Carles Replacement Announced..

[daisybcfc]

It did fail, YES it worked for a while, because of the surprise factor of it, Once teams had scouted us and they soon started adapting to that and playing 5 against us, which resulted in has having to change back to a 4-4-2.

You're talking nonsense! It worked the majority of times we did it!!!! How is having 5 in midfield for a newly promoted side a surprise!?!??! Come on I think you're clutching at straws here...

[kingswood red]

Well obviously not, its obvious I'm not saying that, you asked what evidence I had that he is a decent Championship player so I gave it you. But if we were picking players on form we wouldn't be able to field 11 players at the moment!!! I think Johnson should be playing in a midfield with Elliott and Noble just infront of them.

The reason we're not winning is not down to LJ, I wish some people on here would get that into their heads.

Having been at the game yesterday I would say that LJ was, very, instrumental in us not winning or even drawing. A schoolboy error by him gave away the corner from which Beattie scored. Overall he was ineffective, clueless, lightweight and totally outclassed by 38yr old Gary Speed. The corresponding game last season was a much closer affair with a midfield of Noble Carle Elliot and McIndoe, in that we actually played bloody good football. After the game the Sheffield supporters were waxing lyrical about a certain NC, that midfield took us to Wembly. Orrs tragic injury and Johnsons equally tragic replacement of LJ and the subsequent re-shuffle to accomodate him was, IMHO, the reason for our subsequently poor display.

Nothing would please me more than for LJ to be a fantastic player, unfortunately he ai'nt. I have seen female players who can head and tackle more effectively.

[daisybcfc]

Ummmm really? Won both games 2-1 if I remember rightly?

perhaps you were one of the early leavers in the dolman and were already tucked up in bed?

End of normal time it was 0-1 without Lee. He came on in extra time when we won the game.

And no mate I was in the East End.

[redrob]

What do you make of this style of play.

- Drop LJ and play a midfielder who can win the ball and hold his own in the centre of midfield.

- This player will allow Marv to break through and jopin the attacks quicker.

- PLay the ball into Deles feet so he can play off to the fast breaking Marv.

- Fast Breaking Marv lays a through ball to Maynard who is playing on shoulder of last defender.

OR

- Drop LJ play Marv in Ball wining role IE Makele

- Bring in Noble or trundle behind front men to allow same thing to happen as mentioned above.

What do you all reckon?

[Big Nose]

It did fail, YES it worked for a while, because of the surprise factor of it, Once teams had scouted us and they soon started adapting to that and playing 5 against us, which resulted in has having to change back to a 4-4-2.

I think that you are delusional.

Just remind me again which professional football team you manage?

[Longacre_red]

The abuse he got after giving away the corner yesterday was a disgrace!! if i was him id ask to leave, it was completley out of order. Despite the fact that it was originaly a terrible throw from Basso, a pathetic tackle from Mcallister (who lost out to Billy Sharp who was on the floor). Did Basso or Mcallister get anywhere near the amount of abuse Johnson did (If any)? Of course not.

Maybe if we were playing football and not hoofball, we would see more of what Johnson has to offer!!

Who is it who generally gives the ball out to Mcindoe or Wilson on the wings?

[scumbag]

You're talking nonsense! It worked the majority of times we did it!!!! How is having 5 in midfield for a newly promoted side a surprise!?!??! Come on I think you're clutching at straws here...

No I'm not.

We started the season playing 4-4-2 and did for a number of games until we got battered at Barnsley, we then suddenly switched to 4-5-1 for the sheffield utd game and then we went on a good run as the formotion chtilange and having the extra man in midfield helped until other teams contended on to it and adapted and then we switched back to 4-4-2 on a number of games, which then resulted in the signing of Adebola and a perm switch back to 4-4-2.

[scumbag]

End of normal time it was 0-1 without Lee. He came on in extra time when we won the game.

And no mate I was in the East End.

WHAT THE F@@K ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

End of 90mins losing 0-1, Extra Time, Trundle scored 1-1, Lee Johnson on 109min comes on at a free kick, before even LJ touchs the ball, McIndoe scores from the Free Kick. 2-1 City.

Score at end is 2-1

are you just deluded? or are you just trying to maniulate the facts to suit your view point?

[kingswood red]

The abuse he got after giving away the corner yesterday was a disgrace!! if i was him id ask to leave, it was completley out of order. Despite the fact that it was originaly a terrible throw from Basso, a pathetic tackle from Mcallister (who lost out to Billy Sharp who was on the floor). Did Basso or Mcallister get anywhere near the amount of abuse Johnson did (If any)? Of course not.

Maybe if we were playing football and not hoofball, we would see more of what Johnson has to offer!!

Who is it who generally gives the ball out to Mcindoe or Wilson on the wings?

The pathetic way LJ gave away the corner was a disgrace, he had time to put it out for a throw in instead of trying a fancy flick which, as usual, didn't come off. Unfortunately his mistakes are becoming many and costly, that is why fans, who spent a lot of money to see it, are disgruntled with him, that and the fact he is never subbed is getting, quite frankly, embarrassing.

[Longacre_red]

The pathetic way LJ gave away the corner was a disgrace, he had time to put it out for a throw in instead of trying a fancy flick which, as usual, didn't come off. Unfortunately his mistakes are becoming many and costly, that is why fans, who spent a lot of money to see it, are disgruntled with him, that and the fact he is never subbed is getting, quite frankly, embarrassing.

You can also say the Pathetic way Basso ###### up big time with his throw and the way Mcallister somehow lost a tackle against someone around half his size who was on the floor was Pathetic.

I'm not saying Lee johnson wasn't at fault for the corner because i agree it wasnt a clever thing to do, but the abuse he got was terrible, it was personal and not warented at all!

Out of interest when was Johnsons last mistake before yesterday? (Not fishing, i honestly don't know)

[scumbag]

I think that you are delusional.

Just remind me again which professional football team you manage?

Thanks for your valid comments and views that have contributed to this thread, if you have something worth saying it, SAY IT.

if your just going to pop into threads and make pointless insults.....don't bother....it's pointless and immature.

[daisybcfc]

WHAT THE F@@K ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

End of 90mins losing 0-1, Extra Time, Trundle scored 1-1, Lee Johnson on 109min comes on at a free kick, before even LJ touchs the ball, McIndoe scores from the Free Kick. 2-1 City.

Score at end is 2-1

are you just deluded? or are you just trying to maniulate the facts to suit your view point?

Manipulating facts seems the order of the day, you tried to say that without LJ we are better and gave examples including a game we lost over the 90 minutes. You gave 3 examples of matches of without Lee when there were 20 odd over the first half of last season with him where we were 2nd in the league.

That is WHAT THE F@@K i'm TALKING ABOUT.

[daisybcfc]

No I'm not.

We started the season playing 4-4-2 and did for a number of games until we got battered at Barnsley, we then suddenly switched to 4-5-1 for the sheffield utd game and then we went on a good run as the formotion chtilange and having the extra man in midfield helped until other teams contended on to it and adapted and then we switched back to 4-4-2 on a number of games, which then resulted in the signing of Adebola and a perm switch back to 4-4-2.

I'm not claiming you're lying but that really isn't true!

4-5-1 against Scunny at home, Murray supporting Trundle.

4-5-1 against Wednesday away.

4-5-1 against WBA at home, Sproule supporting Trundle.

i could go on.

[scumbag]

Manipulating facts seems the order of the day, you tried to say that without LJ we are better and gave examples including a game we lost over the 90 minutes. You gave 3 examples of matches of without Lee when there were 20 odd over the first half of last season with him where we were 2nd in the league.

That is WHAT THE F@@K i'm TALKING ABOUT.

depends on your view of what matters more? Winning a game after 90mins......or winning a game after Extra Time. I'd go with the latter?. I don't think that's up for debate? do you actually view it that we lost that game? I'm sure Palace fans don't look back at that game and think.....what a good win?

the 3 examples of matches that i made were purely in reference to the person who stated that without LJ we didn't win a game, which was incorrect.

I've not manipulated a thing, unless your willing to point out otherwise

[Port Said Red]

I'm fed up at looking at Stats, just watch the matches. When we play quality sides like Sheff Utd, Wolves etc. LJ and others are no where to be seen. Thats why we need to bring in quality to kick on from last season.

Which is precisely the problem, every fan has their favourites and their villians, only seeing evidence that backs their judgment either way. I am sure I have done it myself in the past. Good Coaches and Managers, who are professional, will look at all the evidence, not just what fits their pre-conceptions.

Against the best team I have seen at the gate so far (Birmingham) LJ was easily our best player, always in support and trying to probe for openings. If Sproule had finished at least one of the chances that LJ made for him, maybe even you would have seen that.

[scumbag]

I'm not claiming you're lying but that really isn't true!

4-5-1 against Scunny at home, Murray supporting Trundle.

4-5-1 against Wednesday away.

4-5-1 against WBA at home, Sproule supporting Trundle.

i could go on.

I recall all 3 of those games, all 3 of which were played 4-4-2, Sproule and Murray were played (mistakenly) as forwards in those games.

I can easily go back and did out the old threads, many a person since has suggested playing Murray and Sproule as forwards due to their finishing (murray) and Pace (Sproule) but have been reminded of those games where it didn't work, which then resulted in the signing of Byfield due to lack of pacey poacher at the club.

[daisybcfc]

depends on your view of what matters more? Winning a game after 90mins......or winning a game after Extra Time. I'd go with the latter?. I don't think that's up for debate? do you actually view it that we lost that game? I'm sure Palace fans don't look back at that game and think.....what a good win?

the 3 examples of matches that i made were purely in reference to the person who stated that without LJ we didn't win a game, which was incorrect.

I've not manipulated a thing, unless your willing to point out otherwise

I know thats not up for debate, I obviously see it as a win. But what I'm saying is you can either make that sound like we missed LJ or we didn't need him depending on your view so therefore shouldn't be used by either side because holes can be picked in both arguments, thats what i meant by your manipulation of facts.

I agree that without LJ we have won, I don't know the stats but what was stated previously in this topic were obviously wrong.

I just think he gets a rough deal on here and seems like he is used as some sort of excuse to our failings.

I however disagree strongly that our 4-5-1 'failed' last season!

[Lack of Action Man]

Although I believe Lj has done well this season so far you raise a crucial point without realising.

When have you seen Carle play this season? You've not is the answer I'm guessing. He's scored 3 goals admittidly but got subbed early the other week after a poor performance. How many goals or assists did Carle get at his spell with us?

At least he is getting subbed if he makes a shocking performance which is more than can be said for Lj or Cole Skuse-less

[Br1stolCityBoy]

You can also say the Pathetic way Basso ###### up big time with his throw and the way Mcallister somehow lost a tackle against someone around half his size who was on the floor was Pathetic.

I'm not saying Lee johnson wasn't at fault for the corner because i agree it wasnt a clever thing to do, but the abuse he got was terrible, it was personal and not warented at all!

Out of interest when was Johnsons last mistake before yesterday? (Not fishing, i honestly don't know)

Against Derby at home when he gave the ball to them in our box for them to score. My point is besides he's not good enough for this level, when he makes mistakes or doesn't play well does his dad drop him or at least substitute him, like he does with other players. UH NO!!!

[daisybcfc]

I recall all 3 of those games, all 3 of which were played 4-4-2, Sproule and Murray were played (mistakenly) as forwards in those games.

I can easily go back and did out the old threads, many a person since has suggested playing Murray and Sproule as forwards due to their finishing (murray) and Pace (Sproule) but have been reminded of those games where it didn't work, which then resulted in the signing of Byfield due to lack of pacey poacher at the club.

Seeing all 3 of those games Murray and Sproule didn't play as out and out strikers! They played as floating midfielders with the freedom to get forward, what i feel we're lacking now.

[scumbag]

I know thats not up for debate, I obviously see it as a win. But what I'm saying is you can either make that sound like we missed LJ or we didn't need him depending on your view so therefore shouldn't be used by either side because holes can be picked in both arguments, thats what i meant by your manipulation of facts.

I agree that without LJ we have won, I don't know the stats but what was stated previously in this topic were obviously wrong.

I just think he gets a rough deal on here and seems like he is used as some sort of excuse to our failings.

I however disagree strongly that our 4-5-1 'failed' last season!

ok I kinda I agree, FAILED is possibly the wrong word, more of a "worked for a while"

[daisybcfc]

ok I kinda I agree, FAILED is possibly the wrong word, more of a "worked for a while"

I think it will work again, especially to get the best out of our players. We need a creative player playing alongside a solid 4 in midfield and a solo striker. This is how I feel we can get the best from our squad.

[bs3]

End of last season when we played Place, Sheff Utd, we really looked a decent team with out LJ.

Carle, Noble and Trundle were the players that stood out, also Mckindo was quality, Elliot was not fully fit but still did well.

So the start of this season Trundle and Noble can't get a start and Carle is sold, we are left with Skuse and Johnson in midfield that is one of the reason we are not playing well because they are not good enough. I think the squad is good enough but I feel we are not playing are best 11.

I never really rated Johnson for the reason others have stated. He never chase back when loses the ball, he never gets forward running into the box to get on the end of a cross. He bottles takles. Anyone who have played football in midfield knows that LJ cheats, he don't goes with his runners but he see alot of the ball by just playing in his box, and when he gets the ball from the defence he just pass the ball back.

A lot of fans have question marks over LJ but when we kept on winning it wasn't the time to ask questions but now we are not winning LJ need to prove his worth in the team and at the momment he is not.

[greenun]

I'm not claiming you're lying but that really isn't true!

4-5-1 against Scunny at home, Murray supporting Trundle.

4-5-1 against Wednesday away.

4-5-1 against WBA at home, Sproule supporting Trundle.

i could go on.

Lee Johnson plays a very 'safe' role in midfield which doesn't require him to beat his opponent, (he doesn't) trouble the opposition goalkeeper by shooting with conviction, (he doesn't do that either) or advance beyond the back four. However, if City fans are satisfied by a creative midfielder who can't create, but can spray passes sideways then Lee is your man. Safe.

Now, putting the silly nepotism conspiracy theory aside, just imagine you're Gary Johnson. Can you trust David Noble to have the stamina to complete 90+ testing minutes of Championship football? No, he's let me down too many times before, and I'm not sure about that Welsh prodigal either. So I'll pick the best of the worst, thanks.

[Tales From The Front]

Lee Johnson plays a very 'safe' role in midfield which doesn't require him to beat his opponent, (he doesn't) trouble the opposition goalkeeper by shooting with conviction, (he doesn't do that either) or advance beyond the back four. However, if City fans are satisfied by a creative midfielder who can't create, but can spray passes sideways then Lee is your man. Safe.

Now, putting the silly nepotism conspiracy theory aside, just imagine you're Gary Johnson. Can you trust David Noble to have the stamina to complete 90+ testing minutes of Championship football? No, he's let me down too many times before, and I'm not sure about that Welsh either. So I'll pick the best of the worst, thanks.

Fair enough argument, but it does beg the question why in that case have we not busted a gut for a player that can last 90 plus mins and ofers more than a packet of durex????

Perhaps we are??? I think many would hope so.

[Brizred]

What do you make of this style of play.

- Drop LJ and play a midfielder who can win the ball and hold his own in the centre of midfield.

- This player will allow Marv to break through and jopin the attacks quicker.

- PLay the ball into Deles feet so he can play off to the fast breaking Marv.

- Fast Breaking Marv lays a through ball to Maynard who is playing on shoulder of last defender.

OR

- Drop LJ play Marv in Ball wining role IE Makele

- Bring in Noble or trundle behind front men to allow same thing to happen as mentioned above.

What do you all reckon?

Yep, you're not far wrong with that assessment, many ways of making space and thats one of them, seems everyone's worried about the opposition rather then being confident of what we can do. With a back four of Wilson, Carey, Fontaine and McAllister pushing up and keeping a high line then Noble servicing the strikers and wide men (Trundle and McIndoe) and Elliott covering his usual ground. Dele up front with Maynard. Wilson and McAllister overlapping whipping croosses in. Time for positives and that side with Weale as keeper would give any team in this league a good workout and be great to watch.

[Denilson]

Be Gary Johnson's downfall will the little jockey.

[petehinton]

6 goals in what.... 3 seasons at the club?

Rubbish contribution for a CM

[Seend Red]

It was very clear from the beginning who the replacement for NC was.

He was already here. The managers son. I am sorry to say that my suspicions over the relatinship between our manager and his son seem to be getting more realistic every game.

LJ is an average-low championship midfielder. He is does not score nor does he set up goals. While he makes lots of passes,the stats do not show what happens with all these passes. He loses the ball in critiacal areas (due to where he plays his football) he does not break forward and cause opposing midfielders to face their own goal and nor does he make challenges that slow down opposititon attacks.

Carle has shown evidence of doing all the above since he replaced LJ at the back end of last season and now he has moved onto Palace (Has been one of their best players in nearly every game) (and they are only 1 point behind us).

I have supported GJ the whole time (even when he was laying the law down during that fateful 9 game losing run in League 1). However, I am shaken by the loyalty and apparent blindness to the problem that is causing one of our best players (M.Elliott) to be struggling with fitness)

Agreed. Johnson wouldn't get in any other top end Championship side . The bloke does little to effect he game but seems untouchable and is a guaranteed fixture in the side regardless of form .

Getting beyond the joke.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

CHRIST .... this is getting boring every week. Simple enough to realise that GJ believes in his team playing a certian way and HE believes that Lee is critical to this system. It was the same at Yeovil as it is here and i don't understand the stick that he still gets. If we were struggling at the foot of the table then i would understand. We are not a big team in the championship and as long as we stay there for a couple of seasons then we can build towards the Premier League. We cant really expect to compete against the bigger clubs in this league that have got parachute payments given to them. We have to consolodate ourselves for a couple of years, then get rid of the players that don't push themselves into the first team like Myre williams, Skuse, Wilson, Brooker etc and replace them with quality but that takes time.

I used to be a big fan of LJ but i think that this year he has struggled;. He is much more effective in a 5 man midfield but he does not deserve the stick that he gets and Gary J certainly doesnt.

Get a grip on reality and realise that it takes years to build a squad capable of the next level.