red man dan Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Bill and Punnett, None of us are debating that it wasnt like you say back in the day, we are however saying that now it ISNT part of football for the vast majority and that is how it should stay and we should continue to squeeze it out of the game. Having not been a part of it back then, of course that means we don't 'understand' but we know it happened, and we don't want it happening again. I'm not going to judge those who were a part of it back then, if it was part of the deal then fair enough, but it isnt anymore and 99 per cent of football fans want it rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 ok. maybe I was wrong... bloody spheres! but seriously, it may have been part of the game when i was "a spakle in my daddy's eye" but it isn't now, violence has absolutely no relevence to football and i can in no way comprehend how someone can link them, and like it. the only thing the "thugs" have achieved is to restrict the freedoms of a real fan, and yes i do believe i am a better fan than the thugs(self rightious? yes!), because of the "louts" I cannot travel to and from matches freely, I cannot walk through a new town or city and experience the place. Instead i get forced to go into grounds an hour before kick off and am not allowed to leave for half an hour after the game, I am forced to get on uncomfortable coaches for anythign up to 7 hours if i choose to support my team. how can they feel any justification in there barbaric tendencies? i really cannot understand. like i said before. the sport of boxing needs to increase participation, the sport of football needs to get rid of the bad egg's, you do the maths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 like i said before. the sport of boxing needs to increase participation, the sport of football needs to get rid of the bad egg's, you do the maths To be honest mate i think you are doing the sport of boxing an injustice by suggesting that these cretins could succeed at it. Boxing is for the individual, how often do you see hooligans fighting in anything other than 'packs'? 'Courage' is much more easily aquired when in the company of others, being in the boxing ring does not offer that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 To be honest mate i think you are doing the sport of boxing an injustice by suggesting that these cretins could succeed at it. Boxing is for the individual, how often do you see hooligans fighting in anything other than 'packs'? 'Courage' is much more easily aquired when in the company of others, being in the boxing ring does not offer that luxury. did anyone see the two city lads beating seven shades of s### out of each other on the coach as we left the ground last night in brum they were going for it big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djc Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 ok. maybe I was wrong... bloody spheres! but seriously, it may have been part of the game when i was "a spakle in my daddy's eye" but it isn't now, violence has absolutely no relevence to football and i can in no way comprehend how someone can link them, and like it. the only thing the "thugs" have achieved is to restrict the freedoms of a real fan, and yes i do believe i am a better fan than the thugs(self rightious? yes!), because of the "louts" I cannot travel to and from matches freely, I cannot walk through a new town or city and experience the place. Instead i get forced to go into grounds an hour before kick off and am not allowed to leave for half an hour after the game, I am forced to get on uncomfortable coaches for anythign up to 7 hours if i choose to support my team. how can they feel any justification in there barbaric tendencies? i really cannot understand. like i said before. the sport of boxing needs to increase participation, the sport of football needs to get rid of the bad egg's, you do the maths what is your problem son you don't have to travel on coaches there are trains cars and even flying if you choose,football violence has always been and will always be attached to football because for every 18 year old like you there are lads who follow the culture and maybe if this upsets you its you that should be looking for a new sport to follow maybe snooker or tennis then you could visit all these new towns without fear no rivalry in these sports so you wouldnt have to worry about your precious fun being spoilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 what is your problem son you don't have to travel on coaches there are trains cars and even flying if you choose,football violence has always been and will always be attached to football because for every 18 year old like you there are lads who follow the culture and maybe if this upsets you its you that should be looking for a new sport to follow maybe snooker or tennis then you could visit all these new towns without fear no rivalry in these sports so you wouldnt have to worry about your precious fun being spoilt Absolute rubbish. Why should he or anyone not go to football because of scum? Morons wont ever stop people from going to enjoy football around the country and slowly they are being got rid of. It is not a culture they follow, it is a disease and they have it. It wont be fully cured, but it can be treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecko Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 ok. maybe I was wrong... bloody spheres! but seriously, it may have been part of the game when i was "a spakle in my daddy's eye" but it isn't now, violence has absolutely no relevence to football and i can in no way comprehend how someone can link them, and like it. the only thing the "thugs" have achieved is to restrict the freedoms of a real fan, and yes i do believe i am a better fan than the thugs(self rightious? yes!), because of the "louts" I cannot travel to and from matches freely, I cannot walk through a new town or city and experience the place. Instead i get forced to go into grounds an hour before kick off and am not allowed to leave for half an hour after the game, I am forced to get on uncomfortable coaches for anythign up to 7 hours if i choose to support my team. how can they feel any justification in there barbaric tendencies? i really cannot understand. like i said before. the sport of boxing needs to increase participation, the sport of football needs to get rid of the bad egg's, you do the maths Be quiet, your boring now. This whole thread has been blown out of proportion. Of all the City to get arrested, neither got charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaloneFM Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Sssh I'm doing the maths...eggs...plus boxing....egg boxes? We should ban all egg boxes from matches? Well I commend that to the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Be quiet, your boring now. This whole thread has been blown out of proportion. Of all the City to get arrested, neither got charged. the thread has evolved, there is such a thing as a conversation developing into something else :| you be quiet, you've added nothing to the conversation(whatever it's subject) with your post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djc Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Absolute rubbish. Why should he or anyone not go to football because of scum? Morons wont ever stop people from going to enjoy football around the country and slowly they are being got rid of. It is not a culture they follow, it is a disease and they have it. It wont be fully cured, but it can be treated. I'm not telling him not to go ,just stop whining about what a bad experience it is and admit that i like him have as much right to go to football as anybody else ,anyway it is getting boring now I'm not going to stop going and neither are people like you so lets all go and enjoy the day as we please roll on derby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm not telling him not to go ,just stop whining about what a bad experience it is and admit that i like him have as much right to go to football as anybody else ,anyway it is getting boring now I'm not going to stop going and neither are people like you so lets all go and enjoy the day as we please roll on derby but thats the point, I can't enjoy games against Wolves, cardiff, Swansea, Forest, etc etc to a full extent because of the"yobs" from both sides. i didnt for one minute suggest you have no right to GO TO THE FOOTBALL, WATCH THE FOOTBALL, HAVE FUN, ACT LIKE A CIVILISED HUMAN etc i do however condemn and challenge your right(maybe not you, but anyones right) to intimidate fellow supporters yound and old with your actions(not directed at them granted, but NOBODY WANTS TO SEE IT) why should you have the right to BREAK THE LAW(yes assaulting fellow Humans is classed as against the law!!!!!! SHOCK!) just beacuse it's a football match? its deluded, immature and downright disrespectful to every single FOOTBALL FAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee F Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 the thread has evolved, there is such a thing as a conversation developing into something else :| you be quiet, you've added nothing to the conversation(whatever it's subject) with your post! Have to be fair and say you are correct buddy it has evolved a lot like the way the mentality of watching/following a team has. I as you have seen do not agree with you on a lot of points and feel if you were following City in another era ala myself, Bully, Portland Bill etc you would have a better understanding of what we are trying to impress upon you. Having said that I applaud (sic) your moral standing(hope for the youth of today afterall). It goes to show that the powers that be are changing football, for better or worse I am not totally sure. Less aggro, better facilities, new stadia, family days etc etc. Good some say! Yet I am from an era of wet Wednesdays at Chesterfield, stood in the rain, cheap pay on the turnstile entertainment, having 2000 people cramed into enough space for 1000, days away with the boys who have slaved all week in crappy deadend jobs just to be able to go. To be honest I can say I would not change any of it for the world. This season I moved my season ticket from the Dolman to the EE along with my 12yr old son. He wanted to go for the atmosphere and so he could sing with other singers. I wanted to go because it is the closest I can get him to having the experiences I had as a young lad. Poor views as I am a short arse, crap toilets, cider smelling breath all around and an atmosphere that makes you buzz. We went to Cardiff so he could experience the rush of intimidation of passionate supporters in an away ground. These are all things people may dislike but I really enjoyed as a lad and still do. Its a part of the culture I was raised on. He is lucky,he has the best of both worlds, he is safer than I ever was, he is also following a successful team. I have no problem with your way or mine or anyone elses, it is a credit to Bristol City and football in general that people with massively different outlooks and desires can both get every thing they want together at the same time. Again the responses on this thread have proved we are not all the same yet can join together under one group banner wanting the same thing - success for Bristiol City footbal club. Remember you can be anywhere in the world doing anything you like, but you will always be a Cidered! Your way or mine it doesn't matter, it's all about being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Have to be fair and say you are correct buddy it has evolved a lot like the way the mentality of watching/following a team has. I as you have seen do not agree with you on a lot of points and feel if you were following City in another era ala myself, Bully, Portland Bill etc you would have a better understanding of what we are trying to impress upon you. Having said that I applaud (sic) your moral standing(hope for the youth of today afterall). It goes to show that the powers that be are changing football, for better or worse I am not totally sure. Less aggro, better facilities, new stadia, family days etc etc. Good some say! Yet I am from an era of wet Wednesdays at Chesterfield, stood in the rain, cheap pay on the turnstile entertainment, having 2000 people cramed into enough space for 1000, days away with the boys who have slaved all week in crappy deadend jobs just to be able to go. To be honest I can say I would not change any of it for the world. This season I moved my season ticket from the Dolman to the EE along with my 12yr old son. He wanted to go for the atmosphere and so he could sing with other singers. I wanted to go because it is the closest I can get him to having the experiences I had as a young lad. Poor views as I am a short arse, crap toilets, cider smelling breath all around and an atmosphere that makes you buzz. We went to Cardiff so he could experience the rush of intimidation of passionate supporters in an away ground. These are all things people may dislike but I really enjoyed as a lad and still do. Its a part of the culture I was raised on. He is lucky,he has the best of both worlds, he is safer than I ever was, he is also following a successful team. I have no problem with your way or mine or anyone elses, it is a credit to Bristol City and football in general that people with massively different outlooks and desires can both get every thing they want together at the same time. Again the responses on this thread have proved we are not all the same yet can join together under one group banner wanting the same thing - success for Bristiol City footbal club. Remember you can be anywhere in the world doing anything you like, but you will always be a Cidered! Your way or mine it doesn't matter, it's all about being there. but you have just describe how i support. I sing my heart out, i go to away games, I've been to cardiff, millwall etc. I do sing songs about the opposition fans, if its suitable, i will join in abusing a opposition player/manager/official I love standing for 90 minutes, i love the banter in the group i stand with at the back of the B block. I however don't understand why some think that anything further than that is acceptable. I may not have experienced it, but my dad has been following city since the early 70's. I've heard the stories. they're entertaining, funny & laddish, but they are still stupid. I am not in anyway a perfect fan, I take it too far sometimes, I swear, i have screamed at Jevon's, Lever, Burnell, Thorpe and every other over rated player to play at the gate in my time. But thats the fans perogotive. I am not breaking laws, and fighting in "the park" and thats the only thing i don't understand. How can it have been acceptable in any era? surely any self respecting human being can see how wrong, immature and pointless it is? anyway, thanks for your courtious reply. debate like this is much more intriguing than having to contend with others. and much mroe entertaining might i add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Having said that I applaud (sic) your moral standing(hope for the youth of today afterall). It goes to show that the powers that be are changing football, for better or worse I am not totally sure. Less aggro, better facilities, new stadia, family days etc etc. Good some say! Yet I am from an era of wet Wednesdays at Chesterfield, stood in the rain, cheap pay on the turnstile entertainment, having 2000 people cramed into enough space for 1000, days away with the boys who have slaved all week in crappy deadend jobs just to be able to go. To be honest I can say I would not change any of it for the world. This season I moved my season ticket from the Dolman to the EE along with my 12yr old son. He wanted to go for the atmosphere and so he could sing with other singers. I wanted to go because it is the closest I can get him to having the experiences I had as a young lad. Poor views as I am a short arse, crap toilets, cider smelling breath all around and an atmosphere that makes you buzz. We went to Cardiff so he could experience the rush of intimidation of passionate supporters in an away ground. These are all things people may dislike but I really enjoyed as a lad and still do. Its a part of the culture I was raised on. He is lucky,he has the best of both worlds, he is safer than I ever was, he is also following a successful team. All of the above is STILL a part of football, but i notice you have not actually included any violence in those scenario's. Passion does NOT have to include violence. Why cant any of the above happen without threat of violence? I'd say it can still happen and does. Some of my favourite memories are similar in football terms as yours, i was at Chesterfield when we lost 1-0 in our promotion season and Brian Tinnion went in goal. Crap ground, toilets,(if you can call a wall with a drain system a toilet),standing and i'll always remember the Brentford away games in the terrace under the seating bit above, banging on the tin walls at the back. But i also remember going to Millwall in 97/98? (won 2-0), we had to get a police escort from Tower bridge in and out of the ground, the game was ruined at the end by Millwall fans invading the pitch and trying to get in the City end, even though we were all on the second tier. Was that passion? i personally don't think it was. who knows, but it certainly ruins the atmosphere. There simply is no room for violence in todays game. Someone suggested that those who don't want to see it or be a part of it should follow an other sport. Thanfully that wont be the case, and it is those who do want to be 'hooligans' who will be forced to follow something else, if they cant get their kicks out of all the above without resorting to the next level, violence, then they wont have a future watching the game. How much do they really want to follow their club? If city means that much to them, then surely they wouldnt risk the banning order that would stop them from their passion. Or is it that their passion is violence, and actually not football or City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee F Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 All of the above is STILL a part of football, but i notice you have not actually included any violence in those scenario's. Passion does NOT have to include violence. Why cant any of the above happen without threat of violence? I'd say it can still happen and does. Some of my favourite memories are similar in football terms as yours, i was at Chesterfield when we lost 1-0 in our promotion season and Brian Tinnion went in goal. Crap ground, toilets,(if you can call a wall with a drain system a toilet),standing and i'll always remember the Brentford away games in the terrace under the seating bit above, banging on the tin walls at the back. But i also remember going to Millwall in 97/98? (won 2-0), we had to get a police escort from Tower bridge in and out of the ground, the game was ruined at the end by Millwall fans invading the pitch and trying to get in the City end, even though we were all on the second tier. Was that passion? i personally don't think it was. who knows, but it certainly ruins the atmosphere. There simply is no room for violence in todays game. Someone suggested that those who don't want to see it or be a part of it should follow an other sport. Thanfully that wont be the case, and it is those who do want to be 'hooligans' who will be forced to follow something else, if they cant get their kicks out of all the above without resorting to the next level, violence, then they wont have a future watching the game. How much do they really want to follow their club? If city means that much to them, then surely they wouldnt risk the banning order that would stop them from their passion. Or is it that their passion is violence, and actually not football or City? I have not said violence has a place at football or said it is a part of my personal enjoyment. I posted origanally to comment on 'All hoolies are chavs' and 'They are not die hard fans' which I think anyone who has read my perspective cannot now agree with. What I did go on to say and fully believe is that football hooligans of the type I have commented on and know will not stop what they see as part of their day out. They will continue but it will happen away from the grounds as does happen now. I am not promoting it. As you have seen I take my 12yr old son so trouble is the last thing I want to see or be around and thankfully that has been the case. There will always be exceptions such as the Millwall game you mentioned where it will and has occured in and close to grounds, yet these are becoming fewer and fewer as time progresses and better dectection techniques are used. Case in point Birmingham away this week - 20yrs ago would of been a very different experience to now. Did anyone see fighting? If you did I would hazzard you were 'involved' and it would not have been by chance. People have commented on other threads to the group of youngsters to our right who were 'giving it large all game'. It was as I have explained young lads showing out, bantering and being kids- playground antics. They were not intimidating in the slightest and cannot be described as hooligans. Yet some who do not have real knowledge of the scene would say they were. My real point here I guess is that because you wear certain clothing and/or sing certain songs you are classed as a hooligan. This is just not true. To be a hooligan takes a lot more than that. That is what is known as terrace culture. I for instance like to not wear colours, however it is for much different reasons than 20yrs ago. I like my Stone Island, Lacoste, Fjall Raven, Lyle&Scott etc as does my 12yr old. That does not make me or him a hooligan, it makes us a follower of terrace culture. A part of my enjoyment of football. In this day and age of diversity you cannot pidgeon hole people as one thing and one thing alone. We live in a world of choice and can be an do mostly anything we choose. Because of this some choose to fight. My statement previously made I stand by - If like minded choose to meet like minded and fight - let them get on with it. I can tell you for fact this type of person the police describe as 'Hardcore Hooligan' are harder to detect as it is done not by chance but by prior arrangement away from the ground and other fans. Like it or not this is another culture associated with football, it is a smaller number who are involved than previously but it is not about to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djc Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have not said violence has a place at football or said it is a part of my personal enjoyment. I posted origanally to comment on 'All hoolies are chavs' and 'They are not die hard fans' which I think anyone who has read my perspective cannot now agree with. What I did go on to say and fully believe is that football hooligans of the type I have commented on and know will not stop what they see as part of their day out. They will continue but it will happen away from the grounds as does happen now. I am not promoting it. As you have seen I take my 12yr old son so trouble is the last thing I want to see or be around and thankfully that has been the case. There will always be exceptions such as the Millwall game you mentioned where it will and has occured in and close to grounds, yet these are becoming fewer and fewer as time progresses and better dectection techniques are used. Case in point Birmingham away this week - 20yrs ago would of been a very different experience to now. Did anyone see fighting? If you did I would hazzard you were 'involved' and it would not have been by chance. People have commented on other threads to the group of youngsters to our right who were 'giving it large all game'. It was as I have explained young lads showing out, bantering and being kids- playground antics. They were not intimidating in the slightest and cannot be described as hooligans. Yet some who do not have real knowledge of the scene would say they were. My real point here I guess is that because you wear certain clothing and/or sing certain songs you are classed as a hooligan. This is just not true. To be a hooligan takes a lot more than that. That is what is known as terrace culture. I for instance like to not wear colours, however it is for much different reasons than 20yrs ago. I like my Stone Island, Lacoste, Fjall Raven, Lyle&Scott etc as does my 12yr old. That does not make me or him a hooligan, it makes us a follower of terrace culture. A part of my enjoyment of football. In this day and age of diversity you cannot pidgeon hole people as one thing and one thing alone. We live in a world of choice and can be an do mostly anything we choose. Because of this some choose to fight. My statement previously made I stand by - If like minded choose to meet like minded and fight - let them get on with it. I can tell you for fact this type of person the police describe as 'Hardcore Hooligan' are harder to detect as it is done not by chance but by prior arrangement away from the ground and other fans. Like it or not this is another culture associated with football, it is a smaller number who are involved than previously but it is not about to end. the most sensible post i have read you have it spot on,i just get annoyed that people who decide to wear city shirts and go on supporters coaches seem to think they are better supporters or have more rights than someone who goes on the early train wearing the smart gear,as those who know the game will agree its more about a lads day out than anything else as the policing today makes it near impossible for anything else to happen but we were brought up on these awaydays and in my opinion thats what a day out at football is about the buzz and a craic with your mates and thankfully we have a lot of young lads coming through who will carry this on. brum the other night was a prime example of modern football and how it ruins the atmosphere all sat watching and acting sensible,no aggression no passion and thats what you end up with and thats rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 the most sensible post i have read you have it spot on,i just get annoyed that people who decide to wear city shirts and go on supporters coaches seem to think they are better supporters or have more rights than someone who goes on the early train wearing the smart gear,as those who know the game will agree its more about a lads day out than anything else as the policing today makes it near impossible for anything else to happen but we were brought up on these awaydays and in my opinion thats what a day out at football is about the buzz and a craic with your mates and thankfully we have a lot of young lads coming through who will carry this on. brum the other night was a prime example of modern football and how it ruins the atmosphere all sat watching and acting sensible,no aggression no passion and thats what you end up with and thats rubbish Then as i have said, maybe YOU should look for something else? If you don't enjoy it, the way it now is, then why carry on going? This IS the way it is now, because unfortunately for you mate the majority of people want a safe environment to watch their football team. There is no problem with any form of behaviour at football untill it gets violent and ruins the day for the majority of other people. I don't care what anyone wears to football, i don't care what time they leave for the ground, or how much alcohol they drink before the game or after. What i do care about is the those who behave like morons and smash up busses, smash up pubs and bars, fight on trains and in streets in front of families. Be they proper hooligans or not, wearing stone island or a bikini these are the people who have no place in football and will continue to be squeezed out. If you take any enjoyment from any of the above, then you are simply breaking the law and quite rightly will be cast aside if and when your found guilty. If the above is what makes your football experience fun, then you are a selfish moron who is ruining the game for other people, who gives you that right? And don't suggest you have a right to enjoy yourself, as the facts are this country has LAWS and knowone can break them in the name of enjoyment, having a buzz, or for the craic with the lads. You have mentioned passion and aggression in the same sentance as if by having one it should lead to the other? Passion does not have to be aggressive and there is a gulf between being sensible and being aggressive, why not sit inbetween the two. don't for one second think that you can not be passionate without also being aggressive. Where is passion invloved with smashing up a bus, smashing up a town? How has that helped make an atmosphere better? For the record, i am not saying YOU are invloved in any of the above, you may be i don't know. But when i say 'you' above i simply mean it to be generic to anyone, not you specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee F Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Then as i have said, maybe YOU should look for something else? If you don't enjoy it, the way it now is, then why carry on going? This IS the way it is now, because unfortunately for you mate the majority of people want a safe environment to watch their football team. There is no problem with any form of behaviour at football untill it gets violent and ruins the day for the majority of other people. I don't care what anyone wears to football, i don't care what time they leave for the ground, or how much alcohol they drink before the game or after. What i do care about is the those who behave like morons and smash up busses, smash up pubs and bars, fight on trains and in streets in front of families. Be they proper hooligans or not, wearing stone island or a bikini these are the people who have no place in football and will continue to be squeezed out. If you take any enjoyment from any of the above, then you are simply breaking the law and quite rightly will be cast aside if and when your found guilty. If the above is what makes your football experience fun, then you are a selfish moron who is ruining the game for other people, who gives you that right? And don't suggest you have a right to enjoy yourself, as the facts are this country has LAWS and knowone can break them in the name of enjoyment, having a buzz, or for the craic with the lads. You have mentioned passion and aggression in the same sentance as if by having one it should lead to the other? Passion does not have to be aggressive and there is a gulf between being sensible and being aggressive, why not sit inbetween the two. don't for one second think that you can not be passionate without also being aggressive. Where is passion invloved with smashing up a bus, smashing up a town? How has that helped make an atmosphere better? For the record, i am not saying YOU are invloved in any of the above, you may be i don't know. But when i say 'you' above i simply mean it to be generic to anyone, not you specifically. Nice disclaimer at the end Dan! I think you may have mis interpreted his post slightly. He is saying he was from the same era as me. Away days were a release from the every day grind and pressures of life with your mates. wearing the clobber and making a long day of it in a town miles from home where anything can and at times would happen. Not just violence but also the funny stories of people missing the mini bus/ train home, people peeing themselves because they cant wait for a tiolet, new chants made up out of thin air. At times now football has become sterile to a point it can be as lively and assume the atmosphere of a library. Only at Birmingham 2 mins before kick off the announcer on the pitch called for the home fans to 'Intimidate the away supporters' Was he asking them to be violent and fight? No of course not. He was asking them to become passionate and vocal, get behind the team. In order for them to 'intimidate' this would have to be 'aggressive' support. Is this hooliganism? But it isn't, it is banter and fun. And has been said to help improve the performance of the players. Have you seen the response from 2 or 3 of our players when the chant '###### em up, Get into em' goes up. You can gaurantee a big tackle will be put in to stop the oppsition playing pretty football around us. This is an aggressive chant but creates no violence. Build a Bonfire does not make people burn Cardiff and Sag fans but its aggressive. My old man said, again aggressive, disrespectful to your parents but causes no violence as the words predict. The list goes on. Because things are viewed or can be viewed as aggressive does not make them violent. If the idea of football is for people to sit silent, clapping a goal for either team and eating prawn sandwiches you can keep it. That is not for me. That is not to say provision cant be made for people that want that. It just comes back to people wanting diffferent things from football. I can have what I want, you can have what you want without one of us having to totally compromise our enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think at the end of the day lee, you and I actually probably agree on what todays enjoyment of football should entail. I would not want for a game to be sterile, for the build up to be sterile or for match day experience to have no passion. That for me, would be nothing. I guess the aggression can be summed up differently, as you have put it above, that is not violent and as i have said anything goes UNTILL it becomes violent IMO, What you have described and it is something I have no problem with is IMO 'controlled' aggression. That is though where it should end. If that doesnt turn into violence and people control it then that is great, it makes for a good passionate atmosphere, but what i would want is for that NOT to boil over and it shouldn't. I don't miss the point of what you or others have put forward, football is traditionally a working class sport that used to be cheap, i have no problem with the work hard play hard attitude to going to football matches and letting go, but its a case of how far 'letting go' can go before its a breaking of the law, and TBH more importantly for me, before it ruins other peoples days. There has to be a medium for both approaches to enjoying football matches, i think atm at the gate we have a fairly good option for that. The east end offers the 'craic' factor, the standing up, the going mental, drinking before and after, and it creates a good atmosphere for the whole ground. But at the same time, alot of people don't want to be fully invloved in that, and have the choice not to be. That is how it should be. The east end don't cause any problems at the moment and i don't think they will, there is passion in there and if there is also aggression then its controlled and that is how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee F Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think at the end of the day lee, you and I actually probably agree on what todays enjoyment of football should entail. I would not want for a game to be sterile, for the build up to be sterile or for match day experience to have no passion. That for me, would be nothing. I guess the aggression can be summed up differently, as you have put it above, that is not violent and as i have said anything goes UNTILL it becomes violent IMO, What you have described and it is something I have no problem with is IMO 'controlled' aggression. That is though where it should end. If that doesnt turn into violence and people control it then that is great, it makes for a good passionate atmosphere, but what i would want is for that NOT to boil over and it shouldn't. I don't miss the point of what you or others have put forward, football is traditionally a working class sport that used to be cheap, i have no problem with the work hard play hard attitude to going to football matches and letting go, but its a case of how far 'letting go' can go before its a breaking of the law, and TBH more importantly for me, before it ruins other peoples days. There has to be a medium for both approaches to enjoying football matches, i think atm at the gate we have a fairly good option for that. The east end offers the 'craic' factor, the standing up, the going mental, drinking before and after, and it creates a good atmosphere for the whole ground. But at the same time, alot of people don't want to be fully invloved in that, and have the choice not to be. That is how it should be. The east end don't cause any problems at the moment and i don't think they will, there is passion in there and if there is also aggression then its controlled and that is how it should be. We are both in agreement here. I do feel the Eastend is a perfect example of what I personally desire from my personal experience at football. I agree I cannot see the EE becoming troublesome given the hard work people put into getting it re opened and the fact it is a carnival atmosphere which can be aggressive and intimidating without overstepping the mark. I really think the days of pitched battles on the terraces have well and truly ended and that I think is brilliant for every one who wants to follow their team. But and here is where our opinions differ, you feel the hooligans are not then involved, however they are, it is just not impeeding on yours or mine or anyone elses enjoyment as it is not in or around the ground. That for me is not a pefect scenario for every one but it is as close as it will ever get, and better than the past. Wold just like to add I have enjoyed this thread very much and the insight from many different types of fan without it reducing to a LJ bash, total love in or mod interferance. Well done all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 . But and here is where our opinions differ, you feel the hooligans are not then involved, however they are, it is just not impeeding on yours or mine or anyone elses enjoyment as it is not in or around the ground. That for me is not a pefect scenario for every one but it is as close as it will ever get, and better than the past. Then in alot of ways really they are not involved, if it doesnt effect the club or other supporters then really it is an different entity and not linked (in any damaging way) to the general support of the club or to ruining the enjoyment of others. In this scenario that is fine, i have no problem with it. I don't particulary understand it, but i don't care to if it doesnt affect the club and general supporters. I still don't agree with it and its still breaking the law, but we will never get rid of it completely, so if we can kerep it as far aways as possible then so be it. It has been a good thread, i just cant believe you had to bring LJ into it at the end.....as if he'd ever 'get stuck in'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djc Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Then in alot of ways really they are not involved, if it doesnt effect the club or other supporters then really it is an different entity and not linked (in any damaging way) to the general support of the club or to ruining the enjoyment of others. In this scenario that is fine, i have no problem with it. I don't particulary understand it, but i don't care to if it doesnt affect the club and general supporters. I still don't agree with it and its still breaking the law, but we will never get rid of it completely, so if we can kerep it as far aways as possible then so be it. It has been a good thread, i just cant believe you had to bring LJ into it at the end.....as if he'd ever 'get stuck in'...... healthy debate is what its all about,and its makes a change from being shouted down and dismissed as a thug or chav all that really matters is 3 points at derby and as someone said earlier we all share one thing in common and thats a love of the city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old parkender Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 the most viewed thread on here by a long chalk! seems to be a lot of interest in a bit of a non story about misbehaving!! some of you young chaps get a bit carried away with the old no place for mindless thugs spiel,whenever a large group of predominantly males,be they 16,18or 40 travel anywhere and spend time drinking, something unsavoury will always occur and its not just confined to football ask some of the bar staff in cardiff who have to clear up broken glass and sick after a rugby international or the citizens of cheltenham who have to put up with paralytic and rowdy racegoers taking over thier pubs at the festival,of course this is classed as high spirits and swept under the carpet,my my what would old henrietta and giles cokely-montague say if plod forced them into pub and wouldnt let them leave for 3 hours eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red23 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 but thats the point, I can't enjoy games against Wolves, cardiff, Swansea, Forest, etc etc to a full extent because of the"yobs" from both sides. i didnt for one minute suggest you have no right to GO TO THE FOOTBALL, WATCH THE FOOTBALL, HAVE FUN, ACT LIKE A CIVILISED HUMAN etc i do however condemn and challenge your right(maybe not you, but anyones right) to intimidate fellow supporters yound and old with your actions(not directed at them granted, but NOBODY WANTS TO SEE IT) why should you have the right to BREAK THE LAW(yes assaulting fellow Humans is classed as against the law!!!!!! SHOCK!) just beacuse it's a football match? its deluded, immature and downright disrespectful to every single FOOTBALL FAN. To an extent i agree with you completely. Racist contiribution has no place in football. ) However, as i have to sit infront of you as i am a few rows below in the b block, half the time you chat complete s**t yourself. Many a time i've heard you shout COMPLETE (to keep in your them of capital letters) b***ocks with no reaction. Judging by your reaction you must surely agree that picking out people because of their nationality is wrong? How many time's have you shouted "**** off McIndoe you Scottish ****". Pleanty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.