Fuber

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Did not expect to think at the halfway point of the season that he would be first pick in midfield but now looks that way.

TGH was really poor when he came on today & James was 6/10 but Joe, who was good at Birmingham & apparently outstanding at Watford, certainly edged him.

Williams is not the answer if the question is who should start in a Manning system. His passing simply isnt good enough, escecially in scope of his injury record with us.

We needed a new midfield in the summer with the Scott money - we only got TGH who simply is not consistent at this level, and in NPs own words Knight wasn't a Scott replacement. At the very least, by the coming summer, we need three new midfielders (across Jan and Summer coming windows) to complement Knight with a view to the longer term; with King, James, and Williams deals all expiring in 7 months time and Benarous as of yet unlikely to come back from his innjury issues, assuming McCrorie will come in and displace Tanner at right-back.

Add Weimann also being out of contract come the summer.

With a view to that a couple of loans for players going into the final years of their contracts next season would make financial sense if we can agree optional fees.

Ironically two of our midfield targets (Adam Murphy [St Pats], and Callum Styles [Barnsley]) I'd possible enquire for, adding a loan. See if we can't shift Kingy early as I don't see a future for him under Manning.

25 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean he’s 0.07 higher, we’ve scored more goals per game slightly and for have conceded roughly the same per game. 
 

This after 11 games, so with time I have no doubt that only improves. Granted I could be wrong mate but this is NP side. 
 

So LM is getting more out of a side that isn’t his than the previous manager. 
 

With a few additions I only see this improving personally. Players are still adapting and learning. 

He's also got five first teamers back from being unavilable that NP didnt have available for selection.
So I'd expect him to get more out of the squad, to be honest.

43 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Sorry what? Where did I defend the performance? Are you looking at the right comment?

You criticised SB for calling a dire performance dire and insinuated he was still drunk from NY - and said by return it was 'not great'.

It was a woeful performance up there with the S'OD era, was my point. To call his critique of today 'one of the weirdest posts on this forum' is some way off the mark.

Today was up there with the Barnsley game at AG back when Simpson and Downing took caretaker charge against Barnsley. For context in case people can't remember that far back - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12220056/bristol-city-0-1-barnsley-carlton-morris-fires-tykes-to-victory.

5 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Guardiola ball is not the way. 
The way that has just won a treble and dominated English football since it begun. 
 

Today was poor, but it needs to be tweaked and have the right players for it too work. All needs time.

The days of blood and thunder football are gone. Any successful team currently play a version of your “Guardiola ball”

There are teams that don't play possession based and do well. Villa, Bournemouth, Palace, West Ham - all examples of teams that play on the counter or wing-play without great amounts of possession. Secondly - Guardiola-ball has adapted, more and more season by season, it may keep the ball and focus possession still, but he uses have changed. Case in point, look at how Guardiola setup against Klopp back in April. (https://www.premierleague.com/news/3791815) Transitions is the key word. Its why I - personally - liked NP's approach as it was pragmatic.

The only teams that play possession and do well is where they (already) have the players for it - usually with a great advantage of technical players with comparison to the rest of the league they play in. Leicester this season for example, along with Southampton, can affod to do so - as they have the forward players with the creativity to do so as they have the one vs one ability to beat a man.

Problems with a Guardiola-like system (or how the gist of it is emulated at this level) as you moot above is that, re the bit on bold - you're not likely going to be able to get the players that can pull of that system at our level. Its that simple. Leicester manage the sort of possessions numbers under Maresca, because that squad shouldnt have been playing at this level in the first place.

Compare and contrast the opposite to that (interpreted) approach with Luton of last season. Well coached 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, round pegs in round holes. Horvath, Bree/Drameh, Osho, Lockyer, Bell; Clark, Campbell, Mpanzu/Nakamba, Doughty, Adebayo, Morris. Direct and quick in general play and transition. Two forwards strong in the air and quick on the deck, with wingers in Doughty and Clark who have good technique, with quick overlapping full-backs in Bell and Drameh. The epitomy of 'football can be a simple game if you do the basics right'.

I despise suggestions that suggest we need to rebuild. How many 'right' players is this evolution going to take? - as based on todays evidence, its everyone apart from the backline.

39 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Not great but what I’ve just read is up there with one of the weirdest posts I’ve seen on this forum

If anything your post above is the weirdest post I've seen on this forum. Period.
Today was prime O'Driscoll 2013 remastered. There's no defending todays performance. Simply must be better - both tactically, selection, and individually.

1 minute ago, BS3_RED said:

Can someone tell Stkes that you are allowed to take the full back on once in a while. 

He's being hampered by the fact he's stood almost man to man, Tanner needs to overlap more. The threat of it would force a cover and eliminate the 1v2 doubling up.

Meanwhile TGH needs to get closer to Anis when latter cuts in. No option when he cut inside to another 2v1 towards the latter end of that half.

Small issues are accumulating to a very mediocre performance. Sloppy passes, too casual.

8 minutes ago, HOZDA said:

Williams has been brilliant again, fairplay to him

Disagree with that. Has made about 4 of 10 attempted passes.

6 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Isn’t it bollocks though that sometimes it takes the expiry of a contract on the horizon to kick players to another level. 

That's the biggest issue for me - and not one of the smaller earners either.

Between his general lack of availability I'd delay a new deals until bearer end of season. If he gets offered more, so be it, we can recruit another midfielder.

1 hour ago, BCFC31 said:

Rooney is an absolute belter imo he sound so thick in his interviews and uninspiring he's living off his playing career I fully expect us to take all 3 points against then they have been terrible this season rooney looked and sounded a beaten man to me in his post man interview yesterday 

Hey Alexa - set a reminder to give BCFC31 pelters on OTIB if we lose because he tempted fate.

On a serious note - under Eustace they looked one of the best coached teams I've seen at AG this season while being defensively solid. Amazing what can happen with one braindead decision.

15 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Well if we have it will mean the board got it spot on, and the majority on here were wrong. 

Depends how you judge it. If you base it off risk - it remains a very questionable decision by any metric. Fair play if it works, but it very well may not have as is the nature of the business if they get it right or wrong.

15 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

While there is some truth in your comment, the enjoyment factor of the football is now is much better imo.

As others have said - it's hard to outright say X, Y, or Z until we're further into the season.

Sunderland we clung on for large periods - was essentially a repeat to the performance under NP vs Coventry.

I'd also make the point that our football last season after WBA was also as enjoyable as what we've seen the last 3-4 games. Our issue has always been longer term consistency. 

This is still, essentially, a 'new manager bounce/honeymoon' period - let's see what happens in Jan and what recruitment we carry out (if any) and see where we are once Mannings had 10-15 matches under his belt.

15 hours ago, Northern Red said:

It was only 2 weeks ago that we had people predicting a relegation fight. Lose the next couple and they'll be back doing it again.

How about we just take it game to game without getting carried away either positively or negatively?

Spot on.

8 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I like their ownership and would say that it has clearly been of overall benefit to the football club.

This isn't my saying "there are worse owners out there", rather that I think that they are good owners and I would like them to continue.

That said I am not a happy clapper with the blinkers on.

They have made mistakes but for me the only fully egregious one was appointing Mark Ashton despite his dire track record and allowing him to pour money away on far too high wages for years and years.

He has finally gone, though it is annoying that he was allowed to choose when to leave rather than being booted out of the door when the desperate financial consequences of his player purchasing became starkly clear to all concerned.

As a nod in Ashton's favour though he was genuinely excellent in obtaining top dollar values on player sales when for thirty years it has seemed to be official club policy to sell 'em off cheap as chips. That doesn't however make up for the poor track record on purchases and wages.

And Appointing Millen.

And Tinnion.

And Holden.

And Alexander (just railroad him within 5 months).

And Pilling.

And LJ.

And not backing Pearson.

And the Hummel Debacle.

And the O'Neills situation (late kit launch).

And the poor continuous communication across the last 12 years - the last two months not withstanding nor making up for it in the slightest.

Why is Ashton the only egregious mistake? They're all egregious as they keep being made.

Would rather they split the Atyeo and made the home end safe standing.

Or make E34/33 safe standing and move S82 over to create more of an atmosphere.

3 hours ago, Gratz260689 said:

O’Leary on the basis of yesterday? He’s been poor all season up until yesterday!! 

Find me a Championship keeper without limitations.

They get patched pretty quickly (see Kaminski at Blackburn).

Shocked nobody has gone in for the  Rotherham keeper Johansson yet.

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Snooping? I think of it as clarifying a position or agenda. Of course it's not all daisies etc but nor is it all doom and gloom. If a poster's every comment is deeply critical/negative/rude since August then it's pretty obvious that someone has an agenda but you know this.

It takes about 3-4 minutes and is fascinating to see where someone's coming from. What is tragic is that there are those who have absolutely nothing but bile to post about the Lansdowns and Tinnion .

Personally I support Brian and the Lansdowns which is completely contrary to the majority narrative on OTIB. I will continue to do so for as long as I believe they are doing the right thing at the club and you will continue to find my views offensive to your own.

 

Is it an agenda? Or just a way to vent frustration?

As you say - it's the majority view. So do you look at every posters previous posts? Just odd picking out Jim and making out he has an 'Agenda' as if he's hes just some sort of troll in some sort of an attempt to degrade his opinion. Otherwise why bother?

45 minutes ago, 2015 said:

A better option than Conway right now in the formation we play.

Sorry, but despite the penalty I thought Conway's performance was abysmal yesterday.

Harsh. He was very isolated today as we sat back and compact so much. Thought he did well considering.

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So @RedJim 

You certainly seem to have a very special relationship with our Club.

Here's all the posts you've made since August ( spoiler alert... LJ didn't come back but you ditched BCFC anyway) :

 

August 30

If Johnson came back that'd be me finished with City until Lansdown sells the club.

 

October 29

Thanks Steve Lansdown, that's me done with this football club for a while. Please sell up, you haven't got a clue.

 

October 30

Fantastic summary, great to read a take down of our clueless owner and chairman like that in the national media.

 

October 30

LANSDOWNS OUT!

 

November 3

Not going to waste my time watching that entitled tosser try and justify things. Lansdowns out.

 

 November 7

Exactly what I'm thinking. I'm not sure I'll attend another game at the Gate this season, I've had it with Steve Lansdown FC.

 

Wednesday at 06:50

Piss of Lansdowns and Tinnion - you've screwed up a decent thing that Nige was building at this club. Just go.

That basically aligns with my thinking to be honest - in a a much more blunt manner granted. But it gets the jist of it.

Not sure what the point of snooping his account is, like the above. You can support a club, but be critical of the ownership and management.

Sorry if it's not all daisies and rainbows.

2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

I thought both their wide men has our 2 full backs on toast today

Pring, yes. Multiple times. Can't recall Tanner getting beat. Mostly James being skipped on handover, yes, but not 1v1.

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nor am I…but trying to inject some positivity!

19 hours ago, CityReds said:

I can see him getting a new contract in the summer, on much lower wages and a 1 or 2 year term but I imagine his influence in the dressing room is huge for the team cohesiveness and morale. Much like Henderson is still around for England and Scott Carson at Man City

Would rather we didn't bother to be honest. I like Andi and he's been a great servant. But squad balance shows we need less runners and more players with greater technical ability for Manning's system to work.

11 hours ago, Harry said:

If you’re not prepared to give Manning time then what is it that you want? 
 

Because Pearson sure as hell ain’t coming back. 
So, if we sack Manning after we lose to Sunderland this week, what do YOU want to see? 
You’re giving a belly load of airtime to how much you don’t want this manager, so what is it that you DO want? Straight answer please, no waffly bollox. 

Not to speak for Seagull. But for me? - Eustace. On the assumption we're most definately not able to get Nige back. And kick out Tinns while we're add it if he was in fact an advocate of getting NP sacked, same for Jon.

Did well at Brum under strict financial conditions until the Bellingham windfall and Brady takeover and were the best coached team Ive seen at AG this season, and played a (more similar to NP) structured counter system that was not possession based. Actually has Experience playing and managing at this level.

Manning was a boneheaded appointment with regards to playstyle and timing. Do I want him sacked? - No. But in my view it'd be better for the club at this stage, as he doesnt seem to be at all flexible to the needs of the squad, who struggle in possession and technically.

On 10/12/2023 at 07:46, richwwtk said:

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

Add in LJs Tombola.

I hated Ashton's mannerisms, but with him poaching Probert he evidently actually had an eye for staff. The more time that passes and the better Ipswich do, the more I consider in contect that the buck starts to stop more with the ownership and LJ.

Still an ego-centric tit mind.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t let me have to have to go back to my LJ needing a Lenny Lawrence type posts of a few years back!

Seriously, that old head support is designed to be provided by Brian Tinnion.  It shouldn’t need another body, that’s part of Tins’s role.

Keep up - Ipswich Town.

I’m not putting 2 and 2 together, but Manning is with Refuel Performance Management.

Who are they?

Run by Scott Barron (ex-Ipswich player) who was at Ipswich with Manning, and Richard Lee (ex-Watford keeper / Dr Cap Dragons Den fame), who of course was a recruitment consultant for us under Ashton.

I ****ing hope not.

8 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

With regard to the "steady stream" of academy players ready for the first team remember, he only became academy in October 2021. Before that it was Gary Probert who was nicked by Swiss.

He was academy loans manager before that....

What do you mean our academy progression was only due to an appointment not by Lansdown(s)? Say it aint so!

(Appointed under Keith Dawe to Development Phase Coach, and promoted to Academy manager in 2016).

Thats surely an exception and all of SLs appointments have been stunning successes in his own periods of holding chairmanship(s) of the club.

(Silence)

....

...Right?

...
Right?... Guys?

7 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree that Gould did an important job and he was very much keeping things together. 
Re the summer 2023 bolded comment, I agree that there were some (such as yourself) who were already firmly with Nige but it was the summer debacle and internal war that saw most others shift firmly into the Nige camp. 
 

On the 4 goals in 6 games, I did make it clear that this was without the Plymouth game (that one was certainly an anomaly as a home result over the past few years). But even if we include that one it’s 8 goals in 7 home games. 
There simply is no argument that convinces me that our home performances have been anywhere near good enough over the last few years and especially this season. 
 

Regarding the point you made on Mark Ashton leaving and taking recruitment team and scouts with him - that’s false. 
The recruitment analysts are the same group that have been here for a number of years, headed up by Gilhespy. The main people who do the scouting are all still here. 

Disagree. Some of the analysts are the same, sure, as they were employed by us directly. But MA had his own network via which most of his transfers were made, using consultant and scouts to filter options that were then liaised to MA and LJ.

Gillespie was nowhere near qualified to head up recruitment like he did when NP first came in, but he was tasked with it under Gould to help keep costs down.

MA had his own network of both scouts, consultant, and agents. That stopped when he was out on gardening leave his final season. It's also how he was able to immediately get signings on board when he got through the door at Ipswich.

8 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

What this misses also is the impact of Gould. The feedback and intervening between NP and the board, after the removal of action, highlights the stark difference to this summer and role he played. It seems Alexander was backing NP and was sacked for his troubles.

I'd arguably disagree with the bold section, but this is a forum and I understand your view and respect it. It's the off the pitch element is what game myself and others theoretically keep NP in plenty of credit. Our culture when he first arrived was the worst I've near seen at any club or ourselves previously. Similar for recruitment - as when MA, the latter took the entire recruitment team with him, which meant no scouting network at the time. It was the reason why on paper signing such as King, James, and Simpson made more sense in that context.

Also, I could be wrong here, but which 6 home games did we only score 4 goals? - unless we're picking the worst results for us scoring across the this season. But

Coventry and Ipswich we were very light on the ground at that stage with King, Pring, and Dickie as back three. With Robert subbed off first half. It's a results business, three points across those two was expected with the latters form. Stoke agreed was poor. As for Preston, we were the only people they battered physically, they got off to a flying start.

The key thing that had fans on Nige side, for me, is he made us very very difficult to beat, even with a massively depleted squad and no depth.