spudski

If you sacked Manning, I wouldn't trust those in charge to put anything better in charge. 

Sooner JL and BT have no decision in who's coach, the better imo. 

That ain't gonna happen any time soon, so it's gonna be the same as we've had for years. 

26 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

I totally agree...as soon as I heard his first interviews, it was like he was reading from a coaching manual.

My fear is also he maybe one of these coaches that can deal with experienced pros that have achieved so much more. 

5 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

I totally agree with this post. Thank you.

I for one (and I know others) who have already taken the decision not to renew. I've supported City (like you), for many years, 62 and counting but I have rarely felt so disillusioned at the powers that be.

Neither JL or BT have the qualities, qualifications or experience to be in post.

Something must change, maybe SL needs to step in, regain control and put in place a few professional people who know what they are doing because the 2 mentioned above definitely do not...

 

I can't see that happening...they tried it with NP...and he rattled their cot. 

27 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I tend to agree and think that Nigel had the greater depth.  Maybe Manning will surprise us all. 

What experience can Manning give to young players, on how to be mentally strong against adversity on the pitch and when coaching at Championship level. Against better players and coaches. 

Who is going to be that experienced head/heads on the pitch. 

He's never done it and we won't have any players who have achieved anything either. 

It's barmy mentality to have a team full of young and athletic players with no experience, coached by someone who's done nothing. 

Which bit of that thinking makes any sense at this level?

9 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think that every player in the squad would want to do better and become better players  that is ambition. They have to believe that can achieve those ambitions - including maybe playing at the highest level. It is the job of the leaders in the club to nurture that belief and I find it disappointing that some on the forum, which I guess is representative of the fan base) are prepared to rubbish the prospects of a very talented 19 year old player making only his second sub appearance in a very demanding league.  There are always those who look at glasses being half empty. The games against West Ham and Forest showed that there is great potential in the squad.  It is wonderful what can be achieved with belief and positive reinforcement.

LM mentioned the mental strength of the players. So did NP. Who are they going to learn that mental strength from if you get rid of experience who knows how to deal with situations. 

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I did not want to see Nigel leave and I have reservations about Manning, but apart from that there are a lot of very young men who are caught up in the turmoil.  It cannot help to criticise so many aspects of the club, including the man who managed to get their careers launched.  I have always disliked managerial changes (apart from Pulis, who I really disliked) but we must never lose sight of the fact that we have a role to support and encourage the squad and those in charge of them. Delusion and promotion are sometimes close bedfellows, but belief can give people a massive lift - just what we need right now.

If you tell players they are good enough for top 6, and they aren't performing to that level, then I can't see how that is positive. 

All it does is create questions as to why you/we/ they aren't performing to that level. 

NP used to repeatedly say he needed the players to believe in themselves. 

We have had and have now a squad that is mediocre. Telling them they are better than that does nothing. They need to be told they need to improve and better themselves. 

1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said:

God help us if we find ourselves with a side full of Mehmetis and Cornicks.

For me Mehmetti is half the reason we look so poor at scoring. He flatters to deceive. Very little end product and at this level easy to defend against. 

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He needed Nige out of the way for his own career progression. 

He is now essentially in charge of the whole footballing operation. Manning picks the team (probably with BT's input) and takes the training, everything else is down to BT. 

Nige was standing in his way. As a traditional manager Nigel had more responsibilities than Manning does as a head coach. BT didn't like that. 

I think it's probably some sort of hang over from his own managerial career. If we would have got promoted under Nige then everyone's praising Nige. Now as BT has made all the decisions, if we get promoted under LM then BT gets the plaudits. He's determined to make people believe that he's not a failure is my synopsis. 

I am starting to think the same. It's all about BT now.

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Well he could hardly say that we were relegation material, could he.  The leaders in the club have to push the message that we are on the up. This should put pressure on players, managers and those hoping to break into the team. It may also sell a few more tickets. Please don't start canning a bloke because he is too positive!

There's being positive...and then there is delusion. He said they expected promotion this season. And put that as one reason why they sacked NP as they thought he wasn't getting enough out of the squad. 

Now Manning is dismantling a squad considered good enough for top 6. 

Cmon...its all delusional bollox being spoken by the Club. 

13 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If we are building towards the kind of team Tins described then it is not surprising that we have not finished the squad building yet. We are clearly a work in progress  although that is probably a permanent state of affairs for a selling club.

Yet they thought our squad was capable of top 6, full of experience, yet want to tear that idea up. Sorry but for me BT is full of BS.

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

The apparent sudden change in core philosophies with no one mentioning it is something I’ve highlighted and a concern particularly with regards to recruitment 

But the loss of experience is my biggest concern 

If LM doesn’t work out and we are falling with  a mixed squad of players for philosophies , and we go on a dangerous slide , we are likely to look very ‘vulnerable’ , if you rate experience at those sort of times.

And if you decide to twist , where do you go then , another young coach at a time of crisis , a firefighter ? , someone more experienced but with his ideas on philosophies ?

Im absolutely , praying he does,  (Work out) because ,otherwise , we could end up with a real mess here .

 

Its not his fault , but there’s actually a lot of pressure and reliance on Liam Manning to deliver 

It would be nice to know if they have a plan should it not work out , I wonder ........ afraid I doubt it 

 

 

It falls totally at BTs feet imo. He's put all this in place. 

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This was summer 2023’s plan!

I thought we had the same plan...when did it change? Has BT retracted this and put in a new plan? 

I thought Manning was brought in to continue this ' philosophy '...

BTs quotes on how we intend to play and recruit below.

It also makes me think it's him that wants all the older experienced players gone...and making sure his 'finds' in Mehmetti and Cornick are getting more game time. 

"Yeah, there will be money in the summer," Tinnion continued. "We'll be in a position to buy players like Anis Mehmeti. There won't be any players coming in that are on the down. They'll all be on the up, they'll all be young, they'll all be athletic, they'll all be able to run because that's what our team is going to be based on now. We're going to be an athletic, young, physical running team."

"There are some really good players in League One that just need the opportunity. What we're looking for is players that have maybe played 200 games, they've got the experience but they just haven't had that opportunity to play in the Championship. We're very clear on what we want, we're very clear on the positions, and we're very clear on our targets so, hopefully, when the final whistle goes on that last day we'll be active."

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness, I’ve seen the likes of Taine Anderson training with the first team, so it must still be going on.  But it does make you wonder about the gap in the first team match-day squad.  If a player like Yeboah or Nelson is that far away, then I don’t believe in just giving up free places…although it can be used as a reward too.  So I think we are definitely seeing some change in thinking / focus.

Your point is definitely a valid observation and one to watch play out.

 

The Yeboah one does stand out for me Dave.

Considered ' good enough ' to play in the first team under NP who bloodied many... yet nowhere to be seen under Manning.

I can understand us having new signings and player availablity, but it has crossed my mind as to how much influence BT had/has on academy players being involved before...but now...it seems a lot less so being involved. 

Since his Technical Director appointment this have gradually moved away from the Academy pathway it seems.

The suspicious amongst us could maybe see a trait. 

The one thing that's crossed my mind re BT, is when he was in charge of Academy and loans, we seemed so focussed on player pathway, more involvement with youngsters in first team training and squad. Some being bloodied or on bench. A lot of focus was put on this. 

Then he moves up the ladder so to speak...and a lot of that has gone quiet. Less focus on that. Less players being part of training and first team squad on match days. 

More focus now on recruitment of players where he's now more involved. 

Coincidence?

Stanley Bowles. Once asked a ref, ‘What would you do if I called you a ****?’ Ref: ’Obviously, I’d send you off.’ Stan: ‘What would you do if I thought you were a ****?’ Ref: ‘I wouldn’t be able to do anything about that.’ Stan: ‘Well.. I think you’re a ****’.

I like and respect NP...I wouldn't spoil his retirement by asking him to work with this shower of shit in charge again.

Bloke doesn't deserve that. 

4 hours ago, italian dave said:

Yes, I think you’re right there. Although let’s not fall into a similar ‘everything Pearson good/everything Manning’ bad mindset either - we’ve still needed, and will still need, points post Pearson to stay up. 

I agree Dave, however for me the Club are going backwards in many ways.

No definitive CEO.

A Technical Director that is learning on the job, where his strengths are obviously running the Academy. 

A new Coach that has no real experience, definitely not at this level and has achieved nothing.

And experienced older players who have won the Prem leaving.

We are left with literally no experience and knowledge at a higher level and no experience on how to achieve it. 

I don't trust JL, BT or LM to take us forward...imo, we have every reason to get worse. 

26 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Nice summary as always @Olé.

Just some random thoughts from me.

A @BigTone style ‘condensed version’ might be “they wanted it more than we did”. That was my over-riding impression.

I don’t know why we started with an unfit Pring, given that Roberts has been decent recently. Physicality maybe - we certainly struggled with Wednesday’s.

I’m not sure Sykes was also unfit (as has been suggested elsewhere) - he took a very heavy knock from a nasty challenge (unpunished, as many were by the ref) and seemed to struggle after that. And, as when he picked up his last injury, LM seemed to struggle with how to replace him. Admittedly options are limited now - we will miss Bell I fear.

I thought Wednesdays first goal was a really good one, and more down to their good play than our bad. I think there was an element of good fortune with their second!

We seemed intent on playing everything wide second half, and I didn’t really understand why. We didn’t try to mix it up as we usually do. Not sure why.

Having said that, I felt TC got more and more ineffective (from a fairly low bar to start with) as the game went on. It’s not just about service; he gets that. It’s scraps, but that’s the case for most strikers at this level. He just lacks the physical presence or the guile - and I don’t know whether his confidence is just shot, or he’s thinking about where he’ll be next year, but to me there are starting to Diedhiou style signs of going through the motions just now.

It was poor, no denying. But on another day we’d have been playing against 10 for a lot longer and from a healthier starting position and we’d have had a penalty, although we’d probably have missed! 

QPR and Wednesday both fighting relegation...they have everything to play for. Both their results are improving.

Meanwhile we bob about in mid table obscurity... hopefully enough points gained from NPs time here. 

In the back of their heads, some know they won't be here next year, others will know there is nothing riding on results now. 

Just now, petehinton said:

It amazes me that people think we ‘covered that’ by Tinnion becoming Tech Director. One person. Doing/overseeing the lot. 
 

They seemingly miss out that we lost Gould, and now apparently a football club of this size doesn’t need a CEO because we have a technical Director. 
 

It’s borderline mental. 

Totally agree.

Tins should be Academy director only imo.

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

I've just watched the post match interview and his body language shows him as a completely negative person. Looking down as he answers, mumbling rather than talking clearly. Not one positive reply, or comment along the lines of "poor today but we'll pick them up by next Saturday for a local derby".

And totally agree with your comment about being one of the lads. I remember as a seven year old, reading that the Wolves manager Stan Cullis only worked withe the players on a Friday. So asking my Dad why, he said that the trainer, the only coach on the books, worked with players all the week to get them fit and ready for the match, but that Cullis spoke on a Friday to wind them up to play like hell in the match. 

I agree 

1 minute ago, RollsRoyce said:

If we want young and upcoming, put King in charge. He will not be worse. In fact I am almost certain, he would have been a better choice post Pearson. 

But get Tinnion out

Tinnion is doing what anyone would do in his position. He knows he's landed on his feet, by unjustified means. He's now working with JL by making their positions easier to manage. Sadly he's not intelligent enough to realise his liked status by the fans is becoming very diminished. 

He's on thin ice with the fan base.  He imo, is a good academy director and should be still in that position. 

Having him and JL in charge is a recipe for disaster imo.

Both are scared of strong dominant men, who have achieved more and will ruffle feathers. 

Both come across as cowards. 

LM looks like a rabbit in headlights blaming seasoned players for his poor ideas. 

Being led by people out of their depth. 

This has relegation battle all over it for next season.