The Usual.

[SJC]

I'm sure you are now just fishing but I cant resist.

Johnson has never played better than Elliot or Skuse when they've featured is one of the more ridiculous things ive seen on this thread, and there are many candidates.

You seem to forget that Elliot, perhaps through recovering from injury has been a relative passenger for the large majority of this season. He was very good Wed night and played better than Johnson on the whole, but to suggest Johnson has never contributed more in all the times he has played alongside him (or Skuse) continues to demonstrate how certain people refuse to acknowledge that Johnson is a good player with many positive attributes in comparison to their personal darling, Marvin Elliot.

Your ignorance only illustrates the assertion regarding people having other agendas, so in affect please continue to prove me right.

[gaz897]

All I'm saying is what I truly believe. I'm not a gas head and nor am I on a wind up. I just fail to see what he brings to the team. Watching Southend v Chelsea last night, made me think I'drather have either of the 2 guys they had in the centre than LJ. They were fitter, faster, could head and could play a bit. I know obviously players raise there game but at city's level we need athletes in midfield not 5 ft bu&&er alls trotting about, not tracking back, playing suicide passes across the back four, shirking tackles and then putting in the odd couple of decent plays a game when the majority of what he does loosses us possession.

[red man dan]

This is now just becoming rediculous. Skuse played well, Elliot played well and SO did LJ. People on here have such shallow pride that they cannot admit to a player they have critisised (consistently) having a good game. If you don't like a player, fine, but please find some moral fibre and give credit where credit is due. Admiting to him having a good game here and there does not detract from your opinion on his general contribution or your overall view of him, however in not doing so you simply discredit your 'overall' opinion and show it to be worthless, by showing your inability to 'see' the positives when they are clearly on display, even for those who on the whole are not LJ fans. And don't hide behind the 'I'm only giving my opinion banner' as it doesnt wash when its so completely blinkered.

'A view that is NOT BALANCED and cannot only see either positives or negatives and NOT the WHOLE issue, is NOT an opinion, it is a predjudice'

I'm happy for people to not like LJ's game, and thankfully many who don't rate him have the decency and footballing knowledge to accept when he does play well, thus proving that they can have a balanced view of him and his indivual performaces. Others I'm afraid show no signs of being able to judge him fairly because of their own pre-concieved views of his game.

[mcbcfc]

Our problem is a lack of creativity. Yes LJ is a part of that but so is the full backs and our wingers. Who was the last full back to make runs up the line and put in a decent ball regularly? Mickey Bell? (don't you dare say brad the bloke can barely cross a road let alone a ball) What about our wingers where's the movement? Balls into the corner and the winger chases onto it, remember players doing that? Ivan starts too deep so has to beat the man first, whereas he should be on his shoulder. McIndoe simply doesn't go past anyone.

Seeing this is a moan at Johnson thread (again) my only real problems are

His set piece delivery is poor (as is the whole teams)

He has a knack of slowing down the game which is great when we're winning but a bit more urgency when losing would be nice

And his lack of pace (which again is a problem all over the pitch, did you see the pace pompy broke for their goals we never do that because we simply can't) If someone gets past him he can't get back quick enough, which is the same problem as Noble has incedently.

I think Gary Johnson knows as he keeps telling us "we didn't do enough in the final third" Its not all LJ fault we don't score enough, other players need to step up and take responsibility.

And he had a decent game against pompy

[Seend Red]

This is now just becoming rediculous. Skuse played well, Elliot played well and SO did LJ. People on here have such shallow pride that they cannot admit to a player they have critisised (consistently) having a good game. If you don't like a player, fine, but please find some moral fibre and give credit where credit is due. Admiting to him having a good game here and there does not detract from your opinion on his general contribution or your overall view of him, however in not doing so you simply discredit your 'overall' opinion and show it to be worthless, by showing your inability to 'see' the positives when they are clearly on display, even for those who on the whole are not LJ fans. And don't hide behind the 'I'm only giving my opinion banner' as it doesnt wash when its so completely blinkered.

'A view that is NOT BALANCED and cannot only see either positives or negatives and NOT the WHOLE issue, is NOT an opinion, it is a predjudice'

I'm happy for people to not like LJ's game, and thankfully many who don't rate him have the decency and footballing knowledge to accept when he does play well, thus proving that they can have a balanced view of him and his indivual performaces. Others I'm afraid show no signs of being able to judge him fairly because of their own pre-concieved views of his game.

You're the problem. You have no tolerence and will not let others have a different opinion from yourself. If they do you decide to disregard thier opinion as they don't know what they're talking about! Unlike your good self, the self-proclaimed fountain of football knowledge

Lee Johnson was carried in that midfield on Tuesday. I know what I saw and I didn't like it much. Skuse and Elliott did all of his leg work, I wouldn't mind if Johnson was a this alledged play maker and created and scored goals and was a constant threat but the reality is he dose nothing particualy well.

Short passing sidewards and backwards seems to be his forte then he'll some times get brave and advance give it away and then jog back whilst Skuse and Elliott bust their arse trying to retrieve the situation. Also I'm sick of his crap corners, how many times does he just float the ball harmlessly in to the keepers arms, why won't he whip it in with some real malice and quality? also how can you have central midfield player who can't get up and down the pitch with pace and power, as soon as he behind the play he out the game as he just ain't quick enough to get back in.

I think many are being loyal and towing the Johnson line rather than being honest and speaking as they find.

[Riaz]

You're the problem. You have no tolerence and will not let others have a different opinion from yourself. If they do you decide to disregard thier opinion as they don't know what they're talking about! Unlike your good self, the self-proclaimed fountain of football knowledge

Lee Johnson was carried in that midfield on Tuesday. I know what I saw and I didn't like it much. Skuse and Elliott did all of his leg work, I wouldn't mind if Johnson was a this alledged play maker and created and scored goals and was a constant threat but the reality is he dose nothing particualy well.

Short passing sidewards and backwards seems to be his forte then he'll some times get brave and advance give it away and then jog back whilst Skuse and Elliott bust their arse trying to retrieve the situation. Also I'm sick of his crap corners, how many times does he just float the ball harmlessly in to the keepers arms, why won't he whip it in with some real malice and quality? also how can you have central midfield player who can't get up and down the pitch with pace and power, as soon as he behind the play he out the game as he just ain't quick enough to get back in.

I think many are being loyal and towing the Johnson line rather than being honest and speaking as they find.

The manager of the Premier League opposition singled out Lee Johnson along with Marvin Elliott as players he was impressed with.

[Guest wheres your caravan??]

You're the problem. You have no tolerence and will not let others have a different opinion from yourself. If they do you decide to disregard thier opinion as they don't know what they're talking about! Unlike your good self, the self-proclaimed fountain of football knowledge

Lee Johnson was carried in that midfield on Tuesday. I know what I saw and I didn't like it much. Skuse and Elliott did all of his leg work, I wouldn't mind if Johnson was a this alledged play maker and created and scored goals and was a constant threat but the reality is he dose nothing particualy well.

Short passing sidewards and backwards seems to be his forte then he'll some times get brave and advance give it away and then jog back whilst Skuse and Elliott bust their arse trying to retrieve the situation. Also I'm sick of his crap corners, how many times does he just float the ball harmlessly in to the keepers arms, why won't he whip it in with some real malice and quality? also how can you have central midfield player who can't get up and down the pitch with pace and power, as soon as he behind the play he out the game as he just ain't quick enough to get back in.

I think many are being loyal and towing the Johnson line rather than being honest and speaking as they find.

Very good post!

[William Stand]

You're the problem. You have no tolerence and will not let others have a different opinion from yourself. If they do you decide to disregard thier opinion as they don't know what they're talking about! Unlike your good self, the self-proclaimed fountain of football knowledge

Lee Johnson was carried in that midfield on Tuesday. I know what I saw and I didn't like it much. Skuse and Elliott did all of his leg work, I wouldn't mind if Johnson was a this alledged play maker and created and scored goals and was a constant threat but the reality is he dose nothing particualy well.

Short passing sidewards and backwards seems to be his forte then he'll some times get brave and advance give it away and then jog back whilst Skuse and Elliott bust their arse trying to retrieve the situation. Also I'm sick of his crap corners, how many times does he just float the ball harmlessly in to the keepers arms, why won't he whip it in with some real malice and quality? also how can you have central midfield player who can't get up and down the pitch with pace and power, as soon as he behind the play he out the game as he just ain't quick enough to get back in.

I think many are being loyal and towing the Johnson line rather than being honest and speaking as they find.

I think some people are so transfixed by their pre-set opinion they don't see what happens. I support LJ on here a lot but I actually thought he had a poor game & him, not Skuse should have been taken off. However, his corners throughout the game were pretty good & there was only 1 poor one into James arms right at the end.

[red man dan]

Seend Red,

I am not sure you have read my post?? Or maybe, as with your view of LJ's game on tuesday, you may well have chosen to 'see' the parts that support you and 'miss' the parts that do not. I have clearly stated that i am happy to accept opinion, i enjoy a reasoned debate with people able to see the whole picture regarding far more important things than the importance of a football players ability, and as for tolerence towards difference, i am not even going to begin to detail to you how far wrong you have judged me.

It is clear that many on here have a 'predjudiced' view of LJ that blurs thier ability to form an unbiased opinion of anything he does. There are countless examples of this, where many posters consistenlty single him out for unjust negative apraisal whilst leaving other more 'popular' players,such as elliot, to simply go unmentioned when they have clearly underperformed.Some find it impossible to give him any credit ever. Every ball he misplaces is remembered, every tackle he doesnt go in for is mentioned, every backward pass is scrutinised, it goes on and on and it is simply astonishing. At the same time, other players are doing the same, of course they are, they are footballers, the best of them make mistakes. But the difference is, a thread doesnt appear for them suggesting the 'alternative motives' for why they are in the team. Elliot for example has performed at a far lower level, untill recently than he did last season, but has escaped the wrath.

In my mind a 'predjudiced' view is not worth the paper(metaphorical term) it is written on, and as i have said i don't believe such a view to be an opinion, and therefore yes, i will disregard it.

Riaz,

Clearly a former england international and premier league manager has no idea what he is talking about, maybe he doesnt know he's the managers son?...

[rednotblue]

I watched the game on TV and thought LJ had a very good game. Not fantastic mind you but very good and certainly deserved his place in lasting the 90 minutes.

He nearly scored with the header which if I'm being picky he should have hit the target with. I don't think he had any other shots on goal. Is that good enough from a central midfielder??

I've no problem with him not tracking back, if you're playing 3 in the centre then one can always float about. However LJ didn't float enough for me. He should be here and there in the final third making himself available to make things happen, which I didn't think he did.

He doesn't seem to be able to beat a man to make some space or do something different.

His set pieces were excellent in the main I felt last night and he didn't waste too much ball either. However he didn't create much either. Having said that if we are relying on one player to create for us then something is very wrong.

The truth is though, LJ isn't physical enough to be making tackles all the time (he's teeny tiny after all) and does not score 5-10 goals a season. For that reason people look at him closely and expect him to be the creator of all things wonderful. Which I don't believe he is either. (Nibor I agree with what you said on page 2)

I do think though he tries to do too much at times, maybe an indication of how he realises the expectation or the fact he is under pressure, or maybe the fact he knows he can do better. Who knows?

The expectancy of him is enormous and yes Carle was a better player than him, but how many goals did he score? 1 if my grey cells are working properly. So to double our money on someone who hasn't lived up to the expectation is not unreasonable.

The Noble situation is more baffling, yes he is not as hard a worker as LJ but he has that X factor in that he can do something no one else can, yet he comes in and plays well (end of last season for example) and then disappears again. For the record GJ does not favour his son at all, I think people that claim that are just dumb.

It's a bit of a ramble but you get the idea, decent player but must do better.

P.S Can someone tell Sproule he's allowed to go inside the full back.

[bh red]

The manager of the Premier League opposition singled out Lee Johnson along with Marvin Elliott as players he was impressed with.

how can you "single" out 2 people? surely single is only one person?

[gaz897]

This is now just becoming rediculous. Skuse played well, Elliot played well and SO did LJ. People on here have such shallow pride that they cannot admit to a player they have critisised (consistently) having a good game. If you don't like a player, fine, but please find some moral fibre and give credit where credit is due. Admiting to him having a good game here and there does not detract from your opinion on his general contribution or your overall view of him, however in not doing so you simply discredit your 'overall' opinion and show it to be worthless, by showing your inability to 'see' the positives when they are clearly on display, even for those who on the whole are not LJ fans. And don't hide behind the 'I'm only giving my opinion banner' as it doesnt wash when its so completely blinkered.

'A view that is NOT BALANCED and cannot only see either positives or negatives and NOT the WHOLE issue, is NOT an opinion, it is a predjudice'

I'm happy for people to not like LJ's game, and thankfully many who don't rate him have the decency and footballing knowledge to accept when he does play well, thus proving that they can have a balanced view of him and his indivual performaces. Others I'm afraid show no signs of being able to judge him fairly because of their own pre-concieved views of his game.

Red Man,

Please read the first line of my initial post!? ''Johnson had one of his best games'' I said. But IMO was still crap. So I can realise when he has a good game, by yours and his standards. Frankly by my standards as a fan of 25 years (sorry don't mean it to sound like a i've been a city fan for this long etc..) and in comparisson with other city players I always think he always has a poor game.

[Riaz]

how can you "single" out 2 people? surely single is only one person?

most of your posts are BS - at least you get the jist of mine!

[gaz897]

The manager of the Premier League opposition singled out Lee Johnson along with Marvin Elliott as players he was impressed with.

Thats just a woefull reply. I wouldn't even put Tony Adams in the same league as GJ as far as managers go. Adams was lucky and fell into a fairly decent job. He'll be sacked before the end of the year and his team probably relegated. GJ has been at city for 3 and a half years now. I hardly see Adams and Pompey staying together thatv long. So your point is?

[BCFC_Dan]

Thats just a woefull reply. I wouldn't even put Tony Adams in the same league as GJ as far as managers go. Adams was lucky and fell into a fairly decent job. He'll be sacked before the end of the year and his team probably relegated. GJ has been at city for 3 and a half years now. I hardly see Adams and Pompey staying together thatv long. So your point is?

I'd say Gary Johnson is probably quite impressed with them too, so that's at least two managers who rate Lee Johnson.

[gaz897]

I wonder if Tony Adams will put in a bid for him then? Do you honestly belive he was that impressed?

[Riaz]

Thats just a woefull reply. I wouldn't even put Tony Adams in the same league as GJ as far as managers go. Adams was lucky and fell into a fairly decent job. He'll be sacked before the end of the year and his team probably relegated. GJ has been at city for 3 and a half years now. I hardly see Adams and Pompey staying together thatv long. So your point is?

There are big doubts on his managerial ability, no question.

But this is a person who has played with and against world class players and as manager of portsmouth will see world class players week in week out, for and against his side.

I think he's slightly more qualified than you to judge whether LJ is a good player or not.

[4eveREDDy]

I wonder if Tony Adams will put in a bid for him then? Do you honestly belive he was that impressed?

Forget TA, has anybody ever put a bid in for him

[gaz897]

There are big doubts on his managerial ability, no question.

But this is a person who has played with and against world class players and as manager of portsmouth will see world class players week in week out, for and against his side.

I think he's slightly more qualified than you to judge whether LJ is a good player or not.

I disagree. Ivery much doubt Adams has seen him play more than twice. I've had to put up with it for 3 years. I think I have the better judgemant!

[edson]

I disagree. Ivery much doubt Adams has seen him play more than twice. I've had to put up with it for 3 years. I think I have the better judgemant!

And Gary Johnson has seen him play a great deal more than that, so by your own criteria, he has the better judgement.

He also has a CV to fall back on when giving his.

[BCFC_Dan]

I wonder if Tony Adams will put in a bid for him then? Do you honestly belive he was that impressed?

I don't care. If Tony Adams wants him Tony Adams can pay Gary and Steve's valuation of him, whatever that means. All I care about is that Gary Johnson rates him and that Gary Johnson has brought (relative) success to my football club.

[gaz897]

And Gary Johnson has seen him play a great deal more than that, so by your own criteria, he has the better judgement.

He also has a CV to fall back on when giving his.

and a birth certificate!

[Guest wheres your caravan??]

and a birth certificate!

[bh red]

I wonder if Tony Adams will put in a bid for him then? Do you honestly belive he was that impressed?

don't be daft.......there is being polite after a game, then there is putting your managerial career in jeopardy.

gary has be willing to take the risk, whether it blows up in his face remains to be seen.

[red man dan]

Frankly by my standards as a fan of 25 years (sorry don't mean it to sound like a i've been a city fan for this long etc..) and in comparisson with other city players I always think he always has a poor game.

So let me just get this straight, you are saying that in your mind LJ ALWAYS has a poor game? you think he has NEVER played well for BCFC?

If this is the case then there is no point is discussion or debate of any kind. For someone to think that LJ plays poorly in EVERY game he plays, ALWAYS, is quite simply a bit shocking. But this sums up in many ways the inability of many to make a reasoned judgement on an individuals game by game performance and comment on that single game without allowing their pre-concieved judgements to effect their view on that particular game. It is clear that some people cannot see past thier biases.

[edson]

So let me just get this straight, you are saying that in your mind LJ ALWAYS has a poor game? you think he has NEVER played well for BCFC?

If this is the case then there is no point is discussion or debate of any kind. For someone to think that LJ plays poorly in EVERY game he plays, ALWAYS, is quite simply a bit shocking. But this sums up in many ways the inability of many to make a reasoned judgement on an individuals game by game performance and comment on that single game without allowing their pre-concieved judgements to effect their view on that particular game. It is clear that some people cannot see past thier biases.

The birth certificate comment confirmed that, if it needed confirming.

[red man dan]

The birth certificate comment confirmed that, if it needed confirming.

Exactly, an other perfect example of the 'predjudice' that is placed before LJ, i'm thankfull to both Gaz for that comment, and to 'wheres your caravan' for his 2nd one liner of this thread, for in doing so they have gone along way to prove my point. Thankyou to the pair of you, your evidence speaks volumes.

[Guest wheres your caravan??]

Exactly, an other perfect example of the 'predjudice' that is placed before LJ, i'm thankfull to both Gaz for that comment, and to 'wheres your caravan' for his 2nd one liner of this thread, for in doing so they have gone along way to prove my point. Thankyou to the pair of you, your evidence speaks volumes.

Prejudice?? Haha!!!!

No just the truth which you seem unable to see!

LJ performs well in about 1 in 10 games.

LJ played to the best of his ability against Portsmouth, which is probably the best i have seen him play. But, he was still out performed by his other midfielders in Sproule, Elliot and skuse! He is just not up to it!!!!

[bh red]

LJ played to the best of his ability against Portsmouth, which is probably the best i have seen him play. But, he was still out performed by his other midfielders in Sproule, Elliot and skuse! He is just not up to it!!!!

don't know about the rest, I'd agree with that bit.

when he is good, he can be good, but it's about consistency and he just can't do it on a regular basis week in, week out.

I don't get why people drag prejudice etc into it, many just look at it from the simple view point that him and Stern John are the weak links in the team, neither affect the game positively anywhere near enough.

[windmillhillred]

and a birth certificate!

cheap.