italian dave

I'm not going to get into the mud slinging, name calling, cock measuring or any other of the more competitive elements of this thread - but this one puzzles me - serious question. I'm assuming you're right Nick - I haven't got the time to check in detail! But if that's the case, and if we're that much better now (I think you said 55% on another thread) then how come the other much quoted fact recently, namely that at the end of SOD's reign we were two points from safety, -3 GD and on the same number of games as all our rivals, and now we are two points from safety, -8 GD, and all our rivals have games in hand on us. We are evidently in a worse position, table wise. I can't believe that the one game where we dint have either as a manager can make that much difference! So, how come we are doing 55% better on results, but in a worse position in the table??

Spot on, great post, well said.

Arsene Wenger?! Robbo, I think you and I disagree fundamentally about SOD, and probably always will, but you're dead right about the constant SC v SOD thing. It's divisive, and it's completely pointless because at the end if the day no-one will ever know what would have happened if Sean had stayed, and we'll never know what would have happened if Steve had been able to start this season with the sort of clear out that Sean had. There's still room for comment and for views on SOD (and that's where you and I will differ), for comments on SC (which tend to differ depending if we've won!) and on the board (where I think you and I have more in common, at least as far as the constant churn of managers and lack of a coherent plan is concerned). But what's really pointless is playing one against the other. "....well at least he's not as bad as the other...", " I like a therefore b must be bad." stuff. They're different people, and they have different strengths, and neither is all good or all bad. Clearly Sean was uncomfortable facing the media in a way Steve isn't. Sean got the best out if JET in a way Steve hasn't. And so on.

Nick, I get where you're coming from on this, and I agree that constant sniping isn't helpful. But what very often starts it off is the constant sniping at another bloke who was also on our side. It works both ways.

I was at both Sheff U games. I'll say no more, except don't judge anyone on one game.

Been looking at another SU forum - s24su.com - another interesting perspective on yesterday, especially this. Depressing reading I'm afraid - but worth a look - and yes they do ask themselves why they hate being called "Sheffield" but keep calling us "Bristol"!: "I also had a look at their main forum, and the atmosphere felt much like this forum did after the Crewe game. I therefore decided to have a look back and see what people were saying after they won away at Leyton Orient a couple of weeks ago. There the similarity ended. They are, at least, consistent in their depression. Even having just won away against a team near the top of the league, they were very down. There was the odd "credit where it's due" but generally the view was still that the team was disinterested, that they'd been lucky to win and - where most of the focus lay - that Cotterill was the main problem. Their view of Cotterill couldn't be more different to our view of Clough. We tend to see Clough as the bright spot when things go badly, and the hero when things go well. They see Cotterill as the cause of most of their woes. The general atmosphere is much worse than here. They sound as if they think they're down".

I think you're confusing a lack of comfort in front of the press with forming a rapport with fans. Sean made it clear that he believed fervently that the club had to engage with the community and with its fans. And he tried to live that too: he was much more engaging when he was at a fans event, or a community event. Even his programme notes were an attempt to do that, and to spend some time trying to explain what he and (he thought) the club were doing to move forward. Personally I found that far more engaging than a few lines of 'we were unlucky last week' and 'get behind us , your support is vital'. He may not have gone about it the way you'd have liked, you may not have felt he'd been successful, but please don't say that he had no interest in it.

Just back from Sheffield and re-living the game via OTIB - how sad is that!Got to respond to this tho'. You have raised the matter of our former manager, so I'll bite. I couldn't disagree with you more if you'd said we should play in blue next season! I've been to most away games this season and I've got to say that under SOD we were anything but a shambles. We generally looked organised, we were hard to beat (never lost by more than the odd goal, we had players who had been brought in to do a job that they were suited for, they looked like they knew what to do, and what the plan was. I'm looking back at some of those games: Coventry - early on some shocking defending, but we fought back and it was a great game to watch. MK Dons - some great football from City, and enough chances to have won easily. Soton - great performance - matched a Prem outfit. P Vale - very disciplined, should have won. Crewe - not the best, but at a time when the priority was to stop conceding and to stop making silly mistakes we came within a whisper of a 0-0. Carlise - lost the plot first half, but completely back on track second and the players knew what to do. Tranmere - again, organised, good shape, good point. And at all these games I felt that the team selections made sense, the substitutions made sense, what we were trying to do made sense, and the players understood that. And, for the first time in ages, I was really enjoying away trips again. Contrast that with Wolves, Brentford, Oldham, and now today. Today was a shambles. We had no shape. We played our two best centre backs as full backs. Our in form striker out in the wing. Baffling substitutions, players who looked like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing - and certainly had no idea what the plan was. However, you cant entirely blame either manager for today - either Sean's legacy or Steve's line up today. The fact is that the bulk of our side was recruited by a manager who had a certain style of play: possession, passing, technical. Now that squad's been inherited by a manager with a totally different style - speed, quickness, running, challenging for everything - but the players don't necessarily have those strengths and they've been coached something different for most of the season. Not surprisingly they look lost. We've got players who can play the Arsenal way being asked to play the Wimbledon way. It's a bit like I start up a building form and recruit a head plumber and a load of apprentices, train them up as plumbers, coach them as plumbers, then sack the manager, appoint a carpenter in his place and tell him to run it as a carpentry business - then wonder why they struggle! Today was pathetic: others have said enough about it. It was also a sharp contrast to how enjoyable those games above were. My emotions today were a mixture of boredom, anger and embarrassment. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the boards decision in November to abandon their strategy for taking the club forward in the longer term was the worst decision in the 50 years I have been following City.

We had Paul Cheesley. They had Malcolm McDonald. Nowadays......no, not going to depress myself going there!

You wouldn't be confident going to The Emirates then?

And they're not all bogey grounds. We've never lost at the Emirates, never lost at the Etihad - and unlike some, never lost at Accrington!

Problem is, if we're relying on away from we're even more screwed.

Don't post stuff like that! Long words of identical letters usually means we've scored!!

I agree, great delivery on Sat. Let's hope that Coventry have someone as diligent and alert as the Carlisle player who tracked Waggy to stop us playing a short corner both times!!

.....if we're lucky.

Long term? Short term? I think it's the whole concept of 'plan' that our board struggles with.

Question. Is part of the problem playing JET as a Baldock's strike partner? Most of the through balls that put Baldock one on one come from JET. What that means is that there's no other striker running in alongside, or slightly behind, Baldock. That means he's got no options, and that makes it easier for the opposing keeper. I'm thinking play JET behind the front two: he'll still get goals from there, will still be able to spot Baldock's runs and play to his strengths, but not mean that every time that happens it's a straightforward one on one. Thoughts?

....consistently. Finish for his first was great.

Yeah, bit like the guy who said we wouldn't throw away a lead at Notts Co....

Would you like to rephrase that?

Louis to start, and equal appearance record!

100% agree. Only thing is, would he be given the time now? Eight months into his reign we were bottom of the whole football league!!

This is it, in a sentence. SL can chuck his own money at us buying crap players and paying off managers if he wants. But long term the ground is a huge worry. There's another thread running about 1982: one thing I remember clearly about 82 was the board that rescued us being absolutely adamant that they could and would only do this if ownership of the ground was part of the deal and part of the plan. They were clear that the football club could only be rescued and have along term future if it owned its own ground. And I have to say that! for all lansdown's success in the financial world, Des Williams had a far better understanding of how to run a football club. The other thing that keeps coming back to me is what happened to the Gas and Eastville. Ground owned by a separate entity, albeit with a common owner. Two sports. Owner gets fed up with the stick he gets because the football club is going nowhere. Falls out of love with the football club. Sells ground. And the Gas are still paying the price for that.

Agree with most of this, but I thought the ref was OK today. Couple of early bookings put a stop to the really naughty stuff. After that it was a lot of pushing and shirt pulling, and he picked up most of that. Not his fault that he had an incompetent linesman who gave the goal and missed a blatant offsie.

Just a shame SOD couldn't rely on the same support