Clutton Caveman

13 hours ago, Harry said:

Personally I think the 2 home games so far under Manning have been more entertaining than most of the stuff served up in the last 4 years. 
We’ve had possession (yes sometimes slow), but it’s resulted in more shots and more shots on target. 
Hasn’t the main issue for most people in recent years been the lack of shots. Well, we’ve doubled the average in the last 2 home games. 

The reason it ‘felt’ like a boring game today was because the crowd was silent. Crowds and atmosphere have a huge influence on how people perceive the excitement levels of matches. If the game is played in virtual silence it seems to drag. 
 

Today, the chances created and general possession play was good - in the main. And Norwich also had a number of shots and hit the post. It wasn’t a boring game, but it was played in a very boring and silent arena. 

Its a Chicken and Egg situation. When the team produces boring football the crowd loses engagement and it goes quiet. On Sunday we were clutching at straws, every won tackle each corner each mini break the crowd got up but with the ball moving endlessly sideways and backwards just brings everybody down

18 hours ago, Robin101 said:

I’d actually be interested to read more about why this style of football suddenly seems to have completely swept through the football league like a new strain of Covid. 

Every team seems to try and play it. The best chances every team creates each week seems to be when they nick it off the opposition centre back trying to play like Xavi.

Is this Pep Guardiola’s influence or something else?

I think this style is on the way out in the Prem. Pep sticks with it but Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs have become far more direct.

17 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Not a case of Manning out, as it wasn’t with Pearson. The board though have dug themselves a large hole here and it’s them I would suggest is where the frustration lies. Not that it really matters as the Lansdown won’t give two hoots what the fans think. 
 

The reasoning may be different but this has the potential to be a similar situation to LJ. 

For me there is a problem of credibility. LM has very little. He has only coached for a short time at League 1 level. He is attempting a huge change in playing style. He replaced a coach that had the respect of the group. So if his new approach fails to bring results fairly soon, how long will he have the dressing room.

6 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

So here's my opinion. I think it's a clumsy use of language - he's young - he doesn't present himself well - I just wish he was more genuine. I don't think he's meaning culture per se. I think he's talking about mindset and responsibility.

Clearly, in that game the players didn't adapt to the way Norwich changed (my opinion) and they didn't step into another way of playing (which is what Manning talked about in previous interviews). He wants the players to take responsibility and find a way to win.

I'm actually behind this. You need leaders on the pitch to figure stuff out and shift what we're doing. Playing it slowly across the back 4 to Bell and Knight on the left wing, with Pring then coming to confuse matters isn't what he wants. I think this is what he was referencing. A couple of times in the second half we did what he wants - moved the ball at pace and pulled Norwich around. 

I think this will take time. Doing it in season, when you've been set up to be compact and hard to beat is tricky. Especially when he says in training they're mainly working on defensive shapes.

 

Buy what's happened to the Pring that would get up a head of steam and drive to the by line or into the box. No its seems its all about keep the ball at all costs and try to walk to ball into the net.

16 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s laughable. No mention of mindset and culture needing to change when Pearson was fired. It was all about the next manager tinkering and firing us up that league. Now it all needs ripping up and changing? If we’re going down that route how does he explain Vyner going from a Rolls Royce to a Trabant in the four games he’s been here? Can’t have your cake and eat it lad. Disappointing interview that is.

I wish he had said, " we haven't got any strikers and until we do we can 99% of the ball and draw 0.0." For me this a glaring point and no manager can be successful until it is fixed.

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

To an extent I agree with your rules! I don't have any beef with Liam Manning, know almost nothing about the bloke, except the style of football his sides have played. Good luck to him but since you mention it Jaap Stam era Reading is precisely what came to mind both yesterday and against Southampton. Regardless of the result that style of football is like watching paint dry. That said it clearly has its fans on this forum, fair play to them but it's not going to get me making many day long round trips to the Gate.

He promised, exciting football playing on the front foot. Sorry but the delivery is something quite different. When the ball spends more time with the 2 centre backs and the goalkeeper than anyone else, I get very bored. When he keeps playing Conway up front on his own with no good result and in the process destroying his confidence and when he can't see that Bell is shot and needs a lone at a lower level it worries me. Great to believe in a certain way to play but when the squad doesn't suit that system and we are not getting results we need a plan B. That is just not evident.

11 hours ago, cheese said:

Well, not sure this will be universally accepted but I thought the first half today was better than we were used to seeing under Nige.  There was better control in confined spaces and I thought that we always had an "out" ball.  We had players taking the ball between the lines and, with some better finishing could have been a couple of goals to the good.  I thought the "system" was working well but that the players didn't quite have the quality (or confidence maybe) to finish the job.

Second half, clearly Norwich made some adjustments to counter what they'd seen in the first half which made it more difficult.  Then they equalised with a freakish own goal and then Zak got caught out under the ball and with a player like Idah (who would walk into our team but can only make the Norwich bench) was a fatal mistake.

Against So'ton we could, and should, have been 2/3 goals up at half time.

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

My worry is the second half. Either LM's system is too physically demanding to maintain for 90 mins or the other teams figure us out and get on top. Knight looked knackered after the half time and so did many of the team. To play 90mins of LM ball needs massive concentration and also courage not to just hoof it in tight situations. In may opinion in recent weeks our key players stop making the runs in the second half and although we keep the ball we have it in the wrong areas of the pitch and it becomes really boring to watch.

On 29/11/2023 at 21:58, Silvio Dante said:

I posted at HT in the matchday thread that it was the best half of football under Liam - and one of the best of the season. Nobody could dispute that and if the game ends at 8:30, or if Tommy puts away one of two very good chances, or if there’s not a worldie save, again we’d be having a different conversation tonight.

But we’re not. 
 

The second half was as bad as it’s been this season. I’ve no doubt Liam asked them to keep doing what they were, but Southampton, as Boro did on Saturday, changed. Quicker press, quicker pace, and we didn’t react. Maybe that’s due to the players - maybe that’s due to the manager - but that’s now twice in a row we’ve been caught cold.

There are undoubted positive signs here. The first half has improved over the three games to date which gives me confidence Liam can get a message across on the training pitch and construct a good team. Against that, the second half has got progressively worse week on week. We had a good 20 post TGH entering against QPR, were largely under pressure against Boro and were dire today (against noted progressively better opponents).

There are a lot of questions at the moment. The key one for me is that we undoubtedly have a very good coach in initial setup but appear to have a glaring inability to react. And I’ll say again, Liam couldn’t turn MK Dons around when things weren’t working to his plan.

I’m not hitting the panic button yet. But I am seeing a pattern. And that pattern needs to change soon.

I think at the point opposition coaches don't yet know who we set up. After the first half they see what we are doing and adapt their style in the second half. As we play more, teams will see what others have done in the second half and do the same.

On 29/11/2023 at 22:44, cidercity1987 said:

Play Conway in his best position and we will be motoring. In the absence of any decent attacking midfielder he needs to be drifting off into that space to feed the wide players/striker in front of him.

I still think he is frightened to run flat out after the hamstring injury.

19 hours ago, Fuber said:

Woodrow played best at Barnsley in the 10 role, but iirc isn't physically that strong nor quick. Type of signing we'd make under MA on decent wages with no real chance of progression or sell on.

Conway is the better player for me in that role.

Need to look down the leagues like Al-Hamadi at Wombles with the view to next season with Liam having a full preseason with them imo. Same for Mehmeti to an extent.

Wouldn't be against a loan to buy option in Jan.

With Mehmeti we just need to teach him to kick with his left foot. He is soooo predictable with the ball at his feet always having to check onto his right foot. Defenders wake up to this and send hi down blind alleys. Perhaps with LM's promise to improve current players Mehmeti can learn that the left foot has a use other than standing.

On 29/11/2023 at 21:53, BCFCGav said:

Struggling this season aren’t they? Really good set of options on paper but just not happening for any of them. 
 

Bell is anonymous when on the pitch of late, and Conway is really struggling to find his killer instinct from last season. Mehmeti can also really struggle to get into games. You’d be forgiven for not realising when Weimann has come on!

I’d say Sykes and Cornick are the the ones whose levels have more or less held from last season, and I’d be giving Cornick a start on Sunday.

I wonder - does Wells bring out the best from those around him? I think we miss him more than some realise.

Cornick brings a whole new meaning to headless chicken but I agree that Wells by his experience improves the others around him. The big lad from Bora who scored the second goal shows just what we are lacking

On 30/11/2023 at 07:32, Olé said:

Yeah there were a few idiots there last night and if it helps that wasn't my first away match.

Some of the absolute bollocks they came out with was embarrassing. First time on the beers.

I think part of the problem is some people can't seem to enjoy a game unless they are off their face on alcohol or white stuff. Great to have a couple pre game beers with friends but is it really necessary to be s*** faced?

20 hours ago, SomeRandomBristolian said:

I was doing some thinking on the coach on the way back from Southampton last night. It got me thinking how many really successful players have gone onto become really successful managers? 

IMO just because they were a great player doesn't necessary mean they will be a successful manager, (or head coach.)

I know Pep has done a great job wherever he has gone, and Arteta at Arsenal. But a lot of really great players who have won multiple titles as a player struggled when making the transition to a manager. 

Looking at Rooney at Birmingham, obviously not doing so great at the moment, looking how Gary and Phil Neville got on when they went to  Valencia, to coach and failed. Didn't Paolo Di Canio go to Swindon a few years back now? 

When you look at people like Eddie Howe, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, who didn't have the most ground breaking playing career went onto become very good football managers. 

What's peoples thoughts?

 

I think the best coaches are ex players who were not naturally gifted like Gaza or Cantona but players who really had to work hard on their skills and win using the experience.

28 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Well I did say we should be optimistic… but really shouldn’t we be competitive against these 5 teams? Which 2 games do you see us losing?

Problem is, if we cannot take the chances when they come, our defence needs to be prefect.

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But you can be competitive and still lose.

I think the way that LM wants to play is really physically demanding and I think we don't at this point have the squad size and depth to support it. Players run more miles per game than ever and the pace is higher. This does not go well with running a thin squad backed up by kids.

On 28/11/2023 at 10:34, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I think they've ****** up the rules of the game in a quest for perfection.

• The flow is gone.
• The decisions are still questionable.
• The offside lines are mathematically questionable.

It needs fixing as it's a joke, as it is.  Slow disjointed and often wrong, at least the injustice at this level is because the ref is just shit.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/motion-capture-reveals-why-var-in-football-struggles-with-offside-decisions/

It's an interesting read 

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

On 25/11/2023 at 18:13, Big C said:

Yes. Well, it started badly, it tailed off a little in the middle and the less said about the end, the better. But, apart than that, it was excellent

Not exactly the tune to get the blood pumping. I thought the really loud "come on Boro" after their second goal was excellent. Simple old fashioned and loud is my preference.

On 26/11/2023 at 12:10, Alessandro said:

Said it at half time and I’ll say it again - seemed noticeable how much braver the CB’s were on the ball, lovely to see and both Vyner and Dickie very capable of stepping out and it helps so much with keeping the opposition press guessing - good improvement.

Also seen a bit of stick for Tanner…think he did seemed to often be more one of three CB’s as we moved the ball across the pitch looking for space and his instructions were to be less expansive than Pring going forward. Also felt he/his area of the pitch was targeted for the overlap/overloads as Sykes got caught upfield - so was perhaps made to look to struggle more than he actually did, defensively. 
 

I enjoyed the game - felt like had we not made those couple of mistakes beginning of the second overloads, we were generally in control for large parts of the game. Obviously the second half got a bit hectic and open, from both teams.

Manning’s comments make sense - it’s not going to be high press/front foot/exciting football all the time - as JL and Tinnion banged on about before he was appointment - but knowing when to attack. Feel like we’re beginning to see that in that game there.

Dickie brilliant - TGH in his rightful spot at CM and looks undroppable now. 
 

Still want much more end product from Bell and Mehmeti - interesting to see Bell having to drop off a lot more.
 

I agree regarding Dickie, he is a great buy, I think that Tanner had very few options when he had the ball in the first half. Sykes was well marked and there was often no ball into midfield. I thought Mehmeti looked a lot better than recent times when he came on actually taking people on which is what he was bought for. Not too much end product yet but I am encouraged. Bell looks like he needs a few games back in the reserves and I think we look better with Cornick leading the line rather than Conway. At least we had a decent bench this week. What Nige would have given for that!

I think the first home game with an international break to get organised should mean that we see the first impact of a new coaching team. It must be hard for Boro to prepare as they probably have no better idea than we have about our style of play.

I would hope that we stop playing Conway up front on his own. If we have 1 up top it has to be Cornick. I hope Wiemann does not start and that we play with a far higher tempo.

For me, a draw with an entertaining full on playing style will be enough. Fingers crossed, COYR

16 hours ago, Redtrojan said:

Nothing beats the old mem derby days.

Eastville Stadium was great because the away end had a decent capacity and we always filled it. The smell was pretty bad though.

On 27/09/2023 at 21:47, BS3City said:

Wasn't there a time when he was rated on a par with Alex Scott?

What a bonus a fully fit Ayman would be to the squad! In his own time of course.

Best wishes Ayman...

I think this might be a case of absence makes the heart fonder. From my memory Ayman showed flashes of real talent but never did he impact a game like Scott did. 

23 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

The women's game is in danger of losing fans, there have been some utterly shocking decisions the Chelsea result last night  is just one of a long line of nonsense.  Earlier in the season Man City were the recipients of a stupid second yellow and red.  Something needs to be done across both games tbh to raise the quality and consistency of refs.

A good start would be stopping abuse by players and spectators when young refs are coming thru. If we have a bigger talent pool the quality and competition improves.

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is where a football club will not be transparent, nor will they likely have true objectives and measures for those objectives.

It frustrates me.

The aim is promotion…yep, nice.  But what are the measures of success against that?  What constitutes Manning doing “okay” and retaining his job?  It sure ain’t “promotion”.  JL has already said something to that affect.

But of course if he comes out and says we want Liam to push us into the top-half and impose our style…then the first bit contradicts why they got rid of Pearson.  The style bit is subjective of course.

I think the Bournemouth owners wanted to change their style. Bet they wish they hadn't sacked the manager now.

5 hours ago, 2015 said:

This team needs Naismith in the side one way or the other. He's one of the only players capable of passing the ball between the lines and potentially opening up a defence. 

I think Dickie has the ability to step out of defence. Vyner is the perfect foil for Dickie and Atkinson when he's back fit. 

Naismith good cover CB when needed, but ideally i'd have him in Midfield right now.

If we put him and Williams in the same slot based on their injury record, hopefully one would always be available. Drop Wiemann, play Knight further forward and have James and one of these two with him.

On 13/11/2023 at 13:54, Mr Popodopolous said:

If our strikers are all fit and competing, I'm not so sure. That is a big if though.

We certainly need more goals from other areas of the pitch- Bell has 3 is it and Sykes I was hopeful may get 5-10.

Atkinson got a few last year, Dickie has 2 goals in the last few, hope he can add some more.

Knight in his first year or 2 coming through at Derby scored some goals.

Its not just the scoring of goals but also keeping the ball in the final third of the pitch. At the moment we have nobody who can receive the ball, hold it up and bring others into the game. As such we hit a lot of long ball with most resulting in lost possession. Since Scott left we also have nobody who can take the ball on the half turn and run at the defence. This makes us very easy to set up against. If you don't leave space in behind or over commit in attack we cause very few problems. Our wide players when finding themselves one on one rarely take their man on and instead pass inside or backwards. When we get in the final third it all looks a bit ad-hoc and our crosses rarely find our player. One last thing is attacking free kicks. It seems that we don't have anybody who can offer direct threat with free kicks around the box or even any clever routines from the training ground. Manning promises attacking exciting football. I hope to to see big improvements in the areas above.