Silvio Dante

Yes, the processes answer was first and was pretty firm. The adaptability one came after and was a bit more woolly. Agree re Piercy

This level of tad.

I think it’s more that his fitness level sounds like it’s akin to someone starting couch to 5k from the sounds of it! Not an injury but just seems way below fitness level currently

Piercy asked the question on adaptability but I think the answer was skirted over a bit. I think at least there is some awareness re getting it wrong vs QPR but the “1 poor game in 20” and “it makes me laugh” are direct quotes I can’t see going down well.

He was asked in the presser re Twine. I’m amazed the follow up question wasn’t “So why the hell was he on the bench against QPR?”

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/liam-mannings-severnside-derby-press-conference/ Just a few highlights: - Says he didn’t get it right tactically against QPR - Against Sheffield was more around the basics and didn’t see much wrong with the gameplan. Team got too emotional and weren’t controlled - “It makes me laugh because 12 days ago everything was great” - Wouldn’t change any of his processes or the way he works - Thinks he has had to adapt because of the players but didn’t say much specific - Believes prior to the last two games there was only one poor performance out of 20 - Thinks some fatigue from the period just got through - Can give all the information to the players but they need to step up on pitch - Delighted with Dickie/Vyner generally and wouldn’t focus on last week - Stokes looking good in training- Murphy some way off and likely to be pre season next year “You’ll need to speak to the medical team” - Naismith in squad, Twine out, James a doubt

Personally, I’ll get my value from him on the pitch.

Anecdotally, and I know it’s grassroots, I’ve not known a year like this for call offs for sometime. The Avon Youth League are allowing extension of the season and pitches that are playable are so unavailable we’re seeing sides from South Bristol trying to hire our 3G at Sodbury. It’s absolutely mental out there trying to get games on and Taunton is a microsm of that at a higher level

I don’t overly disagree but I don’t think it’s binary. I don’t think the organ grinders are going anywhere, regrettably. So the question has to be whether Liam is doing/will do as well as anyone could, or whether someone else could reasonably do better. Just because he’s here, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t roll the dice if he doesn’t show enough to give confidence that he can do the job long term. The organ grinders got the appointment of Liam wrong. He’s a coach who needs to rebuild the squad to how he wants to play and is reticent to play youth (historically). Doesn’t make him a bad coach, but does make him an appointment not aligned with the clubs position and strategy. You either follow that path down and rip up your strategy for another reset, or you take a brave decision. I’ve got no confidence in Tinnion picking the next manager. But that in itself isn’t a reason to retain someone who seems to be the opposite of what the club wanted both short term (kick onto playoffs) or long term (youth development)

There’s the balance here isn’t there between the tangible (the points) and the intangible (my list). If I think he’s actually hit the intangibles but we end up winning 2 and losing 8 then the pressure may be too much (acknowledging if we lose 8 he’s unlikely to have hit my list). Conversely if we get 15 points but there are real signs of life, then I don’t think your analysis is probably fair. I do agree with Dave that he’s unlikely to go, come what may, unless we do go on a spectacular losing run. With that in mind I’m more concerned with what sets us up for how we feel next season - I saw Ian tweeted that he should get until October which to me seems illogical and the worst of all worlds. Either way, that we’re even having the discussion is pretty damning on Tinnion and Lansdown.

Agree, and they’re both sides of the same coin. It does all feed into the wider adaptability/playing to strength piece for me. I shied away from it as I think - and I think we agree - that Liam knows his ideal “destination” but his sat nav to get there is IMO a bit ropey!

In other threads, I’ve expressed the view that I’d give Liam until the end of the season and if things haven’t improved, I’d part ways (logic here being throwing money at something if there are major concerns it’s unlikely to work). However, the other side of that is that it has to be fair to say what that improvement needs to be. I’m not seeing this as a he “must win 9/12” or something like that, but just what needs to be seen in the remaining fixtures to give confidence that he is the right man. For the purposes of this, I’m trying not to go too generic (commitment) or things that aren’t going to change (principles of ball retention) but others welcome to do so. With that in mind, these are my top 3: - Game Management - to be fair, this could be 1,2 and 3. My largest concern about Liam to date has been his ability to “counter the counter” and it hasn’t improved. Being realistic, we aren’t going to steamroller teams for 90 minutes all the next 12 (and if we do the thread is null) and we’re going to have several periods where we’re not on top. In the context of alleviating concerns, that will be a good thing. I want to see us come out the other side of adversity. I want to see us adapt when the other team are on top. I want to see the tweaks in game. If that doesn’t improve - he’s toast. - Speed of Play - Liam isn’t going to move from the principle of ball retention, and that’s fine. If you watch the latest Robins Uncut, he makes the point about holding the ball too long or releasing too quickly and he’s spot on there. But right now we are holding the ball too long (both in terms of overall pattern and individually). It makes us easy to defend against, takes the excitement out of the game and is massively predictable. It doesn’t need to be less passes (it does need to be at times), but I’d like to see a marked improvement in this - Bravery - Slightly generic but to expand - in a recent match thread, a poster predicted that subs would be made on 60 minutes. It’s sarcasm, but true - and kind of linked to point one. Liam is very safe in his subs - like for like, certain time. If someone is having a mare, he should do a half hour sub. If they’re not following instructions, he should haul at half time. The only time I’ll mention Nige here is the Cov home game - he got selection there spectacularly wrong and we were getting battered. He made subs on 35 minutes. It was brave. It worked. I’d like to see signs Liam could do the same. My view is that Liam has a job to do to convince certainly myself and others - but if he gets number one right, then in his own words “that’s the biggest bit”

What performance?

Twitter, or X if you prefer is sometimes a source of good info. It’s also home to some batshit crazy people. And because I look at a lot of City content on there, I get things recommended in the “for you” section that are linked to the club. Leaving aside that it recommends Ian Gay on that basis, today it’s shown this in my “for you” tab. Now this isn’t a slight on Medube because he may end up having a decent loan spell, but this may be the most insane city comment I’ve ever seen on Twitter. Can anyone better it?

Could be a bit of both. Either way, it’s clear from the training split, record of playing youth to date etc that Liam isn’t a coach who is “all in” on the academy.

@Harry @W-S-M Seagull - sorry to interject in your argument but just a couple of points! Firstly, there are aspects to criticise Liam on, but I’m with Harry in that in no way is he a yes man (I posted as such on his appointment) - you don’t move clubs, leaving them quickly and move around the world unless you have a single mindedness and determination that means you want best for you - and that’s not a yes man characteristic. You can also see it in his interviews - and it’s worth looking up the interview with Wayne Brown when he left Oxford. He’s a bit of a bastard when he needs to be (which is good), and Yeboah would be in the first team reckoning if he wanted him. That single mindedness is probably a reason why he’s not playing him or other youth - he needs results so doesn’t risk it. And historically, he’s also not risked it, I’d then concur that Tinnion arranged the loan fully. Liams focused on the first team and as EY isn’t in his plans, I think he’d have a passing say at best as to where he went. The real important bit is in the bolded paragraph above. @Harry - you mentioned on another thread a post you did when Liam was first mooted and I re-read that last night (I’ll probably repost later as it’s well worth looking at in hindsight). The nutshell was that you weren’t convinced Manning was a fit, but you liked him as a coach. When you read that post again, and see how things have transpired, there were a lot of red flags which should have been evident had there been more due diligence by Tinnion and Lansdown. Stuff like the players for the system, the warning sign over the Dons success etc. What wasn’t mentioned was the lack of youth development at either job. The point here is if BT/JL missed all the flags you saw - it’s not beyond the realms they also missed that red flag as well. In short, why would Brian appoint a coach who didn’t support the academy? Because Brian, IMO, probably didn’t look closely enough at Liam and the “fit” on several aspects

I’d rather the ghost of Captain Sir Tom Moore than Mehmeti.

Kudos to those two blokes at “Stripes Bar” who are so focused on getting their beer that they’re resolutely not paying any attention to a goal being scored.

Btw Max congratulations are in order. I never thought somebody would beat @Never to the dark side for the length of a post title but you’ve done it.

Ian Gay right now:

Thats the nail on head isn’t it Pete? I think practically everyone acknowledges that if EY isn’t going to be involved then a loan to Bath is fine. The three points that people are raising: - Firstly, and most crucially, what it says about the pathway - particularly when you consider the first team/youth changed split since Liam took over, and his record to date of bringing youth through - That he physically won’t be able to train with the first team - despite some gloss that some are putting on it - because of the recovery time needed from his Bath and U18 commitments - That, from the admittedly small cameo, people don’t understand keeping Medube over him. All of those are totally valid. You can think it’s a good move for Ephraim in the scenario he’s in but at the same time express concerns over the bigger picture. But people are jumping to defend the club and not seeing that totally valid bigger picture. Not a meltdown. And if the (collective) forum is going to be accused of that every time we lay a bit of nuance on a situation then people need to think what a meltdown actually means!

I think you’ll find teams like Bath do train twice a week. And although they may not sometimes when they have games, in the current schedule, when up against Fulltime teams for promotion, they will certainly be doing so currently. Teams at Southern League train once a week. Conference South - undoubtedly twice as they need it for the fitness levels. But let’s say you’re right. And Ephraim is playing two games a week for Bath and one game for the U18s. He’s then got one training session with Bath and one with the U18s. So he’s got 5 days of football, three of which are intense and typically need a rest day after - so we’re already one day over. He may not be sat in a room. But if you think he’s training with the first team when he hasn’t been for the last 3 months with that schedule considered, I’ve got some beans I’d like to sell you.

Thanks for that. Always welcome reasoned and structured debate. You could possibly say which bits were rubbish and show your workings? Or is that, y’know, a bit more difficult than facepalms and single words because you don’t have anything constructive to say….

I think the thing that’s being missed here is twofold: - This isn’t a loan to Yate Town. This is going into a conference south promotion race with two games a week. Bath also train twice a week, and EY will be involved in the U18s Youth Cup. With that schedule there is no chance in hell that he’s training with the first team. I’m not denying the loan may be beneficial, but for people to say he can/will still train with us on a first team level - at anywhere near the point to accurately gauge/coach him is just manifestly incorrect. - And the second thing that’s being missed is very early in his reign, Liam cut down the training groups. The first team squad are training as the first team squad - there is less of the U21s or suitable 18s training (IIRC a poster who would know posted that here) - and a lot of it is patterns etc with extra lines on the training pitch. Want to know why less academy are involved on matchday? Because they’re getting less exposure in the week. No reason why that will change. On balance it is a good move for him - because he’ll be playing. But this isn’t “beef him up and let him train with the first team as well” - it’s out of sight, out of mind.

Without turning this into a Medube thread, I think they were surprised he was so way off the standard against QPR. Genuinely looked like a competition winner out there. So I think the intent was here and now but they didn’t do due diligence or scout properly to see if he could cut it. And again, when your teammates - who haven’t just seen you in that game but seen you in training - actively don’t pass to you, it’s a bit of a sign.