Fuber

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Apparently attacking intent only comes if the opposition allow that.  It’s not about “us”, according to Hoggy (who sings from the same hymn sheet as Manning).

That’s a slightly facetious comment, but with a large element of truth about it.

That’s what we have, a team / game-plan based on what the opposition allow us, rather than us imposing our style / identity.

I can’t wait!  

*Shivers in end-of-LJ tenure remembrance.*

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Given we've started taking votes for our end of season awards I wondered who out there was thought of as being up for the wider Divisional awards. I don't watch every team forensically but will suggest a few to get the conversation started.

Manager of the season - I think there are two stand out candidates: McKenna and Cifuentes. McKenna has a League 1 squad sitting on 87 points with 18 still to play for. Ipswich have been electric and have kept going until the end of the season and through the full 90 in every game. I expected them to collapse in the winter, and fairly they have not done so.

But I think there's a better candidate - Cifuentes. Good lord the miracle he's worked with a trainwreck QPR squad is remarkable. When he took charge on Halloween 2023 they were 23rd with 8 points from their first 14 games. They are now 16th with 46 points. The quick-minded will swiftly note that this means that in the 26 matches Cifuentes has managed, they've gained a stonking 38 points - 1.46ppg. Had the season started on 31 October when Cifuentes took charge, QPR would be 9th.

Notable mention to Danny Rohl at Sheff Wed who has overseen almost as good a renaissance (36 points from his 29 games in charge 1.24 ppg), but it's not quite the transformation that Cifuentes has managed.

Player of the season - The stats show Szmodics as top scorer with 23 and he's been involved in 41% of Blackburn's goals, Summerville tops both FotMob's and Whoscored's overall ratings and has a respectable 17 goals himself, Dewsbury-Hall has been exceptional for Leicester, and Armstrong has been very productive for Southampton. Jack Clarke at Sunderland has been key to their season, and Sara at Norwich has been fantastic. Further down the division or further back in the formations there's players like Coventry's Sheaf, Davis at Ipswich, Whittaker at Plymouth, and even someone like Chair at QPR could be in the conversation.

Young Player of the season - Caveat, I am not about to waste time checking who was 21 on July 1 2023, so this is just players who are currently aged 22 or younger. Also, I refuse to allow a player to win both YPOTY and POTY - so Summerville is in the chat for POTY, and if he gets that then as far as I'm concerned he cannot get YPOTY. They're separate categories for a reason.

Anyway, it doesn't look like a vintage year for young players (maybe everyone had a good tilt at the U18 FA Youth Cup). However,  Summerville's teammate Rutter is a standout candidate as he's had a spectacular season. Philogene is fun to watch, has a swagger, and has delivered with 8 goals and 6 assists this term. Rowe at Norwich is just 20 and has handed in 12 goals in just shy of 2,000 minutes, which is pretty impressive at that age.

I don't know, YPOTY would be one where I'd be interested to hear opinions.

For what it's worth, here's whoscored's current team of the season. The omission of Szmodics is probably the most interesting item, but the team is caveated by the fact they stick to a pretty rigid 442.

 

Was about to say probably Szmodics over Armstrong.

For me I'd also have Sheaf over Fatawu (moving Sara wide right in the 4-4-2 as specified), otherwise Jack Clarke has been indispensable for Sunderland.

With regards to Keepers - this season there haven't been many strong ones. I'd actually have O'Leary on sheer shot stopping ability - him and Hermansen on 74.5 and 74.8% respectively, but Max making more saves, 117 vs 104. Really puts his performances in context to the rest of the division.

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Game management isn’t necessarily something that can be coached, it’s largely common sense and today and on Friday City got it spot on. 
Having the likes of Williams, Cornick, Wells and Sykes all on the pitch in the last 10mins make a significant difference.

It can be - it depends on the source of the errors in said game management, it could be as simple as an experience issue.

I think Manning has clocked that he can set up a team, and for reasons, it may not always work - the problem for me has been ego (his stubborness re processes); and now he's started making subs much earlier, as needed, instead of reacting like he was in earlier matches.

As per my original post - hopefully it continues and he doesn't revert to older habits.

Credit where its due - much better the last two. Some, myself included, previously criticised him for it.

Hope Manning keeps it up, being more proactive when it isnt working - that is.

3 minutes ago, Ian M said:

According to their forum he’s deservedly been dropped for poor performances.

That bodes well.

One of those where it wouldn't surprise me if mutual parting was agreed in the summer, or nominal fee.

It's a shame - as that period after NP gave him the cold treatment he had a spell where he scored 2 and 3 assists (one of which was the cross to TC at Cardiff?).

Add to that, 34 in June - could just be the legs can't hack it anymore. Was surprised when Vestergaard caught up when he was put through on goal by James when he came on.

23 hours ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Played well today, 3 very good saves from Vardy. 
 

distribution still poor, and if we’re all being honest, he isn’t the long term answer to get top 6, albeit we have more pressing areas to improve in fist. 

We have many, many, more pressing issues before it comes anywhere close through that list to get to keeper though, surely?

Him, Dickie, Vyner, Pring, Tanner, have all been solid. McCrorie good in flashes but expect him to need the full summer to get bsck to top shape.

It's the mess in front of them Tinnion needs to sort in the summer.

TGH and Bird - I don't see being the answer being blunt. Hoping the latter will surprise me on paper but the verdict will come once he has 15 games under his belt.

The former doesn't provide much evidence in BTs favour - jury is out still.

Especially if he's hoping one of Stokes and Murphy are stepping up next season to cover King, Williams, and James leaving.

That's not touching on the lack of wide options we have and the poor form of our forwards.

We have James, King, Williams, Twine (Loan), Mebude (Loan), all leaving as stands. Add to that Bajic heading for the exits. Then youth clearout - think 7 U21s are out of contract (Wiles-Richards, Leesson, Acey, Idehen, François, Wood, Backwell.

Gives some room for Tinnion to maneuver, if, for example we get circa £3m for Conway (not getting anymore than that for him with his return this season imo). Should be enough to get two in, plus a couple of frees. Whether that's enough to make this Mannings squad is a completely different question.

Apologies for the spiel - I've ended up just yammering.

3 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Imagine praising our manager! What a bastard. 

Sure he set us up well.

Means nothing until we see some consistency. I'll praise him if we see similar performances against Plymouth and Sunderland.

This could very easily be Southampton all over again. A false dawn.

38 minutes ago, Cole Not Gas said:

We have had a tough 2024 against sides who are not in or aspiring to be in the top flight of English football. Against the best we have been coached and set up really well. After yesterdays superb performance where TC ran the channels so well and deserved a penalty post match debate threw up an interesting one i'd like you views on.

We know Tinman loves both these players he has seen grow from kids to potential top class strikers. He will doubtless have a say in who we keep, sell etc but if you could only keep one of our own who would it be. I love TC and his late goals at Rotherham after the worst 45 mins football i have ever attended, but yesterday he didnt take any of his chances. Sam is faster, gave us a magic moment at Swansea in the cup last season and has really taken the chance Tinman gave him

I suspect Liam has already decided who he wants to come into the club and probably who he has to let go from our bunch of forwards. Which of these two would you keep if they were equally fit and raring to go next season?

*Pearson.

1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Derby are not a bigger club than us for a start,they might have been in the top league more than us but don’t confuse the 2

... so they're bigger than us?

18 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Despite supposedly losing the dressing room, being out of his depth, and boring I'd say our manager deserves a lot of credit for today's excellent victory against Premier League bound Leicester.

Although I expect several of you to disagree.

 

Personally, keeping hush until we see some consistency. 

As in literally any.

Was more impressed with Southampton as a performance - ironically thought Leicester looked bereft of any confidence.

Want this to to be a corner turned - however, thought the same at So'ton. 

8 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

One thing I think is fair to say is that when we are good under manning, we are really good. That at least is something to build on. 
 

Lets see if we can carry it on this time. 
 

Really enjoyable game today. 

Not sure I've been watching the same games, in the league at least I count those supposed 'really good performanes' on two fingers.

We played well today, but Vardy and Fatawu not fluffing their lines changes the complexion completely.

7 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

2 losses. 

Ah. I've done the old correction only to then immediately trip face first into a door and faux pas myself. Classic.

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Technically, but imo not meaningfully.

Pearson was on 16 in 15 this season; 1.14 p/g

Manning on 29 in 23; 1.26 p/g

It's really a very small difference considering you can't actually score part of a goal.

General shots against and shots on target against are basically the same. xG against is actually slightly better under Manning.

Edit: also, it is deteriorating under Manning. Over his first few games it did appear that we'd tightened up a little at the back, but it's gone downhill in recent games.

Pretty sure, just to flag, that 16 in 15 is 1.067pg....

Compared to Manning's 1.26, thats thats nearly 20% worse (0.18) is it not?

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Is it ? Do you check every stat you are told?  I think it’s fair to assume when someone in Tinnion’s position gives a stat it’s correct 

McKenna Appointed 16/12/2021;

Following 12 games - DWWLWWLWWDWD. 7W, 3D, 3L. As been stated previously.

1 hour ago, westonred said:

The trouble is we dont see the benefits of the Academy as soon as a player is good enough we sell them

Which should be an issue as long as we recruit well enough - as to whether BT can spot a (not-youth) player is a different story.

1 hour ago, Selred said:

Top line looking on YouTube, Manning gets 2-3 thousand views for his interviews. Pearson had 3-5 thousand views. So you’re right. 

Helps when one doesn't parrot behaviours every 2 minutes.

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

It been a long standing ambition of SL to have a squad made up with a combination of youth and experience that’s capable holding its own in the Championship and pushing for the promised land. This article shows that much of ambition is being fulfilled- apart from the ultimate ambition of reaching the PL.

Let’s not forget that Tinnion played an impressive part in developing and raising the profile of our academy and maybe his elevation into his current position is a reward for his efforts. I really don’t think that he deserves all the shit that he gets on here.

I'd didn't have an issue with Tinnion heading up the academy.

But as I pointed out onto he 2024 record thread - none of the players in the first team over the last years (Bell, Conway, O'Leary, Vyner, Reid, Bryan) aside from Scott (SL/Dale Vance), and Semenyo are attributable to him. As he was head of player recruitment up until Probert left, he only became director (officially) then (https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/tinnion-appointed-academy-director/)

He should not be both Technical Director and Academy Director - end of story.

22 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Alot of puff pieces coming out all of a sudden, its as if the club knows they f'd and are now running damage limitation

You want to quell the unrest instead of running puff pieces in the media do better by the fans please

They could have easily run this same piece with Blackburn.

Just 'happens' to be a focus on us, written by the BBC editorial author for the West of England (Sophie Hurcom covers some of our game write ups) who happens to have contact with the club via BBC Bristol.

It's a fluff piece. About the one topic I don't doubt Tinnion's knowledge of.

Ultimately doesn't mean alot when we're sliding down the table in a nothing season with Conway likely to leave for prospective pennies in the summer.

On 18/03/2024 at 13:30, LondonBristolian said:

I do agree with this.  And it is worth noting that - up until the beginning of the season - I don’t recall anyone ‘in the know’ on here ever even hinting at problems between Tinnion and Pearson. But suddenly he seems to have become the prime mover behind Tinnion’s sacking and responsible for everything that has gone with the club, whilst it seems that everything positive he has been credited with since he returned to the club is a sham and an illusion.

As with so many things, I suspect there are elements of truth and elements of interpretation.

Certainly I think it fair to say that the current structure, and his role within it,  has some major problems. There is a lack of experience throughout the senior roles at the club and that is really showing. And there also seems to be a major lack of PR savvy and ability to read the room. 

It is very obvious from the panicked hastily arranged interviews and multiple inconsistent explanations that followed Pearson’s sacking that the senior figures at the club did not anticipate the strength of fan reaction that followed Pearson’s sacking. 

However what I find even more revealing was something said during the SotC interview last week - essentially that Tinnion wanted to come on to talk about the youth team but then got told by Radio Bristol that he would need to answer questions about the first team too. The whole idea that the Technical Director of a Championship genuinely believed in the first place that he  might be able to go on the radio and NOT be asked about the first team shows a massive lack of awareness of what the fans and media are want. 

It is also fair to say that Tinnion’s first major recruitment has been a disaster and is not succeeding on the terms either the fans expected or the club set out.

But ultimately any organisation needs to make sure the appointments they make - even at a senior level - have the support they need to succeed. Tinnion has been at the club long enough that the Chair, owner and board should know his strengths and weaknesses. And it seems like nothing has been put in place in the new structure to help him develop or offset his less strong points. 

I suspect that Tinnion actually does have a skillset that is good for the long term future of the club. There has obviously been a degree of strategy and planning around youth development and long term continuity that he should be credited for. But it is also obvious that PR and press interviews are not his strength and the learning from Manning should be that, if he is trusted to recruit a manager again, he needs support at the very least to ensure that the manager he finds meets the expectations he has set out.

But personally I don’t think the above is necessarily a reason to sack a long term employee before at least trying other solutions.

The club urgently need to look at the top end structure and get some additional experience and knowledge in for sure. I do not think that necessarily means Tinnion has to be sacked but it does mean, as with any employee in any structure, the club need to find a way to utilise his strengths, offset his weaknesses and ensure he is not left exposed to become the scapegoat for every decision taken.

The problem is, Gould left in January (https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/gould-to-leave-city/), with Alexander then immediately taking over (https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/phil-alexander-appointed-new-ceo/).

23rd October 22 - Gould announced to be leaving.

9th November 22 - Tinnion becomes Technical Director (with recruitment, so essentially he's DoF, https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/tinnion-appointed-technical-director/)

31st Jan 23 - Alexander officially takes over CEO positions, Gould rejoins the ECB.

The problem is - without remit to lead recruitment - Alexander's influence is completely limited and pointless, which leads to JL and BT usurping boardroom control come September, https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/change-happens-nigel-pearson-reacts-8765340.

This was where NP starred getting prickly (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12996039/nigel-pearson-sacked-by-bristol-city-results-far-from-only-issue-behind-veteran-bosses-departure).

"Nope," was his curt response when asked if any of Scott's £25m windfall would be spent in August. "It doesn't matter how I feel about it, that's how it is."

As for any 'credit', his purview was Youth. Player. Recruitment.

Tommy Conway - preceeded BT. Sam Bell - Preceeded BT. Lloyd Kelly - Preceded BT. Same with Reid, Bryan, Burns, among others.

Dale Vance contacted via SL for us to land Scott, who was announced by Probert. The only one directly signed and a success was Semenyo - for whom he gets 100% credit.

But that's effectively it. We've seen the likes of Britton, Bakinson, Cundy, Rory Holden, among others come and go signed for the development squad. The likes of Janneh, Low, sold.

So, in effect - it depends on credited by whom.

As a case study we can look closer at Kelly's timeline

If you're looking at it surface level and he was Academy Director while those players came through, then sure. But due to the convoluted manner in which BT has held multiple roles, it also makes it unclear (by design in my opinion) whom did what, and by being head of those processes he's been taking way too much credit. See his comments about Lloyd in 2021 - https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/19634462.he-will-end-back-premier-league/ notable in the fact that Probert had joined Ipswich two weeks beforehand.

Tinnion didn't become Academy Head until a week later https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/tinnion-appointed-academy-director/ but was already taking plaudits. Despite the fact he wasn't even mentioned in nearly any previous media coverage about Kelly (https://theathletic.com/2002246/2020/08/28/lloyd-kelly-bournemouth-defender-bristol-city/)

33 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

It's now or never, I want to see him as City manager, just to live that experience, you know we all secretly want it!

I can see Warnock being the man to take City to the play off places, or at least give us a season never to forget!

Let's make fan power force it to happen.

Or have I just lost the plot and maybe suffering from temporary insanity?  I'd take anyone instead of bland vanilla man.

Yes.

But seriously - 5 years ago maybe, but he's gone off kilter the past two seasons.

11 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Out of reps, but a big hat tip to your detailed knowledge of how the Academy works.

What I would say is that whilst an organisation becomes good from having talented individuals it requires good management in order to empower and encourage those individuals to shine.

The Academy has done well under Tinnion's management and that Academy stars individually credit particular individuals with most contributing to their development that doesn't take away that he has been in overall charge and so empowering and encouraging those individual successes to happen.

That doesn't make him the best thing since sliced bread but it is to his credit.

I also don't mind that he has a ruthless edge to him.  Danny Wilson was an all round nice man and his team reacted by spending their evenings out on the piss and then failing to win through the play-offs.

 

The problem with the point in bold, EH, is that if he empowered them - they would stay.

Probert chose to follow Ashton to Ipswich - a division below at the time, rather than stay under Tinnion - rather than allow Probert to advance with us, he left to become Director of Football, as he was never getting that sort of offer here over and above Tinnion. Adding to that he seems to have gone from strength to strength, makes me think - at least on the evidence, that he was the main brains of the operation.
I could be wrong, but I think Probert was a Gareth Jennings (?) appointment - who went onto return to Leicester as Academy Manager back in 2015 - was a Keith Burt appointment I think.

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I would absolutely give King the caretaker role until seasons end. No chance of relegation, we cannot get worse can we? He may surprise a few people. 

It is what we should have evolved to , with Nige, (keeping Curtis and Dave R also ) IMHO. 

It's a similar situation to when Rohl took over at Wed. Nothing to lose, but gives him a platform and low bar to improve from.

Manning.

Someone with a back bone to stir hornets nest and stop Tinnion interfering.