Fuber

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nor am I…but trying to inject some positivity!

19 hours ago, CityReds said:

I can see him getting a new contract in the summer, on much lower wages and a 1 or 2 year term but I imagine his influence in the dressing room is huge for the team cohesiveness and morale. Much like Henderson is still around for England and Scott Carson at Man City

Would rather we didn't bother to be honest. I like Andi and he's been a great servant. But squad balance shows we need less runners and more players with greater technical ability for Manning's system to work.

11 hours ago, Harry said:

If you’re not prepared to give Manning time then what is it that you want? 
 

Because Pearson sure as hell ain’t coming back. 
So, if we sack Manning after we lose to Sunderland this week, what do YOU want to see? 
You’re giving a belly load of airtime to how much you don’t want this manager, so what is it that you DO want? Straight answer please, no waffly bollox. 

Not to speak for Seagull. But for me? - Eustace. On the assumption we're most definately not able to get Nige back. And kick out Tinns while we're add it if he was in fact an advocate of getting NP sacked, same for Jon.

Did well at Brum under strict financial conditions until the Bellingham windfall and Brady takeover and were the best coached team Ive seen at AG this season, and played a (more similar to NP) structured counter system that was not possession based. Actually has Experience playing and managing at this level.

Manning was a boneheaded appointment with regards to playstyle and timing. Do I want him sacked? - No. But in my view it'd be better for the club at this stage, as he doesnt seem to be at all flexible to the needs of the squad, who struggle in possession and technically.

On 10/12/2023 at 07:46, richwwtk said:

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

Add in LJs Tombola.

I hated Ashton's mannerisms, but with him poaching Probert he evidently actually had an eye for staff. The more time that passes and the better Ipswich do, the more I consider in contect that the buck starts to stop more with the ownership and LJ.

Still an ego-centric tit mind.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t let me have to have to go back to my LJ needing a Lenny Lawrence type posts of a few years back!

Seriously, that old head support is designed to be provided by Brian Tinnion.  It shouldn’t need another body, that’s part of Tins’s role.

Keep up - Ipswich Town.

I’m not putting 2 and 2 together, but Manning is with Refuel Performance Management.

Who are they?

Run by Scott Barron (ex-Ipswich player) who was at Ipswich with Manning, and Richard Lee (ex-Watford keeper / Dr Cap Dragons Den fame), who of course was a recruitment consultant for us under Ashton.

I ****ing hope not.

8 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

With regard to the "steady stream" of academy players ready for the first team remember, he only became academy in October 2021. Before that it was Gary Probert who was nicked by Swiss.

He was academy loans manager before that....

What do you mean our academy progression was only due to an appointment not by Lansdown(s)? Say it aint so!

(Appointed under Keith Dawe to Development Phase Coach, and promoted to Academy manager in 2016).

Thats surely an exception and all of SLs appointments have been stunning successes in his own periods of holding chairmanship(s) of the club.

(Silence)

....

...Right?

...
Right?... Guys?

7 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree that Gould did an important job and he was very much keeping things together. 
Re the summer 2023 bolded comment, I agree that there were some (such as yourself) who were already firmly with Nige but it was the summer debacle and internal war that saw most others shift firmly into the Nige camp. 
 

On the 4 goals in 6 games, I did make it clear that this was without the Plymouth game (that one was certainly an anomaly as a home result over the past few years). But even if we include that one it’s 8 goals in 7 home games. 
There simply is no argument that convinces me that our home performances have been anywhere near good enough over the last few years and especially this season. 
 

Regarding the point you made on Mark Ashton leaving and taking recruitment team and scouts with him - that’s false. 
The recruitment analysts are the same group that have been here for a number of years, headed up by Gilhespy. The main people who do the scouting are all still here. 

Disagree. Some of the analysts are the same, sure, as they were employed by us directly. But MA had his own network via which most of his transfers were made, using consultant and scouts to filter options that were then liaised to MA and LJ.

Gillespie was nowhere near qualified to head up recruitment like he did when NP first came in, but he was tasked with it under Gould to help keep costs down.

MA had his own network of both scouts, consultant, and agents. That stopped when he was out on gardening leave his final season. It's also how he was able to immediately get signings on board when he got through the door at Ipswich.

8 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

What this misses also is the impact of Gould. The feedback and intervening between NP and the board, after the removal of action, highlights the stark difference to this summer and role he played. It seems Alexander was backing NP and was sacked for his troubles.

I'd arguably disagree with the bold section, but this is a forum and I understand your view and respect it. It's the off the pitch element is what game myself and others theoretically keep NP in plenty of credit. Our culture when he first arrived was the worst I've near seen at any club or ourselves previously. Similar for recruitment - as when MA, the latter took the entire recruitment team with him, which meant no scouting network at the time. It was the reason why on paper signing such as King, James, and Simpson made more sense in that context.

Also, I could be wrong here, but which 6 home games did we only score 4 goals? - unless we're picking the worst results for us scoring across the this season. But

Coventry and Ipswich we were very light on the ground at that stage with King, Pring, and Dickie as back three. With Robert subbed off first half. It's a results business, three points across those two was expected with the latters form. Stoke agreed was poor. As for Preston, we were the only people they battered physically, they got off to a flying start.

The key thing that had fans on Nige side, for me, is he made us very very difficult to beat, even with a massively depleted squad and no depth.

21 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think it's worth pointing out that publicly, Steve Lansdown has had zero involvement in these decisions. 

This all seems very much Jon Lansdowns decision because suddenly he's decided his passion for the club has been reignited. 

Of course behind the scenes Lansdown Snr would have been involved in the decisions but to what extent who knows. 

It's very much Jon's club now.

No CEO means buck stops with the owner. When the Chairman, which in this case is family and therefore a nepotistic appointment, even more so.

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Yeah I agree with you on most of that 

I think the things we can criticise Manning on are the second set of subs yesterday (the first subs worked wonders), dropping TGH, and potentially, although it's highly speculative, for trying to change our style too soon. 

I think we also have to give him credit for not only getting this group of players to pass and move (sadly not 1st half last night), but also having more shots on goal, including on target, than most oppenents, an uptick on Nige's stats.

But clearly some of our problems exist irrespective of Nige and Manning... Bell and Tanner have shown poor form under both managers (Bell started the season well and tailed off). Neither have had a fully firing Weimann or Wells. Neither have had Naismith for more than a cameo. Neither have had our new right back, and our new left back has barely featured. Neither have been able to get a substantial impact from Mehmeti or Yeboah. And Conway...

Conway, as far as I can see, has the exact same role under Manning as he did under Nige. He's still on his own up top, and appears to me to have the same roles and responsibilities as he did under Nige. But he looks a shadow of his former self.

You know more than me how frustrating it was that people on here were just waiting to pounce on every defeat that Nige had, and I feel it's possible that Manning is going to get the same treatment.

I'll reiterate that Nige should still be the manager. And I didn't even know who Manning was prior to the rumours about him. So I don't have a prejudice here. I just don't think Manning has done anything especially wrong so far, unless some defensive howlers and misfiring forwards are down to his guidance.

We're definitely in a bad place right now though.

 

Part of me wonders if Conway was rushed back too soon with Wells injured.

16 hours ago, mozo said:

The important thing is we've seen some good stuff in those games, unfortunately not across the full 90, attackers not taking their chances and some unforced individual errors. Not really anything Manning can do about the last two.

You mean aside from the fact that the whole reason we played counter attacking football under NP is because he knew we didn't have players who could play the full 90 with the ball at their feet without concentration problems.

We had the second best defence in the league on a conceded per 90 basis before Manning.

Nothing 'Good' about the games. Just tippy happy across the back, too slow and too ponderous. We get pressed, panic, and concede. Parallels to SO'D.

2 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I feel sorry for Manning. Most new managers are given at least a chance by the fans, but it really does feel that a number are wishing him to fail because of their displeasure at what the board have done. This is not Liam's fault. I don't think we've played badly, and I think over time, when we get a couple of additions and key players return from injury, the way he wants us to play, will improve us. It's going to take time, but I think in the long run he'll come good. Yes vent and have a go at powers at the helm, but we should be giving Manning full support, and chants about Nigel Pearson as nothing but disrespect towards LM. 

He's not helping himself by forcing the transition now - that's squarely on Manning.

The big risk for him is if he loses confidence of the players.

He should have stuck with the old system for the time being until he got players in January and made small adjustments. It's just basic poor management.

Either way, I don't think the majority of fans will blame Manning directly, vitriol will be saved for the board. As without them this whole mess doesn't happen.

7 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

Tann has been extremely successful though, if it meant we got promoted to the prem and reached the fa cup final but played in say; yellow for a few months then I'd take that all day long. As far as football club owners go, Mr L is a huge failure.

Was more just about the control aspect and the criticism Tann attracted from Cardiff fans (re the colour change).

If SL had managed what Tann managed, or was as competent, and he isn't (not intefered much and just let a manager get on with his job), we wouldn't be talking about this mess and NP would still be here.

2 hours ago, TheSpaniard said:

6 games get a grip - pathetic.

De Boer had less. And ironically had a similar ethos regarding possession. #justsaying

27 minutes ago, BristolFox said:

Leicester fan (originally from Bristol) so had a great interest in what’s happened with Pearson and felt the need to pass on my condolences for what a shitty decision your board has made (not the first one either, huh).

 

Now I think there’s a couple of obvious points to make here as to why this has gone badly so far.

 

In terms of Pearson’s style of management, he tends to build a family type atmosphere, with the project not just being about him, but about his coaches, the players, the fans all being as one - almost making him like a father figure (and I have no doubt that is why a lot of you liked him despite treading water in terms of league position for 3 seasons running).

 

Now I don’t know much about Manning, but he is certainly a lot younger and nowhere near as imposing in terms of character when compared to Pearson, so that is straight away a big and unbalancing change to have in the dressing room (especially as Pearson has always been very shrewd when it comes to appointing his coaches and some of those left too).
 
 

But that aside, Manning was doing alright at Oxford, did ok at MK too and got a great result in his first game for you against the Boro, so I figured ok - maybe he’ll do alright with you.

 

However, alarm bells did start to chime when I heard about Manning’s desire to shift in style of play, because whilst it’s commendable to want to play progressive passing football - if you had the calibre of players to pull that off it’s unlikely Manning would have been getting the job in the first place (you’d have attracted much more experienced and qualified managers to the job).

Add in the fact it is mid-season (where training time is scarce) and you had god knows how many players out injured to begin with anyway, trying to make changes to a style of play that clearly requires a lot of coaching before you’ve even had time to asses your squad, seems silly.
 

To properly pull that off and embed the team structure, the patterns of play, the way you want to press, how you want to defend, etc, etc, etc - you need a pre-season.

 

It’s not something that can be done in 3/4 training sessions inbetween playing 2 to 3 games in a week. This is the worst point in the season to try and pull something like that off. There’s a reason chairman hit the Allardyce button when a season becomes desperate! 
 

So in summary (TL/DL)

• The board has compounded it’s bad decision in sacking a manager that seemed to have the players on board by appointing a manager with such a stark deficit in character.

• Manning has then added to this issue by attempting to change to a footballing philosophy he doesn’t have the coaching time to implement.

 

One final point

 

Pearson had two spells with us.

 

He got unfairly treated when booted out for Sven BUT our owners clearly realised they had made a mistake and he came back - and that was the beginning of the fairy tail, so who knows… but you would probably need to get rid of Tinnion first! 

Agree with all your point Fox.

However with regards to Leicesters decisionmto rappoint Nige meant your owners didn't have too big of an ego trip.

Sadly Lansdown seems to have such a fragile ego where he sacked NP in the first place, and the last time he attracted criticism he spieled the old "its MY club" card.

If he wasn't English there'd be more than one comparison with a certain Vincent Tan.

Sadly can't see him admitting any mistake. Wish he'd just sell. Him expecting what he values Bristol Sport at means thats not happening any time soon either. Delusional. Him, Tinnion, and his Son. None of them at all qualified.

3 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

holden mark 2? i'm starting to feel genuinely steve and  that the Lansdown family do this on purpose.. someone of Steve's business astute  cannot make these decisions time and time again without knowing the consequences.. the guy is a billionaire and he runs BCFC as if he were on the doll

Think it's fair to say I think Hargreaves got the lions share of the brains and acumen at this stage, at the very least with regards to decision making and management. I appreciate the money SL pumps in, but the lack of forethought and stratagem from the top is stifling.

Can't accept a contrary view to his own that's at all forthright. Ends up with yes men and no backbone in his management.

Said it once and I'll say it again, GJ aside, the only good appointment in the last 15 years was Cotts

...who was appointed by Keith Dawe when SL stepped away from the club slightly.

27 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

I have had a few beers and i'm probably chatting waffle bit.. is anyone fearing a regulation battle or is it just me..?

I feared it the second they sacked NP. Not because NP was the best manager in the division, he isnt. But because of one simple word.

Stability.

And we chcuked it out the window as our manager rightly felt he wasn't being backed, and the owners ego couldn't seem to take valid and accurate (critique) feedback without Gould buttering him up.

If we get relegated, and I hope not  - but it would be everything the leadership deserve. This should have been all sorted (new manager, full preseason) over the summer period. Simple planning, structure, and targeted recruitment.

Instead, we, the fans, now have no choice but to feel sorry for Manning, and pray he adapts. All because of their ego and stupidity.

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Whose lad has just come on for Blackburn? They said he played for us but didn’t hear the name. 

James Hill, Matt Hill's son. They were referencing latter's playing career.

20 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Not sure what's worse, the performance or the ****s on here revelling in it.

Yeah see loads of people excited over us playing like we're back under O'Driscoll. Not.

Behave - people are rightly pissed off - namely with club leadership, and worried about the fact this could realistically lead to relegation dogfight. They've dug their own hole. Manning wasnt going to get a grace period after the way NP was treated, rightly or wrongly.

No other player reminds me of how badly we wasted money in that period.

Dear lord, how we had him for three years on the books...

Still think we're roundly way too slow shifting the ball across the pitch. Reminds me of O'Driscoll too much.

13 hours ago, petehinton said:

maybe they’re starting to realise 

Hiding.

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was similar if not worse in NP's last 7.

Much worse for NP. Cardiff.

NP didn't have Vyner, Tanner, Williams, Conway; with six of eight bench players being Yeboah, Knight-Lebel, Backwell, Idehen Thomas and Nelson. Conway was still named on the bench despite not being close to fitness.

Manning today at least had options to try and change the game.

16 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

I liked Pearson but his record was not that great and performances were even worse than what we’ve seen today over his last 7 games. What right does he have to decide what games he manages?

With 11 players out injured with games against Leeds and Leicester?

He has the latter right as with him, despite those "7 games" we were within touching distance of the play offs with Jan on the horizon after he wasn't backed in the summer.

Absolute miracle, if you ask me. We had some sense of stability in spite of the tiny squad he was working with.

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Ralls got slagged off a lot and Rennie was like.  Didn’t feel like our injury record under Rennie was any better. Ironically Ipswich’s injury record is very good I believe 

Think context needs to be provided here.

Rolls got shat on due to the type of injuries we were getting - we had 5 players out at one stage due to Calf and Hamstring pulls and tears at one stage.

Compare that to Rennie where we had two ACL injuries (which are plain unlucky and more linked to development (15-19) than anything with regards to fitness, and Vyner, Tanner, among others who were impact injuries.

The only player I can recall with Hamstring issues is Conway - Williams had recurrences and has been crocked ever since the Rolls period, O'Neill was also critical of our medical team - think it was mentioned when he was a pundit on one of our matches before getting the Bournemouth job. See if I can find out which.