Spike

Just now, The turtle said:

Robins tv is sooo negative they both might actually get fired. Like they've got more and more negative.

Unheard of....

And the most unlikely form of entertainment so far

 

"Should be 3 or 4 down"

Did i really hear that on robins tv????

I prefer it to "We're very unlucky" when we're really not. What are they supposed to say when we're being tactically outplayed by a team who are in the relegation zone? 
For the first time since he took over I'll say it confidently, Manning has been totally out of his depth in this match, he hasn't identified the problem, he's just tried to force the tactics he likes work against a team set up perfectly to nullify us.

We've spent the whole of the match since we switched to 3 at the back forcing it out wide, trying to play 1-2 passes to create a run down the wing only for QPR to put 3 men on us and pin us out wide with 4-5 players covering the middle of the pitch which in turn forces us to play the ball backwards and try to recycle across the pitch and do the same thing on the other side. If we try to come inside where QPR have 3 men before a single one of ours we lose possession and they counter.

Cifuentes must be laughing at Manning, he's made a team that beat Southampton comfortably look like a relegation-bound team despite his own team being in the bottom three. If Manning cannot find the solution to a team sitting deep on us then this won't be the last time we see a performance like this and what bothers me is how many of out fans can't see it and instead get frustrated and look for a player to blame... "Mebude is shit", "Cornick just runs and offers nothing", "Mehmeti is crap" etc. The reason these attacking players look so shit is that they have to do the stuff that the midfield should be doing, connecting the defence to the attack, only they ARE the attack so we bypass the midfield using the width because the midfielders are spread out so wide that we can't come inside. 
It was the same issues under Pearson, only the difference was he would identify the issue and try to change up the way we played to create chances, instead Manning just sticks to his plan even if it means driving head on towards a brick wall and wondering why we crashed. The issue is we're one dimensional, which is why we're mid-table, we rely on teams to play to our strengths and when they do we punish them, but when they set out to frustrate us and stop us playing to Mannings tactics he has no second plan, no way to adapt to what the opposition are doing and then our players become frustrated, the fans become frustrated and then the fans go quiet and turn on the players.

I think we have a squad capable of walking all over QPR, the issue is that we don't have a manager capable of creating a gameplan that can change and adapt on the fly and today highlighted that perfectly. We just went around in circles trying to do the same thing over and over and it never worked and therein is the issue, not we need a new striker, not we need a new goalkeeper, what we need is a manager who can read the game and coach us to adapt on the fly when plan A is failing. All we did today was change shape and keep playing to plan A, there was no plan B and QPR took 3 points because of that very problem.

Just now, TV Tom said:

This is nothing to do with tactics, it's about 16 players who have barely strung 3 passes together 

Really? The reason we can't string passes together is because QPR have 4-5 men in the middle of the pitch cutting off all our inside options, they then allow us to go wide where we then get the wing blocked off and have two options, come back or try to beat the man and cross the ball in where they have more players behind the ball who are better in the air than us.

It's all about the tactics, there is a reason a team who beat Southampton and looked full of confidence look lost today. We haven't changed anything about our tactics, but we've come up against a team who have nullified our style and we've not adapted to it at all. Everyone of our players starts by going wide and either coming back and across the pitch or down a dead end where we try to cross... we're literally trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results and QPR are loving it as they're set up perfectly to stop it.  When in possession QPR have 3 men in the middle before you see a single one of our players so how are we going to go through the middle to create anything when the wide men have no options going forward. Our attack is fully nullified.

Just side to side at the back, trying to force the wings, no movement in the middle to create options, all QPR need to do is sit back, mark up the wide men and they're golden. We're not going to cross the ball in the air as we have no threat, we're not passing through the middle because they're sitting back and covering up the options and so we're just going down the wing or going long. We're doing exactly what they want us to do.
LM should be making us play narrow when in possession and moving side to side so we still have options, instead we're spread across the pitch and they're covering the middle in numbers forcing us into dead end wing movements where we have no option but to go backwards or run into a position where we can't create anything.

commentators are pissing me off when they're saying "Where does a performance like this come from" when the answer is in front of their eyes, we're being tactically outplayed and not changing anything that'll impact the game. it comes from a lack of our ability to break down a team that doesn't need to attack the game.

Qpr are compact and giving each other options, we seem to be so far spread out that we're struggling to create movements. They're also happy to hold onto the ball and we're not pressuring hard enough to actually make them panic.

Players heads look like they're down to me, Also a back 3 is going to invite the counter so much more, one good long ball causes problems for us with 3 at the back. 

If we're going to attack we need some players to step up and beat a man, play a cutting pass, instead we're just playing this aimless possession and waiting for an opportunity to show itself. Simply put it's not going to come unless our players force it and we're not taking those risks.

4 minutes ago, petehinton said:

QPR have gone 4-6-0 already basically 

I don't blame them, they need the points and we can't break them down, they're playing to their strengths and our weaknesses, it's a smart thing to do.

10 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Same old problem.  No striker.

Why if fans can see it did we do nothing to change that in transfer window

I don't see the point in us discussing the striker being an issue when none of the strikers really get chances and when they do they convert at a decent rate, the issue is we don't create chances for them. We could have Haaland up front but if we can't supply him in a decent position even he's not going to score. We could spend a fortune on a striker and these kinds of games would continue because the issue is not finishing opportunities or even players making the space to get opportunities, it's that we can't supply them the ball in those situations because we can't break down a team who sit back in numbers.

7 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

We might have.. but sat on bench in Twine and ‘Dire’. As you say same old when team get behind the ball let us play in front off them. The Saints came here to win and allowed us to ‘play’

Agreed, we do have some creativity but we can't rely on a few players to create chances, the team as a whole need to be better in that department.

4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Teams will know that we struggle against teams that sit back, so do to us what we like to do 

Exactly and I'm yet to see a manager who seems to be able to solve that issue. Peason struggled with it too hence we were set up to counter attack and hope to pinch the goals. Manning seems to change what he wants from us week in week out, sometimes it's counter football, sometimes it's possession but the one thing we struggle with are teams who sit back, we still have no creativity when it comes to breaking down teams with numbers behind the ball.

Frustrating and really piss poor defending. 
Total different game to Southampton, QPR sitting back in numbers and countering, Southampton were far more open and ultimately we've struggled to break them down.

We don't deserve to be behind but that's what happens when you struggle to create against a team that will sit back and soak up the pressure well.

Williams just got crunched, that may fire him up haha

Oh shit, Bell just pulled after no contact at all

This kit looks amazing on the pitch, shame we have to go back

How bad is Atkinson injury from the under 21s? I'm starting to worry that lad is just riddled with injuries and may never fully recover at this rate. 

Well earned win today and nothing but credit to the team, tactics were right, the players performed, everything went as planned. 

Not very often I can enjoy a match as much as that. 

Credit to all of those involved

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I'm still not wholly convinced that this is the case but open minded.

I mean I see many, but like I said, I feel that he may be experimenting during some games to see what works and what doesn't that can't be replicated in training, time will tell.

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Draws against Watford and Coventry too, aren't bad results.

It was Birmingham and Millwall that frustrated me. Leeds I can forget.

I agree with this, the results have been frustrating but considering the level of opposition and how early it is into LM's management of the club it's hardly a surprise that we've struggled to get points but many displays have been good. Birmingham and Millwall are also the performances that bothered me most. One thing I think we're going to see under Manning is closer games, Manning clearly likes to try and outplay the opposition and in this league the levels are very close with only a few teams having a clearly stronger squad which means in order to get results we're going to have to outplay teams who are just as capable of playing good football. I think this is why we've had the bad run of results, because it's still new, the players are still learning the style and because the opposition have been very capable of beating teams who play this way, even when they've had more time implementing it. The positive to look at is that we've been in these games, despite it being so early into a full transition of playstyle meaning we're obviously capable of playing, the team just need experience that will come with time.

On 10/02/2024 at 20:23, BS3_RED said:

I've never seen so many people moan as I have since manning took charge.  Some of the flack he has took is a joke. New to this standard and club it would always take a bit of time.  We have put good performances in the cup and if we can replicate that in the league we will do well.  Watford away was outstanding and today was also pretty spot on from the small part i watched ( I was working today)

I really think that people are giving him the flack for decisions that are beyond his control (NP sacking).

We are safe this season, so just sit back, shut the fck up and lets see what happens in August.

 

I'm happy to give Manning time but to not critique him when he makes mistakes would be equally unfair the other way. 

My issue with him is missing some basics. He's failed to identify things that were identified by NP which in my opinion is something that someone at the club should be passing onto him, so whilst not his fault is causing him to make some mistakes that were already made in the past which creates frustration. 

Another thing that concerns me is how he reads the game sometimes, like in our last game how he changed the shape up at half time when we were looking so comfortable. After that change up we looked far less comfortable and had the linesman not saved us we would have been discussing dropping 2 points instead of taking 3.

I can see a lot of positives that Manning has brought and I'm glad the players still seem to have that hunger/bite at times but we're still guilty of being very one dimensional. We seem to really struggle when a team identifies our weaknesses and uses them against us, the team doesn't adapt and Making doesn't make that change. It's highly frustrating to see us change our shape when it's working for us but when we're struggling we seem to stick to our guns and hope it pans out. 

As I said, I do see positives, I'm seeing us playing the kinds of splitting passes that we didn't make under NP but we're also making many of the same mistakes that NP identified and adjusted to fix. I'm sure in time LM will see this too and adjust but we still lack the ability to do it quickly and effectively in games, an ability that all of the top teams do so well. 

I've not written LM off at all, I just hope he is experimenting this season, hence making these unnecessary changes when controlling a game. I hope it's a case of testing what works and what doesn't whilst we're midtable and not looking likely to end anywhere else with the goal to implement the changes for next season. 

Either way, next season we may look like a very different team what with the likelihood of losing several players and the already new signed players joining up with the squad. 

Ah well, just as well there is no streams 

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

You never know, we still might do!

I don't see it, the board have the man they want, so much so they were willing to sack Pearson during an injury crisis and bring in a man with a crippled squad and a whole new plan, it was a wild decision to make but I feel like they'd had enough of the fans all getting behind Pearson and wanted a man who does as he's told. Manning hits me as a very methodical man, he makes a plan and keeps working towards it, no deviation at all no matter what and that's why when it goes well it looks great but when he's struggling he's not willing to change things to patch the leaks, instead he sticks firm until things fall in place. 
I think we have Manning for a minimum of a full season next season, the board will give him a preseason, more time to make the changes he requires and then if it's still failing their hand will be forced. I see Manning being here until the end of the 24/25 season, unless shit really hits the fan and we find ourselves battling relegation at which point the board will have no option but to find a Pearson manager, someone willing to come in, fix the mess they've created and get us back on track.

22 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

Is it terribly naive to ask the question, if he had his best season, playing in his best position, (which I totally agree with), why when we have the personnel in the team to allow that to happen now, we haven’t. I know there’s the issue of supply but we’ve not even tried it consistently.

 Surely no matter what LM’s game plan is the evidence of Andi’s success, is there for all to see. You can guarantee WBA know that’s where best to play him. 

Conway, Bell, Cornick, Wells... all of these players best position is striker, Andi was far more versatile so at the expense of him playing in his best position he was moved around because he's a team player and willing to do it. I have a feeling Wells and Conway are probably more vocal about playing in that central role, Weimann always hit me as willing to do what was needed which is why I respect him as a person but as a player he should have said "I want that striker role", I mean who knows, maybe he did and was told no but whatever it was we prioritised Conway and Wells ahead of him and used his willingness to play him in other positions. What concerns me is that no-one was willing to go against that decision and say "Andi will score goals in the middle with supply".

12 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Not sure about that, his 39 goals in 8 years suggests otherwise

I'm not saying he'd be prolific, but he'd score, something he's failing to do here because it's on him to create his own chances. 

Even with his low scoring rate his goals to games ratio was still higher at Luton than it is with us, the reason being he got chances at Luton, here he's largely had to create his own. I'm not saying the bloke is a goalscorer, for me he's best in a front 2 creating space for his partner and doing the grunt work. 

On 03/02/2024 at 12:43, TV Tom said:

Personally think this has been a decent window certainly compared to a year ago, who had the bright idea of brining Cornick in and wasting a million on Memheti last January?

I mean it was Manning who likes Mehmeti and wanted to sign him before we beat Oxford to it. I can see talent in Mehmeti but his decision making needs to mature and fast and with Cornick I see a guy giving 100% but getting abuse because he doesn't score, yet all of our strikers can't score at the moment and a lot of our fans are blaming them when they've got no service what so ever. 

WBA took on Andi, played him as a striker which I've seen saying is his best position that we only played him in for one season and then they have him service and instantly he scores. 

Our strikers are not the issue, the lack of service they get is the issue and I honestly think Conway will go in the summer and will be sorting regularly and even Cornick would get goals in a team with service. 

I'm really starting to worry about some of our fans, attacking Max for anything they can, the second the bloke makes a mistake it's all daggers but when he's saving us points it's "that's his job". He's another I'd like to see move on just so he can be appreciated because I think he would be. 

At the end of the day our problems are in our lack of creativity, we can do the basics but we have no flair or punch on the ball. When we were under Pearson he identified that issue and developed a fast counter attacking system to create chances using the pace of our players because he knew the creativity was lacking. Manning has come in and got us playing lovely passing football but it disguises the fact that we have no end product or creativity in the final third. We've also seen that when the opposition plays our own style against us we can become pinned back and fail to make our way up the pitch due to that lack of flair on the ball. 

When I look at other teams there is usually something about them that makes them dangerous, I don't see that with us. We can't supply our striker/s, we cross but have no threat in the air unless it's a set piece, we struggle to create space around the box, we're unable to make those small intricate passes in the opposition area that cause panic and we don't have a single later that excites the crowd when they get on the ball. 

If we lose to Forest I'm interested to see how the players react as that'll be the season done for them. If I were Manning I'd be very concerned about going into next season with morale down, fans interested lower and the board having to deal with the potential losses of Conway and Pring. Pring for me is a mid level Premier League player and staying here will prevent him from progressing, he's by far the best player we have and I can't see us holding onto him. 

2 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

Past it Andi... good for him

He's not past it, we just didn't use him to his strengths and he was never going to give us anything playing how we used him. 

I've had countless discussions about how his best season was when he was used as a proper striker in the middle, that's where he's best but we had too many fighting for that position so he was used out wide, as an AM etc

Much like Wells or Conway, if you give them the supply they'll score goals, that's the difference between us and WBA, they create good chances for their forwards, we rarely do. 

I'd wager Conway would be scoring for fun in a team like WBA too, we may even see that next season oif he's off.

2 hours ago, Redstart said:

When we're buying players we could really use now, but loaning em back to their clubs for the rest of this season - it just says to me we think we're safe and we've written this season off from any achievement perspective and we're planning for next season. 

I think it's more of a case that the clubs knew they'd lose them in the summer for sure so rather than lose them midseason we've made a proposition to buy them and loan them back rather than compete with other clubs for their signature in the summer.

It seems after today's dismal performance everyone is so peeved that they're just looking for any reason to attack the club/owners no matter what it's about. I agree the situation needs to be addressed but at this point people are just looking for anything to complain about. 

For me the main issue is in that we've changed our style of play but don't have the quality to play it against certain teams which means we're easy to beat. We can play the possession football with 3 at the back against some teams and we'll get results, but Manning should know better than to go up against a team like Leeds and put two up front leaving us lacking in the middle and exposed on the wings when they have an abundance of talent that can expose that.

I'm fine with us playing possession football, I'm fine with three at the back, what I'm not fine with is having no second plan for when we go into a match knowing that we're leaving ourselves exposed. 

If we wanted to play two upfront against a higher quality of opponent in good form we should be looking at a flat back 4, 4 in midfield and have Tommy coming back to be the 5th man in midfield until we get in the final third where him and Nhaki could then move into that striker pairing. 

I don't think our issues are as bad as we feel they are after that game, we're not going to be playing Leeds every week but we will need to be able to change our shape on the fly when we are being outplayed and most importantly we need to get points on the board.