers!

Shall we ask an unrepresentative sample of Nottingham Forest fans for their approval every time we appoint a new manager?

 

After all, they are known for their understated humility and sound judgement - like singing "one-nil to the famous club" seconds before we equalise. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I had a look at that thread 

 

4 people said he was a good manager - that's it. The vast majority simply said he did what he had to, but glad he's gone / poor football / bad decisions. There are 9 people who just outright disliked him.

 

So of the 22 posts that actually commented on him - 4 liked him and thought he was a good manager - so 18% ? 

 

18% thought he was a good manager

82% thought he was a poor manager ( and they are roughly evenly split between - poor but got the job done and bad good riddance)

 

That's the man we have in charge

 

 

 

TBH I'd settle for poor but gets the job done. Anything to stop our plummet towards the bottom like a stone.

 

We can assess the long-term next season.

"We have improved results wise 55% under Cotterill which is as good an improvement as we could have expected."

 

Steve should change his Blue Stratos cologne for some 'Sex Panther' by Odeon, 60% of the time it works...every time.

 

And it's made with bits of real Panther.

 

See what i did there?

 

 

But can he play jazz flute, cider_dog?

Is anyone actually taking a note of these cock measurements?

 

 

I did apologise for the extreme length.   ;-)

But to not take a look at W Elliott even ONCE in a live game this season?? No sorry, that's completely irresponsible.

Simply, he's playing our two best CBs as full backs. Playing two CBs together that don't complement each other in the slightest, and playing our best LB as a winger.

He's done it 3 games on the trot and its resulted in 2 shit performances and needs to stop. And drop Barnett please.

Can't argue with your last two-thirds Kid. Said the same myself.

Two separate things: 1) because you were hyper critical of SOD yet now defend Cotterill from criticisms that roughly equivalent. 2) because you complain about the endless SOD v SC roundabout yet are one of the principal posters who causes it.

I haven't taken any umbrage I just generally respond in kind.

There was a poll on here prior to his appointment that had a sample size more than large enough to be reliable that made it clear that appointing him was opposed by the majority. Not that he wasn't the first choice, people actually saying NO to him beinb manager. The "we'll see how he does" sentiment emerged after it was a fait accomplit, as would be expected from fans given they can't change it. The consequences of appointing someone objected to like this are obvious - the complete lack of a honeymoon period and no real tolerance from fans who have in the main given other managers time. I think this is the reason there is no unity / siege mentality at AG, and a huge amount of malaise.

Every potential appointment will have some objectors but few will have a clear majority objecting. Warnock is divisive in a different way - he polarizes. You either despise him (me) or love him. Probably this is in roughly equal measure.

The nonsense things he says sometimes are there but not really what I mean. When I listen to him being interviewed I find all kinds of warnings going off in my head. The same kind I get from a tactless salesman. It is very hard to get behind someone you dislike and I find him dislikable. I think a majority of people do, but that is anecdotal.

I haven't really commented on how he manages the team as it is too early but concerns are there. What I am more worried about though is the long term change that I believe is fundamental to any decent future the club might have is in my opinion at risk with someone like Cotterill in charge. Whilst relegation would be a complete arse, I'd take it if it was a consequence of a series of changes that meant a healthier club five years from now as opposed to scraping by and bumbling along at this level making a huge loss for five years. I believe SOD was working for the long term hence why I was disappointed to see him sacked. I believe Cotterill thinks no further than this weekend (and would do even when not in a relegation battle).

 

 

Well, I think you're being unfair on that first point. I supported the appointment, and continued to support his retention as manager long after many had given up on him. Finally, what made me abandon my support for the guy, was that he was sold to us as a "great coach" and coaching has been in my opinion some sadly neglected here. However even many months in we were getting worse at defending set pieces, the organisation just was chaotic, our corners were pathetic, my personal bugbear throw-ins hadn't improved and many players - Joe Bryan and Greg Cunningham to name but two seemed to be going backwards in their development. Allied to that the results and he lost my confidence. I recognize some good qualities in the man although I never thought he was quite as "deep" as his devotees thought. The pseudo intellectuals' pseudo intellectual, perhaps?

 

Now I might've made jocular references to his dull voice and constant sniff, but one thing I didn't do was call him thick, an idiot, a clown, a bullshitter, a penis. All things Cotterill has been called on this thread! So to say I have been guilty of referring to SOD in the same way SC is being abused is wide of the mark. SOD's interview demeanour didn't bother me either.

 

On your second point, yes maybe I have spoken about that time too much. I'm trying not too, because it's got tiresome, but mea culpa to leaping in on occasions. I obviously had to mention my attitude to him here to try to explain that my opinion of him was not the sort of deep animus some here feel for SC.

 

As to that survey, I really don't think you extrapolate something that maybe 200 people voted in and say it applies to 10/20,000 people. I never think this board is reflective. It is a hothouse dominated by the strongly opinionated and the professional moaner. I read things on the board in support of SOD I've never heard on the terraces or the pubs. Plus I don't recall that poll having a don't know option. That's where I was and am, and I suspect the majority of supporters fall into that group.

 

To be fair to you, you've always stated you'd hate Cotterill  to come here and have been 100% consistent. But while you may be ahead of the curve there, others are more sheepy characters swayed by the dire predictions of hoofball and no youngsters playing that were made at the time of the appointment. Not to mention the carefully selected quotes from Forest fans - as if we should give a shyte what they think.

 

Nick and Noggers are dealing with the assertions that no-one likes SC very adequately, so I have no need to continue this argument.

 

As you'd expect, I totally disagree with your last paragraph.

 

Anyway, you know what I think and I've pretty much said all I have to say about SOD. He's had nice things said about him by Brendan Rogers and Arsene Wenger I know, but what stand have they got ST's in?!

 

I hope we both don't have to carry on endlessly repeating ourselves on the same subjects.

 

Sorry about the long post. Can't seem to 'chop up' my response from this Kindle. And thanks for keeping it non-personal.

Yep not to mention his lack of due diligence when it comes to potential signings - funny thing is he dont mind telling everyone neither as he just cant keep his big job shut (see his comments upon Wade Elliot signing).

Im embarrassed he's the manager of my football team.

Precisely what sort of due diligence did you want for Elliott, RCB?

He wasn't an 18-year-old from Kazakhstan - he was a very well known player who Steve had worked with in the past. He'll have had a physical, but he didn't need "scouting".

Considering he seems to be the sole player to leave Bramall Lane with some credit, it has hardly been a disasterous decision.

You've spent 3 months arguing in a majority of your posts about our ex manager so the irony here is almost funny.

I guess I'll repeat it one last time for the hard of thinking but there is a big difference between already supported by a majority of the fanbase (something I didn't say), and objected to by a majority of the fanbase (something I did). They are not opposites.

Nibor: you are an intelligent guy and your posts often make sensible points - albeit couched in a dry, superior, slightly sneery tone, which has probably irritated more people than any post match interview given by any manager.

You say I'm a hypocrite because I've criticised O'Driscoll but post here that I am bored of the whole SOD v SC endless roundabout. That is - to use one of your favourite expressions - a category error. I'll express it plainly: Yes I've been critical of the last manager but I now think it's time for the whole debate to move on. I'm trying not to reference him. What is important is what's going on now at the club.

Now to the thing you took umbrage at - as you always do when someone challenges your assertions. You think Cotterill's appointment was a bad one and fair enough, you can take that view, although I think it's too early to judge.

Those two points that you use as "major reasons" why he was wrong for the club are very weak however. He is a "divisive" figure who was "opposed" by the "majority of fans". First up, how did you carry out this survey? I don't remember getting a ballot paper. It's fair to say, his appointment was opposed noisily by a number of people on this board, but you can't extrapolate that to the fanbase as a whole. I suspect if you'd walked around the Gate on Steve's first match in charge and questioned every spectator you'd find some people with strong opinions, but the majority would say "let's see how he does" or "can't be as bad as the last bloke" and some would probably say "Steve who?"

There were people who raised objections to McInnes "not experienced enough"; Millen "the cheap option" even Johnson "not proven at this level". I can't remember Alan Dicks' appointment but I imagine there might've been some consternation then. Being a "divisive figure" doesn't mean you are a bad manager. When Stoke appointed Pulis for the second time, there were fan protests outside the ground, but of course when he proved successful those fans who would "never go again" drifted back. Bloody hell! The popular choice on this board seems to be Warnock who has "divisive figure" engraved on his cufflinks!

You also state, he was a bad appointment because his public pronouncements made him difficult for some fans to like. Bloody hell, when have we heard that before?!

My initial post on this thread said that post-match interviews - conducted in the heat of the moment as it were - do often contain some doozies. And 'I'm a winner' falls into that category. But really it doesn't matter what people say - he could've grabbed the Mic and said I Am A Dalek for all I care.

What matters is how he manages the team. We both can agree that there are some causes for concern there.

Ah the old hypocrite's flounce. G'nite.

I've flounced back, Mr Tedium.

Good luck with your plan to ensure the manager is always supported by 51% of the fanbase. Perhaps when you buy the club you'll be able to implement this plan to democratically elect playing staff. Good luck with that one...

I think many would beg to differ. You've even carried on kicking the horse for three months after it died.

I agree it's pointless. You don't need to micro analyse what Cotterill says to get the impression it's bullshit however.

Thanks. I find people tend to read / enjoy posts someone has put a bit of thought into. I do certainly.

I said it was long, not enjoyable. Your posts are never that.

So, I beg to differ as to Cotterill's past. He is well regarded at Notts County and Burnley.

I can't be arsed to read your reply with this, since your last one veered from puerile characterisations of the manager to inaccurate statements about me.

Time this wanky thread was put to bed. Ta-ta.

If anybody was doing that it would indeed be just as hypocritical as your remarkable about face from vilifying the last manager to defending this one, or turning every thread into a dredging up of that particular history and then complaining about it.

His last and only success was at Cheltenham, 12 years ago. No theory involved in that fact. My prediction is that he won't succeed here. It's based on a lot of things not least the two points made above. It's obvious that nobody can know the future so I don't see why you make that point. The irony here is that even the cheerleaders for getting rid of the last manager can't find the confidence to predict success under this one. That's what happens with poorly thought through decisions.

It doesn't advance that hypothesis actually, that's an error of logic. It says divisive appointments are bad, unlikable appointments are bad and appointments which are both are terrible particularly in a relegation battle.

There's a big difference between appointing a manager more than half of your fans actually object to, and appointing a manager that is the top choice of less than half of your fans. Cotterill was the former, and because of that the fan base is anything but backing him despite our perilous position. There were any number of appointments we could have made that would have been far less objectionable. Likewise you confuse likeable and liked.

As for names, there were a number suggested at the time so please do go and read all those threads. It's moot now because the mistake is made.

I didn't vilify the last manager. I didn't like him and I thought he was bad for the club. However I think micro-analysing the post match statements of managers is pointless and a bit pathetic. I thought that in the past too.

Nice long post, Nibor.

You owe me a new keyboard, I just got coffee all over this one. Please refrain from absurd levels of hypocrisy in future!

I'm not judging Cotterill on 3 months as City manager.

 

I'd say the absurd hypocrisy is shown by those who bitched and moaned about quotes being taken out of context and character assassination of previous managers and are now happy to do so with this one.

 

As I said elsewhere, SC has been a success at some clubs, failure at others and somewhere in between at others. We don't know how he'll do here. You may have your theories, but you don't know.

 

Your post advances a hypothesis that I disagree with: namely that whoever is appointed manager needs to command some sort of majority support and that everyone has got to like them from the outset. Perhaps you can tell me which manager you have in mind who would meet these criteria?