Spike

7 hours ago, Mendip City said:

We’ve got enough time to get a new manager in before Leicester. 
But won’t. 
And I meant manager not another bloody trainee head coach just out of head coach school. 

We'd be foolish to sack a manager and appoint a new one so quickly. Next appointment needs to be handled well and definitely not be the "up and coming" option. We need someome with experience at this level, someone who has good contacts so they can draw in better quality players and mostly, someone who can adapt to  changing situations and isn't steadfast in sticking to one plan. 

6 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Or scouting, or pr, or in fact anything frankly.

He has had his day and has failed to move with the times.  He seems like a throwback to ann older era.

As much as I don't like Tinnion these days, he was good with the young players. I'd be fine with him going back to that role but he'll never accept a demotion so I'd have him straight out of the door. 

We'll still have people who will say "he needs to bring his players in" or "He's shown we can play great football under him in some games", personally, I think those people don't understand football tactics and why we're getting results against some teams and struggling against others.

What's frustrating me is a few things:

1) "He needs his own players" - Manning was not brought in with a rebuild in mind, the very declaration from the board who brought him in was that he was brought in to get results from a squad that they deemed to be "top 6". Now I understand that any level-headed fan understands that this was a stupid statement as this squad is simply not one of the top 6 squads in the Championship, however, that is what Manning was brought in for, to get the results to get us in the top 6 positions and the board said the squad were capable of that.
With that in mind, Manning is failing at the very job he was brought in to do. Our fans can say "he needs a summer and to bring in some of his players" but that's not what he was hired to do, he was hired to take an already existing squad and make them get into the top 6 and had we had a decent run of results and been even remotely close to that then I could cut him some slack, but that's not the case.
Manning can have a summer, he can change the squad, the issue then will be that we've rebuilt around a man who is tactically out of his depth. This leads me to:

2) "How do we beat Southampton and lose to QPR and Sheffield Wednesday?!" - Tactics and gameplan, Manning is as generic a manager as they come. Even under Pearson we struggled to break teams down who sat back and counter-attacked us, the reason being is that we played that very football under Pearson, so when that situation arose we almost cancelled each other out. The difference between under Pearson and manning is that under Pearson we played a very direct attacking pattern with the intention to either create a chance or to lose the ball, keep behind the ball and win it back and hit on the counter instantly. Manning has come in and when we come up against a team who play that same style he's decided to play the possession and work the opportunity game, the issue with that is we do not have the players for that football, that requires players like we saw today in Johnston, creative players who can run at players and cause panic. Our players are far more suited to using pace and space to create opportunities so when this situation arises under Manning we're simply toothless in creating opportunities unless the opposition play to our advantage.
Southampton opened up and tried to outplay us and we countered them effectively, not using Mannings style, but instead using the things Pearson taught the players. Our very best results have come from playing the way we played under Pearson and the opposition playing into that, hence we competed with Premier league teams, they are the types of teams who come at us allowing that quick, counter opportunity creations.

3) "Manning is here to stay, we should get behind him!" - This boggles my mind, why should we support a man who has been so quick to blame players but when his tactics let us down he doesn't see that it's his own doing? He's either passing the blame onto the players or he simply doesn't realise that he's the problem, not the players. You only need to look at our players best periods of performance at the club and then look at the style of football we were playing at the time to pick out things such as Bell is a pacey player who likes to get in behind and either bring the ball across the area with a low driven cross or likes to get on an angle to shoot. When Manning came in he was using him like he was a deep winger who cuts inside which is not where Bell was at his best. Conway is another example, he's a menace when you give him a ball to run onto alongside a defender and instead we keep going wide looking for crosses, he's just not that fox in the box style player so again, not playing to his strengths at all. 
Manning has already shown that his clear intention is to play the one style he likes to play and rather than take the assets he has in players and create a system that gets the best from them he's trying to mould them into the type of player he needs to suit his system and that clearly isn't working.
What further frustrates is when he was asked if he'd change his set up/coaching ideals he flat out said no, so essentially he's not capable of adapting as someone like Pearson is. When Pearson was struggling with us he looked at what he had, he looked at where we were weak and where he could get more from our players and built his gameplan and style around that, he found round holes and used his round pegs, Manning has round pegs and he's trying to hit them with a hammer through triangular shaped holes and seems confused as to why he's getting no where and still won't look to try a different peg or hole.

I'm convinced that Summer, new players, a pre-season... none of it will help unless we somehow have the transfer window of a lifetime and bring in insanely quality players that are able to play to Mannings style of football but even then it would require not mid-level championship players to pull it off but top end level Championship players and simply put we don't have the finances to make those kinds of luxury transfers. Instead, we'll shop where Manning has managed, in League One and then we'll wonder why the system he employs just doesn't work. 

I've always been in the mindset of a manager will always need time at a club, but in all my time of supporting Bristol City I've never seen such a gulf in managerial ability as I've seen with replacing Pearson with Manning. Pearson may not have taken us up, but he did improve our league position whilst selling some of the best talent we've had in my lifetime, he also had the fans for the most part on the same page which is the biggest achievement in my personal opinion. I've been supporting City all my life and I think I've only seen our fans all in agreement for the most part on 3 occasions and Pearson was one.
Manning has been here for 23 games and has completely polarized the fans, the home games are barely on par with a library at times, the players look frustrated and restricted and the board are not going to sack him because then they'll have to admit their mistake. 
Next season we're going to go into the season having had a pre-season with new players learning Manning-ball which will more than likely fail as he's so one-dimensional and we'll end up struggling until all of the fans finally turn on him and the board are forced to let him go, at which point we'll probably have lost good talent in Conway, Pring etc and will have a squad who have been trained to play a type of football that we can't live up to in this division and a new manager needed to do a proper rebuild job over multiple years.

All I've heard this week from some of our fans is how Manning just needs backing and how we're playing better football, I honestly wish I could see what they're seeing. All I see is poor tactics, bad game planning and players who just don't look like they want to play this way at all.

Just conceded a goal where they practically walked it in, ripped apart again. 
Two unmarked players too, trash defending.

All over the place defending that, like panicked rats scurrying around.

That Johnston looks a right handful, they're getting a fair few situations of 3 on 2 in the wide areas too which is giving him good positions to run into.

This stream I'm watching he keeps calling Mehmeti "met-metti"... really irritating :laugh:

Conway at his best there, running alongside a defender, beats him to it, causes a problem with a good ball into a dangerous area. I wish we saw more of those situations, it's where Conway really causes the opposition problems and exactly what we've not been seeing of him under Manning, hopefully the odd glimpse will make Manning realise that's where Conway is best.

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why are we in the yellow?

Because it seems to be the thing now that clubs try to make sure they use away kits when they are away and it doesn't clash, I can't stand it, should be in the red today, also the yellow is bloody horrible.

4 minutes ago, mozo said:

I genuinely don't know who the first choice right back should be

I think it's tough but I'd go with McCrorie personally, he seems a lot more rounded but no doubt Tanner has games where he's fantastic.

23 hours ago, Ciderhead433 said:

We used to run on after every match in the '60s, get a grip,

 

You could walk onto a plane without any security checks in the 60s

There were milkmen in the 60s

Smoking was encouraged in the 60s

Some children's toys were made from lead in the 60s

Asbestos was used as a Christmas decoration as it looked like snow in the 60s

We should go back to that... 

Tinnion is a core problem in this club, as he said, he's been here 30 years and the only positive input he's had was either playing football or coaching the youth, everything else he's been mediocre or absolute shit. 

No wonder he's happy right now, we beat Swansea at home, the bloke probably still has nightmares about Swansea at home after they smashed us 7-1 under his last game in charge of us as a manager. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons we got rid of Pearson was because he's everything Tinnion wishes he was. 

As a young man I used to think Tinnion was a proper Bristol City player, now I think he's just a corporate stooge who has kissed asses all way to the top and his flip flopping answers don't help reassure anyone. 

Fantastic player, only fault I can find in him is that occasionally he'll carry the ball a little too long and get himself in a bad position but even then, it's his carrying the ball that often gets our midfield moving and allows him to start attacking plays that aren't always down the wings. 

We really do need that engine midfielder who comes to collect and can turn on the ball to create movement forward though, that would really step up our options. 

1 hour ago, Tim Monaghan said:

And so he should be. Huge summer incoming. 

If you think we're going to be making any big signings or any signings that will suddenly make us competitive I would suggest becoming prepared for disappointment. 

We'll probably bring in a few players he wants but it won't change anything as this level is far too competitive and the level of player required for Mannings set up is too expensive for us so we'll get the watered down version of what he wants. We'll also more than likely lose Conway and Pring, King will be gone and then maybe another one or two and we'll have to start another rebuild which will fail under Manning, then he'll be sacked and the board will brush under the mat how he's their man and how they're to blame before appointing another "up and coming" manager who will probably sold down the river with promises too. 

Sack, usually I'd say it takes time but with what I've seen so far this is the first appointment that I see no benefits or improvements, if anything we've got worse and we're not even using our players to their strengths. 

Manning is not adaptive enough for this club, this club will have limits, restrictions etc and he cannot adapt his tactics to suit players so he'll need to bring in players, but those players will be far too costly to make us competitive with a non adaptive playstyle. 

Manning won't be able to improve us unless he changes his approach which he's already confirmed he has no intention to do. 

2 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Why concentrate on the negative, we were tight and how many shots did they have ?

Exactly....

If you crave entertainment go to the cinema...football is not a guaranteed outcome.

The performance was poor, in this game we got a chance and took it but we didn't perform any better and it's not the entertainment that we're concerned about, it's the ability to win games. We lost 4 consecutive games and then scraped a 1-0 win with a very poor performance, is that what you want from your football club? 

1 minute ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Half-time competition:

Who can come up with the most positive thing about the first half?

 

I'm at the mother in laws so my signal is gone so I haven't seen the last 20 minutes of the half, best part so far. 

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

“It’s all about how we adapt in game depending on what they change or throw at us”

Definitely reads the forum… 

 

I know this is a joke but it genuinely concerns me at the thought that they do, I mean any confident manager who knows what they are doing doesn't need the fans to know what to do or say.

I'm fine with them reading and maybe even saying "look I'm aware of what the fans are saying" but pandering to fans.... bad look that will only appear shallow and desperate IMO.

4-2-3-1 for Swansea, I can see them playing the way we struggle to break down, numbers behind the ball, use the "front 4" they have to counter. Hope I'm wrong.

I might start downloading these and playing them before bed, save me a fortune on Nytol. 

22 hours ago, Harry said:

I guess what I’d say (and this is no defence of Manning by the way), is that you haven’t really factored in the relativity. 
 

Relatively speaking, if we were 4 points off the playoffs after 15 games, then under the same trends we’d be 8 points off the playoffs after 30 games. 
Now on 36 games, under the same trends, we’d be roughly 9.5 to 10 points off the playoffs (well, 10 would be after 37.5 games in that 15 game model). 
 

So we are currently 13 points off the playoffs, so the relative regression is only 3 points. 

Fair play to be so positive, I'd see it more like if we're factoring in relativity then Pearson. Left us with half hours squad injured and still playing football that kept us in the top half.

Manning has joined as the players were all returning and has had a largely better selection choice and has managed to take us down the league and provide with 3 consecutive games where we not only lost but didn't even look capable of creating an attack. 

Manning could have a preseason but we'll not be any better off, the man needs players that suit his system in order for it to work but at this level we can't afford those types of players, they are luxury players that the teams with a lot more money to spend sign. We can't do a Cotterill again, this isn't League one and we can't afford the quality we could in that league to build the squad that suits his tactics. 

3 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Then people would complain we don't hear anything from the leadership of the club

I mean what's worse? Saying nothing and the fans get pissed off because they're not communicating or coming out and essentially telling the fans they don't think there is a problem and we've just been unlucky?

At this point I just see Tinnion as guy with a 3 inch paint brush trying to paint over the cracks only to realise the "cracks" are the grand canyon. The worst part is Tinnion will be here as long as the Lansdowns are meaning nothing will change. Too many high positions taken by guys with no clue how to run a club and egos too big to admit it and get the right men in.

16 hours ago, spudski said:

As the Ipswich manager pointed out, we now have structure in defence and block many channels. He said we were fit, and dangerous when we countered. 

No mention of possession football and an ability to break teams down, which is what Manning said he wants to do. 

Instead...when we do play with the ball, it's so incredibly easy to defend against. 

Opposition teams are structured and disciplined. They aren't going to be drawn into moves out of that structure. Tbh...when watching, our defenders and DMs are now going through the motions of moving the ball side to side, without even looking to see if they can draw players. 

Then it's the same old crap...knock it wide, and either attempt a cross, or cut inside. It's incredibly predictable, and the way Manning talks, makes it sound like Rocket science.

The only time we really trouble sides, is when we block and regain possession, and quickly attack on the counter...when the opposition aren't in defensive shape. 

Manning has also admitted in interviews that his way of playing is considered the hardest in football to do well, high risk for reward, is known that you have to have the right players to play that way to succeed and it's easy to play against if disciplined and structured. Also leaves gaps for the opponents to exploit wide in the channels. 

His philosophy is too ingrained and comes from his background. 

Exactly, I think everyone is seeing this except the board, or they are and now they know they've messed up and their perfect vision is not attainable.

Manning isn't improving us, in fact our best football is in the areas that Manning is trying to cut out from the previous Manager. 

The longer we have the more I think we'll see this and the more we'll only confine to pick up points when the opposition attack us and the player instincts over ride Mannings tactics. 

I don't see Manning going anywhere soon, the board would have to admit they ****** up and we have bought a few players to start next season which suggests Manning is in those plans. 

I'm not looking forward to the near future, we'll have some good games based on what the players were taught prior to Manning but the longer he coaches us the more we'll see our best games fizzle out. We can't keep relying on the opposition to play the way we want them to in order to be in with a chance.