Johnson Close To Forest Move In January

[NickJ]

Not only is it unfair to blame LJ for not being dropped, but you can't blame GJ either unless you can pinpoint a game for which he should have been dropped.

Done that with you before, Reading at home this season being the most notable example among several. Your response is always the same, that even if LJ has a bad game that is irrelevant if GJ thinks he will play ok in the next game - irrespective of the effect on morale of players who don't get in after LJ has a bad game - so its a waste of time having that debate with you.

More to the point is how well LJ played against Sheffield Wednesday, when he deserved his MoM, and to a lesser extent in the previous home game against Ipswich.

If LJ could play like that more often, there wouldnt be criticism of his being an automatic selection.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Done that with you before, Reading at home this season being the most notable example among several. Your response is always the same, that even if LJ has a bad game that is irrelevant if GJ thinks he will play ok in the next game - irrespective of the effect on morale of players who don't get in after LJ has a bad game - so its a waste of time having that debate with you.

More to the point is how well LJ played against Sheffield Wednesday, when he deserved his MoM, and to a lesser extent in the previous home game against Ipswich.

If LJ could play like that more often, there wouldnt be criticism of his being an automatic selection.

LJ looks a different player when he has licence to go forward more rather than hanging around in our defensive areas where he is expected to do more tackling and any wayward pass can prove expensive.

I think it's far more his natural game to be an attacking midfielder - he is capable of creating and scoring but the way he is all too often used in the City team tend to highlight his defensive frailties and any occasional poor pass rather than give him many opportunities to show his undoubted good points.

He might even be a capable right winger, he managed the cross of the match from the byline on Saturday.

Sproule out, Williams in the middle and LJ wide right? Why not - his height and physique wouldn't be an issue there, and he's got reasonable pace, ball control, stamina and crossing ability. He could hardly be less effective than Ivan.

It's quite possible the role LJ has been asked to play for most of the season would be better taken up by someone else, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't merit consideration for a place in a position with a different remit.

[William Stand]

Done that with you before, Reading at home this season being the most notable example among several. Your response is always the same, that even if LJ has a bad game that is irrelevant if GJ thinks he will play ok in the next game - irrespective of the effect on morale of players who don't get in after LJ has a bad game - so its a waste of time having that debate with you.

More to the point is how well LJ played against Sheffield Wednesday, when he deserved his MoM, and to a lesser extent in the previous home game against Ipswich.

If LJ could play like that more often, there wouldnt be criticism of his being an automatic selection.

I think he also did pretty well at Swansea.

It seems to me that against teams that like to play football, he plays pretty well. However against "in your face" teams" he struggles. I guess the exception is Reading at home, but in truth all of the starting team were pretty shocking that day.

[mindjuicer]

Done that with you before, Reading at home this season being the most notable example among several. Your response is always the same, that even if LJ has a bad game that is irrelevant if GJ thinks he will play ok in the next game

That's one way of putting it.

What I said (and this is the 2nd time) is that dropping LJ after Reading would have deprived us of a rare win (at Southampton) which was our only win in our longest spell without them. LJ has incredible tenacity and had frequently shown the ability to bounce back from bad games.

- irrespective of the effect on morale of players who don't get in after LJ has a bad game

Whose morale was affected? Noble's?

I disagree strongly with GJ not playing the best team, just to appease other players who don't get picked.

Secondly, you don't know who else was fit, nor what happened between Reading and Southampton - I can tell you it's more than you know.

If LJ could play like that more often, there wouldnt be criticism of his being an automatic selection.

Amen.

Nogbad - interesting idea and he does like to beat defenders on the touchline. He'd have to retrain but he's not set in his ways yet. His speed and acceleration aren't great either. We really need a new winger, ideally one who can take set pieces.

WS - another fair point. We'd do better with a bigger player in such games.

[betherz]

Lee Johnson, is pretty much a model professional from and what I know certainly a polite person. I would hope it comes down to how highly a fan rates his football ability rather than an attack on the blokes character, which adjectives such as hate and dislike imply.

yes you are correct there, he is a polite person

if i was honest, id say that i was talking about lee on a character basis but i do highly rate his football ability just as much as his character

[Tales From The Front]

I think he also did pretty well at Swansea.

It seems to me that against teams that like to play football, he plays pretty well. However against "in your face" teams" he struggles. I guess the exception is Reading at home, but in truth all of the starting team were pretty shocking that day.

Agree with your comment about when he is given time and space, the problem is this year and I have no reason to doubt next season those games have greatly reduced. There have been more "In your face" games and City inability to dominate it not just down to Lee Johnson but the midfield as a whole.

He had a good game last Saturday but not MOM for me, more likely Fontaine or Elliott. As I've posted else whare I was more worried that we didn't really creat a chance of note for Maynard and whether Lee Johnson or whowever plays next season that must improve.

[William Stand]

Agree with your comment about when he is given time and space, the problem is this year and I have no reason to doubt next season those games have greatly reduced. There have been more "In your face" games and City inability to dominate it not just down to Lee Johnson but the midfield as a whole.

He had a good game last Saturday but not MOM for me, more likely Fontaine or Elliott. As I've posted else whare I was more worried that we didn't really creat a chance of note for Maynard and whether Lee Johnson or whowever plays next season that must improve.

Really Elliott MoM v Wednesday ??

I thought he was pretty dreadful. At least 3 times he mis placed very simple 10 yard passes that put us massively under the cosh. Without opening a can of worms...... if LJ did that...... :noexpression:

[NickJ]

That's one way of putting it.

What I said (and this is the 2nd time) is that dropping LJ after Reading would have deprived us of a rare win (at Southampton) which was our only win in our longest spell without them. You don't know that, we may have lost at Southampton, we may have won more easily, who knows. What I do know is that playing LJ and 1 or 2 others from the Reading team at Southampton, seemed quite a staggering decision. LJ has incredible tenacity and had frequently shown the ability to bounce back from bad games. Says who? Many players have a couple of poor games then return to form, how is LJ any different, other than that most other players in most other teams are dropped if their form is poor.

Whose morale was affected? Noble's? Why do you mention him? I haven't. He's not the only other player is he?

I disagree strongly with GJ not playing the best team, just to appease other players who don't get picked. That comes back yet again to what you think your strongest team is. Let's look at it the other way then. If a player knows he will be selected week after week regardless of form, how does that motivate him?

Secondly, you don't know who else was fit, nor what happened between Reading and Southampton - I can tell you it's more than you know. You can say that, but you're right, I don't know what happened, if anything at all, and until someone says specifically what has allegedly happened, so far as I am concerned, nothing did. I can't factor heresay into my views.

Amen.

Nogbad - interesting idea and he does like to beat defenders on the touchline. He'd have to retrain but he's not set in his ways yet. His speed and acceleration aren't great either. We really need a new winger, ideally one who can take set pieces. So on the basis that LJ likes to beat defenders on the touchline, but doesn't have any speed or acceleration, he could conceivably "retrain" as a winger? You're right, it's an interesting idea, a revolutionary one I'd say.

WS - another fair point. We'd do better with a bigger player in such games. Amen.

Don't get me wrong Mrs Johnson, I have nothing against Lee, as I've said before, he's a nice lad, and technically a very good footballer, however I still haven't yet heard a convincing reason or explanation as to why Lee is included in the apparent 6/7 players who are automatic selections.

[edson]

Don't get me wrong Mrs Johnson, I have nothing against Lee, as I've said before, he's a nice lad, and technically a very good footballer, however I still haven't yet heard a convincing reason or explanation as to why Lee is included in the apparent 6/7 players who are automatic selections.

I think you probably have heard a reason, you just disagree with it, as is your right.

[NickJ]

I think you probably have heard a reason, you just disagree with it, as is your right.

Not sure what that comment adds, but anyway, that's why I said convincing reason.

[edson]

Not sure what that comment adds, but anyway, that's why I said convincing reason.

The comment infers we have pretty much all been round in circles with this debate.

Even if someone came up with an argument that was convincing to me, it might well not be to you. It's subjective and, as such, almost impossible for anyone to convince you, I think.

[NickJ]

The comment infers we have pretty much all been round in circles with this debate.

Even if someone came up with an argument that was convincing to me, it might well not be to you. It's subjective and, as such, almost impossible for anyone to convince you, I think.

You're probably right.

In terms of dimunitive central midfield players I was brought up on Bobby Kellard and Gerry Gow. During my playing days I still got to see plenty of Bobby Hutchinson and Gary Shelton, the brief period of unforgettable passion from Micky Tanner; the talentless Steve Galliers and the flawed talent of Tommy Doherty.

Swashbuckling, hard-tackling, fearless, heart on their sleeve, in-your-face types.

That's what I like, and as gifted as LJ may be, he will never give us that.

[Mr Mosquito]

You're probably right.

In terms of dimunitive central midfield players I was brought up on Bobby Kellard and Gerry Gow. During my playing days I still got to see plenty of Bobby Hutchinson and Gary Shelton, the brief period of unforgettable passion from Micky Tanner; the talentless Steve Galliers and the flawed talent of Tommy Doherty.

Swashbuckling, hard-tackling, fearless, heart on their sleeve, in-your-face types.

That's what I like, and as gifted as LJ may be, he will never give us that.

Little Steve Galliers certainly wasn't talentless as he had a talent for being ferocious.

[edson]

You're probably right.

In terms of dimunitive central midfield players I was brought up on Bobby Kellard and Gerry Gow. During my playing days I still got to see plenty of Bobby Hutchinson and Gary Shelton, the brief period of unforgettable passion from Micky Tanner; the talentless Steve Galliers and the flawed talent of Tommy Doherty.

Swashbuckling, hard-tackling, fearless, heart on their sleeve, in-your-face types.

That's what I like, and as gifted as LJ may be, he will never give us that.

I think you've hit on something there.

Lee Johnson, for all his ability, just isn't a crowd-pleaser, insofar as he doesn't have that connection with the crowd that comes from going through a few people and representing them on the pitch with a few hard tackles and confrontation that gets the fans on their feet.

Tommy was/is a wasted talent who achieved nothing with City really. He didn't look after himself as he should or have the dedication required to be the best he could be for Bristol City, yet he is held in far higher regard by some City fans than Lee Johnson. When I was doing the Incider, we sold a lot of 'El Motor' Tommy Doc T-shirts, because he was like one of us on the pitch, in some ways. I can't imagine many people would buy a Lee Johnson T-shirt, because he is a model professional and not a crowd pleaser.

I suppose an analogy would be Stephen Hendry and Jimmy White in snooker. One was a seven times World Champion, dedicated to his sport and focussed on being the best he can be. The other never won the World Championship, was a bit of a lad and a raw talent who never maximised his potential. But who gets the bigger cheer at an event? The crowd pleaser.

[Henry]

I think you've hit on something there.

Lee Johnson, for all his ability, just isn't a crowd-pleaser, insofar as he doesn't have that connection with the crowd that comes from going through a few people and representing them on the pitch with a few hard tackles and confrontation that gets the fans on their feet.

Tommy was/is a wasted talent who achieved nothing with City really. He didn't look after himself as he should or have the dedication required to be the best he could be for Bristol City, yet he is held in far higher regard by some City fans than Lee Johnson. When I was doing the Incider, we sold a lot of 'El Motor' Tommy Doc T-shirts, because he was like one of us on the pitch, in some ways. I can't imagine many people would buy a Lee Johnson T-shirt, because he is a model professional and not a crowd pleaser.

I suppose an analogy would be Stephen Hendry and Jimmy White in snooker. One was a seven times World Champion, dedicated to his sport and focussed on being the best he can be. The other never won the World Championship, was a bit of a lad and a raw talent who never maximised his potential. But who gets the bigger cheer at an event? The crowd pleaser.

Totally agree, sadly that why Scott Brown, big heart but poor technically, will always be more liked then Lee Johnson who has achieved far more in his time with City

[bristolcitysweden]

I come on here about once a week so may have missed this if it was mentioned in January as I know a few posters are 'in the know'. I was chatting to a mate of Lee Johnson's yesterday and he mentioned how close Lee came to moving to Forest in January.

I don't know the details of a fee but Johnson was (and I imagine still is) getting sick of the fans boos and abuse. We know that he wouldnt get the same stick if he wasnt the managers son and obviously Gary rates him highly and with what GJ has achieved here his opinion is good enough for me.

Just wanted to know everyone's thoughts on how 'we' nearly drove a first team player out of the club.

Anyone knows if Colin Calderwood got a new job?

[!james]

Anyone knows if Colin Calderwood got a new job?

coaching at newcastle

[bcfcbs20]

coaching at newcastle

along with mr good looking iain dowie

[cheese]

coaching at newcastle

That explains their predicament then!! :noexpression:

[cheese]

along with mr good looking iain dowie

Further proof if any were needed!!!

[Rednready]

I may be old but I just don't get this LJ phobia. Two of the leading posts are about him, over 5500 hits and 100 plus posts. Thats rock star status, for just an average guy in the squad.

He is number 1 in appearances, with 46 this season. so we have had plenty of time to watch him, this and every season he's been here.

GJ's selection philosophy revolves around players affecting games. Over the past month LJ has definately lifted his game, however plenty in the squad have switched off with the season no longer meaningfull. In 46 appearances has LJ affected more than perhaps 10 games, with the majority of dead ball situations should he have scored more goals. With the clubs aim to move forward and upward, is he the type of center midfielder we need to affect the game sufficiently to gain that objective.

LJ was above average in league 1 and imo barely average in the Championship. He keeps fit does a job without being a dominent midfield force.

If we do indeed get to the Premier League, do any of you actually think he will affect the game at that level. IMO, not a chance. If Elliot leaves, as seems likely and Artus does not get a chance, will we be contenders next season. We need quality, aggression, goals and creativity, something we have not had all season, except in small doses.

Plenty of posters have mentioned the lack of quality football this season. In the modern age. BCFC are in the entertainment industry. Patrons have plenty of options for their extra cash. The club serves up poor entertainment then fans will stay at home or be entertained elsewhere.

The economy is down, there is less family cash available, fix the squad..........seriously !

[bcfcbs20]

ok last season lj was our link man he found space to receive the ball from defence and play it forward but this season teams have got wise and reliased that buy putting him under pressure and closing him down it stops us playing so at the same time its up to the others in the midfield to step up there game and they havnt yes skuse and elliott are doing the same job to the opposition that they are doing on lj the midfield destroyer role but mcindoe and sproule create very little for the roles they play in the team but to be fair lj is learning and getting better he gets the ball and offloads quickly now and is improving where as others in the midfield don't effect the game as they should how many times has mcindoe or sproule took on a full back and then set up a striker to score i don't understand all the negative vibes around lj when others in the team are just a culpriable but hardly get a mention

[big p]

ok last season lj was our link man he found space to receive the ball from defence and play it forward but this season teams have got wise and reliased that buy putting him under pressure and closing him down it stops us playing so at the same time its up to the others in the midfield to step up there game and they havnt yes skuse and elliott are doing the same job to the opposition that they are doing on lj the midfield destroyer role but mcindoe and sproule create very little for the roles they play in the team but to be fair lj is learning and getting better he gets the ball and offloads quickly now and is improving where as others in the midfield don't effect the game as they should how many times has mcindoe or sproule took on a full back and then set up a striker to score i don't understand all the negative vibes around lj when others in the team are just a culpriable but hardly get a mention

I can see that your still bored with all the LJ talk.Talking on 2 LJ threads at the same time.

[bcfcbs20]

no I'm bored of the same people saying the same stuff over and over again not bringing anything new to the posts like your good self

[big p]

no I'm bored of the same people saying the same stuff over and over again not bringing anything new to the posts like your good self

well youve said 2 simular things on 2 threads,does that make you boring

[bcfcbs20]

well youve said 2 simular things on 2 threads,does that make you boring

no because they havnt been said for the 1000th time on this forum unlike most of what you and a load others post whenever there is a lj thread find something to post that is original and it wont be boring

[mindjuicer]

Don't get me wrong Mrs Johnson,

Which one?

I have nothing against Lee, as I've said before, he's a nice lad, and technically a very good footballer, however I still haven't yet heard a convincing reason or explanation as to why Lee is included in the apparent 6/7 players who are automatic selections.

Sorry, Noble, but isn't that changing the goalposts?

We were talking about whether he should have/shouldn't have been dropped but now that argument has been dropped and you've raised the bar to "automatic selection".

Although LJ has certainly justified his place in recent months, it's probably impossible for anyone on the forum to justify his automatic selection and I don't recall anyone claiming he should be.

Here I have to bow to GJ's superior judgement. GJ has said that LJ makes the team work and there's certainly some evidence that we play better when LJ is on the pitch.

Your argument seems to be that because GJ has said LJ is an automatic selection, he's obviously blind in this one area thus proving LJ should have been dropped. As if that makes any sense.

[Tales From The Front]

Which one?

Sorry, Noble, but isn't that changing the goalposts?

We were talking about whether he should have/shouldn't have been dropped but now that argument has been dropped and you've raised the bar to "automatic selection".

Although LJ has certainly justified his place in recent months, it's probably impossible for anyone on the forum to justify his automatic selection and I don't recall anyone claiming he should be.

Here I have to bow to GJ's superior judgement. GJ has said that LJ makes the team work and there's certainly some evidence that we play better when LJ is on the pitch.

Your argument seems to be that because GJ has said LJ is an automatic selection, he's obviously blind in this one area thus proving LJ should have been dropped. As if that makes any sense.

As much as I agree with Gary on other topics the midfield and LJ making the team work isn't one of them. For large periods of the season it hasn't worked, certianly not in the final run in and as a an ever present in the side he (and others) take responsibility.

The whole squad take big plaudits for their post Christmas surge up the table and Lee Johnson has contibuted on occassion, I though Readig away he played particularly well, making season 07/08 satisfactory if not an entertaining consolidation. I just personaly beleive, that given its time again this squad of players would not perform any differently.

[NickJ]

Which one?

Well let's put it this way, I think you are doing a very good job of sounding like Lee's mum.

I am right, aren't I?

Sorry, Noble, but isn't that changing the goalposts?

Unlike the majority of people on here, I think my username and details given in my personal profile demonstrate I don't hide behind false names. Unless Noble is pretending to be me, which would be somewhat bizarre.

Wish I'd had half of Noble's talent though.

We were talking about whether he should have/shouldn't have been dropped but now that argument has been dropped and you've raised the bar to "automatic selection".

Although LJ has certainly justified his place in recent months, it's probably impossible for anyone on the forum to justify his automatic selection and I don't recall anyone claiming he should be.

Here I have to bow to GJ's superior judgement. GJ has said that LJ makes the team work and there's certainly some evidence that we play better when LJ is on the pitch.

The only person that claims LJ should be an automatic selection is GJ - by actions and, recently words, unless LJ isn't one of the 6 or 7 he was referring to. That's the whole point of this never ending debate.

I don't agree Lee has necessarily justified his place in recent months. Sure, he's had decent games when it didn't matter and the opposition were looking to play football rather than up for a fight, as in the games against Ipswich and Sheffield recently, but as soon as he's up against a feisty opponent, even vertically challenged ones like Lee - so recently McKenna of Preston immediately springs to mind - Lee is outfought, outmuscled and totally ineffective.

Your argument seems to be that because GJ has said LJ is an automatic selection, he's obviously blind in this one area thus proving LJ should have been dropped. As if that makes any sense.

Not really, no.

Anyway Mrs Johnson, as I said, Lee is a gifted footballer, a nice lad, and as he will most obviously figure in next season's opening line ups, I sincerely hope as a Bristol City fan that he has a storming season doing all of the things that I think in general he doesn't do.

But equally if he isn't doing those things, as was the case for a large part of the early part of this season, I hope GJ will see fit to bring a replacement in.

[Robbored]

Crowd pleasing is exactly why 7 goal Jacki and not many more goals Trundle were/are are so popular. Both of them were fancy tricksters who didn't work hard enough for the team and yet many fans love them.

As for Lee Johnson. I tend to agree with his Dad. He does bring a lot to the team by always being available. The amount of loose balls he picks up is tremendous as well. What the ciritics pick up on is the fact that he's playing under his Dad, he doesn't score anything like enough goals, he's diminuative and makes too many wayward passes by trying to be too fancy. Any other players with same qualities/weaknesses wouldn't take as much stick as Lee Johnson does.

I've said before that Lee Johnson would be better off playing under a different manager. The accusations of nepotism wouldn't enter into. He'd be playing in a team with no question regarding whether he merited his place or not. If he continues to play for his Dad there will always be a shadow over his career - regardless of whether its warrented or not.

He would get a greater level of professional satisfaction knowing simply that. If he was approached by another CCC club then he should he should seriously think about moving away from AG.