cidered abroad

1 hour ago, mason said:

BUT I disagree "the club" is now part of something else so its not the same, we rent the stadium and have no say over its uses or income. We have "top brass" who seem content to stay just where we are and seem frightened to go for the final step up.

A proven high level manager is discarded and not backed with suitible funds to make the jump up, while they prefer to take on a 3rd level manager and build again.

While king pins of previously built teams are sold off and we are left fed with just hope and words of better things to come, they havent yet Steve/Jon

 

WE DO NOT RENT ASHTON GATE FOOTBALL GROUND!

The only employees of Bristol City Football Club are players and coaches. Probably not the Tea Lady/Man. Possibly the medical staff? Thus we have to pay our share of the stadium use for all those formerly paid by City and now employed by and paid by Bristol Sport, and most of that is an exemption (I guess) of spending and not counted for FFP.

@mason

3 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

So, FWIW, here’s my ‘two-penneth’. 
 

i liked Nige, I wanted him to stay longer. 
 

The way the top brass dumped him was shameful. 
 

JL poured petrol in the fire talking about ‘top 6’ etc.  BUT

The club I support today is the same club I have supported for about 60 years now, I wish nothing but good things for them. 
 

We have a new coaching team and I desperately hope they will bring the team success. All I can do to help that goal is support them. It’s not much, but it is my gift to give, and I will (continue) to give it willingly. COYRs. 

Good post @Southport Red

The game has changed so much in my 74 watching years. The change from all the time spent by both sides in each others penalty areas to back fours playing keep all is really annoying.

However all the developments in tactics are based on coaches trying to minimise goals against and increase goals for. Boring going from a throw in near opponents corner flag to our keeper is the way it is. We either get used to it or sit at home watching crap TV.

I may not like it but I'll keep on going until they screw the lid down. COYREDS

Let's give Liam Manning a chance to bed himself in at City.

Some 56 years ago Harry Dolman employed a real novice, Alan Dicks, as club manager. Ask any City supporter of any age, who was the most successful City manager since 1945. Answer from well over 95%, would be AD.

Then ask those of us who are still breathing, their opinion of him at the start of season 1970-71. Probably a large percentage would have said "Sack him"!

I know that life was a bit slower back then and now everything must happen at the speed of sound. I didn't want Pearson to leave but that's yesterday. LM deserves at least a couple of months before we start showing our dissatisfaction.

9 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

May I ask what people expected him to say?  

Manning is the new head coach on the block. So why would anyone expect him to be anything but cautious about any questions or comments. I liked his predecessor but he hardly rushed into any answers until  the last few weeks of his time here.

Manning will be cautious until he's been here some time. Even though the Lansdown's employed him, he will not want to upset them. And even above them his prime objective at present is to win the trust and confidence of the players. Honest opinions may be exchanged in the in the privacy of the training centre but to make damaging comments in public are not on.

3 hours ago, redysteadygo said:

Prior to Fairfax House Mum used to drag us all to the Co-ops on Castle St. First to collect her accumulated dividend, then spend the vouchers in the Co-op stores. I can still remember Mum's and Grandad's dividend numbers   **1** and **2**( not going to divulge them on here).

One for the oldies.

Well I never! My mother always went to the Co-op on Castle Street which looked very lonely as only four buildings left after Uncle Adolf's bombers had visited. Where I had my first football boots and every scrap of clothing.

I still use her Co-op membership number as one of my codes for use in a world where we all need endless pin numbers etc.

On 16/11/2023 at 10:24, CliftonCliff said:

Think you’re allowed a small digression: they’re quite good fun during a slow news week, aren’t they, these little nostalgic trips down memory lane? 
 

Again, the Man C games came after I’d  hung up my travelling boots, but I was at Forest. Another one for the archives. Both the away and home legs  were fantastic games, in fact, and incredibly close.

After some of the depressing and infuriating rubbish of a week or two ago, it’s actually therapeutic to be reminded of some of the highs of an adult lifetime spent following City.

 

 

 

What about the start of the climb back?

Chester City to go up from Div 4.

A very proud day for Sam, Mickey his father, his mother, City fans everywhere.

That is two City youngsters who have played at England under 20 level. Plus those who have been selected for Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

I know that the outlook for our club is not all bright and sunny at this moment but there are so many things that remind me of a time just over fifty years ago.

Quality youth in abundance and a young manager / coach who servedserved their apprenticeships with quality seniors teaching them.

20 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Away days an extreme rarity for me these days (I’m getting into my late 70s) and it’s been that way for a long time, but I was keen when much younger and clocked up a few. Without getting bogged down in the nitpicking about what counts and what doesn’t, my total’s in the low forties.
 

Totting them up and reading the nostalgia trips of others brought back some good old memories. I think we should give ourselves a pat on the back: we’ve all put our shift in at some point in our history and God knows it hasn’t always been a bed of roses.

If I had to pick the outstanding moments, they would have to include the first ever appearance at Wembley under dear old Coops, the unforgettable (and controversial ) evening at Highfield Road, when City & Coventry effectively stopped playing to ensure both teams stayed up with a draw, and perhaps the sweetest moment of all, a victory at Chester, again under TC, to ensure promotion back to the third tier after the most catastrophic few years in the club’s history. What a day that was!

I'm the same as you at 80. I had a great father who spent his earnings on his two children rather than going to the pub every night. So my first away match was an FA Cup at St Andrews in 1951. We lost 2-0 and from then to now they rate as the club I most dislike as we hardly ever beat them.

Keep the faith @CliftonCliff

3 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

What about playing Naismith as the 1, in this formation?

https://jobsinfootball.com/blog/tactics/4-1-3-2-formation/

The 4-1-3-2 Formation: Its Uses, Benefits, and Weaknesses
11 Jun, 2022

In our ongoing series explaining some of the best soccer formations used in the modern game, we've tackled a wide range of systems. Some are currently being used by the world's best teams (the 4-3-3 formation, for instance), while others are a little less common or tied to a different footballing era.

The shape we're focusing on in this article falls into the second category. The 4-1-3-2 system isn't particularly common, and there aren't too many prominent examples of modern teams using it effectively. That being said, it has numerous benefits, and it can pose serious problems when an opposition team isn't sure how to defend against it.

In this article, we'll present you with a comprehensive guide to the fundamentals of the 4-1-3-2 formation, the strengths and weaknesses of this system, and some examples of clubs and managers that have been known to use it. Later on, we'll also explore the best ways to exploit and defend against this formation. But first, let's start with the basics.

 

How to play the 4-1-3-2 formation
Typically used by teams looking to dominate the final third of the pitch, 4-1-3-2 is generally seen as a very attacking formation. In a sense, it's a variation of the 4-4-2 shape, with the composition of the midfield tweaked a little bit.

4-1-3-2 starts with a back four of two center-backs, a right-back, and a left-back. It uses just one central defensive midfielder to shield this defensive line (sometimes referred to as a single pivot). The protection given by this central midfield player is super important, because the full-backs in this system will often be encouraged to get forward, leaving the middle of the defensive line a little exposed.

In front of the defensive mid pivot in a 4-1-3-2 are five relatively attack-minded players who concentrate largely on working the ball into advanced areas of the pitch. This emphasis on offensive play means 4-1-3-2 can be super effective when it comes to creating chances and exploiting opposition defenses. Let's drill into those 5 roles in a little more detail.

The 3 attacking midfielders in a 4-1-3-2 structure will often be relatively narrow, their focus on linking up with each other and feeding the two strikers in front of them. In the center of this 3, there will usually be a primary playmaker, with the left and right attacking midfielders on either side of them tasked with supporting them and engaging in more box-to-box play.

Finally, the two strikers at the head of this shape will be able to press opposition defenders aggressively and win the ball high up the pitch. Having two forwards will reduce the chance of isolation, particularly given that they're supported by 3 attacking midfielders. This plethora of offensive options means the 4-1-3-2 formation can run opponents ragged and create wave after wave of attack. But what other advantages does this formation have?

What are the strengths of the 4-1-3-2 formation?
Out of all the formations we've regularly seen used on the world stage, this is one of the systems most clearly crafted with attacking intentions in mind. Essentially, it's an attack-minded variation of 4-4-2 which ensures attacking power while also narrowing the midfield in order to reduce the risk of getting overrun in the center.

Out of possession, the 3 more attacking central midfielders can drop back to form a compact shape in the middle of the park. And even in these moments, it's possible for the front 2 to stay high, press opposition defenders, and provide an attacking outlet.

In possession, the space left out wide by the narrow midfield can be filled by full-backs, who are often relied upon to provide attacking width and play balls in behind the opposition defense. Meanwhile, the defensive support offered by the single central midfield pivot gives freedom to the 5 players ahead. While this CDM sits deep, cuts out attacks, and passes the ball forwards, the attacking midfielders and strikers can get high up the pitch and create dangerous chances.

What are the weaknesses of the 4-1-3-2 formation?
We've already mentioned the narrow nature of this formation, and while this can provide some advantages, it's also a potential area of weakness for any team that plays 4-1-3-2. If a midfield 3 becomes too narrow, it can be difficult to create moves via the wings, particularly if your central midfielders find themselves dropping into a diamond shape, or if you don't have fast, skillful attacking full-backs able to provide width.

This potential for exposure in wide positions means that teams who play with this formation can be vulnerable to fast counter-attacks. With only one defensive-minded central midfielder in action, it's possible for a defense to become overrun when faced with a swift, effective counter-attacking side.

Compared with 4-4-2, the 4-1-3-2 shape reduces the risk of surrendering possession to the opposition midfield, because with attacking central midfielders instead of wingers, there are more players in the middle of the pitch. Ultimately, though, it's still a midfield 4 in operation here; when coming up against a midfield 5, the risk of the opponents dominating possession is still very much present.

Which clubs and managers have used this formation?
We've mentioned how this isn't the most commonly used formation in world soccer, but there are a couple of interesting recent examples of how this shape can work brilliantly...

Croatia, Slaven Bilic
The Croatian coach, whose CV includes stints at Besiktas, West Ham United, and West Bromwich Albion, managed his national team between 2006 and 2012. During this time, one of the side's most memorable achievements was beating Steve McClaren's England team 3-2 at Wembley to top their Euro 2008 qualifying group and prevent England from making it to the tournament.

Croatia's triumph at Wembley came down partly to their employment of an innovative 4-1-3-2 system. This formation helped Bilic's team get the best out of a group of skillful players that included Luka Modric, Ivan Rakitic, Nico Kranjcar, and Ivica Olic. The use of 3 attacking midfield players allowed talents such as Modric and Rakitic to link up in a fluid playmaking system that gave great support to the team's two forwards, Olic and Eduardo.

Manchester City, Roberto Mancini
A few other well-respected managers have used this system at the highest level. Italian manager Roberto Mancini utilized the benefits of the 4-1-3-2 shape at various points during the 2011-12 season, in which he led Manchester City to their first ever Premier League title. This formation allowed him to squeeze in an abundance of attacking talents including Yaya Toure, David Silva, Samir Nasri, Edin Dzeko, and Sergio Aguero.

Sporting Benfica, Jorge Jesus
Portuguese coach Jorge Jesus has implemented a 4-1-3-2 system at various different clubs. The most successful example was at Lisbon heavyweights Benfica, where he managed between 2009 and 2015. During this spell, the 4-1-3-2 formation helped him win an array of domestic trophies.

How should you play against a 4-1-3-2 system?
Due to the lack of regularity with which you see this formation in action, it can be hard to know exactly what will work against it. There are a few different paths that can be taken.

One of the best ways to play against a 4-1-3-2 shape is to heavily overload the flanks and take advantage of the gaps left out wide by this formation. Getting attacking players down the flanks can lead to 1 v 1 situations against those in the right-back and left-back positions. If these areas are relatively weak for your opposition, utilizing the wings is one of the best tactics available to you.

Another area of the pitch to focus on is center defensive midfield. Pushing two midfielders or forwards into the hole where the deep central midfielder is sitting can leave them outnumbered and isolated. This will often cause the playmaker in a 4-1-3-2 to drop back in order to help their teammate, which stops this supposedly attacking midfielder from doing their offensive job.

Employing these strategies can expose the weaknesses of the 4-1-3-2 shape and give you a good chance of beating it. Even when the strengths of a given system appear to outweigh its weaknesses, there are always things that can be done to negate your opposition's threat and give them something to think about. If you're keen to find out more about the fundamentals of soccer tactics and positional play, you should check out our guide to the best books about football coaching and tactics.

 

Thanks a million, Mr. Manning.

19 hours ago, petehinton said:

Sorry yes totally agree. Didn’t mean to come across accusational, if it did!

Its all very messy isn’t it. I know that the clubs (probably Tinnion) golden North Star is to have an entire starting 11 from the academy, and all being good enough to do it consistently, not just a token one off game. 
 

Absolute lunacy to try and work to that, also seemingly want to be top 6, with the owner saying we can basically sell a star player each window too. Nothing adds up at all. 

Your reference to have only our Academy boys in the first team. Thoroughly agree and while not trying to be critical of AD, he had so many that were very young when they started at City. Apart from Hunter, Royle and Cormack, the core of the team stayed together for five/six years. I believe that this was one of the reasons we slipped from 8th in the First in October 1979 to relegation by April. They were stale without fresh quality input.

I consider the ideal is for the squad to change each summer with a couple of Academy graduates and two from elsewhere. Not drastic changes to the team plan but enough (15 to 20%) to keep it fresh.

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Similar thread started by @spudski a few weeks back, where we all had similar thoughts.

Sorry, missed that one or cannot remember it. Senility creeping in?

All of you that have done so many grounds are true football fans. Although that doesn't lessen those who for various valid reasons have only been to a few.

I'd still walk across a road to see kids playing on the other side.

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, mainly referring to your use of “partnerships” or pairings….I’m big on this….and I don’t think we see enough of them.

My Bell and Conway reference is slightly facetious, but I do wonder whether the two could bring more out of each other playing close(r) together.  I think you could perm any two more effectively than playing the three the way we do.  But that’s just me.

The format of three strikers playing up front but spread across the total width is almost going back to the 2-3-5 that was played before Alf Ramsey changed it to 4-4-2.

Of the front five, the two wingers hugged the touchline and the centre forward generally stayed in the middle. At the back it was two full backs with a centre half so in effect the 2-3-5 actually was 3-4-3 with wing halves and inside forwards filling the middle between defence and attack.

Similar to what Pearson played but without the four midfielders attempting to swamp the opponents defence - usually one or at most two. So how can a striker like Conway get his goals with only crosses from wingers to him alone. I dread to think how many less that Big John would never have scored.

We shouldn't throw caution to the wind but we have to be much more positive in our attacking to win games. And try going through the middle a bit more.

Here goes.

Football League clubs at time of visit to see City playing: 78, from all four divisions

Of those grounds I also saw matches not involving City at 20 of them.

City Cup matches at Wembley and Cardiff

Scotland, none involving City : 9

Overseas stadiums to see matches, International and domestic league:

Berlin, Cardiff, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon.

I won't be doing any more away matches as I find distance driving very tiring. Just going to Ashton Gate and I'm asleep in the chair for the evening. I'll still try to see one rugby international per season at Cardiff as I get a train there and back.

I've always enjoyed going to see any match and meeting the home fans even at Millwall. I remember a trip to Barnsley and their fans were brilliant hosts in the bar, to one of ours who was at the last one of the 92.

And being able to see some of the great players of the world.

Bobby Charlton demolishing Wales at Cardiff, Di Stefano, Eusebio and Puskas at Wembley, the double winners of 1961, Spurs, slaughtering Gornik of Poland 8-1 in their first home European cup match. And three German world cup winners for Inter Milan at Villa Park.

Last evening I saw Alex Stepney on TV at Charlton's funeral and remembered seeing him at Ashton Gate for Millwall when the whole crowd clapped him off the pitch for a truly magnificent display of goalkeeping. A few months later, Man U bought him.

I leave the best until last. I saw Atyeo's first and last games for City and hundreds in between. My hero as a footballer and a person.

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s really windy out today, and that’s at “sea level”, ok Downend, dread to think what it will be like up at the HPC.

Try walking let alone playing football on the beach at Burnham on Sea. Thank goodness it's blowing west to east otherwise I'd be eating breakfast in Cardiff after the dog walk!

Yet another example of the tightening of the purse strings at Bristol City. Do the Women's team stand any chance of staying up?

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I remember a load of Mancs on our Bus, gobby lot.

I was in the East End for the Emanuel goal , as a young teenager didn't hang around after that game.

I was there. Dolman in the block nearest Covered End.

And also at Old Trafford to see the Mabbutt hat trick. Oh those days!

12 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Following his appointment I read a post asking whether he'd actually played professionally ( in response to his 20 or so years coaching).

When I was in financial services it was often said that the best salespeople invariably don't make the best sales managers. Different qualities and skills are required for each roll.

Many top players are expected to succeed in management or coaching because of their experience of being coached/managed by top coaches and managers. Despite this, many fail.

I'd like to think that Manning's coaching experience and knowledge,despite his age, is of greater value in his roll than would be having played at the top of the game.

 

One very good example of a great manager who never played professional football is Lawrie McMacMennamy of Southampton.

Absolutely no comparison with each other.

Manning had a very short career as a player but has spent nearly two decades in coaching and not only in this country.

Johnson played for his father for 90% of his career. Nuff said.

26 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I make that my 23rd appointed full time, not caretaker/interim manager as an attending City fan.

If you started supporting City between Oct 1967 and September 1980 you’ll have the same number as me, such was the longevity of Alan Dicks.

The first man on that list took us to the top, good luck Liam, here’s hoping you become the next. 

Amazingly @ralphindevon there were only four managers in my first thirty one years beginning in 1950. Pat Beasley, promotion, Peter Doherty, responsible for relegation but sacked before it happened. Fred Ford promotion and AD with promotion to Div One and also partly responsible for three relegations in a row even if he'd gone after first drop.

Eight up and seven down. Will Manning be responsible for a return to top tier before they screw the lid down?

7 minutes ago, Oakleyson said:

Wow! Is it him or a very similar Monsieur?

19 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

 

Announce @TomF!!

I might go for @Major Isewater because he makes me laugh and I haven't had much entertainment at City since I started going in 1967 

 

EDIT: Yeah with @Rudolf Huckeras conditioning coach, he'd give them plenty of exercise arf arf #frontfoot #highpress

So you have seen six promotions and six relegations! 

I'm at eight up and seven down so am desperately hoping that I stay positive before I get dispatched in a wooden box.

Just now, BCFCGav said:

I’m warming to this idea. 
 

Though I’d be SO tempted to wait until next weekend to see if Cov pull the trigger on Robins. I know he’s a manager not a coach - but I really like him. 

No, Robins is not the one for us. If we cannot have an aged Pearson why should we have another one from Coventry?

If it is Manning it will be someone with fresh ideas and a real target to aim at.

Well done! To get an away win in any league is good and especially in a Premier League.