The Usual.

[gaz897]

I think LJ had one of his better games last night, and he was still totally shocking!! Shirking so many tackles it was unbeliveable. Next to Elliot and Skuse he looked out of his depth, its no wonder Elliot was running on empty by 70 mins and god only knows why Skuse was taken off who was having one of his best games. I'm totally at my wits end at how he sustains his place in the team. To top it off he gets booked for whingeing to the ref at the end of the half. He does do the odd good play, but for every one of those he messes up five times with shocking passes across the back four. To top it all off for the last half hour he was basically playing on the wing and up front. He's not a goal scorer as can hardly pput any power into a shot. He can't head a ball and nor does he have the pace to be a winger.

rant over, sorry LJ lovers.

[windmillhillred]

I think LJ had one of his better games last night, and he was still totally shocking!! Shirking so many tackles it was unbeliveable. Next to Elliot and Skuse he looked out of his depth, its no wonder Elliot was running on empty by 70 mins and god only knows why Skuse was taken off who was having one of his best games. I'm totally at my wits end at how he sustains his place in the team. To top it off he gets booked for whingeing to the ref at the end of the half. He does do the odd good play, but for every one of those he messes up five times with shocking passes across the back four. To top it all off for the last half hour he was basically playing on the wing and up front. He's not a goal scorer as can hardly pput any power into a shot. He can't head a ball and nor does he have the pace to be a winger.

rant over, sorry LJ lovers.

You're right about the booking, totally unprofessional.

But shirking tackles? Not last night. Made at least three very important, very decent tackles. Also delivered some very decent dead-balls. Thought he was the weakest player in a very strong midfield last night if I'm honest, but he had a good game, as he generally does.

[billybob]

Whay was Johnson not taken off instead of Skuse?

Why was Carle released?

Who's your Daddy?

[gaz897]

Totally. He did make a couple of good tackles last night although I can remember 5 that he bottled that were 50-50. Nothing worse than a someone who is scared in the tackle because when you go in like a fanny you'll usually come out injured.

[wookey]

Lee J is a wholehearted player just out of his depth in the Championship. The tragedy of this Father/Son saga, and I hope I am wrong. is that Gary will not buy the creative midfielder we so desperately need in the January window.

[red army]

The whole team made me proud well done lads

[SJC]

For ****s sake.

In my honest opinion Elliot played very well last night, Skuse produced a solid performance and Johnson played well. Why oh why you choose to highlight Johnson, when none of our side played poorly, and especially considering Johnson made more than one crucial, back tracking tackle is entirely beyond me.

The sooner people stop scrambling to find a scape-goat every time we lose the better. Not that this will happen of course. We've just more than competed with a Premier League team featuring England Internationals, our 3 man midfield dominated possession - albeit Pompey did sit incredibly deep, and yet people still feel the urge to come on and single out a hugely important cog in our success over recent years.

Absolute ###### joke.

[gaz897]

my opinion I'm affraid. Johnson backtracks? From what I could see it was marv and skuse busting a gut to get back and its johnson just trotting back.

[cheese]

For ****s sake.

In my honest opinion Elliot played very well last night, Skuse produced a solid performance and Johnson played well. Why oh why you choose to highlight Johnson, when none of our side played poorly, and especially considering Johnson made more than one crucial, back tracking tackle is entirely beyond me.

The sooner people stop scrambling to find a scape-goat every time we lose the better. Not that this will happen of course. We've just more than competed with a Premier League team featuring England Internationals, our 3 man midfield dominated possession - albeit Pompey did sit incredibly deep, and yet people still feel the urge to come on and single out a hugely important cog in our success over recent years.

Absolute ###### joke.

Take a deep breath, count to 10 and ignore the blighters. You'll not change their blinkered and narrow views. Console yourself in the fact that they talk horse manure and read a thread that'll not increase your blood pressure. It works for me.

[Riaz]

For ****s sake.

In my honest opinion Elliot played very well last night, Skuse produced a solid performance and Johnson played well. Why oh why you choose to highlight Johnson, when none of our side played poorly, and especially considering Johnson made more than one crucial, back tracking tackle is entirely beyond me.

The sooner people stop scrambling to find a scape-goat every time we lose the better. Not that this will happen of course. We've just more than competed with a Premier League team featuring England Internationals, our 3 man midfield dominated possession - albeit Pompey did sit incredibly deep, and yet people still feel the urge to come on and single out a hugely important cog in our success over recent years.

Absolute ###### joke.

It does not matter how Johnson played - city lost - so its johnson's fault!!

[billybob]

That's it. Toe the party line. Say nowt.

Johnson is not good enough.

Maynard can't trap a bag of cement and makes Baz Savage's first touch look good.

Get real.

[SJC]

Well perhaps thats because its their respective roles within the side.

Elliot is all action we know that, as said I felt he played very well last night. But Johnson did do defensive duties, no doubt less than Elliot and Skuse but, as some don't seem to comprehend, players have different roles in a side. Last night, as pretty much always, Elliot was box to box, Skuse marshalled infront of the back four and Johnson maintained possession.

Yes of course it is a midfielders job to put in tackles, and Johnson did this last night (!), but criticising him for not getting stuck in when compared to Elliot is like laying into Maynard because he doesnt hold the ball up and link play as well as John.

[Strictly Obi]

They won't ever admit it , but some on here really hate LJ! It's really sad because we should be praising the whole team for the performance they put in.

It's sad that some should have so much hate for one player.....i guess it says something about the sort of people they are.......

Well done to ALL the team for last night......you did us proud!

[sodbury red]

Totally. He did make a couple of good tackles last night although I can remember 5 that he bottled that were 50-50. Nothing worse than a someone who is scared in the tackle because when you go in like a fanny you'll usually come out injured.

no worse than we conceded the goal, ivan sproule what a tart i know he is a winger but being a grown up he should be making the tackles he should have blocked crouchs effort.

i don't understand why he's still with us he ******* rubbish ok he's fast but end product 99.5% of the time is ****.

so these are the players u should be getting at.

i cam rememeber him a coventry when we one, last season when he came on we must had about seven or eight offsides he was all of them.

He's rubbish loan him or sell him

I think LJ had a good game which is something new to me as i do slate him often.

[Webzcas]

For ****s sake.

In my honest opinion Elliot played very well last night, Skuse produced a solid performance and Johnson played well. Why oh why you choose to highlight Johnson, when none of our side played poorly, and especially considering Johnson made more than one crucial, back tracking tackle is entirely beyond me.

The sooner people stop scrambling to find a scape-goat every time we lose the better. Not that this will happen of course. We've just more than competed with a Premier League team featuring England Internationals, our 3 man midfield dominated possession - albeit Pompey did sit incredibly deep, and yet people still feel the urge to come on and single out a hugely important cog in our success over recent years.

Absolute ###### joke.

Agreed. This forum is so negative sometimes. LJ was class last night as was the rest of the team. Shame some of our fans can not be the same hence the continual LJ bashing threads on here. It is making OTIB a ####### joke to be honest.

I just really hope our players don't read the drivel posted on here.

[Red_Mat]

Take a deep breath, count to 10 and ignore the blighters. You'll not change their blinkered and narrow views. Console yourself in the fact that they talk horse manure and read a thread that'll not increase your blood pressure. It works for me.

I would suggest that many LJ-lovers have blinkered and narrow views - they seem not to be able to appreciate his weaknesses and deficiencies, and see anyone as being critical (that's all the guy was doing, just using his free choice to criticise something - something we all do daily) of LJ as being idiots and of having no idea about football.

Most people are fairly pragmatic on this matter, and views aren't that polarised. Many can see LJ's weaknesses, that he is now starting to be out of his depth and there is a need to strengthen in the middle of the park. Yes, he has played well in the past and served us well for a few years. However if we want to progress we either need better players, or players need to improve - and he's not doing that quickly enough.

Quite simply, we are not creating enough chances as a team and as he is supposedly our most creative midfielder he has to take some responsibility for that.

Not all people will blindly say, 'well done lads, you were all brilliant!'. They realise we need to keep improving as well and recognise areas where we lack.

[Red Ferret]

Lee Johnson played very well I thought

Some people just can't wait for the guy to put a pass wrong.

[SJC]

I am certainly not a Lee Johnson 'lover.'

I watch a game of football and draw conclusions based on performance rather than pre-conceived beliefs or someones father might be.

The ironic thing with your post is that I openly say that Elliot and others play well. If however you were to ask those who openly and often criticise Johnson their opinion on Elliot, I would be amazed to hear or see through posts negative comments on Johnsons midfield partner.

This to me clearly illustrates, contrary to what you think, that it is infact the 'Lj bashers' who hold the narrow minded, short sighted view.

I have said and agree that we need competition for Johnsons place.

The fact is that the same people who loudly and frequently berate Johnson will be the very same people who get a semi every time 'Marv' goes in for a slide tackle.

[Riaz]

I would suggest that many LJ-lovers have blinkered and narrow views - they seem not to be able to appreciate his weaknesses and deficiencies, and see anyone as being critical (that's all the guy was doing, just using his free choice to criticise something - something we all do daily) of LJ as being idiots and of having no idea about football.

Not at all, I am aware of LJ's weaknesses - Not all LJ critics are as supid as the the posters on this thread. Some actually give him credit for when he plays well!!

[Nibor]

I would suggest that many LJ-lovers have blinkered and narrow views - they seem not to be able to appreciate his weaknesses and deficiencies, and see anyone as being critical (that's all the guy was doing, just using his free choice to criticise something - something we all do daily) of LJ as being idiots and of having no idea about football.

Most people are fairly pragmatic on this matter, and views aren't that polarised. Many can see LJ's weaknesses, that he is now starting to be out of his depth and there is a need to strengthen in the middle of the park. Yes, he has played well in the past and served us well for a few years. However if we want to progress we either need better players, or players need to improve - and he's not doing that quickly enough.

Quite simply, we are not creating enough chances as a team and as he is supposedly our most creative midfielder he has to take some responsibility for that.

Not all people will blindly say, 'well done lads, you were all brilliant!'. They realise we need to keep improving as well and recognise areas where we lack.

Agree, much common sense there.

LJ had a good game last night - possibly his best home performance of the season - and did well going forwards but he definitely bottled several 50/50s and that is a very big part of why the crowd rightly or wrongly has so little patience with him.

My observation is that most people who criticise LJ on this forum acknowledge his strengths but just don't think they're sufficient, very few people who relentlessly defend him acknowledge his weaknesses.

And the question I'd post to anybody who thinks we don't need a stronger creative player in the middle of the park is - how many good chances did we create from open play last night?

The ironic thing with your post is that I openly say that Elliot and others play well. If however you were to ask those who openly and often criticise Johnson their opinion on Elliot, I would be amazed to hear or see through posts negative comments on Johnsons midfield partner.

I've criticised LJ often recently because until the last couple of games he's been s**t. If you look back you'll see me criticising Elliott when he was s**t at the start of the season. You'll also see me praising any player that I think's played well regardless of who they are. I think most posters do the same to be honest.

[dargla]

I am certainly not a Lee Johnson 'lover.'

I watch a game of football and draw conclusions based on performance rather than pre-conceived beliefs or someones father might be.

The ironic thing with your post is that I openly say that Elliot and others play well. If however you were to ask those who openly and often criticise Johnson their opinion on Elliot, I would be amazed to hear or see through posts negative comments on Johnsons midfield partner.

This to me clearly illustrates, contrary to what you think, that it is infact the 'Lj bashers' who hold the narrow minded, short sighted view.

I have said and agree that we need competition for Johnsons place.

The fact is that the same people who loudly and frequently berate Johnson will be the very same people who get a semi every time 'Marv' goes in for a slide tackle.

LJ played well last night, except for the first 15 mins he was shocking, gave ball away, no forward balls and to many stray passes putting our defence under pressure. But after those 15 mins he had a good game.

[Red]

It does not matter how Johnson played - city lost - so its johnson's fault!!

Sadly your right, it was Johnsons fault, Gary Johnsons, the reason we lost.

Playing 4-3-3 was wrong! our left hand side was all over the place from the start.

Fontaine was getting dragged all over the place on the left hand side.

Portsmouth should and could have been 2 nil up by half time.

GJ trying to pull Maynard over to the left to cover midfield was a joke.

He should have started 4-4-2 IMO.

The manager put pressure on the players before kick off.

[SJC]

re Nibor;

Fair enough, clearly you don't fall into the category that I, unlike you, believe exists.

Personally id say we've only seen an upturn in Elliots performance recently, up until which he'd been a shadow of last season with a succession of distinctly average performances.

Whilst Johnson may have also not been on top form in this period too, although I would suggest he was contributing more than Elliot, these boards were awash with negative Lee Johnson posts which suggested he was not good enough, while Elliot enjoyed the luxury of simply being 'out of form', which resulted in minimal, if any, negative posts.

Do you agree with that or do you think there are infact posts which discuss Elliots poor performance, to the same extent and 'intensity' that there are for Johnson?

[Nibor]

re Nibor;

Fair enough, clearly you don't fall into the category that I, unlike you, believe exists.

Personally id say we've only seen an upturn in Elliots performance recently, up until which he'd been a shadow of last season with a succession of distinctly average performances.

Whilst Johnson may have also not been on top form in this period too, although I would suggest he was contributing more than Elliot, these boards were awash with negative Lee Johnson posts which suggested he was not good enough, while Elliot enjoyed the luxury of simply being 'out of form', which resulted in minimal, if any, negative posts.

Do you agree with that or do you think there are infact posts which discuss Elliots poor performance, to the same extent and 'intensity' that there are for Johnson?

I think LJ gets a disproportionate amount of stick because city fans in general over value full blooded challenges. Just look at how Scott Brown, who had some serious flaws in his game, was thought of by some as a fantastic player. Elliott gets more tolerance for the same reason, and also probably because he was absolutely outstanding last season. With some of the sillier people the LJ stick manifests as "it's cos his dad is manager" which is unfair, and it's also probably exacerbated by frustration that a clearly talented player in Noble is seemingly not given an opportunity for reasons that mystify, and by the Carle transfer. I must admit I was taken aback that when LJ was injured Noble didn't get a crack at being the creative midfielder, and that we could pick 18 players without including him last night - why'd we bother giving him a new contract?

My view is that GJ just thinks LJ is a better player than I reckon he is, and my criticism of LJ is that if he's not going to tackle or defend (and by and large he does very little of either) then he needs to create chances and take good set pieces to make up for it - up until the last couple of games that hasn't been happening.

Elliott started the season poorly after being injured so I was expecting him to take a little while to get up to speed and I am pretty sure his knee hasn't been right until about December, I think GJ talked about it in an interview and mentioned that it's an ongoing problem they have to take care of. He seems back to his best now to me.

[SJC]

I agree on the whole. Especially regarding the issue of City fans loving a tough tackling player and the exclusion of Noble when Johnson was injured.

Johnson is a good player and, more importantly, a far better one than he is given credit for. It is the seemingly continual intolerance for him which really grates and leads me to the belief that he is victimised for reasons, on the whole, which are largely irrelevant of his on pitch performance.

Apologies for short reply, internet access through Mobile is what I'm currently restricted to.

[redfred]

I would suggest that many LJ-lovers have blinkered and narrow views - they seem not to be able to appreciate his weaknesses and deficiencies, and see anyone as being critical (that's all the guy was doing, just using his free choice to criticise something - something we all do daily) of LJ as being idiots and of having no idea about football.

Most people are fairly pragmatic on this matter, and views aren't that polarised. Many can see LJ's weaknesses, that he is now starting to be out of his depth and there is a need to strengthen in the middle of the park. Yes, he has played well in the past and served us well for a few years. However if we want to progress we either need better players, or players need to improve - and he's not doing that quickly enough.

Quite simply, we are not creating enough chances as a team and as he is supposedly our most creative midfielder he has to take some responsibility for that.

Not all people will blindly say, 'well done lads, you were all brilliant!'. They realise we need to keep improving as well and recognise areas where we lack.

I think all Lee Johnson 'fans' appreciate that he has deficiencies and weaknesses but the constant need to defend the most over analysed player in Bristol City history leads to a frustrated reaction and an ultra defensive response from some people. It seems to me now that unless he plays at 100% every week, makes every pass a telling one, creates numerous guilt edged chances for the strikers and spends the rest of the time putting in thunderous challenges in midfield that we inevitably see a thread slating him following the game.

I watched Skuse pull away from making two challenges last night and i barely heard a murmer from the crowd. Johnson did the same thing on one occassion (that i can remember) and he was berated by a number of people around me. That to me was all the proof i needed that it is bordering on a vendetta towards Lee Johnson from some people now and it's almost it's in vogue to give him sh!t every time he does something wrong. No other player gets that level of analysis on his general play.

The other problem Lee Johnson has is that he is somehow to blame for Gary Johnson not buying an attacking midfielder who will get us ten goals a season. I don't understand that one at all? Until such time that Gary Johnson brings in this type of player we should support what we have in front of us until this fabled player is brought in. Also the consideration that Gary Johnson won't bring in anyone to replace his son is complete and utter fantasy and shows a lack of respect to a man who has worked wonders at this club in the last three years (i'm not saying you've said that, but is another accusation thrown around frequently on this forum).

He is out there doing his best having good games and bad games the same as any other player in that team, but taking considerably more flak in the process. Fans can criticise him when he has a stinker by all means, but after every game is plain ridiculous.

[Strictly Obi]

I think LJ gets a disproportionate amount of stick because city fans in general over value full blooded challenges. Just look at how Scott Brown, who had some serious flaws in his game, was thought of by some as a fantastic player. Elliott gets more tolerance for the same reason, and also probably because he was absolutely outstanding last season. With some of the sillier people the LJ stick manifests as "it's cos his dad is manager" which is unfair, and it's also probably exacerbated by frustration that a clearly talented player in Noble is seemingly not given an opportunity for reasons that mystify, and by the Carle transfer. I must admit I was taken aback that when LJ was injured Noble didn't get a crack at being the creative midfielder, and that we could pick 18 players without including him last night - why'd we bother giving him a new contract?

My view is that GJ just thinks LJ is a better player than I reckon he is, and my criticism of LJ is that if he's not going to tackle or defend (and by and large he does very little of either) then he needs to create chances and take good set pieces to make up for it - up until the last couple of games that hasn't been happening.

Elliott started the season poorly after being injured so I was expecting him to take a little while to get up to speed and I am pretty sure his knee hasn't been right until about December, I think GJ talked about it in an interview and mentioned that it's an ongoing problem they have to take care of. He seems back to his best now to me.

Yes there are better creative midfield players out there. But 'Hello' there are better defenders, wingers, strikers etc etc - They all cost something caled 'Money!' We have tried to sign creative midfield players - Howard etc - but the smell of money was stronger at some of the bigger clubs. So untill a better creative midfield player agrees to sign for us with our average CC wages - it's a case of going with what we have. So have we a better player for that position within the club? - not in GJ's opinion and i don't mean to be disrespectful to you but i will go with him on this rather than you! This tedious argument will no doubt continue - but imo LJ is better than most midfield player we have had over the last 20 yrs....but prob not good enough to get us to the promised land. I just get bored of this 'witch-hunting'. ALL the team played well last night - we lost against a Premier League club - 0-2 flattered them imo. Its good that we (us fish) discuss and critiscise on this forum (small pond), but some go way over the top! ALL our players have flaws....if they didn't we would be in the Premier League by now!

:noexpression:

[Seend Red]

I thought it was the usual from the lad. Lot of passing the ball backwards with the odd suicide ball, getting caught out high up the pitch and then just trotting back as if it wasn't his responsibility to tackle back.

He was by far our weakest midfield player last night yet Skuse was the player pulled .

If Gary left tomorrow do you honestly think in a months time Lee would still be in the starting 11?

[gaz897]

LJ is poor, always has been and always will be. Doesn't have the physical attributes to compete well enough at this level and as for being our most creative midfielder?

What a load of c£$p. His passing is shocking. Even when he's trying to pas the ball back to the opposition keeper for sportsmanship it doesn't go where he is aiming for or doesn't have the power to reach.

The position he played last night would have been perfect for Noble, McIndoe or Gavin Williams or even my Dad. He would have put better challanges in than LJ and he's 60.

Total rubbish all the talk about the fans loving someone who can tackle more than someone who doesn't. The thing the fans like at the gate is passion and 100% commitment. He doesn't give it IMO. Watch him every game jogging back after we loose possesion while other bust a gut to get the ball back.

[gaz897]

I thought it was the usual from the lad. Lot of passing the ball backwards with the odd suicide ball, getting caught out high up the pitch and then just trotting back as if it wasn't his responsibility to tackle back.

He was by far our weakest midfield player last night yet Skuse was the player pulled .

If Gary left tomorrow do you honestly think in a months time Lee would still be in the starting 11?

Someone was watching the same game as me then.