Give Orr The Money?!

[Lee F]

Orr can go and do one, he is a half decent Rb thats it.

Players like Orr are two a penny at this level, I'm sure we can get somebody in thats at least as good if not better.

Ok I will humour you.

Who could we get?

How will we afford it?

Are they available?

[bh_red]

We're just speculating of course, but i wouldnt be surprised to find another club or an agent was involved here somewhere - telling Bradley he'd get more money somewhere else. And i think he probably HAS asked for more money than the other defenders as a result.

Now, don't get me wrong, this isnt a go a Orr, but he appears to be the sort of footballer who could be easily led by "advisors" and i think they might have something to do with this transfer-request.

If you give way to Orr, then all the other agents will smell blood and be knocking on the managers door.

Its a shame, because he's turned into a decent right-back, but he was nothing before GJ came here and i think he can be replaced.

someone else has already mentioned it, but I don't believe Orr even has an agent and just used to local PFA rep for his deal, also from what GJ has actually said about the situation, to be fair he did say that Orr decided to reject the decision himself, normally managers are only to happy to have a pop at a players agent, but there was no mention of any agents when Johnson made the decision.

In someways, I'm sure it's possibly worked against Bradley because an agent could probably got that few extra quid he wanted and debateable deserved. The club blame the agents for screw clubs over, then the clubs try to screw players over if they decide the player doesn't need an agent. Hopefully this can still be resolved.

[Keep the Faith]

I've wondered sometimes over the last year or so how good Brian Wilson would be if he was given a run in the team. He's got pace which is a big bonus for a full back but having seen his last two peformances he's been caught hopelessley out of position on numerous occassions. He hasn't played much at full back recently, which may or may not explain this but I don't think we can afford to hang around too long trying to find out.

When I first heard that Orr had turned down the contract and wouldnt be played I thought fair enough we'll be ok Orr's a decent player but he shouldnt be to too badly missed. Now I think we need to get him back in the team and if his performances and that of the rest of the defence aren't affected then it's all good and we play him until the end of the season when we let him go and Riberio gets his chance as first choice right back and Wilson goes back to being what it appears he's best at at this level, a decent squad utility player but not a first teamer.

[Nibor]

someone else has already mentioned it, but I don't believe Orr even has an agent and just used to local PFA rep for his deal, also from what GJ has actually said about the situation, to be fair he did say that Orr decided to reject the decision himself, normally managers are only to happy to have a pop at a players agent, but there was no mention of any agents when Johnson made the decision.

In someways, I'm sure it's possibly worked against Bradley because an agent could probably got that few extra quid he wanted and debateable deserved. The club blame the agents for screw clubs over, then the clubs try to screw players over if they decide the player doesn't need an agent. Hopefully this can still be resolved.

The club have said publicly that other players signed on similar money - and those other players were Fonts and McCombe at least. That's not been disputed by Orr and I'm sure if they're telling porkies it would have been.

IMO Orr's not worth more than other players. Someone like Carey who is hugely important to the side is but for me Orr is nowhere near that important. He's a solid committed defender with crap control and passing - average at this level.

If Bradley thinks he's worth more money than the likes of Wilson, Fontaine and McCombe just because he made the PFA team then he's wrong and he won't get a better offer elsewhere.

Good luck to him, no axe to grind, but he's made a poor decision.

[Bris Red]

Ok I will humour you.

Who could we get?

How will we afford it?

Are they available?

I havnt the foggiest idea who is out there, thats why we have a scouting network that can probably name at least 2 or 3 Rbs that are as good as Orr.

I'm really suprised by the reaction regarding Orr, he is an average Rb nothing more nothing less, i find him awful in possesion he cant cross to save his life and he never booms on like lots of other Right backs in the championship.

If he could sort his touch and distrbution out he potentially is an excellent player, however in modern football you need a lot more than just commitment.

I caint wait to see were he ends up, he obviously has a club lined up (me thinks Watford but culd be wrong) i will laugh so much if it all falls through.

[Keep the Faith]

Well he's a scouser so should be used to being on the dole...

[Lee F]

I havnt the foggiest idea who is out there, thats why we have a scouting network that can probably name at least 2 or 3 Rbs that are as good as Orr.

I'm really suprised by the reaction regarding Orr, he is an average Rb nothing more nothing less, i find him awful in possesion he cant cross to save his life and he never booms on like lots of other Right backs in the championship.

If he could sort his touch and distrbution out he potentially is an excellent player, however in modern football you need a lot more than just commitment.

I caint wait to see were he ends up, he obviously has a club lined up (me thinks Watford but culd be wrong) i will laugh so much if it all falls through.

My issue is not that he is the best RB in the world and deserves super pay checks. I just feel that parity is required and has not been given. People are being mis guided into thinking he has asked for a huge pay rise over and above that of other players in the squad. This does not include strikers either as they are usually paid more which seems to be accepted universally whether that is right or not is another debate.

Let me explain it another way, how would you feel if someone in your company doing the same job as you were but are earning twice as much as you and when you asked the employer for him to give you just 50% of the difference between you and your colleague and was told 'No chance, take whats on offer or nothing' what would you do?

[Nibor]

My issue is not that he is the best RB in the world and deserves super pay checks. I just feel that parity is required and has not been given. People are being mis guided into thinking he has asked for a huge pay rise over and above that of other players in the squad. This does not include strikers either as they are usually paid more which seems to be accepted universally whether that is right or not is another debate.

Let me explain it another way, how would you feel if someone in your company doing the same job as you were but are earning twice as much as you and when you asked the employer for him to give you just 50% of the difference between you and your colleague and was told 'No chance, take whats on offer or nothing' what would you do?

He HAS asked for significantly more money that other comparable players in the squad.

[Lee F]

He HAS asked for significantly more money that other comparable players in the squad.

Sorry Nibor. I do not beleive that to be true.

[Nibor]

Sorry Nibor. I do not beleive that to be true.

"Brad was offered a contract in July along with a lot of the other lads," revealed Gary on Bristol City World. "Brad turned down the contract, while other defenders and midfielders signed up on similar money."

If GJ was publicly lying don't you think Orr, who isn't exactly the shy and retiring type, would have something to say about it?

[Lee F]

"Brad was offered a contract in July along with a lot of the other lads," revealed Gary on Bristol City World. "Brad turned down the contract, while other defenders and midfielders signed up on similar money."

If GJ was publicly lying don't you think Orr, who isn't exactly the shy and retiring type, would have something to say about it?

what is similar?

Is 8k over 2yrs to a midfielder or defender similar to 5k over 1yr to a defender or midfielder ?

Is that parity? Is that fair?

With all due respect Brad has more inteligence and respect than to speak openly on this subject. He is afterall still an employee of BCFC.

And before anyone does a Stockhousen about his past - yes he has grown up!

[Nibor]

what is similar?

Is 8k over 2yrs to a midfielder or defender similar to 5k over 1yr to a defender or midfielder ?

Is that parity? Is that fair?

With all due respect Brad has more inteligence and respect than to speak openly on this subject. He is afterall still an employee of BCFC.

And before anyone does a Stockhousen about his past - yes he has grown up!

No those figures aren't similar, which is exactly what I'm talking about.

Do you think Orr is worth 3k a week more than the players who did sign?

Do you think GJ is lying about the contract offer?

[Lee F]

No those figures aren't similar, which is exactly what I'm talking about.

Do you think Orr is worth 3k a week more than the players who did sign?

Do you think GJ is lying about the contract offer?

I think you will find it is the smaller amount that relates to Brad!!! Hence my defence of him.

The point several people have made on here about someone being on considerably more than others who are of the same stature is actually true, in fact it it that very reason that has bought this about!

No I think he was offered a contract GJ is not lying about that, but I think the contract offered is not on a par with others of a similar stature within the squad.

[Nibor]

I think you will find it is the smaller amount that relates to Brad!!! Hence my defence of him.

The point several people have made on here about someone being on considerably more than others who are of the same stature is actually true, in fact it it that very reason that has bought this about!

No I think he was offered a contract GJ is not lying about that, but I think the contract offered is not on a par with others of a similar stature within the squad.

You've got the right figures the wrong way around mate.

Think about it - how does it make sense for the club to offer Bradley Orr significantly less than the other players who did sign?

[Lee F]

You've got the right figures the wrong way around mate.

Think about it - how does it make sense for the club to offer Bradley Orr significantly less than the other players who did sign?

That is the point you are missing mate! Other players have accepted what Bradley has refused but there are deals in place that are significantly greater than those.

Figures are -

Player A has a contract of 8k + bonuses over x years.

Brad asked for a fair bit less than that over 2yrs and was told no.

Nibor, I totally respect you as a poster and you have been proved right many times, but this time you are miles off honestly!

[Nibor]

That is the point you are missing mate! Other players have accepted what Bradley has refused but there are deals in place that are significantly greater than those.

Figures are -

Player A has a contract of 8k + bonuses over x years.

Brad asked for a fair bit less than that over 2yrs and was told no.

Nibor, I totally respect you as a poster and you have been proved right many times, but this time you are miles off honestly!

Looks like we've both got different information then.

Maybe Orr is comparing himself to the wrong players.

[Lee F]

Looks like we've both got different information then.

Maybe Orr is comparing himself to the wrong players.

Tell you what Nibor, BS3 anytime from 1pm on Saturday and we can have a cider (without ice) on me and swap info. Cant miss me sat in the garden with 'little ginge'!

No doubt the truth will out eventually and I will be happy to admit I was wrong...............still don't think I am though!

[bh_red]

If GJ was publicly lying don't you think Orr, who isn't exactly the shy and retiring type, would have something to say about it?

To be fair, Orr like others who have fallen foul to Johnson or the club in the past has kept quiet publically as after all he's still a club employee and I'm sure he's probably still hoping a deal can be done and too be honest GJ is still his boss so has attempted to stop him from talking to the media, whether he actually wants to or not is another story (but it didn't do Carey any favours in the past)

I'm sure like with some of the others in the past, we will only actually hear anything if/when he leaves City.

Wether he goes for the public hammering of manager/club like Phillips or the dignified silence like others, time will tell.

[Lee F]

To be fair, Orr like others who have fallen foul to Johnson or the club in the past has kept quiet publically as after all he's still a club employee and I'm sure he's probably still hoping a deal can be done and too be honest GJ is still his boss so has attempted to stop him from talking to the media, whether he actually wants to or not is another story (but it didn't do Carey any favours in the past)

I'm sure like with some of the others in the past, we will only actually hear anything if/when he leaves City.

Wether he goes for the public hammering of manager/club like Phillips or the dignified silence like others, time will tell.

I cant imagine Brad bad mouthing the club ever. He loves City like a fan, and always will.

[SUPER REDS]

If there could be some renegotiating may meeting halfway great for the team

[Jordan Tansley]

I'm really suprised by the reaction regarding Orr, he is an average Rb nothing more nothing less,

well... the guy is a top top bloke, who over the last few years has done loads for us, always good with the fans and never lets us down on the pitch. I'm suprised how quickly fans change there minds over a guy who has always been a favourite amongst us, and who got so much praise last year!

If he could sort his touch

??? your taking the michael right??? please say yur having a laugh. possibly the best first touch and anticipation at the club bar trunds and nobbler

oh, and terjon. anything even remotely useful or insightful in that post?

[CiderSomerset]

That is the point you are missing mate! Other players have accepted what Bradley has refused but there are deals in place that are significantly greater than those.

Figures are -

Player A has a contract of 8k + bonuses over x years.

Brad asked for a fair bit less than that over 2yrs and was told no.

Nibor, I totally respect you as a poster and you have been proved right many times, but this time you are miles off honestly!

I agree with you on this (same source I think..)

Bradders is not the villian on this, what he has asked for was not an unreasonable request, but he got told where to go..

[Rednready]

I think you will find it is the smaller amount that relates to Brad!!! Hence my defence of him.

The point several people have made on here about someone being on considerably more than others who are of the same stature is actually true, in fact it it that very reason that has bought this about!

No I think he was offered a contract GJ is not lying about that, but I think the contract offered is not on a par with others of a similar stature within the squad.

Who is on a similar stature to Orr. Certainly not Carey, or McAllister, the senior players. McCombe is our best high ball player who will put his head in anywhere, Fontaine a far better allround footballer especially on the ground. Wilson has better footballing skills and I would sooner give James Wilson a chance than give into an average players grab for extra money.

Keogh would not take his new contract and left. Orr is no better than Keogh, so the bar has been set. He stays with our club or moves on for better money.

[Snufflelufagus]

BH you are barking up the correct tree. What he actually asked for is a long way short of what some are on, and they are not strikers.

Bear in mind Brad has twins on the way and is looking for a sembalance of security and not riches, IS settled here, his parents are season ticket holders that they pay for themselves.

Don't all players get two free season tickets a season? i wonder who he gives the other two to? Maybe Desmond?

[Bris Red]

oh, and terjon. anything even remotely useful or insightful in that post?

The guys touch is terrible I'm not the first to say this either. You say he has done loads for us? What do you mean by this, he is payed to be a solid RB and to be fair to him he has been a good player over the last few years. He wants more money like all money grabbing footbalers, why should we give him more, hes nothing special and why does he justify more money than other players at the club?

Secondly his distrbution is terrible, he plays the long ball far to often and to be quite frank he wont be missed, there are plenty of players like Orr out there.

[William Stand]

I cant imagine Brad bad mouthing the club ever. He loves City like a fan, and always will.

I can't buy that at all. He loves Everton like a fan, cos he is a fan. Orr like most scousers is a pretty emotional bloke, but I have no doubt that should he join Cardiff in Jan, within a few months he'll "love them like a fan" too. He's a professional & if he isn't happy with what's on offer here, he is perfectly entitled to look elsewhere.

People talk about Johnson having favourite players, it's pretty clear to me that Orr has been one of those - so it seems incredulous that he'd be offered a poor contract. However it often happens that an employee & employer disagree about the employees "worth" - footballs no different in that respect.

It seems odd that so many people seem to "know" the precise details of the contract negotiatons - at best they'll have heard one side of a story that will have been distorted by chinese whispers.

For the record I like Orr a lot, I hope he stays & think as a defender he is streets ahead of Brian Wilson & Jamie McAllister........ but to suggest he loves City like a fan, is really an insult to fans.

[William Stand]

Don't let Bradley hear you say that.

Is he a red then ??

[dazza247]

Wasn't there an article on the official site about Orr going to watch Liverpool in the Champions League final? I may be mistaken but pretty sure it was about him, so in that case he's definitely a Liverpool fan.

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,1...1021807,00.html

You've gotta love google!!!

Maybe Orr is holding out for a dream move to his boyhood club.?!

[Gerry Gows perm]

The only money i would give him is his taxi fare out of here!

[Jordan Tansley]

The guys touch is terrible I'm not the first to say this either.

You say he has done loads for us? What do you mean by this, he is payed to be a solid RB and to be fair to him he has been a good player over the last few years. He wants more money like all money grabbing footbalers, why should we give him more, hes nothing special and why does he justify more money than other players at the club?

well, firstly how do you know he has asked for so much more than anyone else? or is this another example of you taking speculation as fact ? you have as little idea about the situation as the rest of us.

secondly, you said it yourself, he has been a good player for us these last two season's, he has scored a decent amount of goals from full back, he has always defended well, and wore his heart on his sleeve for this club, he epitomises what i want from a footballer, and i would pay him twice as much as the moaning disinterested mccindoe! he is still on his league 1 contract i would guess, (with the 20% rise i think it is) but why should he not want as much as mccalister an mccombe? he is better than them!

but if you want to forget all the effort he has put into this club since his troubled time then so be it, i personally adore bradley orr, as a person and as a footballer. he is a breath of fresh air to football and the fact he wants to provide for his family shouldnt be held against him, he only has about 10 years left in his career, its logical he should try earn as much as he feel's he deserves in that time so he can keep his family stable for the rest of his life.

Secondly his distrbution is terrible, he plays the long ball far to often and to be quite frank he wont be missed, there are plenty of players like Orr out there.

apart from carey, that sounds like our entire defence, but you don't have something against them, because they already recieve what they deserve in pay.