chinapig Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 That's what I'd try. And, to my mind, the player with the attributes best suited to that withdrawn role is Lee Trundle. Whether he can learn the position, I don't know, but he as the vision, touch and pass to hold the ball and release people, in my opinion. Football is all about retaining possession. If you do that, you're well on your way. With that in mind, I'd play as many of our ball retainers as possible to get us through this sticky patch i.e. Elliott and Johnson in the middle, Noble and McIndoe on the wings and Trundle behind a striker. Easy game on paper though. Worth a try surely. There are all sorts of variations on 4-5-1. Scolari won a World Cup with two deep midfield players (Kleberson and Silva). Van Basten played a similar style with Holland in the Euros. When they're fit, Ferguson often plays Hargreaves and Carrick deep. Benitez has Mascherano and Alonso. It gives you a solid base' allowing your attacking players more freedom and making you less predictable. Why are we so fixated on 4-4-2 in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Sometimes I can't but feel that many of the people complaining about Johnson are those who argued Gary should leave three years ago (eg "that fateful 9-game run"? What was fateful about it? We got promoted the next year!). Maybe they can't handle being proven wrong, and are picking an easy scapegoat for this frustration. GJ will get it right, and he won't pick LJ for any reason other than that he works well within our team. If you had read my post I had stated that throughout the 'fateful 9 game losing run' I had stood up for GJs actions. While others were calling for his heads I backed GJ to pull the club through and come out the other side a better club. As mentioned before I firmly beleive we are a better club than when GJ first took over. There is no doubt about that, and I thank GJ for taking the difficult decisions back then which weeded out the inbuilt problems in the club such as a lack of work ethic, unprofessionalism and a drinking culture. My question is do we want to stand still or should we be always looking to move forward? If we as fans and GJ wants to be a progressive club then difficult decisions need to be made and personally I feel that this means dropping LJ. Who knows he may come back into the team a stronger player? Fair play to the lad if he does. If he does he deserves to be back too. But as others have mentioned it does seem his mistakes and flaws go unnoticed while others consistently get dropped. Another poster was correct, last season with Noble Trundle and Carle playing in the midfield to forward positions we looked a threat to all teams we played. Even at Stoke we looked like we could have got a result had certain things gone our way. We were better than Hull, at Wembley we lost our full back, moveed Marv to RB and brought on LJ and were poor all game after that. So listen when I say that if LJ is dropped and comes back playing better then good on the guy. but at the moment it seems funny that many problems are stemming from him not being able to defend in Cm or attack in CM. Too many other players are begativly affected by his actions and there are not enough positive actions to compensate this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongwellRed Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 anyone city fan who dislikes lee johnson has never played the game at a decent level, or doesn't really understand what goes on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 anyone city fan who dislikes lee johnson has never played the game at a decent level, or doesn't really understand what goes on.. Seeing as we arent all Semi-pro, perhaps you could enlighten us ignorants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lita For Congo Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 The comment about LJ and semi pro thing.. I don't think people have a problem with what LJ does, I think its what he doesn't do. Am I right in saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunningdalered Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 anyone city fan who dislikes lee johnson has never played the game at a decent level, or doesn't really understand what goes on.. Ok, so is that just a complete wind-up statement, or do you actually mean it? Assume its the latter. By dislike, I assume you mean 'don't believe that he making a telling-enough contribution to the success of the team', or 'isn't influencing games to the extent that some of his opposition counterparts are'? - well, if you mean either of these, count me in. I have been a big fan of LJ since he arrived at AG, and still respect the contribution he makes to the team. I used to be genuinely concerned if he didnt come running out at 2.50pm (unless it wasnt a 3pm k-off :noexpression: ) - but, IMO, he has been far less influential in games this season than he was last - and he does not seem to be developing as a player. TBH, I think LJ has slipped from being the first or second name on the teamsheet to a squad-level player. What we need right now is some inspiration in the middle of the park - LJ is effective but not inspirational. IMO GJ thought we could improve by just enough to challenge again this season with a little bit of tweaking - which was not unreasonable to think seeing how well we did last season - but now realises that something more drastic is required. LJ needs to be part of that assessment. Nepotism accusations are BS. Carle is a show-pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I usually just read opinion on here, but now and again you have to say something!! It seems as though the people using stats to try and back-up Lee Johnson's contribution to the team are the same people using stats to knock Carle's contribution last season. You only have to watch the games to see the difference in class, Carle can pick out a pass, he retains the ball and waits for the right moment to release it and likes to run with it as well. Plus, he's scored 3 already this year - so funnily enough he can score! Unfortunately, LJ doesn't do these things, he plays too deep for someone we want to create opportunities for our attackers, if we're playing Elliott he is there to play deeper, same with Skuse. Maybe he feels the pressure of the fans and doesn't want to get forward - who knows? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times Carle might have been able to thread a ball thorough for Maynard this year, it's a shame but we have to move on. We need Elliott in the middle of the park week in week out if we want to challenge again, he is priceless for the amount of time spent charging around winning the ball. For a predominantly defensive midfielder we are lucky he can burst forward and get the odd goal too. With him I would like to see a diamond formation in the middle with McIndoe, Noble and Trundle. I want LJ to do well, as I do with every single player who pulls on the shirt, but maybe it is time for him to have a rest and some of the heat might be taken away from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizred Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 anyone city fan who dislikes lee johnson has never played the game at a decent level, or doesn't really understand what goes on.. What playing level are you setting the benchmark on before having an opinion on LJ, or any other player for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I usually just read opinion on here, but now and again you have to say something!! It seems as though the people using stats to try and back-up Lee Johnson's contribution to the team are the same people using stats to knock Carle's contribution last season. You only have to watch the games to see the difference in class, Carle can pick out a pass, he retains the ball and waits for the right moment to release it and likes to run with it as well. Plus, he's scored 3 already this year - so funnily enough he can score! Unfortunately, LJ doesn't do these things, he plays too deep for someone we want to create opportunities for our attackers, if we're playing Elliott he is there to play deeper, same with Skuse. Maybe he feels the pressure of the fans and doesn't want to get forward - who knows? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times Carle might have been able to thread a ball thorough for Maynard this year, it's a shame but we have to move on. We need Elliott in the middle of the park week in week out if we want to challenge again, he is priceless for the amount of time spent charging around winning the ball. For a predominantly defensive midfielder we are lucky he can burst forward and get the odd goal too. With him I would like to see a diamond formation in the middle with McIndoe, Noble and Trundle. I want LJ to do well, as I do with every single player who pulls on the shirt, but maybe it is time for him to have a rest and some of the heat might be taken away from him? This is a very sensible post. I am with you in that I want all City players to do well whoever they are. they are part of the team I love and refuse to have a go at a match! However, you are right in saying that if we want Ellitt to be his best we cannot have someone playing deeper than he already play as it leaves us with no-one creating and supplying the front men. I think we just need the right type of player in the midfield. I would still love to see Lee Trundle play in a free role where he can go where he wants. He is so creative but has yet not been given a chance to play to his stregths of dropping off and picking the ball up and runninng at players with his tricks. Also you look at when he has played up front with back to goal he cannot play his flicks unless he has someone running off him. Unfortunatly Elliott is so busy looking after LJ and mopping up for him that Elliott cannot do this. What was so wrong with the team and tactics we had in play offs last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 What was so wrong with the team and tactics we had in play offs last year? There was nothing wrong with the team and tactics last year. This season our midfield definately looks too lightweight without the likes of Carle and/or Elliott. The defence is missing the height of McCombe this season. We now have a stronger strikeforce up front with Maynard partnering Adebola but the ball isn't being played enough to them on the ground from midfield for them to score freely. The fact is that overall the squad is not as strong as it was last season - we could do with the likes of Vasko as well. In conclusion, we lacked strength in depth last season and we lack strength in depth even more this season. It's looking very much like a mid table finishing position for us unless we can strengthen that midfield with a battling and attacking central midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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