Cowshed

1 hour ago, spudski said:

In answer to your first two paragraphs mate... Even when we were wining games at the start of the season, we could all see frailties, cracks appearing.

I believe LJ also saw that, and felt the need we needed to change. It's like we've had to take a step back to take two steps forward again. I believe we are in for want of a better word 'transition' again.

We were winning playing expansive football, but way too open. It doesn't make sense to many to change, when you're winning, but like I said, cracks were appearing.

I believe LJ has tried to make us more structured and to keep in shape better.

In doing so, it's stifled our play a little as we haven't been so expansive. We've still created chances and scored. We have become much more structured and disciplined. Players are getting into position.

However...like I've said in numerous posts recently...even though we have got into positions defensively, certain individuals have made mistakes and errors and that has cost us.

Offensively...we are trying to also keep shape and not go gung ho...however in doing so, when playing possession football, you have to create angles and move off the ball.

This has improved with Duric up front and Hegeler in the team. Unfortunately certain other players are not doing this. Hence the ball coming sideways across the back again.

Watch Little and Bryan....they never leave the touchline. They are so easy to mark out of the game. If the ball comes inside at an angle to Brownhill or Odowda...then they have to move again...not stand still on the touchline or move in a straight line to the next defender. They have to find space for the next pass, for the move to continue. They don't...so what you see happen, is the ball played back again to the CB's.

This is why our football is so lethargic and painful to watch sometimes...it's the lack of movement. Look what happened when Bryan did actually do the right things. He scored a goal, as he came inside. He also provided a cross for the second when he actually came inside and took on his man to the bye line. When he does it properly, it works...but it's very rare.

I believe if we continue playing in the way LJ wants us too...then we could become a competitive and solid outfit. But we have to find new players that can do the job properly on a constant basis.

I believe LJ has alluded to this recently, in wanting to bring those types of players in during the January window.

I get the impression that he was hoping some of our lesser players were going to step up to the mark, and that we wait until the summer. His hand has been pushed it seems.

Until we get those players or others like GoN, Matthews and Smith get up to speed and fitness, then I think we will continue to struggle with the likes of Little, Bryan and FF playing in key positions.

As I pointed out...narrow, possession football has it's weaknesses. And the prime weakness is in the Fullback positions.

Again you are over critical of Joe Bryan.  Look through the last months goals. Joe Bryan has frequently made positive contributions. 

Unfortunately for Joe Bryan he is constantly shifted from opposition to position. Mr Johnson appears to think he is Phillip Lahm.

The lethargy of City's play is due to the balance of team selection. Mr Johnson's team selection. The wide players are not as at fault ad you. The ball arrives too slowly through the thirds, too many touches, too many players killing each others space by dropping.  Bryan is clearly playing  (peculiarly wide) to instruction to create width and space.

Thank you for the replies. It was a simple question Spudski. How do Bristol City defend? Your answer was in numerous ways.

The answer should be; As a well organised team. 

In answer to your later " you know what they are meant to be doing" ... At times I cannot see it because it changes so frequently, and the consequences of constant changes are disorganisation. Here I disagree with your consistent criticism of Joe Bryan. If the team was not subjected to the numerous changes in direction players would be more at ease in roles. The tinkering tactics are ruining players who do have talent.

Bristol City under Lee Johnson are failing to prepare correctly.  The constant changing in tactics and personnel = preparing to fail. Teams like Brighton and Reading have clear methodologies City look like they are a team of " ok boys this week I think!"

And if it is a case of players simply not doing what they are told ... Mr Johnson was involved in buying them. He has been backed financially. His skills in Managing the  players, motivating the players to follow instruction are wanting.

Defending is not difficult. Eight/nine/ten men behind ball, one presses ball let's call him the first defender, if it's cleared, second jobs - trigger, in that zone let them have it, screen ... You know what I am getting at. That gets ever harder when the game is turned into alchemy (numerous ways of playing and starting XI' s).

People state Lee Johnson over complicates football ... I agree.

43 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

I think this has been mentioned so many times during this season, our LB/RB's are practically on the shoulder of the CB's - any ball down the wings, or towards the flags is going to be won by the opposition, and it's then a battle to prevent the cross... I just don;t understand why they are all so narrow, especially when we are also playing a really defensive midfield pairing in front of the CB's. This shape surely has to be what LJ wants, what they have been coached to do - I cannot remember seeing it so obvious in previous seasons, so has to be what they are being told/coached to do. 

If City are playing that deep the full backs should be tucking in and leaving the midfield to press the ball. The opposition then have two lines of four to play through. And City have four (at least)  players to defend the cross into the box.

The reality has been no pressure is being put onto the ball. Second balls go straight to the opposition as City sit in their box. Pressure onto more pressure is invited onto the defence.

City are wallowing the opposition to have it in some half arsed attempt at screening and attempting to nick the ball back.

What is evident is City are not attempting to press with energy above the half way line and push up. The opposite was true v Reading. Let them have it, get goalside, screen, nick ...

There is a word there energy. Some players trundle back, it's languid, there is a lack of leadership stating we stay here, press here, hold there, Flint does it, the rest  ... They do not know thoroughly what they are doing = Lee Johnson's tactics.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I agree with a lot of this...but it generally happens after we go behind or a team equalise...it doesn't happen all game. For long parts of a game, we do the right things, so we can do it, which leads me to believe certain players are reacting with fear.

l agree about us tucking in too much. Often our Lb or Rb will have to pull out wide to get into a better defensive position. This has led to a failure of defending crosses...actually stopping the ball come across. The second and third goals v Cardiff were prime examples of where are weaknesses are. Fullbacks out of position and not defending the cross...or when a ball comes inside, the back line sat too deep and not reacting quickly enough or pressing higher. Both...imo...our biggest problems.

What your are describing is a team in a malaise.  There is no clear defensive strategy present as a team.

If somebody asked me how do BCFC defend I could not describe clearly what is being attempted.

Have a go Spudski ... How are BCFC setting out to defend?  

.. 

9 hours ago, havanatopia said:

It remains vivid in my memory from the Reading game and came home to roost once more when I saw those shocking goals against Cardiff; May I suggest to all those who have watched this turmoil unfold since early Nov (?) that there is something wrong in the head of our back line that smacks of useless or 'frankly I don't give a damn' or, that, with 'I want the little wretch fired so am gonna give their striker plenty of room'.

What I have seen in those two games, when the opposition have been bearing down on goal is nothing short of diabolical. I would go as far as to say i have not seen defending that bad. Actually I cannot remember worse defending since Forbes Phillipson Masters and at least he tried. 

Our back line are supposed to be decent professionals on thousands of pounds a week. I don't accept that they are not good enough. Look at the goals we are leaking across all of the matches and tell me if you see a pattern. The single goal smacks of managing losses.

I need to ask the question even if it sounds stupid; what on earth is going on?

To my mind they are not playing for the manager. That means its curtains for Lee.

Here is my prediction for the next 2 matches:-

Scrape through on penalties against Fleetwood against all the odds and then draw at Forest and that should be the end of that.

 

p.s. sorry mods.. this should be in general football chat. Please move.

Do you think George Graham changed his team by the week?

Do you think he expected Lee Dixon to play LB, LM, LWB, CM and left out in a timescale of a month in the manner Joe Bryan has?

What defensive lines are City playing? High? Low? It changes by the week by the half!

Where is the midfield in this? What line is there to deal with second balls? Two? One? They are often caught between tucking in and pressing/screening. It is uncoordinated.  Pressing is a basic, a basic honed on the training pitch. 

This is inept management of players who have been through lives of coaching drills, talking about triggers. depth, denying space ... Put into a world of soup with a fork by Lee Johnson.

It's comedy. Youth teams ... I am serious can have a better shape without the ball than BCFC.

These are Lee Johnson's players, He was part of bringing them in. He knows all about their DNA for the project!! He is not motivating, and above all not Managing his players adeptly.

In Preston and so far been started on by 4 different groups of their fans just for walking round with a city scarf on.

Not whinging about it, but come on, 4 times!

Safe to say they're fired up.

And yes I've put my scarf away...

Walked from Town centre and saw a couple of minor scuffles. Prestons "yoof" making a lot of noise then running from a larger, and much older group of City fans.

Statement from Bristol City Supporters Club and Trust

BCSCT understands the reasoning behind the Notts County game being brought forward 24hrs. However the fixture list was published in June 2013. Why has this change been made at 8 days notice? Many supporters from both clubs have made work and travel commitments for the Saturday.

We are also disappointed that the club statement does not contain an apology for the inconvenience caused to supporters.

Weak.

Bristol City have not provided reasoning why they appear to not understand how to use a calendar.

Lost me money and let down my young son.

Shows a total lack of respect for the idiots they call fans.

FC = ******* Classless.

But in terms of this thread all he has said is, he's a winner, and if he's a winner, that means we are too.

I (a) don't see what SC has ever done to deserve such hostility and (b) believe it is in our interests to support him.

The performance of the team Saturday in the Managers words was abysmal.

The performance level of the team in the last two months has been frequently poor. The performances at Wolves and Brentford were very poor and pathetic. Brentford the team was only that on name. Fans left Griffin Park angry.

At Ashton Gate the team is often bossed by the opposition, the defence appears to be getting worse despite the "Winners" obessession with centre halves. the XI has left thd first forty five minutes in the dressing room, the form of JET, Reid and Bryan has deserted them, tactics are baffling, players inhabit positions were they are clearly not happy ... I could on but don't want to mention those pillars.

The perception is there that Mr Cotterill is a bullshitter. He can change that.

I've only been to one away game this season, maybe the away Sheffield fixture was worse, but in terms of sheer mind-numbing tedium that home game in November breaks personal records for me.

Then your view is not well rounded. At Wolves the team did not compete and played in a manner where it could not contain Wolves, so could not get any form of result.

Brentford was sans everything. Basic fundamentals were not achieved by a professional " coached" XI.

Sheffield Utd ... Abysmal in Mr Cotterills words.

Orient feels like a fluke. The abysmal is starting to outnumber the good, or even poor. That is indefensible.

An overlooked "benefit" of Mr Holloway's integrity is his insistence on shaving off his contractual cut of transfers fees.

Other benefits?

His passion failed to inspire CPFC and Leicester City.

His loyalty sees him being a serial walker away from contracts

A toxic relationship with Citys more vocal support.

Amusing if anything else the topic.

What's interesting about those plans is that there is a standing area in the corner of the east end/williams, and the corner of the eastend/dolman, as well as standing along the front of the east end.

Last one. Somebody from the working party can confirm or deny that the safe standing area has been altered. The image of the Wedlock at the open consulation day isn't the one now on the verge of being built. That will not affect the outline application.

Glad to hear this, as a lot of eastenders wanted the standing to go at the back. Any idea when we will know what the final design looks like?

I don't know. I was informed by those who have no habit of just making stuff up.

It seems appropriate that somebody should be informing supporters what that stand actually looks like. Fans were going to be consulted and informed at "every" step said BCFC.

Just a few extra random points I've thought of whilst reading this thread.

- I thought the club wanted to put more executive boxes in at the back of the replacement East End, but it was the fans who turned their noses up and forced them out.

- The rebuilt East End is going to have a couple more hundred seats than the Atyeo, and yet the roof height is going to be the same as the Dolman, which leads me to think that it's either going to be a steep gradient, or maybe they're leaving space for executive boxes in future?

I did speak to the architect regarding the boxes being removed from the Wedlock design. It was not due to fans. It is straight economics. They will be more profitable elsewhere and each stand will cater for a different demographic. Top end facilities in the Williams, then the Dolman and then the Wedlock/Atyeo.

The architect oddly could not confirm the rake of the stand by % v the Dolman. It will be steeper obviously than it is now.

The design at the open day was not the final Wedlock design.

Many of the points here should have been already addressed by the "wide" consultation. They have not been!!

From the images released so far and displayed at the public consultation, the proposal is to have four completely different stands.

The popular objection to bowl-like stadia is that they are uniform all the way round and therefore have no character. Regardless of whether some or all of the corners are joined up, a stadium with four distinctly different sides definitely does not constitute a bowl. I think it looks like it will have character, in the same way that the redeveloped Hawthorns or Bramall Lane do, for example.

Not saying it's necessarily better than the AV model mind, but it will have its own look and personality, definitely not your 'crisp bowl'.

At the public consultaion the architect described the design as having bowl like characteristics. The Bristol post go further and says its been designed to look like a bowl.

The design is generic.

The Wedlock design. Which one? It is, or was uniform. The design has been changed since the paper thin consultation.

Who do we think is to blame for the 'draconian' legislation football fans face?

A. Football fans

B. anyone else

Sadly, all the derby match proved is that such measures are absolutely justified and absolutely necessary.

B

Various home secretaries who included the legislation in criminal justice acts for widespread use e.g political demonstrations, free party scene, travellers ..

Football provides a test environment.

From the BCFC statement them

Semblar the club are not adhering to their own statements. Fans are being banned for life who have not committed any violent offences.

If the community trust works with offenders service e.g Community payback shouldn't this work now cease?

Effectively BCFC are saying that offenders cannot be rehabilitated, but players have appeared in City color's who have had criminal convictions. Will BCFC now have a policy in place regarding ex offenders?

No, you and the others defending violence at football matches are a disgrace. Every decent human being can see that.

Here's the thing parkender. I simply don't believe the people who claim they or their mates were victimised and did nothing wrong. You see, people who are guilty often protest their innocence.

There's no evidence to corroborate these claims that people are being arrested for nowt, not one bit, and there's plenty of reason not to believe it - not least what I saw with my own eyes at the derby match.

The Charlton fans you're talking about (in this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24746019) deserved everything they got in my opinion. Why would we want someone glorifying racism and murder anywhere near a football match?

On the derby night, I've no sympathy for anybody that ran onto the pitch and made a beeline for the away fans. Anybody who threw something is someone I don't ever want at a football match again. If that upsets you, tough titty. I'm not trying to be a superfan, this is the sort of reaction that normal human beings should have.

We would suffer far less overbearing policing if you people stopped making excuses every time there was violence and started making these "people" unwelcome.

I have questioned the clubs policy. Where does a player with a criminal conviction fit with BCFC ordering fans be banned for life for minor offences. Players were deemed worthy of rehabilitation. Does this not apply to supporters anymore?

This ^ players; fighting, kicking, punching, headbutting, pushing, pulling, elbowing, etcon the pitch, result= maybe a ban for a couple games,

[bfans; on the pitch singing after a big game result= lifetime

The sanitation of our game continues, bring on the armchairs and slippers.

It goes further.

Bristol City FC are making their own rules up as they go along with little thought. The five pillars includes Community - the Bristol City Community Trust.

How can the Bristol City Community Trust work with youth offending services/probation etc when the club themselves are banning fans for life!

Of course, I'd forgotten I was in the wrong for wanting thugs out of football.  I do apologise.

People being banned for life are not thugs. Players in the past did worse, far worse.

Would prefer that. Club needs to know fans aren't happy

Would like to see a banner below at ag

Football without fans is nothing

I have little reason to doubt what I have heard. BCFC should be made aware that they are making a unfair precedent v life long fans that did not apply to players in the past.

I would have no problem joining in with whatever gesture is made.

Half the eastend may not be there much longer anyway

Loads pissed off currently regarding various goings on

Or sat and silent.

Well I'm looking at them and thinking "clowns"!

Yes those stage costly operations and prioritise low level crime for the media over house break in's are. BS4 has been suffering a spate of breaks in's for two years particularly around Bath road. Real serious crimes. Operations? Media? No.

Hardly likely is it. I don't think it's pointless anything that stops these morons embarrassing our club for me is welcome.

Each raid will require numerous police officers. Some of the crimes will be for nothing more than men running on grass, men making silly "come on then gestures" and breaking the Eastend hardly robust seats. Scary stuff.

This will cost tens of thousands for low level crimes, or no crimes at all. Money wasted when homes in BS4 get burgled you often have to wait 24 hrs for the police to start their investigation. Crime should be prioritised, not used for tasty media sound bites.

Its a "look at us" gimmick for the media to make middle England feel safe in their homes.

A PR gimmick wasting resources when burglaries in BS4 see policemen taking over 24 hrs to turn up to conduct investigations.