Red Skin

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness, the moon on a stick sounds like a pretty shit present.

Annual Subscription to Power BI or Wyscout with unlimited video, now you’re taking! 

In that case, it'd be eye strain, RSI, or AFS (analysis fatigue syndrome). 

7 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

What he does here that counts, and as I said, direct from Man City it’s probably more exciting. The Belgian spell tempers that a bit so it’s about seeing what he can do in his loan period.

I do enjoy your contributions to debates, SD, but I'm glad I'm not the one buying you your birthday presents.  You seem the sort of fella that even when you get the moon on a stick, you'd have some nagging concern about getting a splinter, potentially gangrene, and worse case scenario even losing an arm.

7 hours ago, petehinton said:

Option changes things, as I say, and he hopefully ends up being a worldie, but I personally get more joy out of seeing the gradual blooding and development of our own youngsters vs having them ‘signed over’ for more short term reasoning. 

I am with you on seeing our young players come through.   I haven't seen anything of Nelson but Yeboah is still very young and very raw.   He was a hand grenade in Pearson's era, all energy and enthusiasm but I don't think he really has the discipline to play in a LM team just yet.  The club do favour looking to academy first - it's cheaper after all - but you have to accept the coaching staff see these players everyday and make a much more informed assessment than we can, so I am happy to trust that this guy is better than what we have (and potentially have once they develop).

I know nothing about this signing other than from comments on here, but it seems like a gamble worth taking.   I am not overly concerned he has predominantly played as a winger.  I think he'll be deployed as one of the front 3 so basically an inside forward.  Plenty of wingers have successfully converted to strikers, and more commonly to wingbacks if that's where the coaching staff see him.   He is young enough to be coached to play a different role, and to spend so long in the Man City academy he must have something about him in terms of talent and coachability. 

9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

What happens when Sykes is fit?

Plays in the front three for me.  Sykes, Conway, Twine.

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But that’s not what is actually happening.  They are taking up those positions BUT they aren’t getting on the ball in those positions, so it’s not all quick one touch triangles, we aren’t hurting our opposition.  They are getting screened from receiving those passes so virtually everything goes wide first, then opponents squeeze that half of the pitch and then isn’t the space to feed the front three.

If it was happening as you suggest, Conway would be revelling in it.

 

I don't think this is happening, but it seems to be what they are trying.   I think Mehmeti is getting it in the right position at times, but he isn't releasing it quickly enough.  Knight gets it right at times too, but isn't really as suited to that role as maybe Sykes.  (I actually think Bell is the sort of clever player that can execute this too).   When Knight gets in the position to go it alone from inside right, he just doesn't have the finishing/composure to score (as we saw with his chance against West Ham where he dragged it wide). 

We definitely aren't seeing the one touch quick passing though.  

Dickie can spot the pass inside and execute.  Vyner can see it but his execution isn't great.  

Looks to me that this is how we are attempting to attack, but the players in those 'inside forward' roles aren't the best at execution and the passes aren't coming.  I agree, the opposition are screening too.  It's fine margins to make it come off, but I think it will come. When it does, as you say, Conway will have a field day and he will get his rewards for all the work he is doing. 

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My simple summary and you’ll read similar from a @spudskipost this morning - we aren’t trying to / be allowed to play through the most threatening area of the pitch, I.e. the middle.  We are forced to go wide and that lowers our chances. We’ll have to wait to see what happens over a longer term, but if our outlets are wide, that kinda dictates it.  He needs to find a way of mixing it up / getting balls that break lines centrally in the final third.

I think we did see passes to break the lines didn't we?  Maybe just as many as we'd like.   I think this is more of case of having the players cute enough to move inside to receive it and give an option of a pass through the lines. 

In the League I'd like to see a front 3 of Sykes, Conway and Twine. 

The way we seem to attack is for two wider players of the front three moving inside to free space for the wingbacks to push up.  Then it's all quick one touch triangles.  With Sykes and Twine working as inside forwards between the lines, they are capable of running at the defence and finding Conway's runs (or use him as a decoy and take it on themselves).  Or releasing Pring/McCrorie down the lines. 

You then gotta think about who is capable of seeing Sykes and Twine and can finding them with a pass?  Certainly Dickie and probably Knight, TGH. 

I feeling it's building incrementally.  We have the defence largely sorted, and team structure in place to snuff out attacks.  We are now controlling games for longer periods.  Now we need to hone how we attack.  

15 hours ago, 38MC said:

It’s one thing I am starting to see in Manning’s short era, there are some real partnerships and understandings being created. Pring and Mehmeti seem to get each other and know when to overload on the left or defend as a unit, Tanner and McCrorie the exact same. Vyner being the lynchpin in the whole of defence. 

The partnerships that aren’t being created is up top. And maybe that’s the last piece in the jigsaw. Conway is just far too isolated at the moment. He’s dangerous when he’s being a Lone Ranger and creating his own chaos, when we attack as a team he’s just not around. I don’t know yet if it’s incompatibility or something that can be improved. Wells isn’t the answer either. We don’t look any better when we swap them. 
 

im not yet jumping on the bandwagon that we don’t create chances. I think we do create dangerous ‘situations’, we’re just getting blocked out as I think we overplay and try to walk the ball in. I think our forwards need more freedom to just hit the bloody ball towards goal rather than try to create a high xg chance. Ain’t there a phrase ‘it’s the chances you don’t take that you lose’ or something. I think applies to us - and often to most ‘new wave’ managers. You can fanny around to create a high xg chance, or you can pot shot at a higher proportion of lower xg chances. I much favour the latter. 

I think it's the overall cohesion of the team and their ability to stay in shape to stifle Forest when Forest did have the ball that impressed me  Everyone seems to understand their role and positionally where they need to be when attacking and just importantly when they are defending.

Yes, we probably need a different kind of striker to complement what we said that's what we are after.  

I do think we will see quite a dramatic change to our CM over the summer.  Players that can break the lines and beat their man are at a premium, but this is what I feel we will look to replace the likes of Williams and James with.   Feels like so much of our defensive strength comes from our shape and discipline that we may not need specialist CMs as much.  Yes, midfielders that can defend but also ones that are more attack minded will see use improve our creativity.

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Wasn't going to be retained on the playing side, even under Nige. 

I've heard he doesn't want to retire from playing so will presumably be in talks with other Championship/L1 clubs. 

That would make sense.  He was available pretty much all of last season and still 'only' 35.  He hasn't played load in recent years so maybe his legs are a bit younger! 

From the interviews, it seems he's been a massively positive influence on all the young lads so hopefully he will have a coaching role with us in the future. 

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

 

This is kinda what I thought will go with.   Twine and Syke effectively inside forwards in old money.   I don't see playing Twine inside left as playing him 'wide'.  (Were Hull playing him left in a 442?) 

Both Twine and Sykes can finish.   McCrorie and Pring pushing up outside them as wide players.   Both Dickie and Atkinson comfortable taking the ball out of defence into midfield to present more problems to the opposition.  A really attacking team when we have the ball, and strong defensively when we don't. 

I can understand LM changing the set up for the second game against West Ham just to present different problems.  Given it went so well, I can understand him keeping with it, and maybe it was to present Watford with different problems too after playing them so recently.  I'm fairly sure LM will be flexible and change things in the way he feels can hurt the opposition most. 

I've enjoyed watching Anis come in from the cold, but he's probably been presented with plenty of clips about how his final ball is lacking so it can't be a complete surprise to find himself benched in preference to Twine.  Imagine the meltdown on here to 'waste' good money on Twine and then start Anis ahead of him?

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Dickie, yes, bit of a magnet.  Pring is strong too, even though he’s not that tall.  Knight often stationed on the near post too, is excellent.  I think the other thing is that most teams have given up trying to put it right on O’Leary, because he’ll just punch it.

Yes, Knight is great in the air in both boxes.  We seem to have come on lots from lamenting Diedhoiu not being there to clear. 

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Hopefully Murphy/Stokes are green shoots.

Murphy, quite literally

Have we actually signed Stokes? 

Bit of a companion piece to the throw-ins thread, but I've been really impressed with how well we have defended corners this season.   And it isn't a NP v LM thing either.  We have just seemed to have really stepped up.  I thought Ward-Prowse and West Ham would be a challenge, but we largely sailed through it.   Late on in games I used to be nervous of any opposition corner but not any more.

What's been the difference?   Dickie?  Max more commanding the Bentley?  Pring and Tanner improving? 

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

In the first point, we aren’t going to be buying the best players - we simply don’t have that muscle - and we certainly don’t have it within this squad who aren’t set up to play that way. Our reliance then seems to be that LM is a markedly better coach than the other teams who want to play this way have. And whether people like/don’t like rate/don’t rate him that's undoubtedly a gamble

Clearly player recruitment is key, but I've always wondered why there hasn't been more of a focus on recruitment of other aspects of clubs set ups?   Head caches/mangers are obvious ones which do get focus, but why isn't there more head hunting at other coaching levels within clubs or is this happening and just not registering on my radar?   

Similarly player recruitment/analyst  teams.  It's so crucial to a club's success, you'd think that clubs would invest more in poaching from other successful set ups?  For example Peterborough always seem to have an eye for a player.  Most of these post are still relatively poorly paid as far I can tell, so wouldn't it be an obvious tactic to raid the clubs lower down the leagues that seem to do this well?   Surely, the same principles apply it's just the calibre of player you are looking at is different? 

You'd think being able to use your hands would be an advantage, but all too often it isn't.  Throw-ins can't be too much better than a 50/50 chance at retaining possession these days.  

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As we always get so close to agreeing on everything, have a “like”. I think our diagnosis is identical here but we may disagree on the medicine - so that’s something!

Hmmm, yes it seems that way.   I've always played the long game on medicine too.   Lifestyle changes to affect the long-term wellbeing rather than running to the docs for a quick fix to cure the latest ailment before lurching on to next crisis!  

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just my view, but I think you’ve got more chance as a non-PP club of getting to the PL over PP clubs by playing something other than “Martin-ball” (ala Manningball).

My opinion, was that we would be better off trying to be Luton style than Southampton.  We don’t have the resources to match the quality of “footballers” as them, so try something different.

Brentford prove your point thought (), but they did it through excellence in recruitment by and large..

I think strength is in players not systems.

That slightly contradicts my Luton point, but Luton weren’t competing with those Martin-ball teams for recruitment, they were looking at vastly different pools of players, predominantly cheaper ones too.

Maybe so, but it all depends what you want from football. 

I want to see decent football over getting promotion.  Be nice to get promotion playing decent football though.   To perfectly honest I was more annoyed with the amount of Watford fans in the Tobacco Factory making it harder for me to get a pint in than anything I seen during the game!  Bloody liberty! 

I guess the point I was making is we can't compete to sign 'star' players.  We will also struggle to keep our 'star' player so we have to develop a team that better collectively that the individuals that make it up.  Easy to say, but not easy to do.  

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Some of us have had 30+ years of training! 

I'm one of those too.  Gotta be a factor.

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If you listed forum users from top to bottom, patient to non patient I think we would both be near the top! 

I think as a fan base, rather than OTIB, we are a pretty patient bunch.  I think Pearson was quite surprised at times how much fans appreciated the difficult circumstances under which he was expecting to operate. 

4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m unsure that we’ll have the quality to be the best at that style as it will need more investment than I think we’ll put in (Fevs has mentioned if you look at Martin it works better at Soton than Swansea because he has better players), and my gut is that we’ll see a mid table team next year, just with a bit of a different style.

I think it's fair to say that any style will work better with better players.   The quality of player is always going to put a ceiling on the level of success you will have.   

I do think the style we are moving to under Manning has a better chance of getting more from the players.  Given our level of finances compared to teams with parachute payments, we need to find a way of playing that elevates the team over the individual.  When the emphasis is on the system they play to is elevated, you do not rely on star performers to get success.  (You still need intelligent, coachable decent players though).  The upshot being that when someone does come in to buy your better performers the team isn't overly reliant on them because the strength is the system.  You also know what you need to replace them because you know what the system needs. You aren't looking to replace an 'Alex Scott', you are looking to replace the role he does in the system.  Succession planning for the here and now (and if we are looking to upgrade because we get promoted) becomes easier at least in terms of being clear about what's needed.  Same goes for academy recruitment and coaching.  No guarantee you'll find those players with your finances within any given window though.  

Maybe that's why Scott Twine hasn't reached the heights he did under Manning?  Because he needs some structure within which to play his best football.  Maybe that's why Oxford aren't fairing so well without Manning now.  Because the same players aren't able to perform as well collectively without the system and patterns of play he was coaching?

I am not a fan of this threads.  I appreciate that results and points on the board is ultimately to only objective measure of success, but sneaking an extra couple of points here and there isn't a real measure of a team's development for me.   We all know promotion challenging football when we see it - as we did under Cotts - without needing to check the points tally per game.

I don't know if Manning is the answer, but I am happy to give him the rest of the season, a couple of transfer windows, and a full preseason to really make an full assessment.  For me, I have seen enough to be encouraged so far. 

I'm surprised that haven't got smaller cameras operated remotely these days, rather than have some hulking big bloke still stuck behind one.  

A camera in the Dolman is a good shout.  Usually teams have the camera on their poorer stand to show off the better one.  Maybe the limited access in the Dolman is a consideration.  

4 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Understandable, very forgettable he was.  

Yes, I always thought he was bang average.  Fair play to him, he's had a decent career. 

Can I interrupt the Jobi love fest to big up Mark Chapman.  Excellent presenter. Very insightful.  He is always confident to let the conversation flow and take it to more interesting places.  

25 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Not sure really, but I know during wartime the Bristol area had a sizeable Polish contingent based around here, a number of whom stayed post-War.  Hence the excellent Polish Club in Clifton. 

And the Polish Church 

3 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Bloody love this kid, I had no idea he had been with us since he was 7.  That's pretty amazing really, makes you appreciate he must be City through and through.

Loved the interview from the first West Ham game too, when he says  '9,000 of us' rather than '9,000 city fans'.  That's a feeling, not media training.

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I had people on me laugh at me a few weeks ago when I said "we won't realise how much we've missed him untill he plays" hope you're having a good evening lads. 

 

 

Whoosh!

The reason for the laughter was you cannot miss something you've never had.  It's like me saying I've missed sleeping with Natalie Portman. No one was doubting the impact McCrorie would have when he eventually played, but you carry on with the self congratulations.  

I had a great evening. Thanks.