ChippenhamRed

33 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Blimey. I was asked directly how we can make it affordable for those who need financial support to enable them attend. It was just a suggestion.

Not everyone is on benefits by choice. It seems you are pandering to the Daily Mail trope that anyone on benefits is lazy and spend it all on booze and fags. Many are disabled and unable to work. Many have learning difficulties. Some have had to give up work to become a carer. Others have suffered mental trauma. Are you saying we should do NOTHING to make football more accessible to such people?

I have already argued on this thread against OAP discount as an outdated notion based on wealth distribution across the UK. There are no easy answers, but I was simply arguing for a way to make football accessible to as many people as possible, based on need rather than crude age-based discount. You might not like the suggestion, but I stand by that as well intentioned, and your attack is completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

 

Your response to this is a LAUGH emoji @RedM?! Seriously? You think that’s a grown up and appropriate response to the points being made?

Good grief.

4 hours ago, RedM said:

Why should people on benefits get discounted tickets? Isn't football a hobby? No matter how you sugar coat this it's not a necessity.

Benefits from my understanding should only cover basic needs, food, warmth, transport. Not fags, booze, drugs, betting and Sky TV, and now football???!!! If people on benefits want those things they work for them or save up like everyone else!

Blimey. I was asked directly how we can make it affordable for those who need financial support to enable them attend. It was just a suggestion.

Not everyone is on benefits by choice. It seems you are pandering to the Daily Mail trope that anyone on benefits is lazy and spend it all on booze and fags. Many are disabled and unable to work. Many have learning difficulties. Some have had to give up work to become a carer. Others have suffered mental trauma. Are you saying we should do NOTHING to make football more accessible to such people?

I have already argued on this thread against OAP discount as an outdated notion based on wealth distribution across the UK. There are no easy answers, but I was simply arguing for a way to make football accessible to as many people as possible, based on need rather than crude age-based discount. You might not like the suggestion, but I stand by that as well intentioned, and your attack is completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

15 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

At the first look at those figures, it does look like those houses on the ‘90s where cheap, but that’s only half the picture isn’t it?  Interest rates have been low for a long time now, but even in the ‘90s were still pretty high.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that £50,000 house would have really cost nearer £150,000 when you factor in the high interest rate repaid on the mortgage.  Probably not much different to now in real terms.

I certainly sympathise with the young ones now, but in truth, we’ve already been there ourselves.  House buying has always been really painful and the biggest financial committment most of us will ever have in their lives.  I think it’s safe to say it’s really tough for anyone to do, regardless of when it was tbh.

“Probably not much different to now in real terms”. Good grief!

Quite incredible that you’re still trying to defend the idea that houses aren’t much more expensive now than they used to be.

Its already been explained to you that higher interest rates on a much lower value house are no more painful than today’s more modest rates on a much higher value house.

Using your example, anyone buying that £50k house today will have to pay closer to £200k for it. They will also have to pay a lot more than that after interest. And salaries haven’t kept up - nowhere near.

The cost of housing today is a million miles away from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/compare?print=true&from=1999-12-31&to=2019-04-16&location[]=W92000004&location[]=E92000001&st=all&in=avg

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I go to the gym. 50 quid a month so less than my season tickets cost me.

I can go and have use of the gym whenever I want. Use of the swimming pool, use of the sauna and steam room and hydro pool. 

And yet 4 hours of Championship football a month costs more plus it comes with associated travel costs etc. 

And here's them wanting to shift us to more expensive areas

It's the ultimate piss take. Charge is more to watch the shit show that they have created. 

I'll wait til were back in League One, because thats the way we are heading. They'll be desperate to let me and others have a SS season ticket then. 

They have totally read the room wrong on this. 

 

The gym just isn’t a fair comparison. It’s not entertainment, it’s just access to facilities. They’re just totally different things.

I’m not defending the price increases but the comparisons have to be reasonable.

How much would it cost to go to four hours of live music a month at the equivalent professional level? Four hours of theatre? Four hours of another sport?

40 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It's fine to say it's outdated but how do you introduce something that benefits people who need it,

I dont mind tearing a system down but you need ti offer something to replace it

Further up I proposed a loyalty discount increasing each year. That would be one measure.

The fairest way would probably be a discount for those on government benefits, but I’m not sure if that could realistically be implemented. It’s the only real way to identify those who need the help, although some might argue it’s not a reasonable threshold.

4 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

This is also a good one.

Yep. I’m 40 now and feel fortunate that my wife and I were just about able to afford our first house back in 2007 - based on a joint income - and have just about managed to climb the ladder since. But it’s even worse now and just impossible for many young people today.

8 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

So in summary, I think we are in an age where people like to rewrite history and if enough young people convince themselves that current pensioners had it so easy then it must be true, when that was actually far from the truth in most cases

Payback time will come when they themselves reach pension age and the next generation of young ‘uns are telling them that THEY had it so easy!!!

Ah yes, the old “but interest rates were 15%” argument.

They were, but it was 15% on a much smaller sum relative to incomes. The table below shows the effective interest rate over the past few decades when taking that into consideration. What it means is that today’s interest rates are now a very similar financial burden on homeowners to that 15% peak. And that’s on top of the cost of living crisis.

I am not pretending for one second that all pensioners are rich. And indeed every generation faces its challenges. But nothing I have said “rewrites history”, and it remains undeniable that - overall - wealth distribution in the UK today is skewed towards older generations - which is why a broad-brush discount for OAPs is so outdated.

44 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

You’re doing a lot of generalisation in labelling pensioners as ‘one of the wealthiest groups in society’ and also not sure where their ‘pretty easy ride’ has come from either.

Sure there are some who are well off, as there are people in every area of society, but there are plenty of pensioners who struggle to make ends meet, especially as many can have failing health issues to add to their problems too.

Don’t forget most pensioners have had around 50 years paying taxes and National Insurance, so aren’t exactly getting something for nothing.

When you’re talking about a huge sectors of society based solely on their age, then generalisation is unavoidable and appropriate. And it is absolutely and demonstrably true that they are one of the wealthiest groups in society - see the chart below.

The “easy ride” refers to the fact that today’s pensioners are not survivors of the war. They are baby boomers. They have benefitted from affordable housing and the house price boom that is so crippling for younger generations now. They could raise a family on a single income when now it takes two if you want to own a family home - and all the childcare costs that go with that. They were able to go to university for free, rather than leave with enormous debt. Many of them have final salary pensions and will likely have retired younger than today’s working population.

Yes, it is true to say that not all pensioners are wealthy and many struggle. But that is the case across all age groups. And it absolutely true - in broad terms - to say that pensioners are the wealthiest group in a society.

3 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

I agree, even though I’m heading towards that stage of life at what seems a rapid rate.

It would be important to look after those olduns that are struggling financially though, of which I’m sure there’s loads in south Bristol alone. 

2 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

I manage a gym right now for work and this is so spot on. Pensioners get a discounted rate and are the ONLY group that moan about the fees. They pay around 250 bob less per annum than someone in their early 20s. This group complains the most, is dissatisfied with immaterial somethings the most, and it is truly remarkable that those in that bracket have so many benefits living in the UK, yet still find so much to bemoan (in my opinion). This gym is in a rather well off area and many elder members are extremely wealthy, I know for a fact from conversations with them. Chris Martin is also a regular as it goes. 

Rather than it being a flat rate for seniors, it should definitely be a discounted rate for years of service following the club. 

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Completely agree - the group they need to nail down are the 18-30 group. That’s a group of people who are going without parents, and eventually become/will become parents that will introduce their own children to the club.

They have been really rough hand - and don’t have the disposable income lots of pensioners do. They do an awful lot for young kids and pensioners - but not much for young adults.

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Of course I agree with the thrust of your post. I uoted @ChippenhamRed who made the case about how the flat rate for discounts for pensioners is a bit silly considering the economic situation of the country. 

I do also meet every day pensioners who struggle to pay bills and struggle to pay for gym membership, where being able to offer a discount is a delight, and I do feel proud to give those people a realistically very good price to use a gym and pool. 

I think we agree that the 60+ group deserve something from their eternal support of a shit football team, and a discount to ST prices is absolutely reasonable. I just think it should be built as a percentage from how many years you've had a ST (surely the club will have this data)?

Thanks for refreshingly grown up responses to the OAP discount issue. I mentioned similar on twitter and got some utter nonsense thrown back at me by people who seem think someone born in 1955 fought in the war or something.

Pensioner discount definitely needs to be revised to reflect loyalty rather than simply age. My Dad - with no mortgage, a final salary pension, plenty of savings and a house worth about twenty times what he paid for it - really doesn’t need a discount more than your average 20-something faced with huge rent and often little prospect of buying their own home. The world has changed.

2 hours ago, 54-46 said:

Say the same every year but I really wish there was some recognition of fan loyalty whereby a sliding scale of discount is offered relative to consecutive years you've been a ST holder.

Also - really dont understand the reduced prices for over 65s.  Most of them have far more disposible income than someone still bringing up kids and paying a hefty mortgage.  I said most, not all, before the old duffers get on my case......

  

I won’t be popular for saying this but OAP discount is a completely outdated notion given the distribution of wealth by age group in the UK in 2024.

There are - of course - many who are not well off across all age groups, including pensioners. But a broadly applied discount based solely on age must be broadly applicable, and it simply isn’t any more. It would be fairer to distribute that reduction across all age groups, and introduce a loyalty discount increasing with each year which would recognise the long serving (suffering) nature of our oldest supporters.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/distributionofindividualtotalwealthbycharacteristicingreatbritain/april2018tomarch2020

I know it’s not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but why are we such a strange club? We seem dysfunctional so often and this is just another example. Why don’t we have people capable of making basic decisions or organising simple things like a squad photo at the start of the season - not near the end?

How can we ever hope to scale Everest and achieve promotion…when we can’t even tie our own laces on our walking boots?

Just catching up, been out all day and wasn’t at the game. If ever there was an unwelcome three points, it sounds like it might have been today. I worry these sort of empty victories just buy Manning more time to do more damage.

Starting to think it might be better is we lose to Swansea, if that means Manning gets sacked.

Someone will be along in a second to say "I never want my team to lose"....but if you want the best for the club in the long term, sometimes you can see it as a necessary evil for the greater good.

Having said all that - Manning is only a part of the problem, Tinnion and Crayon Boy need to go too.

Just now, Andy082005 said:

Welcome to my world 

It took you a while - but everyone gets here eventually 

I guess my threshold for hating everything is just a bit higher than yours Andy.

38 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

The announced attendance is simply tickets sold, not those actually in attendance - as it is at literally every other club in the country.

I know, that’s why it’s ridiculous!

1 minute ago, pillred said:

We are 6 points clear, and have you seen our upcoming fixtures?

Yes but there are 11 teams below us and 9 of them would need to make up that gap. I think we’ll be fine.

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Nah. I’ve been making similar arguments to this for a while but today was a turning point for me. It was simply unacceptable. He’s also incredibly uninspiring. He needs to go.

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They were streaming out by then

Even so, loads of gaps all afternoon in a sold out stand. They’re the cheapest tickets in the stadium but rarely available, it’s annoying.

(Aside from the fact that I wouldn’t actually want to pay anything right now)

2 minutes ago, PFree said:

Like most on here I am gutted by today’s result (and the last three terrible games overall) and can’t help but feel down as I suspect Manning football is always going to be predictable and boring. That said I believe the importance for now is that we need at least 11 points from our final 11 games and can now see it being really close, sadly, we are looking down now out of necessity.

I see it as follows...

Tue, Mar 5th – Ipswich Town A LOSS
Sat, Mar 9th – Swansea City H DRAW
Sat, Mar 16 – West Bromwich Albion A LOSS
Fri, Mar 29th – Leicester City H LOSS

APRIL

Mon, Apr 1st – Plymouth Argyle A LOSS or DRAW
Sat, Apr 6th – Sunderland A LOSS
Wed, Apr 10th – Blackburn Rovers H DRAW
Sat, Apr 13th – Huddersfield Town H WIN
Sat, Apr 20th – Norwich City A LOSS
Sat, Apr 27th – Rotherham United H WIN

MAY

Sat, May 4th – Stoke City A DRAW

I see us getting around 9 or 10 points more, bit concerning hey

 

Give up the predictions. Manning is failing, but who predicted we’d beat Boro and Southampton and then lose three in a row to QPR, Wednesday and Cardiff? It just doesn’t ever go like we expect it to in the Championship.

30 minutes ago, headhunter said:

With an announced attendance today of 24035,  taking out Cardiff and our season tickets I reckon that's around 7000 who elected to "pay on the day".

I've noticed in recent months an increase in the empty seats in the South Stand - are they mainly season ticket holders who make up the announced attendance even though they don't turn up?

If yes and if this form continues then I can see a 20% fall off in attendances next season - mainly season ticket holders but also POTD

That announced attendance is an absolute joke.

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The amount of empty seats in the sold out South Stand today is just ridiculous.

Cheapest seats in the ground, rarely available to members or infrequent attendees. Club need to do something about it.

So what’s the excuse for this today then? Weekend fixture, fairly big game, loads of youth football cancelled so you’d think if the kids are ever going to come, it would be today.

Is it just that we’re crap? Because we’ve been crap plenty of times before and not seen it that empty.

Don’t get it.

3 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

 

 

 

When are people going to wake up and realise that the problem sits at the feet of the owner of this football club, he's made nothing short of maybe 2 decent decisions in his what 25 years at City, he needs to **** off out of this club and fast before another 10 years goes by of achieving absolutely nothing but regression.

 

 

 

 

When are people going to wake up and realise that the problem sits at the feet of the owner of this football club, he's made nothing short of maybe 2 decent decisions in his what 25 years at City, he needs to **** off out of this club and fast before another 10 years goes by of achieving absolutely nothing but regression.

 

 

 

 

When are people going to wake up and realise that the problem sits at the feet of the owner of this football club, he's made nothing short of maybe 2 decent decisions in his what 25 years at City, he needs to **** off out of this club and fast before another 10 years goes by of achieving absolutely nothing but regression.

 

 

 

 

When are people going to wake up and realise that the problem sits at the feet of the owner of this football club, he's made nothing short of maybe 2 decent decisions in his what 25 years at City, he needs to **** off out of this club and fast before another 10 years goes by of achieving absolutely nothing but regression.

 

We heard you the first time!!!

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

He's the football equivalent of Liz Truss!

Let’s hope once again that the lettuce lasts longer.

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Thats kind of my point mate.

I know, I was agreeing with you!