chinapig Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 If Palarse had Stern John, Dele Adebola, Nicky Maynard and Lee Trundle in front of their midfield - that includes Nick Carle - they'd be top. Our midfield is far too lightweight to supply the forwards. Where were the crosses from McInoe and Sproule against Reading - what was Lee Johnson up to while the Reading Royalists were cruising past him? The only one tackling in midfield was Marvin Elliott. Funny because my perspective was that Marv did little or no tackling (and hasn't done anywhere near as much as last season- is he protecting an injury?) and was steam rollered by Cisse when they came up against each other. I was also struck by how many times Reading played long balls into space knowing their front men could outpace our defence, rather than building from the back. Funny game football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thing is when he's been driven out of this club and we miss him people will be moaning because we no longer have him. Yes he hasn't been great lately but that's a confidence issue because of all the stick he is getting. LJ plays much better away from home and it isn't hard to figure out why. I think it could be more to the fact he and his wife have just had a child perhaps he not getting his 8 hours a night . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Surprised is the word I would have used. He seemed a useful player - but not the messiah some want to elevate him to. I think it was just the case that a lot of people saw how good Carle could be or how good he will be. Including me. I was devastated when we sold him and I couldn't believe it was to Palace.....of all people. I have seen him play for Palace this season a few times and he has looked very good. Not amazing, but very good and I cant but help thinking what a great loss he was. I think goals, assists etc are only a small indicator to the quality of a player. Palace will finish a lot higher than us this season, but would you be suprised? A central midfield partnership of Watson and Carle, is a hell of a lot stronger than any two combinations that we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 exactly, it's a fair comparsion, I'd take Tommy anyday of the week, on the basis that he isn't a bottler. You've got to wonder what this club could have acheived with the likes of Stern John, Dele Adebola, Nicky Maynard and Lee Trundle in front of a Tinman and Tommy Doc central midfield. We did well with the likes of Tony Thorpe and Shaun Goater in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 exactly, it's a fair comparsion, I'd take Tommy anyday of the week, on the basis that he isn't a bottler. So, let me be clear about this - you would prefer an LDV trophy and Tommy Doc. over a promotion to the Chempionship and LJ?? Wow - I admire your ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 So, let me be clear about this - you would prefer an LDV trophy and Tommy Doc. over a promotion to the Chempionship and LJ?? Wow - I admire your ambition. It's not a fair comparison because Lee Johnson is in a far better and more expensive side than Tommy Doc was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 So, let me be clear about this - you would prefer an LDV trophy and Tommy Doc. over a promotion to the Chempionship and LJ?? Wow - I admire your ambition. Ummm, NO. you have missed the point, Tommy has played in a Promotion team for City as well, jesus are some people just stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I think it was just the case that a lot of people saw how good Carle could be or how good he will be. Including me. But not including the man that counts. Palace will finish a lot higher than us this season, but would you be suprised? Yes, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 You've got to wonder what this club could have acheived with the likes of Stern John, Dele Adebola, Nicky Maynard and Lee Trundle in front of a Tinman and Tommy Doc central midfield. We did well with the likes of Tony Thorpe and Shaun Goater in front of them. apart from the likes of Julian Watts and Sean Dyche in defence, we had a very good team. I wonder how the team of our defence/keeper now, would have done with the midfield and attack from then. oh and Goater had gone by then, but we did have Akinbiyi and Soren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ummm, NO. you have missed the point, Tommy has played in a Promotion team for City as well, And was part of a team that couldn't cut it in the equivalent of the Championship as well. jesus are some people just stupid? Don't be so hard on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 A central midfield partnership of Watson and Carle, is a hell of a lot stronger than any two combinations that we currently have. totally agree, however it is worth remember than when Carle was signed by them, he was as a replacement for Watson, who ended up staying, Watson will be gone in Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's not a fair comparison because Lee Johnson is in a far better and more expensive side than Tommy Doc was in. The side Gary got us promoted with was far less expensive than the one Danny Wilson failed to get promotion with. Lees Peacock and Miller cost us close to a million for instance. Wilson certainly had a lot more to spend than his rivals and left when Steve told him he couldn't spend more and had to cut the budget. Sadly players like Tommy Doc, Aaron Brown and Danny Coles who should have had big futures blew it by being unprofessional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 And was part of a team that couldn't cut it in the equivalent of the Championship as well. he was injured for a large part of that season, an injury that ruled him out for best part of 2/3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 But not including the man that counts. Yes, I would. Unfortunately that is true. So, in essence, GJ has admitted that he made a bad signing so offloaded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 apart from the likes of Julian Watts and Sean Dyche in defence, we had a very good team. I wonder how the team of our defence/keeper now, would have done with the midfield and attack from then. oh and Goater had gone by then, but we did have Akinbiyi and Soren. You've got me thinking hard now. So you're writing about the 1998/99 season BCFC side? Not the Pulis crocked and injury prone side of 1999/2000? At the end of the day Tommy Doc was a great player mainly at the wrong time for us as there was great turmoil with so many different managers coming and going. Had there not been so much turmoil at BCFC during Tommy Docs time here he may have been able to be a good player in this current division but he never got that chance with us being relegated after just one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 he was injured for a large part of that season, an injury that ruled him out for best part of 2/3 years. Ah, so we were relegated that season because of The Doc's injury - of course! And tell me - why was he so injury prone? And while we're at it - why don't we get that nice Mr Wilson back managing the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ah, so we were relegated that season because of The Doc's injury - of course! And tell me - why was he so injury prone? And while we're at it - why don't we get that nice Mr Wilson back managing the club. We were relegated because John Ward was sacked after just a few games in charge in what is now this Championship division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 We were relegated because John Ward was sacked after just a few games in charge in what is now this Championship division. Sacked? Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sacked? Are you sure? Check with Steve Lansdown if you really need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sadly players like Tommy Doc, Aaron Brown and Danny Coles who should have had big futures blew it by being unprofessional. All three had bad injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Check with Steve Lansdown if you really need to know. I thought his position became untenable when Lennartsson was brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 All three had bad injuries. Sure but those were not the reasons for them failing to make the level they should have. Recovering from injury is a lot easier if you act professionally off the field. I'm not sure they could claim that's what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I thought his position became untenable when Lennartsson was brought in. John Ward wanted someone else as his assistant - may have been Harford? The board appointed Lennartsson instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ah, so we were relegated that season because of The Doc's injury - of course! And tell me - why was he so injury prone? what? where have I said that? it wasn't solely down to his injury, but because a few key players from the previous season were injured and not replaced, mostly Shaun Taylor, but Tommy's injury didn't help matters either. as for him being injury prone, at that point in time he wasn't..... and your attempting to totally mislead this for your own benefit. Tommy wasn't injury prone at that point, at the time of the injury, he was still one of the most promising player we had had for a very long time, and debateably we haven't had as promising player since. The Tommy that did finally come back from Injury a few years later wasn't the same player and he never got to the same level of fitness, which in turn resulted in the changes of his personally life and the drinking issues, even then though he was still on of our best players while in League 1 and his form did enough to get him a move back to the championship. The biggest problem is that many seem to forget the young battling midfielder who broke into a promotion chasing and was so impressive that it resulted in a experience and decent player such as Gary Owers being released, all people remember is the player after injury who wasn't the same and even less so after he started drinking, even then, he was still one of our best players at that level and a player who I'd still rate higher than Lee Johnson in what he'd done for City. but still, you stick to your silly little one liner's having a pop at everyone and anyone without actually backing up any view you hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 John Ward wanted someone else as his assistant - may have been Harford? The board appointed Lennartsson instead. correct. Ward publically stated that he didn't know how to turns things around at City and understandably the board lost faith in him, he wanted Harford (who wanted silly money to Work Part-Time) but the club went for Lennartsson who had a good rep accross europe, but was unknown in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 what? where have I said that? it wasn't solely down to his injury, but because a few key players from the previous season were injured and not replaced, mostly Shaun Taylor, but Tommy's injury didn't help matters either. as for him being injury prone, at that point in time he wasn't..... and your attempting to totally mislead this for your own benefit. Tommy wasn't injury prone at that point, at the time of the injury, he was still one of the most promising player we had had for a very long time, and debateably we haven't had as promising player since. The Tommy that did finally come back from Injury a few years later wasn't the same player and he never got to the same level of fitness, which in turn resulted in the changes of his personally life and the drinking issues, even then though he was still on of our best players while in League 1 and his form did enough to get him a move back to the championship. The biggest problem is that many seem to forget the young battling midfielder who broke into a promotion chasing and was so impressive that it resulted in a experience and decent player such as Gary Owers being released, all people remember is the player after injury who wasn't the same and even less so after he started drinking, even then, he was still one of our best players at that level and a player who I'd still rate higher than Lee Johnson in what he'd done for City. but still, you stick to your silly little one liner's having a pop at everyone and anyone without actually backing up any view you hold. I keep to one liners so that you can keep up! ;-) I don't believe I've expressed voews other than Carle isn't and wasn't the answer to our problems - and I've included many many examples of why I believe that. And the other is that I don't believe that LJ is picked because of who his dad is and that he is more than adequate at this level - again I've usually said why. But, I don't like to repeat myself - unlike you. And if missing nearly a whole season through a variety of injuries isn't injury prone I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 And if missing nearly a whole season through a variety of injuries isn't injury prone I don't know what is. perhaps I'm the one who should stick to one liners, so that you can understand. as ever point missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 perhaps I'm the one who should stick to one liners, so that you can understand. as ever point missed. You see - I went for more than one line and you couldn't handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I keep to one liners so that you can keep up! ;-) I don't believe I've expressed voews other than Carle isn't and wasn't the answer to our problems - and I've included many many examples of why I believe that. And the other is that I don't believe that LJ is picked because of who his dad is and that he is more than adequate at this level - again I've usually said why. But, I don't like to repeat myself - unlike you. And if missing nearly a whole season through a variety of injuries isn't injury prone I don't know what is. Lee Johnson was excellent for us in Div 1 but he's been found wanting against the better sides like Birmingham and Reading in this division this season. Some of the players we had from Div 1 are easily good enough against any team in this division. Unfortunately for Lee Johnson and a few others they're just not good enough for the club to progress up the league. The club could stabilize in this division with existing players or push on to the Premier League with new blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Lee Johnson was excellent for us in Div 1 but he's been found wanting against the better sides like Birmingham and Reading in this division this season. Some of the players we had from Div 1 are easily good enough against any team in this division. Unfortunately for Lee Johnson and a few others they're just not good enough for the club to progress up the league. The club could stabilize in this division with existing players or push on to the Premier League with new blood. I don't think I've ever argued against that view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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