The Swan and Cemetery

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

To cash in we would need a bid, to get decent money he would need to be tearing it up and as we could have prime Lineker up front and he wouldn't score many more. We have pretty much stopped making chances the last few games , yet he has 6 in 13 starts . The system doesn't suit him, as I and many thought his best games came alongside Nahki. Manning isn't going to change the shape to play 2 strikers , so I think we need to get a genuine attacking player around him instead of Knight. Not sure Wells or Weimann fit the bill, I've said elsewhere I'd try Mehmeti but someone to get nearer TC.

Agree, Rush was perhaps the best striker I’ve seen, but his life was made an awful lot easier playing alongside Dalglish. 

5 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

But yeah Dave carry on being condescending it looks real good on you. 

The irony. 

1 minute ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

 

We keep playing the same way, back to Dickie or Vyner once our forward options don't show for it.

 

Think we have to find a system (unless the St Patrick’s lad turns out to be Scott 2.0 instantly) to give both Dickie and Vyner confidence to bring the ball further themselves. They’ve both shown they’re capable (maybe not Hansen in his pomp, but decent), but need to have confidence they’ll be covered effectively. 

13 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It's almost as if we're a middle of the table team who will sometimes play well and sometimes won't....

Agree, assuming all other things equal (opponents, injuries etc), this season’s NP 18 points from 14 games and LM 15 points from 11 games are both rock solid mid table, no more, no less. Think broadly three paths are most likely:

- spend a bit to allow us to break down defensively minded/low press teams (chance of top eight).

- maintain current squad and cohesion and middle 8 finish likely.

- lose cohesion/effort and bottom 8 more plausible.

One key criticism I’d have of both the NP and LM periods this season, is there seems to be a lack of cohesion between players who might play a forward pass and those who might receive it, as to whether the ball is going to be played short or long. Defenders consistently beating us to short balls and longer balls often into no man’s land. Whilst Tanner (appears to be top of the scape goat league table currently) is part of this problem, I struggle to see anyone who isn’t. 

Just now, real_bristol said:

Agree with this. There was a passage of play where Dickie played the ball through the middle which looked promising and could be the way to break them down in the 2nd half

Think both Vyner and Dickie need to carry the ball forward more. To do that they need confidence in cover behind them, which despite Millwall playing only one up front, maybe tricky with James/Williams not being renowned for pace. TGH coming on might help (not that I think James/Williams are having especially poor games). 

50 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

This is something that I would ordinarily be saying as well.

But.

Manning has a track record of "beating" xG. He did it at MK, he was doing it at Oxford when we poached him. If he can do it twice before then I think it's reasonable to assume he might be able to do it again?

That makes me cautious of making the usual "don't get excited we'll regress back to the mean" statements.

I'm holding fire right now. Wait and see how the next few matches go.

Fair point, would still be cautious given so few games. And we’ve beaten xG by chunky amounts last two? Things look really promising, would just like to see it over a slightly longer time frame before calling “could we? Really… could we?” and ordering my Prem 24/25 vs “I was wrong” half and half ski hat. 

Words of caution:

- 2nd (and then 3rd straight after theirs) goals were crucial, forced them onto the front foot and gave us more attacking opportunities. 
- we’ve comfortably beaten xG in our last two games, so arguably statistical anomaly rather than dramatic progress (and 3 wins on the trot maybe unusual for us, but isn’t definitively a trend we can be confident in)

- still early in LM era so maybe an element of surprise for opponents that will wane over time, can we adapt when opponents are more ready for us?

Less Grinch:

- since pretty much LM’s first game think we’ve shown improvement in retaining the ball, but not pointlessly, seeking to create space and then move forward purposefully. 

- LM took over in difficult circumstances and has managed to get the players to adapt (a bit, think sensibly not wholesale change) and retain the spirit/effort which might have been at risk. Feels more like building on foundations than starting again (eg late DH/early NP days of rarely getting out of our half > later NP days of being much more capable going forward > early LM days of lots of goal attempts), which hopefully means the first few games were the ‘one step back’, rather than needing half a season or 3 windows. 

- Players back from injury helping in a small squad and Anis starting to add a lot more (well done to him and LM/CH).

- 9 points from 9 means a decent result at St Andrews and maybe SL will see the opportunity to do some reasonably serious recruitment in January - whatever anyone thinks of the squad’s quality, even with McCrorie/Atkinson/Roberts back, it feels a couple light (optimistic to think we’ll never suffer another injury). 
 

7 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

The bloke hadn’t won 2 in a row in over 30 games 

Im sure I read earlier that this was our first 3 wins in a row since November 2020? 

if that’s right - Manning has already achieved something Pearson never did 

If he improves us consistently fair play to him and contrary to (some) popular opinion, everyone will be delighted. Definitely some positive signs, but a) very early days and b) not that long since we had a manager who managed long winning steaks, but also had a penchant for long losing streaks. Too early to be drawing useful comparisons for me (and nothing will ever be like for like, so probably more important how we’re getting on than whether Manning is de facto better than Pearson, Dicks or Beasley). Great performance today. 

8 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

He’s held up as a god by some fans quite embarrassing

Apart from he wasn’t, by anyone, you make a great point. 

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Here are his 15 groups of sequential 8 game runs:

7

3

12

7

10

10

8

11 ️

11 ️

8

10

15

8

12

9

(for info, games 1-14 Season 1, 15-60 season 2, 61-106 season 3, 107-120 season 4)

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah - so 1.375 pts per game, average. 

NP overall have 1.2 ppg  average & I can't recall many/any periods where his average got much above that.

 

8 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody knows what the results would have been under NP & it's a waste of time considering it - but I'm pretty certain that a stat comparison would back up the (pointless) claims.

Very, very rarely did we win back to back games under NP - especially against 2 top six sides.

Very rarely, if ever, did we win 3 out of 4 home games under NP.

Without looking it up, I'd suspect that LM's PPG stats are already better than at any point under NP, over a similar number of games (of course that can changes ina game or 2 at this early stage)

There is little to argue in that we seem to be creating more shots at goal than under NP & that can only help make games better to watch & help improve results.

It's been a pretty decent start for LM & hope we continue to see improvement. 

So 8 out of 15 above 1.2 PPG and 5 out of 15 above 1.375 PPG. 

1 minute ago, Super said:

True though. 

Congrats. 

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

If its effective, then yes

And not much more we can ask of the player themselves. We can be angry about purse strings and recruitment quality etc, but the tone of voice from some that the player is in some way at fault is odd to me. If not trying, fair enough, but difficult for him to convert himself into something he isn’t. I’m with @Davefevs that one error and pile on ensues. 

3 hours ago, Will Rollason said:

Always intrigued by your forum name! Cant say ive ever heard of a pub called this before. Any idea why Swan and Cemetery?

Pub near Bury’s Gigg Lane. Battling with the Springfield Arms, Wigan for my favourite away pub, slightly more intriguing name wins the day. 

Reported fee was £300k wasn’t it? Not sure what we expect for that, but presumably not expecting him/anyone for that fee to tear up the Championship? Personally think he does okay given the outlay. If we’re saying we’d prefer to have £10m strikers, think that’s a different debate. 

39 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

It's people like you who have some warped loyalty to our average players who will never see us progress.

Eh? I just asked what standard you were comparing him against? Prem ready, top 6, top half etc. “people like you”… blimey.

1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

Just trying to point out that Tanner is not good enough and neither is Pring at the moment with his poor form.

 

Not good enough vs what standard? 

6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Its how it is on here for the time being.

Not convinced by this. There are a few on both sides who endlessly seek to retrofit things to their point of view, but most are just trying to be balanced (which includes disagreeing with those who are obsessively anti NP or LM). 

Wasn’t a thriller, they were poor, we were a bit better, but not great final third (reasonably common under both NP and LM). But given the weather conditions, not sure that’s the game to be passing much judgement on. 

On 25/11/2023 at 20:14, redsquirrel said:

fair play to LM on that first game at home. i didnt think we stood much chance of a draw,let alone a win. massive monkey off his back

Think it’s worrying that in the kerfuffle of the changes, we seem to have completely lost a role: manager. Fleming/Euell coaching, replaced by Manning/Hogg, coaching. May well turn out (or may not) that the latter pair are better coaches, but not convinced that the man management/motivation is showing obvious signs of being a strength. Hopefully coaching will lead to winning, so culture becomes more self fulfilling, but think what NP instilled off the grass, was critical to a small squad without an array of top notch players, holding their own on it.  

4 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

overall I can see the progress

I can see change, but not sure, net, it’s progress yet. Think some of the ball retention is then resulting in us getting through the lines to the final third (ie it’s not just sideways). But we’re also setting up to be less effective on the break. And whichever route, improved decision making and execution in the final third is still needed (for top six). Defensively changes less obvious to me and given some individual errors, would need to see more games to be confident in whether we’re getting stronger or weaker. I was very much in the camp of keeping NP, but the only plausible reason for changing him requires a change in style of play and reasonable to give LM time to achieve that. My biggest concern about today was probably body language, which didn’t seem to have quite the togetherness/energy we’re used to, but get that maybe due to getting used to new systems and being frustrated as a result, aka growing pains. 

Just now, GrahamC said:

He took a knock not long beforehand & went off a Saints with cramp.

I knew there would be a Weimann pile on because we lost, he was ok today, offered far more than either Mehmeti or Bell did when they came on.

Agree re the Mehmeti/Bell comparisons, but thought he should have done better for their first, initially knocked off the ball too easily and then didn’t work hard enough to get back in to cover the first time cross. 

Thought it was more lacklustre than terrible today and some of the possession did eventually lead to openings, just continue to lack quality in the final third. That said, although it didn’t come off for him today, thought Tommy looked closer to his best than we’ve seen for a while, given a relatively thankless task up there on his own. 

Less positively, the amount of times we attempt to win the ball via proper tackles is insufficient and results in endless second balls for our opponents, when we get indecisive nicks first time of asking. And support from wide areas needs to improve - as others have mentioned, Tanner may not have had his greatest game, but very isolated and left hand side not clicking either. Would like to see us adapt defensively in game a bit more, pretty clear Idah was quicker than Barnes, but we continued with a high line. Poor from Zak, but with a better tactical shape, it could have been avoided, get we were going for the win, but still think we could have dropped a bit deeper.  

7 minutes ago, redkev said:

Not really known for its atmosphere so should be like a home game

seriously no doubt we will make a lot of noise , awkward place to get to no great pubs around the ground rip off concourse ( typical prem ground and surroundings ) gonna look for a nice little London boozer few tube stops away think Shoreditch is decent , any London based city fans got any recommendations 

Hackney Wick has some decent places for a drink and easy walking distance. Albeit I’ve never been there pre football, so no idea if it will be swamped with raging ICF. 

1 minute ago, Jerseybean said:

We looked far more composed and comfortable with the ball throughout

First half yes, second half definitely not. Composure entirely lacking. Admittedly against a very good side at this level, so no shame in the overall performance. Composure in the final third has been a challenge for a long time, hope it can be coached, but think we need a bit more quality to push on. 

45 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Are you in anyway, even remotely criticising the Messiah? Risky road to go down.

Decent gaslighting.