NickJ Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Interesting discussion on ziderheads going on has got me thinking. In the seasons since we started playing in the Championship, how many quality players have been brought in? Elliott for example doesn't count because he joined before the first season started. Well, it all depends on how you rate any of the players brought in. Adebola, Carle, Maynard, are the only real contenders, none of whom have been universally acclaimed from day one throughout their spell here. Possibly Williams, although even Johnson himself doent seem to rate him that highly. 2007/08 was a crest of the wave on the back of the previous promotion, as very often happens with newly promoted teams. The bubble appears to have burst. To be fair there have only been 3 transfer windows, plus the current one, nevertheless the more recent signings don't inspire confidence. Add to that the rumours which do not seem to want to go away, of 2 of our best players, Orr and Elliott being wooed. I have always been of the opinion that getting us out of Division 3 was the easy bit, notwithstanding the fact that an assortment of muppets, nearly-men and wrong choices didn't manage it in 9 seasons. GJ will truly be judged on whether he can get us another promotion. Make or break season for Sir Gary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I have always been of the opinion that getting us out of Division 3 was the easy bit, notwithstanding the fact that an assortment of muppets, nearly-men and wrong choices didn't manage it in 9 seasons. GJ will truly be judged on whether he can get us another promotion. Make or break season for Sir Gary? Johnson should be given seasons not just another. A assortment of muppets, nearly-men and wrong choices couldn't keep City in this divsion twice let a lone a marvellous fourth and highly respectable tenth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 What does 'make or break' actually mean in this situation? Johnson see's us promoted for the 2nd time in 4 seasons or he faces the axe? Seriously sometimes I don't know what planet some people are on or what football team they think they support. It's been what, approaching three decades since we were in the top flight, and yet some have the audacity and sheer ignorance to label the best manager this club has seen in a generation with a potential 'make or break' situation. Absolutely beyond a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 At the moment i personally think his 2 best signings since being in the CCC are Maynard and Williams not nessassarily because of what the have done so far (although they have both done ok) but for the potencial that i believe they have! Given the right service and played in the best positions i personally think they could turn out to be class signings! Given the wrong service and played in the wrong positions and there talent will be wasted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDziek Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 What does 'make or break' actually mean in this situation? Johnson see's us promoted for the 2nd time in 4 seasons or he faces the axe? Seriously sometimes I don't know what planet some people are on or what football team they think they support. It's been what, approaching three decades since we were in the top flight, and yet some have the audacity and sheer ignorance to label the best manager this club has seen in a generation with a potential 'make or break' situation. Absolutely beyond a joke. Well said. It seems as though, if we finish lower than 10th next season, people will demand Johnson be given the push. Absolutely ridiculous. Johnson's achievements thus far demand respect, and also time at the helm, not comments like 'make or break season'. He may have made mistakes, but there isnt one manager out there who hasn't. And if he hasnt signed any/much quality as is alleged, he's done awfully well to finish 4th and 10th in a very competitive division with mediocre players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Make or break season for Sir Gary? Certainly and important season for his credibilty. Failure to bring in some quality - especially in midfield will simply raise concerns amongst the faithful about his ability to build a team good enough of winning promotion. One the critics start its hard to shut them up He has to produce a team that scores more goals. Two seasons in the CCC with zero goal difference say it all. Its been said many times that its not necessarily the strikers that are to blame. They are not going to score many without decent service and thats been lacking. Somehow I get the feeling that Johnson is looking at every other part of the team expect midfield. I really hope I'm wrong. Not sure about 'make or break'. He is after all sat on a long contract but he will be at risk of losing the goodwill of the fans if he doesn't improve the squad adequately enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 GJ has proved he is a good manager and has done well with City. So players who are of a good standard and better than some of the players we have already, should be thinking " Bristol City, have the potential to be a better club and i could help them achieve this". If GJ cannot persuade the better type of player to us, i think he still should be given that couple of seasons to try and see if the potential some of the youngsters have shown come to fruition. Gary will know when it's time to move over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodbarmyarmy Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Not sure if this particular upcoming season can be titled the "make or break" for GJ but it will be interesting to see how long the "GJ Can do no wrong" brigade will give it before they finally have enough of mediocre performances and mid table finishes IMO this season he defo needs "HIS" team (for thats what is now without any doubt) to stand up and show some more fight when things are against them as well as show that he, as the manager,can handle big ego's and not run away from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 What does 'make or break' actually mean in this situation? Johnson see's us promoted for the 2nd time in 4 seasons or he faces the axe? Seriously sometimes I don't know what planet some people are on or what football team they think they support. It's been what, approaching three decades since we were in the top flight, and yet some have the audacity and sheer ignorance to label the best manager this club has seen in a generation with a potential 'make or break' situation. Absolutely beyond a joke. Thats what you get for asking a question Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Quality players can't just be magicked in overnight. The club has to grow gradually and carefully in order to achieve sustained success. To go from newly-promoted potential relegation candidates to class-above potential champions is never, ever going to happen quickly (do you think Manchester City will be challenging for the Premier League title next season? I doubt it). We were lucky that the side Johnson assembled for the Championship was a decent one, and although we finished lower this season than last I still feel the squad is of better quality overall. It had to be to compensate for the effect of other teams knowing more about our players and the loss of momentum following the playoff defeat. I am confident that we will improve again next season and hopefully challenge for a place in the top 6, but only relegation would make me consider replacing Johnson and even then it would have to be a catastrophically bad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinker Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 What does 'make or break' actually mean in this situation? Johnson see's us promoted for the 2nd time in 4 seasons or he faces the axe? Seriously sometimes I don't know what planet some people are on or what football team they think they support. It's been what, approaching three decades since we were in the top flight, and yet some have the audacity and sheer ignorance to label the best manager this club has seen in a generation with a potential 'make or break' situation. Absolutely beyond a joke. We still ended up 10th in the old division 2. Not top flight. there are questions over quality of football and judgements. The next 6 to 8 weeks will tell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Not sure if this particular upcoming season can be titled the "make or break" for GJ but it will be interesting to see how long the "GJ Can do no wrong" brigade will give it before they finally have enough of mediocre performances and mid table finishes IMO this season he defo needs "HIS" team (for thats what is now without any doubt) to stand up and show some more fight when things are against them as well as show that he, as the manager,can handle big ego's and not run away from them I hear that said a fair bit. What examples are you thinking about when you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 We still ended up 10th in the old division 2. Not top flight. there are questions over quality of football and judgements. The next 6 to 8 weeks will tell.... City were relegated first season last time and went down after five time before. Highest position in those six seasons I think was ninth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted June 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thats what you get for asking a question Nick Half expected the hysterical mob to come out in force Chris. Just to clarify, for those in any doubt, "Sir Gary" is not used in an ironic sense. By make or break, I don't mean, "sacked if we aren't promoted". Take a look at Newcastle, just for example. I mean, I think this season will show whether GJ has got what it takes, or whether, to coin a phrase, he is a Conference Manager. If he hasn't got what it takes - by which I mean promotion, or signs that he has the capability - it doesnt follow that he should go, because for every better manager there will be 10 who are worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Half expected the hysterical mob to come out in force Chris. Or the pragmatists who understand what a massive job the role is and look to the two brief returns to this division as a example of what instabilty brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 It's far from hysteria, infact it's actually rather logical, or at least significantly more logical than those posing questions off a manager who has achieved more in a short space of time than any of us could have dreamed. Ive admitted before that Johnson makes mistakes, only a fool would consider him faultless. What were you expecting after we arrived in the Championship? Presumably, and please don't let me put words in yours or anyones mouths, avoid relegation, consolidation? Therefore to reach a playoff final after never being far from the summit and then consolidate a season later is a pretty good achievement is it not? In regard to ego's the only three major instances i can think of are; Stewart - failed to make an impact before, didnt like being put in his place, he left, we showed automatic promotion form for a half a season and were promoted the next, Easter - Johnson didnt like his attitude, was applauded at the time, where is he now? Mifsud - Messed the club around, Johnson lost patience, with all due respect, he,s now at Barnsley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Not sure if this particular upcoming season can be titled the "make or break" for GJ but it will be interesting to see how long the "GJ Can do no wrong" brigade will give it before they finally have enough of mediocre performances and mid table finishes IMO this season he defo needs "HIS" team (for thats what is now without any doubt) to stand up and show some more fight when things are against them as well as show that he, as the manager,can handle big ego's and not run away from them Mediocre performances I'll let you have - but mid table finishes?? We've finished 4th and 10th! It will be interesting to see how long the 'GJ can do no right' brigade will give it before they finally admit the manager is doing a hell of a job and let him get on with it. Other fans that come on here must piss themselves at how certain people think we're a massive club all of a sudden. We're just going into our 3rd season at this level FFS - there is no magic wand, there's no endless supply of cash. A massive club we're not, a not bad Championship club is what we are, maybe we should try and be a good Championship club first before we try anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Mediocre performances I'll let you have - but mid table finishes?? We've finished 4th and 10th! It will be interesting to see how long the 'GJ can do no right' brigade will give it before they finally admit the manager is doing a hell of a job and let him get on with it. Other fans that come on here must piss themselves at how certain people think we're a massive club all of a sudden. We're just going into our 3rd season at this level FFS - there is no magic wand, there's no endless supply of cash. A massive club we're not, a not bad Championship club is what we are, maybe we should try and be a good Championship club first before we try anything else! Never have i agreed with a comment more on this site than that one!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I don't think it is a make or break season for him per se. I think some, me included, would just like to see him adopt a slightly more positive, attacking approach......it seems to me that he is concerned more about not losing than he is about winning. Which is all well and good as his current mentality is unlikely to get us relegated, but equally will it bring to a position where we really compete at the top end of this league and ultimately take us to Premier League Football??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Granted his style isnt always aesthetically pleasing but didnt we finish 4th, reach a play-off final and were top of the league with 2 months left only last season? That's pretty close to achieving Premier League football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I go into this season with less optimism than any of the previous 3, last season we were on the back of a play off final, the season before the back of promotion and the season before that was on the back of a good second half of Johnson's first season. We start this season on the back of a very creditable 10th place but a very poor end to the season. Before the previous 2 seasons attracting players would have been easier than it is going to be now (due to our previous success) and i feel that we didn't capatilise on that last year. Our better players such as Elliott will now be thinking how much further is this squad going to be able to progress and there is a danger that we don't replace the players that leave with better quality ones. I don't think it is make or break for Johnson this next season (as in he should be sacked if we don't make the top 6), but his reputation has been built on continued improvement and that could suffer next year if we don't make the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ... Failure to bring in some quality - especially in midfield will simply raise concerns amongst the faithful ... ... By make or break, I don't mean, "sacked if we aren't promoted" ... If he hasn't got what it takes ... it doesnt follow that he should go faithful a. showing faith; loyal, constant break v.t. & i. ... make or become discontinuous; crack, graze; disable, discourage, destroy, cease, exhaust .... and a few other meanings that I can't be bothered to type out - but none of them mean "stay in the job" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's right Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Interesting discussion on ziderheads going on has got me thinking. In the seasons since we started playing in the Championship, how many quality players have been brought in? Elliott for example doesn't count because he joined before the first season started. Well, it all depends on how you rate any of the players brought in. Adebola, Carle, Maynard, are the only real contenders, none of whom have been universally acclaimed from day one throughout their spell here. Possibly Williams, although even Johnson himself doent seem to rate him that highly. 2007/08 was a crest of the wave on the back of the previous promotion, as very often happens with newly promoted teams. The bubble appears to have burst. To be fair there have only been 3 transfer windows, plus the current one, nevertheless the more recent signings don't inspire confidence. Add to that the rumours which do not seem to want to go away, of 2 of our best players, Orr and Elliott being wooed. I have always been of the opinion that getting us out of Division 3 was the easy bit, notwithstanding the fact that an assortment of muppets, nearly-men and wrong choices didn't manage it in 9 seasons. GJ will truly be judged on whether he can get us another promotion. Make or break season for Sir Gary? When it comes to spending money Gary Johnsons record is shocking. The only players that have been a quality signings are ones that have been picked up on a free (and then you can only count them on one hand) Give gary a bit of money to sign and i think folds under the pressure of it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's right Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 faithful a. showing faith; loyal, constant break v.t. & i. ... make or become discontinuous; crack, graze; disable, discourage, destroy, cease, exhaust .... and a few other meanings that I can't be bothered to type out - but none of them mean "stay in the job" you get some smart arses on this forum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Bristol City are a championship side not a league one or a Premier League (YET!) Time and patience is what is needed. Build a team that are keen to stay around for a few years and build year on year in to a title challenging team. I think last years' league position got people too excited and are now fustrated. I'm very happy to see Bristol City in the championship - We can be a big club (or fashionable) - We need to be in challenging for the top of league by the time the new staidum opens. A group of men in suits were seen at 3pm on the new stadium site......couldn't see who it was as I drove out of David Lloyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Half expected the hysterical mob to come out in force Chris. Just to clarify, for those in any doubt, "Sir Gary" is not used in an ironic sense. By make or break, I don't mean, "sacked if we aren't promoted". Take a look at Newcastle, just for example. I mean, I think this season will show whether GJ has got what it takes, or whether, to coin a phrase, he is a Conference Manager. If he hasn't got what it takes - by which I mean promotion, or signs that he has the capability - it doesnt follow that he should go, because for every better manager there will be 10 who are worse. To be fair Nick, in anyone's language, "make or break" is pretty much suggesting the manager should go (break) if we don't go up (make). Whilst you've since denied that's what you meant, to most people reading it, thats how it comes across. For me, that is a far more hysterical statement than any of the responses you've received. I want us to be more aggressive this seaon - especially at home, if we can do this & maintain a top 10 place thats fine by me. Its all very well saying "getting out of league 1 was the easy bit", but actually, it wasn't very easy, hence it took 9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 When it comes to spending money Gary Johnsons record is shocking. The only players that have been a quality signings are ones that have been picked up on a free (and then you can only count them on one hand) Give gary a bit of money to sign and i think folds under the pressure of it!!! Without really thinking: Elliott McIndoe Adebola All cost money & all have delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Granted his style isnt always aesthetically pleasing but didnt we finish 4th, reach a play-off final and were top of the league with 2 months left only last season? That's pretty close to achieving Premier League football. For me, watching pretty football is a non-issue, all I am interested in is the result......and the best way to acheive a positive result. If he wants to go long ball, that's fine, but select players to compliment that tactic, buy two massive strikers who can do something with a 50 yard ball coming out of the stratasphere. He adopts to me a halfway house, plays Maynard, small chap, reasonable quick, and then watches as his defenders lump ball and after ball at his head and chest, whilst a giant of a opposition centre back wins another header and so on and so on. Attacking tactics come in all shapes and sizes, just commit to one and select the correct personnel. The question you need to ask is why didn't we remain top of the league or stay in a automatic promotion spot? Getting into the play-off final that season wasn't an acheivement, we went into free-fall, if anything the end to that season was nothing but a disaster, masked and covered up by a very memorable play-off semi final win againt Crystal Palace. It was a massive under-achievement when we were top of the league, as you state, with only 2 months left. In a winner takes all match v Hull City, how many shots on target did we have, how many clear chances did we create............I mean what was he hoping for a 0-0 draw! I like GJ and what he has done to our club. However, this does not mean we or I cannot be critical of his managment style. GJ weakness is without doubt his in ability to get BCFC creating chances and ultimately scoring goals and this is something he HAS to rectify this season should we truly seek a play-off spot etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I hear that said a fair bit. What examples are you thinking about when you say that? A quality striker without an ego is a bit like bread without butter or fish without chips, quiet simply GJ has to at least allow us 1 player who thinks he's better than the rest that's the confidence needed to bang in 20 goals a season. In any team you need a good balance and i'm sure the other 10 players wouldn't give a monkey's if a striker has the odd strop if he's scoring regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookey Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 There is no reason for Gary J to go he is doing a good job which most of us are pleased with. However he has a one real problem, his son Lee J who's continual presence distorts the team and leaves us most of the time with 10 1/2 men on the pitch and I am not referring to his stature. The need to play Lee J means that we are unlikely to sign any midfielder who is likely to threaten his place but the usual whispers will be made about offers to X, Y and Z who for various reasons... There is another ongoing thread about the future of Lee Trundle. Now, I would like to see Lee Trundle given a chance to play in Lee J's place in midfield. He is a better and more creative player, he can score goals from mid-field and his set-pieces would be far more dangerous. He may not be the greatest tackler in the club but neither is Lee J. However this kind of experimentation will never happen because it could work and Lee J may not recover his place in the team and that would be unthinkable to Gary J. Gary J has to grow up as a Manager show he has cojones and if he wishes to keep his son in the squad, because I can't see him being wanted by any other CCC team, treat him the same as any other player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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