The Swan and Cemetery

37 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Love to see a points won with James v without him.  One of first names on team sheet for me.

This season:

With (28 games): 1.36 points per game

Without (12 games): 1.16 points per game

So approx 9 points extra over a full season (if the only difference was MJ playing vs not playing, which obviously it won’t be, but probably does support a view that he’s reasonably critical). 

2 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Talking of Bury, wasn't there a pub next to Gigg Lane called the Swan and Cemetery? 

There is. 

34 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s player of the season not most improved player so it’s Scott all the way. Vyner if it was most improved.  

Personally would go with Scott if most talented player, but not player of the season, a decent number of games where he’s lacked impact in my view. But still a great season, so close run with Pring, Vyner and James for me. Overall I’d go Bob Taylor. 

7 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Just get off the ******* blokes back and give him a bit of leeway.

It’s the snide little attempts at humour (would suggest OTIB correspondents don’t book a full season at the Edinburgh Fringe hoping to scoop a Perrier award) about our own player that really grate. No probs  commenting on what he needs to improve, but he wasn’t close to being the worst yesterday and was decent at the weekend. Whenever we play poorly, the only thing worse is the nonsense spouted on here (that said, in fairness, Twitter aficionados and Radio Bristol callers are even worse, but OTIB sets a pretty difficult standard, meaning they have to be overcome by a weird mania to be even more appalling). 

Thought he did better than most last night, got lots wrong, but showed up a lot more than most. Fair nuff, others have reputations in the bank, so can afford to have a poorer game here or there, but given the time he’s been with us seems odd not to give him the benefit of the doubt, until he’s actually had a chance to settle. Enough promise shown last couple of games to make me think he’ll be fine and dandy. 

2 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

People are entitled to an opinion, it’s a forum. Cornick, like many in the first half especially, was poor. Others have been name checked also. He’s had a very flat start since joining though - as you’ll know. 

Nope, it’s been a pile on. But agree entitled to their opinion. 

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

What is this weird obsession with bashing/bringing up Cornick at every opportunity? Very very odd. 
 

Had a good second half. Won a lot in the air. Doing a pretty thankless role atm. 

Indeed, plenty of others have been worse, but we gotta have a scapegoat. 

We’ve helped them look decent, but they… look decent. 

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

We’ve done brilliantly since Christmas. I genuinely mean that . But people were talking of the playoffs man 

And others of relegation. Both way off the mark. 

Always enjoyed going to Luton, unique ground that has a decent atmosphere. Never understand views that seem ecstatic/superior that we might have some padded seats or neatly symmetrical stands, personally prefer something that vaguely resembles character/history, not as if we’re being asked to live in the burger van. 

Premier League often gives the impression of being undeserving/ungrateful egocentric juveniles swanning around, earning a fortune and thinking they’re the bee’s knees. We’ve got (I think) 5 players with Premier League experience: Andy K, Andi W, Matty J, Nahki W and Tomas K (the latter two each with fewer than 10 appearances each admittedly). These seem like 5 experienced professionals, setting great examples on work ethic etc to the younger lads. Maybe a good indication that some experience from higher levels around training and on match days, even if later in in careers (Andy rather than the other four), can have significant benefits in imparting wisdom and what it takes to succeed at the top level. Must be impactful for Alex to be working with someone with a Premier League winners medal. 

OTIB at least is a great advert for BCTV/travelling a long way when it’s cold. You have to watch games yourself to realise how much nonsense is spouted on here. It’s like a support group for misanthropes most of the time. 

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That doesn't surprise me. However, I'd wager we concede more goals when he plays too. 

Yep, 28 when he’s played, 15 when he hasn’t. Overall +4 GD when he’s played,-4 GD when he hasn’t. 

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And this is exactly why I debated when others say we had players to play 433 all season and should’ve switched earlier.  We did and didn’t, for many reasons.  Semenyo’s return (to form) coupled with Conway’s injury, Naismith into midfield, coupled with the growing confidence of Vyner and Atkinson, etc, etc.  Lots of little nuances and dependencies.

My fumblings on Transfermarkt may have this wrong but I make it:

Naismith plays: 20 games, 32 goals

Naismith doesn’t play: 14 games, 11 goals (inc 2 penalties)

Not necessarily causal, but I’d have a suspicion that it’s a least a bit causal. 

Stating the mathematically obvious, but as we get closer to the end of the season, the room for us to move up or down significantly, reduces. We’d need to get past 8 teams to reach the play offs and 8 teams would need to get past us for us to be relegated. Bottom 3 are cut adrift (despite QPR’s form) and would need to improve their form season to date to get past us, even if we lose every remaining game. If Norwich continue their season to date form, we’d need a run along the lines of W9 D2 L1 to get past them, nothing suggests that’s likely. Clearly teams won’t all follow their season to date form, point is that as the team positioned exactly halfway between playoffs and relegation, in 14th, we’re probably the least likely team to bothering either this season. 

They don’t look like a side that’s struggling, decent on the ball and strong, albeit not created too much. For stats fans we’re 2nd in the first half table and Cardiff are bottom, second half they’re 18th and we’re 20th, so on form we’ve missed our best opportunity. Not many having great games, we’ve defended resolutely, but need to do better with possession and being strong with second balls. Assume the theory is Wells comes on against tiring centre backs after Bell has run them around, don’t mind that theory, would just worry a little about Sam’s confidence. Overall, even at half time a pretty fair reflection and not surprising we look a little lacklustre after Tuesday. 

Luton’s form this season would equate to 73 points. To match them we’d need to have a run in along the lines of W9 D2 L2. Is that impossible? Clearly not. Is that likely? Very clearly not, given current form. And that relies on no significant pick up in form from any of the teams between us and Luton. If I was a bookie (and going with actual odds rather than following the money), I’d offer something like 50/1 or 66/1, occasionally horses win at those odds, but very rarely. 

31 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Zak learnt some very valuable lessons out there tonite, which can only lead to him being even better.  He was up against some of the finest footballers on the planet, and in the main, more than held his own.  I just hope that he sees it as a great education, which will allow him to further his career, and not pay any attention to kneejerk critics, who have no idea what their on about.  Much better, highly paid defenders have been tied in knots by De Bruyne and Co..........so well done Zak, you should be proud of yourself.   But make sure you study the video of the game, as it will a great lesson?  Ha!!

9 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I felt for him at times last night. Our movement and ability to give an option to the man in possession isn't always great. When he then breaks the line looks up and there's nothing on it makes it really difficult, he's left with a lump forward. He complained a couple of times last night , notably after he was caught in possession after a good little run.  Unlucky with the goal, but you can't leave that ball . A really learning moment , playing against possibly the best pressing side around, that also have brilliant movement and work ethic, it was tough. 

Some great posts on this thread, highlighting some of the nonsense spouted further up (by some). His ‘mistakes’ were usually due to being massively isolated, either in or out of possession. That’s not a criticism of his team mates either, it’s a reflection of playing against some of the best players in the world, who are organised into one of the best teams in the world.  Their organisation, skill levels and football intelligence to press effectively, close down passing options, create space for their team mates etc etc, is phenomenal and light years ahead of anyone we play against week in, week out. An ‘easy pass’ against Man City is entirely different to an ‘easy pass’ against QPR etc - they know what you’re going to do, before you do it. To say to Zak or any of the others “yep, it’s Man City, so please can you improve to their level overnight” is laughable. Lots of learning (and hopefully enjoyment) for the players and coaches, nothing whatsoever to criticise. 

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Vyner didn’t play badly. He hasn’t regressed. 

Indeed… if he can’t keep Man City at bay for 90 mins, how can he ever make it at mighty Championship level. Appears reasonably  isolated, but always some flat-earthers popping up to talk nonsense.

Gaining 8 points on one team is perfectly plausible if we remain strong and they fall away - but getting past 9 teams, each with a head start on us, would require very strong form. Having got rid of losses (for now at least), we’d also need to reduce draws significantly. Not sure a Burnley-esque run of form is likely, but if we have one, play offs are in reach. Worse form than heroic and we’ll be beaten to the play-offs by one of the other nine having a slightly better run than us (or the same/worse, but maintaining their existing advantage). Not sure 20/1 is terrible value, accepting bookies will be pricing over round, 25/1 or 33/1 maybe more mathematically accurate. 

Optimistically hoping NP’s possible ACL reference was to make a point about how the ref/linesman handled it, ie pretty much ignoring a potentially significant injury. 

Just now, ralphindevon said:

Hopefully not too long as we’ve already got enough points to stay up if you take last season’s table as a yardstick 

Indeed, Cardiff and the bottom 2 on track for 43 points. 

27 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

This might not sit well but I think it’s a good deal with 18 months left, but I don’t think he’s a premier league player yet, if Bournemouth are relying on him to score enough to keep them up i believe they will be disappointed (gladly proved wrong) . I’m a big fan of Semenyo and is a good championship player and hope he becomes a huge success, it’s a positive move for him and a life changing salary increase for him and his family. I tend not post controversial points of view as I see enough mud slinging on this forum and refuse to be drawn in,  but just my opinion for what it’s worth.  

Agree with this. With the Ouattara deal and then Antoine, looks like a team that expects to go down, so let’s get some talent with plenty of upside potential and if they turn out to be Prem ready and we stay up (1 point off 14th after all) that’s a bonus. If actually panicking and all about staying up, surely £30m would be better spent on a loan fee for a decent talent from a top 6 club and more oven ready, or bringing in an experienced journeyman who might not rip up the Prem, but could get a goal here or there to ensure safety in a very tight league? Very difficult to be confident in Antoine from day one given still looks raw in the Championship, but might be an absolute bargain that could have a Toney-esque impact in the Prem in 24/25. Seems like a sensible deal for all concerned, just not sure it’s quite the “yikes, we gotta stay up” panic that a Jan deal with multiple bids might imply. 

Maybe not a statistically valid sample, but we seem to be doing reasonably well at persisting with the right players as they come through and being prepared to let some go. Think all of Zak, Cam, Antoine and Sam have not always looked like they’d make it, but we’ve persisted with them (maybe too many loans in some cases, but equally maybe that was needed) and now all 4 look - to varying degrees, as Sam still has a way to go - plausible Championship players. And of those from the youth set up that we’ve let go, not sure any are rocking the football world at a higher standard? Some good judgment shown by Tins in particular, but wider youth set up and first team coaching group as well. 

6 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Been absolutely brilliant recently - what a season for him so far.

Another good game yesterday, but, sorry, for balance...surprised not mentioned yet...Blackburn's goal (yes, a few others' defending is under the spot light and more popular players to criticise have been in this thread) but he is a bit guilty of ball watching there for me: he see's Dack ghosting in, steps across, but then gets dragged towards the ball and gives Dack that yard he needed.

Split second decisions, defend the area v defend the player. Maybe i'm being harsh. Maybe someone else should be tracking Dack in. But had he held off a yard there, it wouldn't have been a tap in for Dack, he might have had to take a touch etc etc...what do our OTIB coaches think @Davefevs @spudski?

But yes, agree with the thread and have been saying the same for sometime, he's developing very nicely indeed.

Think that is pretty harsh, he goes to defend to most obvious ball as the CD closest to the near post. If he pulls out to try and pick up Dack then he’s leaving the ball across completely unguarded and he can’t be expected to see everything behind him. He can expect those behind behind him with a better view of how it’s unfolding to do a better job of getting to Dack. That said, given most goals can be stopped with better defending and that one certainly could have, it was also a pretty good goal - decent run, good ball threaded through, good awareness to pull back and a neat finish.