Strictly Obi Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Maybe, but I was responding to the point that it's money stopping us signing a creative midfield player. It isn't, SL's investment means we can compete with most teams at this level on wages. We had an £8.5m wage bill last season, there's enough scope in that to sign a player in that mould. Exactly! We can compete with most.....but not ALL teams at this level on wages. So if we can agree quality creative midfielders are hard to find then it begs the question........when one does come allong we are allways going to be 5th or 6th in line for his signing. Lets not forget that allthough creativity is of course central midfields responsibility - it can also come from other parts of the field - i have listed below a few - Fullback - BO - good defender but poor crossing into the box, JM - doesn't get forward enough Centre Back - McCombe only ever lumps the ball forward Wingers - Sproule - plent of pace, no end product (allthough improved of late). MM rarely beats the fullback. YET......we polarise all our creativity misgivings around one player.......LJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lager loud Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well let me start by saying i'm prob 1 of LJ's biggest critics i do feel he struggles at this level, and we should be looking to strenghen that position without fail!! However to say he was shocking last night is harsh, VERY harsh, yes he did all the usual things he does not tackle etc etc etc and for me was def the weak link in the 3 and imo should of been the 1 replaced not CS, but as an individal performance last night it was the best i have seen from lj all season, so i think all of us including me need to say "well done lee" This to me sums up the problem, and sums up why LJ creates the comment he does on here. When I saw our (strange) midfield lineup, I said to the the guy I was with, "Now watch: Cole Skuse will have a better game than Johnson, but if only one of them plays on Saturday, it will be Johnson". So far I think I'm half-right. I am a big fan of Skuse, so I may spot more of what he does well than others, but I thought he was our one of our best 2 or 3 players while he was on the pitch. And, more importantly, a lot of the good things he was doing were the things that LJ does - being available to pick the ball up from the defence and keeping it moving - not just the defensive bits. And he tried a good few "killer" passes forward. They didn't quite come off against a good defence, but he was trying to make things happen. I thought LJ had a good game last night, in a very good team performance. But I thought he was the weakest of our starting midfield 4, and the obvious candidate to go off if the manager wanted to bring McIndoe on. This is not the first time I've seen him play OK but thought others were better. And that's why some of us get frustrated by the LJ "situation". We can see the things he brings to the team - keeping the ball is important - but can't see that his influence on the game is so strong that he is untouchable - one of the first names on the team sheet and almost never subbed. A lot of the problems we've had at times this season have come from a weak midfield. I personally believe that this stems partly from the bits that LJ doesn't do: tackling, closing down, tracking back enough. As long as the team is doing well none of that matters and we've improved enormously in the last few games. But the next time it goes wrong, what will happen? Until Gary Johnson shows that he will drop LJ when his form dips and the team struggles, some of us will continue to feel that LJ gets better treatment than his performances warrant, and the inevitable groans at the ground and endless forum threads will ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 YET......we polarise all our creativity misgivings around one player.......LJ! Yes, you've certainly got some points there I agree with on other player's weaknesses and I'd never pretend it's the only area to improve. I think LJ bears the most responsibility for creativity from because he doesn't really do anything other than make play. He doesn't defend or score or win the ball so he needs to do the creative thing really well and so far despite taking almost all the set pieces he's got 2 assists. I see that as the role in the team where improvement could make the biggest impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I thought LJ did alright last night. Until we can locate / afford a truly inspirational, creative CM then LJ is the best person to partner Marv in the middle. If the Noble fan club are about to pounce - forget it - if LJ affects play for 70-75 mins a game, Noble can manage about 10-15 max. Id love to see Williams given ago in the middle!He can tackle, head and can be creative as well as having a good shot on him!! :noexpression: When we baught him Ipswich fans said he was potentially one of the best centre midfielders in the league if we can keep him fit(which he must be as hes on the bench)!! Yet we play him right wing and say hes not good enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 He doesn't defend or score or win the ball so he needs to do the creative thing really well and so far despite taking almost all the set pieces he's got 2 assists. I think he has more than that as he got 2 on Boxing Day. It may well be that he only has 1 or 2 more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I thought LJ did alright last night. Until we can locate / afford a truly inspirational, creative CM then LJ is the best person to partner Marv in the middle. If the Noble fan club are about to pounce - forget it - if LJ affects play for 70-75 mins a game, Noble can manage about 10-15 max. .....and yet in those 10-15mins Noble would probably have either scored himself or laid on a goal for A N Other. Any fit, half decent footballer could do exactly what LJ does, yet Noble could do that and some. In my opinion LJ is extremely fortunate to be plying his trade at such a high standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreyred Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 To all the LJ knockers, Just for a change, lets try a little logic............ He holds a key place in the team. In the time he has been in the team we have gained a promotion after years of trying. Got our highest leauge position since Alan DICKS, and are currenlty making ourselves an estabilished Championship team, something we would have sold our grannies for 2 years ago. So he must be doing something right on the field. The other allegation is that he is only in the team because his father is the manager. So, if we assume this is the case, what we are saying is that the whole of the coaching staff at the club are a party to this, or are so afraid of GJ they are scared to say anything. We are also saying the chairman is not aware of what is happening, or is also party to the above. This might happen in a village under 11 leauge, but the second tier of the professional game ??? Would anyone applying any form of thought to the above, really beleive any of the above is likley. Also, is it not quite likley that the rest of the midfield players at the club would be queing up to hand in transfer requests because they know they are not going to get a game, no matter how well they play. I know, in that position, i would be looking for another club. My last point i beleive is the most telling... have any of our ex players, those who GJ has moved on, ever complained that LJ is not good enough etc. If is was the case is this not the most likley way this would come into the public domain........... which it has not. So what seems most likley then, LJ is worth his place in the team, or he's just there becuase of who is dad is. Like i said above this is not some under 11 side ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windmillhillred Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Presumably this is what you were doing as opposed to actually watching the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windmillhillred Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 .....and yet in those 10-15mins Noble would probably have either scored himself or laid on a goal for A N Other. Probably? what are you basing that on because it's complete conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lee Johnson wasn't too bad last night. I mean he got in the box a few times so surely he was a bit more attack minded than usual... But I have to say that Sproule,Elliot and Skuse were for the most part outstanding against tough opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingswood red Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think he has more than that as he got 2 on Boxing Day. It may well be that he only has 1 or 2 more though. According to the club stats he actually has 2 assists, that's one more than Noble, who has 1, but I don't believe he has played quite as many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Johnson's reverse pass was a good chance from open play. Marv's header was from a set piece. The rest were half chances apart from the one that resulted in the pen. That's two good goalscoring chances in one game, and that was a good performance from us. There have been far more games this season when we've created less. I'd add that Portsmouth hit the post twice, brought a very good save from Basso and Crouch missed two decent chances when clean through. Not complaining about that, they are Prem, but they had more good chances despite us having more of the play. Sorry Nibor but you are wrong, Marvs header was from a fontaine cross which was not a set piece. The original corner was cleared then Fonts crossed. This is not classed as a set piece attempt. Not that i am splitting hairs or anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big red lee Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think LJ had one of his better games last night, and he was still totally shocking!! Shirking so many tackles it was unbeliveable. Next to Elliot and Skuse he looked out of his depth, its no wonder Elliot was running on empty by 70 mins and god only knows why Skuse was taken off who was having one of his best games. I'm totally at my wits end at how he sustains his place in the team. To top it off he gets booked for whingeing to the ref at the end of the half. He does do the odd good play, but for every one of those he messes up five times with shocking passes across the back four. To top it all off for the last half hour he was basically playing on the wing and up front. He's not a goal scorer as can hardly pput any power into a shot. He can't head a ball and nor does he have the pace to be a winger. rant over, sorry LJ lovers. could not of said it better my self shirking tackles all over the place quite clear he is not a ccc player try leauge one johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 could not of said it better my self shirking tackles all over the place quite clear he is not a ccc player try leauge one johnson How many shirked tackles did you count then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big red lee Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 How many shirked tackles did you count then? well if your on about how many tackels he has shirked so far this season i realy couldent tell you but a rough guess about 80 i would say and last night i counted 4 takcles he pulled out of i realy cant see what you see in him cheese i understand you don't wangt to critisize your own player but he realy does not cut the mustard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 well if your on about how many tackels he has shirked so far this season i realy couldent tell you but a rough guess about 80 i would say and last night i counted 4 takcles he pulled out of i realy cant see what you see in him cheese i understand you don't wangt to critisize your own player but he realy does not cut the mustard I'm not against criticising anyone - none of our players are perfect and there will always be better players out there. They are all flawed, else they wouldn't be here. What I find galling is the level and type of criticism LJ receives. In the main it's completely and totally unwarranted. Last night, for example, he had a good game - not just my opinion but shared by many including those with no connection to BCFC. Some people acknowledge that - others refuse. I think those that refuse to acknowledge that fact are chasing an agenda that has nothing to do with his match performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4eveREDDy Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm not against criticising anyone - none of our players are perfect and there will always be better players out there. They are all flawed, else they wouldn't be here. What I find galling is the level and type of criticism LJ receives. In the main it's completely and totally unwarranted. Last night, for example, he had a good game - not just my opinion but shared by many including those with no connection to BCFC. Some people acknowledge that - others refuse. I think those that refuse to acknowledge that fact are chasing an agenda that has nothing to do with his match performance. So that was a good game was it, compared to what, previous performances, because if you base it on that it was a reasonable performance, not good, anyway even a blind squirrel picks up a nut every now and again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big red lee Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm not against criticising anyone - none of our players are perfect and there will always be better players out there. They are all flawed, else they wouldn't be here. What I find galling is the level and type of criticism LJ receives. In the main it's completely and totally unwarranted. Last night, for example, he had a good game - not just my opinion but shared by many including those with no connection to BCFC. Some people acknowledge that - others refuse. I think those that refuse to acknowledge that fact are chasing an agenda that has nothing to do with his match performance. I'm happy to say that johnson had one of his best games last night but i think one of his best performance are about on the same par as marvs performance when hes had a bad game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So that was a good game was it, compared to what, previous performances, because if you base it on that it was a reasonable performance, not good, anyway even a blind squirrel picks up a nut every now and again So, compared to previous performances you consider it reasonable - which must mean that you consider that he normally plays better? Interesting - thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 14, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm not against criticising anyone - none of our players are perfect and there will always be better players out there. They are all flawed, else they wouldn't be here. What I find galling is the level and type of criticism LJ receives. In the main it's completely and totally unwarranted. Last night, for example, he had a good game - not just my opinion but shared by many including those with no connection to BCFC. Some people acknowledge that - others refuse. I think those that refuse to acknowledge that fact are chasing an agenda that has nothing to do with his match performance. Those who continue to label performances that neutrals & "normally critical fans" describe as varying degrees of "good" just show themselves up to be prejudiced against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm happy to say that johnson had one of his best games last night but i think one of his best performance are about on the same par as marvs performance when hes had a bad game And you are entitled to believe that - but your original response was agreeing with a post that said he was shocking. Glad you changed your mind, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Sorry Nibor but you are wrong, Marvs header was from a fontaine cross which was not a set piece. The original corner was cleared then Fonts crossed. This is not classed as a set piece attempt. Not that i am splitting hairs or anything.... Maynard cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 According to the club stats he actually has 2 assists, Those stats are wrong. That is the point I was making... I was at Watford and saw him set up Elliott and Adebola and I know he had at least one other before then (EDIT: assist for Gavin Williams at Charlton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't believe it was. Post #53. I think LJ had one of his better games last night, and he was still totally shocking!! Big Red Lee replied could not of said it better my self shirking tackles all over the place quite clear he is not a ccc player try leauge one johnson Have I read it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Group hug everyone! :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 14, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Post #53. Big Red Lee replied Have I read it wrong? Sorry, I was having a brain disconnect moment. I read it as you saying I'd said Lee was shocking and had changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windmillhillred Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 well if your on about how many tackels he has shirked so far this season i realy couldent tell you but a rough guess about 80 i would say and last night i counted 4 takcles he pulled out of i realy cant see what you see in him cheese i understand you don't wangt to critisize your own player but he realy does not cut the mustard Just as an example, look at his tackle on Wilson in the box last night. Good tracking back, foot in when it mattered. He's not perfect, I didn't think he was the best midfielder last night, but he's so obviously not as s**t as you think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I find it strange that even the pro Johnson supporters say that he played well, but not as well as Marv or Skuse. When all 3 have played, he has never, never benn been better than the other two. So when we play two central midfielders why is Skuse not picked ahead of him? Back to the Pompey game. Noble might not be fit, which I think is crap anyway but if ever someone should have made way it should have been LJ for Noble. then maybe chances like that ''header'' might have even been on target. LJ is being carried and is the main reason we haven't made enough chances this season. He also doesn't score enough goals. Poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I find it strange that even the pro Johnson supporters say that he played well, but not as well as Marv or Skuse. When all 3 have played, he has never, never benn been better than the other two. So when we play two central midfielders why is Skuse not picked ahead of him? Back to the Pompey game. Noble might not be fit, which I think is crap anyway but if ever someone should have made way it should have been LJ for Noble. then maybe chances like that ''header'' might have even been on target. LJ is being carried and is the main reason we haven't made enough chances this season. He also doesn't score enough goals. Poor. Are you serious? Skuse and Marvin as our midfield?? We want to win football matches!! not draw nil nil all the time, because thats the best you could hope for. They played together recently and played well - we still could'nt win!! I just wish people were at Stoke away last season - first half was terrible!! I'll say it again - if we play 2 central midfielders, it should be Marv OR Skuse, not both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I find it strange that even the pro Johnson supporters say that he played well, but not as well as Marv or Skuse. When all 3 have played, he has never, never benn been better than the other two. So when we play two central midfielders why is Skuse not picked ahead of him? Back to the Pompey game. Noble might not be fit, which I think is crap anyway but if ever someone should have made way it should have been LJ for Noble. then maybe chances like that ''header'' might have even been on target. LJ is being carried and is the main reason we haven't made enough chances this season. He also doesn't score enough goals. Poor. Haven't seen anyone say that. I know I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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