italian dave

37 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We only had JKL who we'd not consider to be 1st team on the bench at Boro. 

The difference between availability for that Coventry game and the Boro game is night and day. 

Every team has a gruelling schedule, no point moaning about it. Ours maybe a little bit more due to the cup replays but then we're not the only team to play replays. 

Man City always have a gruelling schedule due to their success, Pep doesn't moan about it. 

You've proven my point exactly. Even months later you're highly critical of the Coventry performance, even tho they only had the one shot on target. 

After that game and in your case even months later people said Coventry battered us and dominated us. They didn't. They had a few pot shots but nothing that really troubled Max. But it's fair enough that you thought different and it's also fair enough that I think different about our second half performance v Boro. 

It's intriguing that those that say Coventry were dead unlucky also don't hold that view about Boros second half performance and infact spin it as tho we defended robustly etc. 

It's also interesting that those that castrated Nige for the formation we played against Coventry to begin with have also defended Manning changing formation at half time v Boro. 

Very interesting. 

It seems that performances under Manning and his decisions are not allowed to be critiqued however Nigels was. 

Man City’s schedule is of little relevance to us. It’s Southampton’s and QPR’s that’s significant to us.

And who’s “moaning”?

I didn’t feel Boro were unlucky, no. The fact that you use words like “spin” suggests you’re putting your own particular take on it. And I’ve certainly never criticised - never mind “castrated - another emotive term that doesn’t make for reasoned argument - anyone for our formation against Coventry.

But don’t keep playing the martyr?! No-one is suggesting that critiquing any manager isn’t allowed. In my mind all that’s being suggested the past 48 hours is that we show a little joy and spend a little time celebrating three points from a tricky away game! As @Davefevs said (eventually!!), just chill  

2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

That Leeds game where we came back from 2 down to draw in the last couple of minutes with a Flint goal. The one where Pontus Jansen lost it completely and had to be subbed in the first half.

Yes, remember that, it was so funny. If I remember right he got booked for kicking the ball away. But it wasn’t just a tap into the advertising boards - he actually got it out of the ground

1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

 

Correct it wasn't a ticket game, the capacity (37,000) was exceeded and just under 39,000 announced as the gate. A good couple of thousand were also locked outside. 

I don't know if the exceeding of the capacity by nearly 2,000 had an effect upon the capacity the next season onwards which was reduced to 32,000. 

I remember being in the Open End on that Monday night, where Garland headed the winner against Clemence. I think the first was a diving header near halftime in the East End goal to equalise Johnson's opener for Liverpool. 

And most of those locked out climbed in through the back of the East End. I’ve never known it so packed in there.

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@Port Said Red has already critiqued my headline skills.

(they were in reference to second half too and stated as such)

We’re a touchy lot in Portishead……take our headlines very seriously

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The thing was, it wasn’t anything of the sort.

It was a question, first and foremost.

Followed by a summary of what I saw happening.

Followed by a recognition (by myself) that there was a bigger picture, the win.

Ended with relax, and to go and start some threads reflecting the positive things.

+++++

I tried to point a number of posters back to what I’d actually posted, to no avail.

If that’s a strongly worded criticism of Manning, I’m stunned!

You’ll know that I was critical of the post on Saturday, Dave.

I’ve not joined in much since: I’ve said my piece, I take the points you’ve made since, and I’m not going to get into a debate with you on tactics and data!

But I do think @mozo has a point.

Whether you’re writing a novel, a political manifesto or a corporate press release, the one thing you’ll get told is to never underestimate the importance of the headline/title and of the opening lines.

When we’d just come away from Middlesbrough with a win, your headline had a very big “but” (and no question mark), and your opening line talked about disappointment, frustration and anger.

And, quite honestly, if you’d asked me to come up with three words after the game on Saturday then disappointment, frustration and anger would have been pretty much the last ones I’d have thought of!

So, whatever else you went on to say, you’d lost me by then! 

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I wouldn’t say we were comfortable!!!  Emotion of watching real time is one thing, but it’s also much easier to not fret about situations watching it back when you know the striker isn’t gonna place a shot into the corner, and hit a good shot straight at O’Leary…or Dickie is gonna somehow get a toe to a cross!

Williams got amongst them.  Shame the other 3 subs didn’t make any impact (Conway excluded as he worked hard without service).  Having said that, Roberts did his job, more McCrorie and Mehmeti who didn’t get anywhere near the levels of Bell and Cornick.

+++++

It was good to hear Manning’s interview today and him talk specifically about his systems, and in particular it’s more what each system does without the ball, which is what I was alluding to with the two man press (with Knight) and the one man press (without).

I don't know about "comfortable", but I honestly didn't have that 'it's only a matter of time' feeling.

And I'm someone who hates going into an early 3 goal lead on the basis that it looks embarrassing when we give it away!

I do agree about Williams though. And we did largely revert to a back 5 - as opposed to wing backs pressing forward. Which with one fewer in the middle, may have played its part in the limited effectiveness of Mehmeti and McCrorie, and the complete lack of service to TC.

And although I'm talking about watching it real time, and not in the knowledge of what's going to happen, I will acknowledge that it probably helped that it was all happening down the other end from us!!

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Not sure of the point you're trying to make here? I think you're excluding the context. 

We played King and Pring at centre back. We only had 14 fit players. 

I'm not sure of the relevance of my comment about the Coventry game in a conversation about the Boro game where we played well first half and didn't have a depleted squad. 

There was a massive fallout on here about our performance against Coventry despite the circumstances. So to add balance I pointed out that the criticism isn't unique to Manning as was being framed. 

The Coventry game was more comfortable viewing than Saturdays game. 

If you check back my posts you'll see I was full of praise of our front foot football in the first half at Boro. 

 

OK: the context

- we hardly have a full or large squad at the moment either - and add to that the gruelling schedule we are facing which is placing us at a disadvantage against every team we face.

- the relevance of the Coventry game is that it's the one you mentioned as evidence your proposition that posters were equally critical after that game. I was simply responding to your having talked about that game.

- Subjective I know, but my view is that the game on Saturday was far more comfortable viewing than the Coventry one. I don't think we were unlucky Saturday: I think we played well going forward first half and defended resolutely second half. As I've said elsewhere, it never felt to me - until the very end - that it was just a matter of time til Boro scored. Coventry we were dead lucky: they did everything but score, hit the woodwork, more than once as I recall. Also, we actually played well for long spells on Saturday - we didn't v Coventry. But as I say, I accept that's just my view and yours is different, that's fair enough.

I didn't read all your posts in the first half, no. I never read the forum when I'm at a match and watching the game. So I tend to go by the - in theory more considered - comments people make afterwards.

And I have to say that yours weren't terribly positive! Mostly critical in fact.

The contrast I was making wasn't between a generic summary of 'the feeling' after both games. There were, and are, lots of different views. It was more between your own reaction to the Coventry game, which was to focus on the positives, the need to grind out results, the mentality of the squad, the quality of the opposition. And yet on Saturday your over-riding post match repose was one that was critical of Manning, of the changes to personnel and formation.

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Oh I'm so sorry. Firstly I didn't see that post and secondly I didn't realise that Bristol City had been given a tougher schedule than anyone else and that we're the only team to play replays. 

Please note the sarcasm. 

Well if you have a look at the post - which was a reply to you - you'll see that the fact is that we DO have a tougher schedule than everyone else we're playing at the moment. 

I'll give you an example. When we play QPR on Saturday that will be our 11th game (plus an extra time) since the Xmas/New Year games. It will be their 8th.

I'm not going to look out the post or get all the details up together again since you probably won't read this one either. 

No sarcasm intended!

On 10/02/2024 at 18:20, W-S-M Seagull said:

Hate this excuse. Its the same for everyone else. 

No, it's not.

I replied to your similar statement a couple of weeks ago, and I gave you the facts about how many games we are playing compared to our opponents. We are playing significantly more games - and that was before our replay went to extra time.

You didn't reply to that, which is your prerogative.

But I wish you'd stop repeating stuff that's demonstrably not true.

4 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Love Runs Out...Willie Hutch

Love Walks In……Van Halen. 

3 hours ago, Midred said:

And their "World Series" !

I remember when the Premier League started, and then we had the ‘Championship’, a third tier called “one” - and all that bollocks. Someone suggested that the Conference, as it then was, should trump them all and call themselves the World Series. Not a bad idea! 

1 hour ago, phantom said:

I would assume it's like how Leeds and Man Utd fans sing the songs that used to be sung to them, it kind of throws the insult back at them and shows we can laugh at ourselves

Sheepshaggers, 1-0 to the sheepshaggers, as @Steve Watts has said above, even the original "I can't read": I get all of those for the reasons you say. The original 'I can't read' would be quite funny as a throw back - I'm from Somerset and what matters to me is being able to drive a tractor!

But "I'm a f ***g w ***" isn't really throwing anything back. It's like singing Bristol's a shithole  or F off City at yourself. Just immeasurably stupid!

To be fair, I guess they’ve scheduled so much this week because it’s half term.

The works on the A369 are more tree works, ash dieback. So they’ve got to be done.

What’s a pain if you live in Portishead is that they’ve chosen the same week to close Naish Hill for two days. 

13 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Same under Pearson. 

I remember the fall out when we beat Coventry at Ashton Gate. 

Some people have VERY short memories it seems. 

And here’s your summary from that particular game. Which, to me, doesn’t seem to include too much by way of fallout, buts or indeed any sign of critique of our poor game management. Just the positives spin on a game we won. And in which, incidentally, we didn’t romp to a two goal lead, and didn’t play well at any stage. 

“Coventry got all the way to the play off final last season whilst putting in many performances which were similar to our performance yesterday. They just had the ability to grind out results whilst not playing particularly well. Something which up until now we've struggled with.

Yes we'd all love to watch free flowing attacking football every week. But sometimes you do just need to grind out results when you're not playing well etc or have a depleted team. 

In the early days of Nige being here, wed have took a hiding yesterday. The fact we won shows the mentality we now have in the squad.”

It’s only closed 9.30 to 3.30, isn’t it? Shouldn’t be a problem for anyone tomorrow night. 

What’s that coming over the hill? It’s a Showunmi……

1 hour ago, Cole Not Gas said:

You may not like the song or mantra, and nor do i, but at least it isn't totally embarrassing like most current attempts at describing other cities as toilets, comparing their ground with sheds and other such nonsense.

As Mozo said many on OTIB don't think very positively anyway so "Always Believe" hardly gets used.

COYRS!

And as for the ‘I can’t read….’ one…..….calling ourselves bankers.

Beyond embarrassing.

Im with @Barrs Court Red in thinking always believe has been one of our better songs. 

23 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I think it's also partially needs must with managing game time. With different personnel you can't always keep the same shape i.e McCrorie coming on for Bell. Who else was the option.. Mebude? That would of been more risky.

I wouldn't say their goal was lucky as the pressure they applied beforehand was sustained and a goal felt like it was coming.

First point, agree with, and I think that was an important part of it. 

It felt like we switched in the knowledge that it was more about having 5 at the back than it was about wing backs pressing forward. And for the most part that worked. The point at which it started to look a little more risky was the Roberts for Pring switch - but I'm not sure that was a deliberate plan, more a knock for Pring?

And, picking up the point both you and @And Its Smith make...it worked! We won! Baffling or not, understandable or not...it did the job.

I know what you mean about their goal, but I honestly didn't feel like that until, say, the five minutes before it came. Yes, I was worried about the first 15 of the second half, but that was just about precedent! But until quite late on I really didn't feel that we were hanging or, or that it was just a matter of time. And when you get to 90 minutes and are still two goals ahead then the worry tends to diminish a little!! 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Morning my Italian Namesake!

A funny forum last night, and appreciate I may have contributed to it, but it was how I felt at the end of the game.  Nor was it criticism only.  I think most stuff stayed on the MDT.  In a perverse way Max didn’t seem to get much credit, because it kinda accepts we were under the cosh..

I mentioned Manning’s team selection, and playing Cornick on the left and Bell right was spot on.  I keep mentioning LM’s efficient press.  For me it is the most tangible change since he came in.  And we scored from it too (James).

I can’t praise Dickie enough, all season.  He’s my POTY.

Him and Vyner made some great last-ditch interventions.  My only criticism is they shouldn’t have to.  That’s not all they’re doing too. We ran out of steam in front of them too.

I think part of the issue (generalisation) is the posters who only post one way or the other, only come out when the result suits their purpose.  Then the discussion goes out the window.

Thats an interesting point about the MDT Dave. I always find it hard getting into that from a standing start! But 30 pages would maybe suggest what you say.

With no scientific evidence at all, I’ve always thought that they tend to be longer after a poor result than a good one. So 30 pages yesterday would be unusual! 

22 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

In that circumstances meant he got away with it but had Boro scored, the majority of the fault would have been on him 

 

First instance was at 0-0 where under almost no pressure at all he passed the ball to a Boro player with no City player near him (the Boro player) and only about 25 yards from goal.

 

The other was also the first half where he had a rush of blood to the head and came bolting out of the area, almost causing a mix up, but we managed to retain possession (just about).

I believe that was also at 0-0, a minute or 2 before we scored.

 

However, I also know you're so one eyed with Max that he could have the ball in his hands under no pressure, turn around and drop kick the ball into the goal in the most obvious example of a deliberate own goal you'd ever see and you would be finding a way to suggest he wasn't to blame whatsoever.

Why do you say that you know I'm "one eyed" with Max?

My comment above wasn't about Max at all; it was about the English language!

And, aside from the very rare comment about his performance in a particular game, I don't have a very strong view on him either way and I'm not aware that I've said very much about him at all.

47 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

Despite being at Twerton for "that game", the Brighton final remains my most depressing experience as a City fan (& to be fair, its had a lot or challengers over the years!).

41 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely.

Saw a couple of terrible hammerings at Twerton but much as I hate to admit it, Rovers under Francis were very effective in both of those games.

Brighton were just as bad as us but we were absolute litter, totally gutless & wouldn’t have scored if they had packed up & gone home.

Anyone who ever wonders why Wilson was rightly sacked afterwards should be made to watch this game every week until they get it.

Didn’t we also put up a woeful “play it safe” 0-0 performance against them at Ashton Gate a couple of games before the end of that season?

If we’d won that we’d have gone up without needing a play off.

1 hour ago, transfer reader said:

Rating for Max is high, 7 about right 

Very nearly 2 howlers from him first half, but other than that did the stuff he should.

How can you get “very nearly” a howler? Surely it’s either a howler or it isn’t? 

20 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

It was as if no-one told the players it was a big match. Before the game I was chatting to some BHA fans, they just assumed we'd win easily but they thought it would give their campaign for a new stadium a bit of publicity!

Sat for hours in traffic on the M4 afterwards didn't help the mood.

You were lucky.

We were sat for hours in a car park next to the ground.

Thought we’d done well getting there early to get one so close.

What we didn’t realise is that the road it exited onto was closed after the game.

And that most of the other cars in it seemed to belong to Brighton fans.

It was like the awful experience of those 90 minutes being extended for another 90! 

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I created 3 threads alone.

One was the “but” thread, which was my initial reaction to the second half after the final whistle.

The other two, one extolling the performances on Tanner, the other way Wells and Knight led an excellent front line press / block and his the others backed it up.

Morning Dave!

You did! To be honest, I had a quick look when we stopped for a break on the way home and just seemed like there was none of the elation I was feeling. I did see the Tanner one when I got home, missed the Wells/Knight one: I put it down to fatigue - Middlesbrough and back in a day is a long drive!

And, although your ‘but’ did play its part, it wasn’t just that!

I just couldn’t help thinking of all those defeats and the threads that usually follow. A thread on almost every individual player and their faults. At least two on Manning and his deficiencies. And probably a poll on whether the Lansdowns should be publicly humiliated or merely exiled. (I’m exaggerating, but you get my drift!)

But yesterday, nothing on how sound Max was, nothing on the amazing Dickie and Vyner - ever present but still timing tackles and throwing bodies in when necessary. Nothing on how Pring and Cornick dominated that left side. And so on. 

And, nothing on Manning. You can critique individual decisions to rest, start, sub individual players, you can critique how we set up and manage games, but overall I think he and his back room team deserve huge credit for the way they’ve managed what’s been an incredibly taxing period with a small squad. We’ve had a far more difficult schedule to manage than either of our last two opponents and yet we finished much the stronger side on Wednesday and yesterday we stormed into a two goal lead which, until the 92nd minute, we never looked like losing.

So, not aimed at you (I acknowledge you did start the only two threads about individuals) and I know others have made comments on some of the other performances I’ve mentioned above.

It was just that a quick look at the forum at 7 yesterday seemed so quiet compared to when we lose, and didn’t seem to reflect what was a great performance as well as result. 

8 hours ago, TDarwall said:

Vaseline  - Elastica

 

Grease…….Frankie Valli