The Swan and Cemetery

1 minute ago, Zuni said:

I do think NP is doing a decent job with the players available to him but we do often look to be "out coached" and "out thought" and often ponderous in our play and decision making.

Is that an old school versus modern coaching thing ? Not sure but the argument could certainly be made.

Think more that some teams have better players than us. 

Just now, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Thats what RB said.

If he’d have been less honest and gone down on the first contact, decent chance (with a vaguely objective referee) it’s given, after that was all a bit arms and legs/six and two threes. 

5 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Too soon to judge, surely?

It’s never too soon to judge on OTIB. 

3 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Are there any yes men in your list of "rated" managers ?

Fear not, there’ll be someone out there with a few PowerPoint slides about how they’re inspired by Billy Beane and use sabermetrics to go for a piss. SL/JL will lap it up. 

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Were those the stats when the men played a Man City side with KDB, Foden, Gundogan etc. last season? Not knocking players doing their best by the way……

The stat that matters most was worse wasn’t it? 

15 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Who would just base it on league position alone? Seems a bit strange. I don’t really understand what the argument is. The poll was on OTIB for fans?

OP said league position changed, but surely people not that fickle. Some posts in the chain saying the league position change is a factor. You said fickle was reductive. I was saying that it would be fickle (agreeing with OP), but don’t think that’s why people’s views have changed (despite the other comments), agreeing with you. Basically OP, you and me all agreeing! 

6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Things have improved and moved on since last December. I don’t think people just look at the league position, people look at the performances, attitude of the players, external circumstances, transfer window, new signings, past appointments of SL… I think assuming that people are fickle is a bit shortsighted and reductive. 
 

Think the OP is saying if basing only on league position that would be a bit fickle? Given we’re 4 points above 18th and 2 points above 15th, think league position alone would be an odd rationale for the swing in sentiment.

From a supporters perspective think a) people are seeing the fruits of culture change and like seeing a team that works hard and to the end (however much that should be a given) and b) are frustrated by the lack of support in the transfer window, particularly given NP has maintained (improved vs the latter stages of LJ and all of DH reigns) our position, with a vastly smaller and less expensive squad. 

Suspect NP is more frustrated by the snippy/passive aggressive comments from the hierarchy about expectations, inc comparisons to the tactical genius Mark Robins. Think he’s more comfortable than the supporters to operate on a very tight budget, but (quite rightly) expects to be recognised for doing so. 

In terms of why we’d want NP continuing if not getting on with the doves from above, think NP without support is still likely to deliver more success than a supported innovative young manager (/sycophant), which is surely what we’d get. Whether NP fancies continuing is a different matter, albeit with supporters on his side, he may see it as an intriguing battle of wills. 

12 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Conway looked way off being ready but obviously needed the minutes. He really struggled against their centre backs with the little service he got. 90% of it was in the air. Cornick put himself about when he replaced Conway and gave their CBs a game.

Would quite like to see Cornick and Conway together as an option. Cornick’s appearance summed him up for me, some of it’s clumsy and so on, but you feel he’s always in the game and as you say, opponents know they’ve a game on their hands. Service wasn’t amazing, but none of our starting front three really got involved enough, Cornick (and Yeboah) caused more problems (accepting Coventry searching for a win maybe left more space than the starting three had access to). 

2 hours ago, daored said:

Or Jordan !

Aizlewood alongside Hunter to create deep seated fear in opponents. Gavin somewhere to supply Jordan/Taylor/Shutt. 

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

In the 6 seasons before he joined us, he had 100 appearances in the Dutch 2nd Division and 1 for Brighton. 

And the 1 was across the 3 seasons immediately before joining us (realise you know this). 

Just now, ralphindevon said:

But what is there new to say? If you want opinions of his time here then go look back at many thousands that have been posted. He’s gone, there’s nothing new to add surely?

If there being nothing new to add was a rule, this forum would dead in the water. It’s not as if people commenting on his performances for Burnley is going to be insightful/fascinating reading, but fair enough if people want to do it. 

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

This has all been done to death and is now quite boring, everyone has their own views, fine.

Hopefully this thread is now just to see how he’s getting on for those who are interested. 

Don’t think unreasonable for people to continue to offer their opinions about him and his time here, however boring it is for others. If we could all have a veto over subjects we find boring there would be zero threads. 

SL is an odd cove, seems persistently most upset by his best decisions. 

Sure they’ll want to give James and Rennie good receptions along with NP, but if King comes on as sub, he’ll get a hero returns welcome, given his unique League One, Championship and Premier League winning exploits with them. 

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Let me make one thing clear, Cornick didn't do anything particularly wrong in that game.

I am amused however by some posters here who respond to any criticism of the man as if someone had insulted their own mothers.

Only Pearson provokes a greater circling of waggons response. 

Think it’s more people responding to others who come across as having clear agendas - to see that chance as a sitter is ludicrous in my view, whether assessing by own eyes or xG. Most games would end 9-7 based on the views of a fair few on here and we’d need a lot more threads about specific chances. 

7 minutes ago, Bourne End Red said:

ts quite clever on SLs part because if we finish lower mid table, SL can sit back and say I was right not to back him with funds.

Albeit that could be challenged reasonably easily on the basis of not backing him resulting in the lower mid table finish. 

So far this season seems as if we’re reasonably consistent and as a result… inconsistent. Solid to very good performances away from home, struggling to break teams down at home. Somewhat out of kilter with the Championship overall, 23 home wins, 16 away wins so far, albeit early days.

Whether it’s our set up/core abilities of our players vs how others tend to set up home vs away (or just that we’ve played 2 decent teams at home), not sure, but feels like plenty to be excited by, whilst also lots still to work on.

Based on today, need to get Joe W signed up asap.  

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

….and that is why for ages I’ve been trying to say to you it’s not good for judging the result of a match, and why xg tables based on individual games are pretty futile.  But it is useful for individual player scouting for example.

Worth you looking at Statsbomb’s xG it is far more sophisticated than any others and solved many of the probs of previous models, inc defenders and goalkeeper positions.

Potentially interesting for some in game assessments (accepting that the data for individual xG incidents won’t be perfect)? Eg in @And Its Smith’s goal mouth scramble example, if all 3 had an individual xG of 0.2, that’s a 0.8^3 chance of not scoring which is still over 50%, despite 3 chances that supporters would probably perceive at gilt edged? 

xG strikes me at the type of tool that [insert name of old school manager] would reject completely in favour of “my own eyes” (and half time cups of tea), NP would see as another way of triangulating what’s going on and LJ would rely on entirely (probably sacked by Hibs for demanding their board push the SPL to given up on points based on wins, draws and losses and just rank based on xG). 

Depending on data efficacy xG will be useful for assessing striker performance vs those creating chances for them, etc etc. Are strikers terrible vs not getting enough chances (accepting might because they’re not making the right runs etc - so can only ever be one perspective, not the only data point used)?

3 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

So? You weren’t talking about profit, you were saying “one hand behind his back”, which is the same for many clubs Preston, Huddersfield, Sunderland many clubs could come under that category.

Not sure on the criteria for hands tied behind back, but we’re currently 2nd in that mini league, so guess he must be doing okay…

Didn’t think they were that great overall, plenty going forward, but if we’d played half decently with the ball, we’d have matched them. Space everywhere compared with Preston, who weren’t as good as Birmingham coming forward, but much more effective defensively. 

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is the continuation of the “SL thread” in reality.

Interesting to see how this plays out.

I am definitely 2+2=5 but this would be typical Lansdown to let Nige sort out the shit and then want someone else.

I have night terrors about SL having a bright idea to bring LJ back. 

Just now, Davefevs said:

One pair (2 players) up top is better than three individuals imho.  Allows you to play Weimann or Mehmeti in the hole.

It also allows Pring room to get forward, assuming he plays.

Think on balance I agree, albeit we miss TC a lot. Overall think Birmingham were vulnerable and should have been easier to beat than PNE, who we hardly got a look in against. Birmingham were very decent going forward, but not great without the ball, we just failed miserably to threaten due to lack of concentration/precision. Not really a core strategy (or at least shouldn’t have to be), but endlessly letting balls run under our feet for throw ins summed up the weird mindset today. 

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

But if we are dependent on our central defenders as the only ones willing to play balls forward, then surely that points out the problem with our midfield. No Scott, no midfield attacking intent is the plain and simple truth right now. The only other player willing to play it forward when he came on was Naismith, and unfortunately it was one of his misplaced passes that set up their second goal on the break.

Agree, albeit don’t think the front four did a great job of creating options for passers most of the time. 

I didn’t think Vyner was as bad as everyone saying (which maybe gives me a clue!), thought he was trying to get some forward momentum, which admittedly didn’t always come off and also thought he made some decent interceptions/tackles. Today at least Tanner made it more difficult for him, his body shape/first touch seemed to be consistently to come back towards his own goal, rather than move the play forward. Roberts and Yeboah at least brightish sparks. There was a lot of space out there today and we definitely should have made more use of it. 

Just now, Ivorguy said:

I think people missed my point re goal keeper.  It isn’t sensible, or wise, imo, to have zero competition for the jersey. This is unusual for City over the years and needs rectifying 

Agree, Max’s biggest fan would struggle to suggest he has decent competition for his place.