The Humble Realist

I think it was a complete holding appointment  until people knew more about how covid would impact finances etc. Dont forget when he was appointed no one had any idea when fans would return etc. In the end it was over 12 months. Was pre vaccines etc.

Point is...I think the club thought 'we wont go down' so it's a risk free appointment until we know more.

Obviously  if he had turned out to be amazing it would have been happy days!

Unfortunately...we may well have gone down but then by that point we were 6/7 months further into the pandemic and in came Pearson and ultimately we were fine .

What was particularly depressing that season is we had bottom of the league form for the last 42 matches of the season. I think we got 41 points (we won the first 4 I think). This effectively gave us a false league position for about 80% of the season as it turned out. To any neutrals we never looked in too much danger but to the fans we went through bottom of the league football, during a covid lockdown in the winter watching Robin's tv tell us all how great we were. 

A time I'm happy to forget both in and out of football. 

All this being said, as people have said Holden was very likeable.  Mainly because of his honesty which was so refreshing after LJ. Perhaps he was a bit too honest at times but I'm not sure many managers who had such a poor record would be as liked as holden was. I think we all wish him well. 

If you are sad enough to trawl through my posts you'll see plenty of times that I've knocked the club for various things that have been disappointed with in the past e.g. the way they handled the covid refunds.

However, credit where credit is due. They made the forum as open as they could last night, promoting it on the offical site and putting it on multiple streaming channels and I think over 30,000 people were watching on youtube at one point. 

This is a huge improvement on the previous era and i just thought it was good and fair to praise the club in this instance for making last night open, transparent and accessible. 

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

That was very very insightful.  All three speakers were excellent.

A summary:

1. Accounts out in the coming weeks.  £10m better off that last year but still a big loss

2. FFP no issue, as expected

3. City current report from Nige "could do better" but "on the right course"

4. Academy and club much more aligned

5. No players close to signing new contract.  Problem is that wages are dropping and players won't sign for less money, which the club has to offer in the current climate.  Gould says very hard to compete with parachute payment clubs as well

6. Question about how Euell is doing and how his role affects what Nige does.....Pearson said worked with Euell at Southampton, he's thoughtful, a forward which is important.  Curtis more of a talker, loyal....good to have different characters. 

7. Fan loyalty scheme being revamped and out by Xmas.  Very different to what we have seen before.  More than just discounts.....experiences money cant buy.  loyalty points can be earned by spending in other retail., over 150 retailers in total.  Gould apologised for delay

8.  Nige was asked why he always starts replies to questions with 'ummm'.  Said he is thinking about what he shouldnt say! 

9.  Will Gould leaving trigger a restructure, maybe a DoF?  Gould said it is an opportunity.  Clubs are structured in different ways.  Structure is currently good in that they know what they are doing.  Scouting systems and coaches scouting work well.  Nige says we dont need to reinvent the wheel.  We dont need something new just for the sake of it.  Sounds like he wouldnt want a DoF. 

10.  Why do we tend to struggle against big strong physical teams Nige?  "Because we arent a big strong physical team".  Nige said he would like to challenge teams like Millwall better but it will take time.  Need to be more clever.  We dealt with them, they didnt open us up but we lost because of two individual mistakes.  Too many individual mistakes still.  We dont have a squad that will ever be taller man for man.  We can only add one or two players as we go so even if we wanted that we cannot have it.  Got some 'monsters' coming through the academy so could change if they are good enough.  Nige says he tells Jay Dasilva to use his height (!)......Jay doesnt get beaten very often.  Some of our bigger lads could learn from him.  We have a lot of pace in the squad.  We have quick footballers.  That is the model. Swansea have conceded 40% of their goals to counter attacks so we have an opportunity. W

11. We can become more consistent by learning to draw games that we then lose.  Need enough knowledgeable players in the side to influence teammates to settle for a point.  If we had drawn half the games we have lost we would be just outside the play offs.  Very tight league.  Nige is an optimistc, we are not that far away.  We have only drawn three games and we have lost games we shouldnt lose, either through careless mistakes or royal cockups!

12.  Asked on Jan Transfer Window, Gould says not a lot to spend.  We have sold £20m worth of players per year in recent years.  Recent strategy is to target the best out of contract players.  We look to be in top 10 clubs in terms of salary spend so that is a sweet spot for us.  We are attractive in that market and that is the market we are targetting.  In the event we sell a player we will look to reinvest a percentage of that.  (Nige asked how much and was met with laughter).  No magic money tree.  Nige asks about money a lot but is onside with where we are. Nige doesnt believe in collecting players.  Would want a centre back.  Important to remember we only want better than we have.  Cannot fast-track.  Will not sign a middle of the road championship player.  Youngsters coming through.  Need a Naismith there to help bring players through, a position where if you make a mistake it will often prove costly, like a goalkeeper.

13.  League average of home grown players in squad last season was 2.5. Ours was 6.5-7.  We are in a good location, would be harder if we were a midlands club.  Our long term future is our academy.  Tinnion works closely with recruitment team on squad depths.  They will look at youth depth before Nige looks to sign a player.  We dont need to be a cat one academy as we can offer opportunities.  Fewer loans going out now as more chance for opportunity now.  No more days of 10-12 loans going out.

14.  On Loans.....130 Premier League players currently on loan to 72 clubs in EFL at cost of £30m.  Dont want loans that will block our own talent.  Question asked 'could one or two loans in Jan not push us over the line?'  Gould said 'yes if they can provide enough value....no value when they leave 6 months later.  Tammy and Andy Cole given as examples by fans there....and Ryan Kent!  Nige says the market has changed.  He has taken Cleverley and Lingard (who was disgrace) from Man United, Kane from Spurs but didnt play him as wasnt good enough.  Back in those days first 6 months on loan was free.  Nowadays you bring them in and they are earning twice more than anyone else at the club so doesnt work financially.  The game has changed.  Premier League Loan Managers are expected to turn a profit. 

15.  Question to Nige of do you ever look at reporters asking him questions and think 'why have you asked me that?'  Nige said he isnt good at hiding it!  Wears his heart on his sleeve.  He doesnt like lazy questions.  IF journalists ask intelligent questions then happy to ask all day. Their job is to ask difficult questions.  

16.  5-3-2 suits us.  We dont have full backs, we have wing backs.  Sykes been excellent.  Nige likes 2 up top which this allows.  All of our strikers are better in partnerships and we have players who like to play behind strikers.  We aren't yet a 'clean sheet side'.  The system is there as it suits the players.  Nige and staff had conversation today about benefits of changing it but comes down to the fact that this is the best system.  It gets our best players on the pitch.  Nige isnt a massive fan of 3 at the back but its not about him. 

17.  14 Premier League scouts at a recent under 16 games.  PL clubs can take our players on the cheap.  Need to get them signed on their 17th birthday.  The WSM player we signed this week came to the club and Tinnion showed him how many first team players are ex academy.  Wolves wanted him but he joined us.  Gould said he would never recommend Premier League academies.  England under 19 players had hardly any first team appearances....Scott has a lot.  Maddox and Herbie Kane both below City now after leaving early chasing the dream.  Lloyd Kelly stayed and look at where he is.  

18.  Awful at set pieces last season.  Last 6 games of the season we changed to zonal marking and it improved.  We have unreliable markers so we need to defend zonally. It suits the players that we have.  If we had more reliable markers we would do mixture of zonal and man-to-man marking.  Second goal against Reading was a quality ball in and no blame there.  The ones the two games before that are very irritating.  Many internal discussions on it and practised it and practised it.  Will continue to do what we can do board our goal up.

19.  World Cup plans for players not going will have time off then programmes to do in their own time then mini pre-season.  One practise game.  

20.  Tinnion says Cat One academy wouldnt benefit us. Couldnt loan players out as would need those players to play against the Prem academies.  Costs a lot more.  Lot more pressure.  Cat One can still take other Cat One players.  

Fantastic write up. Thanks 

6 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

All the counties have been having members meetings recently and are gauging members thoughts as we speak.

Its sounding like most counties are on the same page and there’s a lot of noise about actually reducing the 100 window. Either fewer games/teams or just condensed.

Apparently at every meeting it (The 100) has been the Elephant in the room. As @Northern Red says there’s a TV deal until 2028 which is the sticking point.

My thoughts are it’s obviously become so divisive and such a problem the TV contract should be torn up and a new one written where the Blast takes it’s place with as much advertising and money thrown at it and obviously shown on FTA tv. But what do I know? 

Yeah I would love to see it scrapped. 

What powers to the counties actually have to change the window/reduce the number of teams? Or is the thinking that people like gould have been appointed and they will drive the change (on the counties behalf)?

I wonder if the exclusive August window coupled with the strauss review has tipped it over the edge. 

It's at 12.

I know mistakes can be made but its shocking how often these minor but important mistakes are made. 

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's genuinely hard to say definitively, unfortunately.

We appear to be among the worst placed as it stands although there are several other candidates although 3 got promoted! I think some or all of Bournemouth, Fulham and Nottingham Forest would have had issues.

I hope we get updated in a transparent and honest manner, I was also hoping that 2021-22 accounts maybe out by tomorrow evening- still might of course!

Presumably either March/April 2023 when the in-season Projections go in, or next summer after our updated numbers from those March projections go in.

A January windfall would fix the issue instantly, as would a Webster or perhaps even Brownhill sell-on.

In theory, the season following the breach as with Birmingham and Reading. However I would suggest that on paper anyway, the EFL have the right to hand down an instant deduction in the Spring.

However:

Sheffield Wednesday

They were docked 12 points ahead of 2020-21 having been charged in November of 2019-20 for a breach in the 3 year period ending 2017-18. Covid played a part in the timeline here...(eventually halved to 6 on appeal in November of 2020-21).

Derby

Were initially charged in January 2020 so the season of 2019-20 for a breach in the 3 year period ending 2017-18- so much has been written about that but they eventually won their case in August 2020 so arguably ahead of 2020-21 while further wrangling went on during that season and they lost their appeal during that season. It dragged on during summer of 2021 into 2021-22 and I think the EFL even begun analysing their accounts for 2014-15 again to see if there was an overspend under the new criteria for the period ending 2016-17 (there was).

Agreed Decision eventually ratified in mid November 2021, proposed in late August 2021. Both 2021-22.

The periods covered by the agreed decision were:

1) 3 years of 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17

2) 3 years of 2015-16, 2016-17, 2017-18

3) 3 years of 2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19

4) Including Covid period, 2017-18, 2018-2019 and combined average of 2019-20 and 2020-21.

For that to go so far back be ratified in November 2021 is mental.

In theory yes, in practice probably not. I'd argue that the improved future monitoring powers pertaining to a potential future breach, and the EFL winning their case v Birmingham in 2020 about upholding the principle of an Absolute Obligation make it more valid now than in the past.

See all above, you'd think so but who knows! Plus we won't know until March at the earliest unless we agree to it before then.

It would likely by at the very worst 4 pts in our case..and perhaps half of that.

Besides our Projected losses for Covid may not align with EFL voted limits or indeed if we argue on a certain item, the EFL may view differently and a Disciplinary Commission could be needed for a determination? Which adds further time and uncertainty.

Thanks,  a real detailed explanation of something that is obviously very fluid. 

Good to know that even though its unclear when...between now and the spring things will step by step become a little clearer.

I guess we will.know a lot when the accounts are published 

A while ago there were a lot of concerns that we (and about half the league) wouldnt make the numbers to comply with FFP.

Hopefully there will be an update on our own position as the fans forum this week but what is the timeline for FFP?

In particular:

When will we know if we havent complied (officially)?

When might points deductions or punishments be handed out ?

Would points deductions apply for this season?

Surely if multiple teams were going to face points deductions the EFL would get on with it for the sake of the competition?

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

There's a broadcast deal for it until 2028 so they'll either have to continue with it in some form or come up with an alternative (franchise T20 most likely) to keep Sky happy.

Perhaps migrate the blast into the hundred? 

Bring in a franchise element e.g. a draft  for overseas players ?

I wonder how much 'peril' the mens hundred is in. 

Not a lot of news since the initial outrage from.counties after strauss review. 

Be interesting to see what unfolds once Gould is in. 

Every now and again Scott Davidson's name pops up. It was before my time but he seems to be remembered positively. 

Why is this?

How did he compare to lansdown (and other owners today)? Appreciate the game was different then but would be interested to hear 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-42350706

Talking of the underground....its going to be built in 5 years time.

This just highlights what absolute rubbish the plans were to begin with. 

Anyone can promise anything 'in ten years time'

Rees wont even be mayor at the end of 2024

We have an awful team for delaying the restart.

By that I mean little kicks of the ball when a foul is given , little tricks to be in between the player and the ball, picking up the ball so a player cant take a free kick.

Every team does it but I hate it..I'd much rather all teams cut it out but no one should pretend we arent as bad as most

Tonight playing in their third kit designed by ed Sheeran despite being at home. 

No doubt Ashton involved. 

To be fair they are doing very well in the league 

Glad to have him back and available for sure. Hes been missed. 

Probably his last season here unfortunately. 

3 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

Confusion 

We lost an uncontested drop ball!

What's the lyrics to the song the fans sing to the tune of one man went to mow?

Isnt the simple answer here that it was just a mistake by the defensive unit and a blooming big one. 

I think Kalas and Oleary should share the blame with neither being completely innocent or guilty. 

All season the defence had been littered with mistakes,  Naismith, vyner,  set pieces. 

It needs improving. I have no idea how vyner has played every game this season. 

25 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Lita not on the bench controversy...

Who out of Scotty M, Luke Wiltshire, semi final hero Marc Goodfellow or only defensive player Burnell should have been out of the 16?

It does show how strong our squad was though and we should never have lost that game against a very ordinary Brighton

This is my point...people talk about Lita like he had scored 15 goals that season. 

The final was a terrible match which tbh I dont think Lita would have made any difference in as we didnt exactly create a load of chances. 

Not sure I've ever seen Pearson be so scathing even though he has been scathing plenty of times. 

Even had a little pop at the club interviewer for trying to put a positive spin on a question. 

A big 7 days ahead 

Wilson, who I liked, is doing a lot of revisionist history there . We certainly werent unlucky...we blew up.

He has to take a lot of the responsibility for that.

As for Lita, its revisionist history for fans to say it cost us. Lita was still young. There were no clamour for him to be starting etc at the time. It may have been a fans choice to have him on the bench, he was quick striker for sure but the idea it cost us promotion is for the birds. 

Other than an utterly bizarre radio bristol interview on that day the rumour mill was in over drive about Pearson resigning gould has quietly gone about his job and from what I can tell done a good job.

So refreshing after the Ashton debacle to have a CEO who does his work quietly but effectively  in the background. 

1 hour ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

Few years before Trundle joined us they annihilated us 7-0 at the Liberty Stadium on their way to promotion from L1. Ive got a feeling he came to us in the close season of 2008 from a Swansea City side that had just been promoted to the Premier League.

Edit: Ignore….I’m talking shit on multiple counts and we lost 7-1

At least you're honest enough to own up!

Swansea have had quite the journey in the 2000s to be fair.

Were Swansea in league two (going into league one) when we signed trundle?

To be honest I dont think trundle was able to cut it in the championship at the time. He didnt score a huge amount of goals....he did score some big ones though! And they were often special.

JET for me. He was playing a different game to everyone else when on form (and a different game in a bad way when off form!). Of course we were in league one so standard was different to the others. 

Also...who else took a penalty like JET!

During the lockdown (which was obviously some of the worst times personally but also footballing wise) it was North Korea esq. 

When Louis Briton scored in the final game when we were losing 4 0 they went crazy like we had won the play offs and ended the season 'on a high'.

Was quite tinpot albeit I'm sure other clubs would be just as guilty .