Robbored Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Despite everything that GJ has achiveved since he has taken over you still seem to regard him as just another manager (I recall you once referred to him as a 'conference manager'. If it really was a simple case of getting in any old 'capable and talented' manager, why did it take us so long to get out of League One? You're quite happy to measure SL on the scale of chairmans, but you won't do it for GJ with managers, which for me illustrates your underlying contempt for him. Gary Johnson is 'just another manager'. What else is he? At some point he'll move on from City and we'll get another one in. The new bloke may or may not be as successfull as Johnson has been/will be. You are using a powerfull word like 'contempt' to describe my view of Johnson. Well you are far from accurate. I don't hold anyone in comtempt least of all a football manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfred Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Thats a very succinct reply and one that you obviously thought deeply about before replying. Let me simplify it for you. There are lots of capable and talented managers out there and Gary Johnson is not the only manager that could have led the club to better things but imo Steve Landsdown is the only Chairman that could have guided the club to where we are now particularly without getting us into financial shite like Southampton and Charlton have. Every season there are 10 succesfull managers that have led thier team to promotion. Whose to say that any one of them couldn't have done the same job at City that Johnson has done? So employing your logic then, Robbored, what's to say that League Two promotion winner Paul Tisdale wouldn't have won the Premier League with Manchester United last season, if he was their manager? Your lack of respect towards Johnson means that i personally can never take you seriously. Since Johnson has been at the club everything, in my opinion, has improved. The team, the league we're in, the results, the performances (even including last year, which was still far better than under the previous incumbent), the atmosphere at the club, the player and supporter relationships, the way the club feels and emenates far more professionalism than it has done for many a year, certainly since i've been watching them, circa 25years. I could go on. The problem in football and indeed modern day society, is that it has increasingly more common for people to expect success now. No time to build, no gradual and steady progression, no masterplan. Success, and NOW please and if i don't get it i'm going scream and scream until i can scream no more. Personally i can see that Johnson is building a dynasty in tandem with our superb Chairman that will see us in the top flight very soon and playing in a stadium that the supporters have actually had a vary large say in. Where else have you heard of that happening? It may well have done, but i've not heard of it. In short, i don't think Johnson is perfect, but neither do i think the most successful manager in British history, Alex Ferguson, is perfect. Because nobody is. All i can say i have every faith in the guy and he has brought stability and the greatest prospect of success i've ever known. What more could i want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Gary Johnson is 'just another manager'. What else is he? At some point he'll move on from City and we'll get another one in. The new bloke may or may not be as successfull as Johnson has been/will be. Of course he is just another manager, the same as he is just another human at just another football club. Stop trying to divert attention from the fact that any praise you give Johnson is through gritted teeth. Gary Johnson has done and continues to do a fantastic job at this football club. Of course there are other managers who could have done the job, however why is that even an issue, and why would you begrudge Johnson praise because of that? When are you ever happy? Were you happy when we were failing under Tinnion, was Brian just another manager who was failing to push the club on? What would Gary Johnson have to achieve to earn your praise? You're argument doesn't make any sense unless you distant yourself from whether the club is successful or not. Johnson has transformed this club from an underachieving, drinking cultured, stagnant 'sleeping giant' into a Championship force with genuine top flight aspirations. Do you agree with that statement or should Lansdown receive 'all the credit' for our remarkable recent years exploits? Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Why is Steve Lansdown the only chairman who could have seen us progress while Johnson is 'just another manager'? Surely for every '10 successful managers' there are '10 successful chairman'? I'm sure you're a charming man but your sheer pig headedness in avoiding Johnson praise, where it is inescapably due, is infuriating. And one final thought, yes Steve Lansdown has done a wonderful job for this club, his input is invaluable and every Bristol City fan should be eternally grateful for the vision he has for the future of this club, it's just a good job we didn't 'judge him on Brian' wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynshamred Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 So employing your logic then, Robbored, what's to say that League Two promotion winner Paul Tisdale wouldn't have won the Premier League with Manchester United last season, if he was their manager? Your lack of respect towards Johnson means that i personally can never take you seriously. Since Johnson has been at the club everything, in my opinion, has improved. The team, the league we're in, the results, the performances (even including last year, which was still far better than under the previous incumbent), the atmosphere at the club, the player and supporter relationships, the way the club feels and emenates far more professionalism than it has done for many a year, certainly since i've been watching them, circa 25years. I could go on. The problem in football and indeed modern day society, is that it has increasingly more common for people to expect success now. No time to build, no gradual and steady progression, no masterplan. Success, and NOW please and if i don't get it i'm going scream and scream until i can scream no more. Personally i can see that Johnson is building a dynasty in tandem with our superb Chairman that will see us in the top flight very soon and playing in a stadium that the supporters have actually had a vary large say in. Where else have you heard of that happening? It may well have done, but i've not heard of it. In short, i don't think Johnson is perfect, but neither do i think the most successful manager in British history, Alex Ferguson, is perfect. Because nobody is. All i can say i have every faith in the guy and he has brought stability and the greatest prospect of success i've ever known. What more could i want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynshamred Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I totally agree with this post. Robbered i appreciate you have alot of passion for this club but i havent seen anything positive from you. We are not Man united so were bound to have faults. You seem to pick up on them all, just enjoy what the clubs trying to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I'm sorry to see that since I last looked at and posted on this thread yesterday a degree of niggle has crept into what started as a balanced and sensible discussion (something which happens a little too often on the forum and which kept me as a mere watcher rather than a participant for a number of years). Surely this manager v chairman issue comes down to a question of seeing things in perspective? With a very few exceptions, I have always hated seeing managers leave, even when things are not going particularly well, because of the discontinuity and inevitable disruption it tends to cause to the forward momentum of the team and the club as whole. It more often than not means you have to go backwards to go forwards and should be a solution of absolutely last resort. However, the loss of a manager, if it does become unavoidable, is not a complete disaster, in much the same way that you get over the disappointing loss of a valued player. I have already said I would greatly regret it if GJ left, as I along with others on this thread think a long-term partnership between manager and chairman, and a steady, planned approach to development, is the way to take a club of our standing to better things. That said, if we did lose him, you can be fairly sure that there would be a reasonably impressive queue of candidates wanting to talk to the chairman about the vacancy. At the present time, and purely hypothetically, that list might include, say, someone of the stature of Steve Coppell, who I think most fans respect. The point that is being made, and I think in some quarters not taken, is that the same thing does not apply to the chair. Anyone who thinks that the loss of Lansdown would not be a catastrophe of the first magnitude for this club, or that we could simply find a replacement in much the same way you recruit a new manager, is not living in the real world. As a local bloke with a combination of a lifelong love of the club and huge wealth, he is unique. Lose him and we're stuffed, frankly. In terms of the relative importance to the club of these two men, it is simply no contest. If this is all that Robbored means to suggest (and maybe I have read him wrongly) then I fail to see how it can be reasonably contradicted. Have I missed something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I'm sorry to see that since I last looked at and posted on this thread yesterday a degree of niggle has crept into what started as a balanced and sensible discussion (something which happens a little too often on the forum and which kept me as a mere watcher rather than a participant for a number of years). Surely this manager v chairman issue comes down to a question of seeing things in perspective? With a very few exceptions, I have always hated seeing managers leave, even when things are not going particularly well, because of the discontinuity and inevitable disruption it tends to cause to the forward momentum of the team and the club as whole. It more often than not means you have to go backwards to go forwards and should be a solution of absolutely last resort. However, the loss of a manager, if it does become unavoidable, is not a complete disaster, in much the same way that you get over the disappointing loss of a valued player. I have already said I would greatly regret it if GJ left, as I along with others on this thread think a long-term partnership between manager and chairman, and a steady, planned approach to development, is the way to take a club of our standing to better things. That said, if we did lose him, you can be fairly sure that there would be a reasonably impressive queue of candidates wanting to talk to the chairman about the vacancy. At the present time, and purely hypothetically, that list might include, say, someone of the stature of Steve Coppell, who I think most fans respect. The point that is being made, and I think in some quarters not taken, is that the same thing does not apply to the chair. Anyone who thinks that the loss of Lansdown would not be a catastrophe of the first magnitude for this club, or that we could simply find a replacement in much the same way you recruit a new manager, is not living in the real world. As a local bloke with a combination of a lifelong love of the club and huge wealth, he is unique. Lose him and we're stuffed, frankly. In terms of the relative importance to the club of these two men, it is simply no contest. If this is all that Robbored means to suggest (and maybe I have read him wrongly) then I fail to see how it can be reasonably contradicted. Have I missed something here? Yes you have missed something. What he said was that Steve deserves all the credit. He is not prepared to give Gary any of it except in the most grudging terms. He's just another Manager. Apparently anyone could have done it. Though no explanation as to why so many failed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Fair enough, CP. I was trying to give RR the benefit of any doubt, I guess. If that is the argument that's being put forward then it's clearly unfair and not respectful of the manager's achievements, which I hope I have been careful to acknowledge. My apologies and I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Fair enough, CP. I was trying to give RR the benefit of any doubt, I guess. If that is the argument that's being put forward then it's clearly unfair and not respectful of the manager's achievements, which I hope I have been careful to acknowledge. My apologies and I stand corrected. Good of you to apologise but for the life of me I can't see what you have to apologise for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapleHillPhil Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Why does RR have such an issue with GJ? Did he have a pop at RR's beloved supporters club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaloneFM Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Why does RR have such an issue with GJ? Did he have a pop at RR's beloved supporters club? You don't understand the philsophy here KNR. You have only been here a mere 6 years. We represent the ointment a Robinson is a rather industrious fly. He is a man of many opinions. All of them ending in the statement 'I'm right'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 SL promoted the "promote from within ethos" ala Liverpool bootroom. SL allowed Danny Wilson to commute from Chesterfield. SL brought in GJ and GJ showed him what a real manager does. SL could have employed another manager at the time and we could still be sitting in League 1. SL gets a huge amount of credit from learning from his mistakes and for the drive and vision he has for the club and importantly the backing up of his vision with action. GJ should take a lot of credit for City's recent history because as we have seen in the past no normal manager can get success on the field for this club and to believe there are lots of managers who can is not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Whilst I agree with the comments about Steve Lansdown being a very important figure in the rise and rise of our football club, there is one thing that is bugging me. How long has SL been chairman of this club? quite a while longer than GJ has been here, yet the good times only started when GJ arrived... infact, before GJ, the club was literally in turmoil. Stagnant under performers, near the bottom of league one. A shocking team. So, taking robbo's view, that lansdown is solely responisble for this turnaround, how do you explain just how bad we were under his early chairmanship? GJ has been the most important manager this club has had in decades. we are blessed to have such a dedicated and talented manager, unfortunatly people will never be happy until they lose everything that is good about the thing they claim to love. GJ deserves just as much praise and respect as Lansdown, as unlike the time with Lansdown at the club, we have never had a bad period under GJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 He is a man of many opinions. All of them ending in the statement 'I'm right'. legend Malone, Legend. :winner_third_h4h: Bristol Boy was very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 It's all about chemistry, good communication and a shared sense of direction and purpose. GJ and SL seem to be genuinely singing from the same hymn sheet and our club is benefitting in spades. Long may it last. That's why QPR will be underachievers again this season imo. No reflection on Jim Magilton, but his name must be written on the managers door in chalk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 The point that is being made, and I think in some quarters not taken, is that the same thing does not apply to the chair. Anyone who thinks that the loss of Lansdown would not be a catastrophe of the first magnitude for this club, or that we could simply find a replacement in much the same way you recruit a new manager, is not living in the real world. As a local bloke with a combination of a lifelong love of the club and huge wealth, he is unique. Lose him and we're stuffed, frankly. In terms of the relative importance to the club of these two men, it is simply no contest. If this is all that Robbored means to suggest (and maybe I have read him wrongly) then I fail to see how it can be reasonably contradicted. Have I missed something here? No you haven't missed anything. What you have seen on this thread of some users simply not seeing the point being made. Some simply percieve what they want to percieve and others simply twist things to justify critising other posters and by doing so miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 It's all about chemistry, good communication and a shared sense of direction and purpose. GJ and SL seem to be genuinely singing from the same hymn sheet and our club is benefitting in spades. Long may it last. That's why QPR will be underachievers again this season imo. No reflection on Jim Magilton, but his name must be written on the managers door in chalk! I agree entirely. And my response to the earlier post by Tanzley querying how long it took for things to improve under Lansdown would be that these things take time, which is the whole point of this thread on "stability". There was a lot about the club that needed sorting out behind the scenes, much of it to do with the financial side. No-one is suggesting Steve L. is infallible, any more than Johnson is, for that matter. Tinnion's appointment as manager wasn't the chairman's finest hour, for example, and I think he would probably acknowledge with hindsight that it was a misjudgement. But if we're going to find fault with him on that issue we should also give him due credit for subsequently getting it right. In other words, whilst it is of course appropriate to give GJ credit for what has been achieved on the field, don't forget who recruited him. It comes down in the end to getting the right people working together and then hanging on to them, as Welly says. My only qualification as regards this secondary issue about the relative contributions of the two men (and I know I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record here) is that whilst nobody wants to lose GJ, if we had to find another manager we would. I defy anybody to tell me where we'd find another Lansdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 No you haven't missed anything. What you have seen on this thread of some users simply not seeing the point being made. Some simply percieve what they want to percieve and others simply twist things to justify critising other posters and by doing so miss the point. Well, that's one for and one against. Chinapig says I have missed something, and you assure me I haven't, RR. I'm new at this game. I think I'd better leave you guys to sort this one out between you. All good fun and interesting stuff, though, and no offence offered or taken, I trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I agree entirely. And my response to the earlier post by Tanzley querying how long it took for things to improve under Lansdown would be that these things take time, which is the whole point of this thread on "stability". There was a lot about the club that needed sorting out behind the scenes, much of it to do with the financial side. No-one is suggesting Steve L. is infallible, any more than Johnson is, for that matter. Tinnion's appointment as manager wasn't the chairman's finest hour, for example, and I think he would probably acknowledge with hindsight that it was a misjudgement. But if we're going to find fault with him on that issue we should also give him due credit for subsequently getting it right. In other words, whilst it is of course appropriate to give GJ credit for what has been achieved on the field, don't forget who recruited him. It comes down in the end to getting the right people working together and then hanging on to them, as Welly says. My only qualification as regards this secondary issue about the relative contributions of the two men (and I know I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record here) is that whilst nobody wants to lose GJ, if we had to find another manager we would. I defy anybody to tell me where we'd find another Lansdown. Fella, I have to agree with you. It does take time. My post was mainly aimed at people who disregard Johnson's contribution to the club so calously, there is no doubting that we have the best chairman in the football league, but there is also little doubt that we have one of the most talented managers in the country too. people who are so hell bent on not giving him praise are the only epople who won't see that. to give SL "all credit" is ridiculous as Lansdown has made more mistakes than Johnson. that is all to answer your last point. There are probably plenty of people who could do the job Mr Lansdown does, but don't have £50m to spend on a football club Just like there are plenty of people who could get City to the Premier League as quick if not quicker than GJ will, but they are not going to be attracted here are they? GJ is the best manager we have had, and are ever likely to have. His record speaks for itself. he has had nothing but success in the game, and will continue to build our club from the bottom. The man may not have the most glamourous ideology, and may not give us the perfect passing game we strive for, but one thing he will give us is the continued progression to what this city requires. Premier League football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Trying to say which of SL or GJ is more important is an impossible task. In any case, what is more important is that they form a great team together. SL was the chairman who supported Danny Wilson and appointed Brian tinnion, so he is not infallible. On a similar basis, GJ has made mistakes in some his decisions during his time here so he is not perfect either. However, I think that GJ was the right man to make the tough decisions necessary when he first came came in to change the mentaility at the club, and I think Sl recognised that. I also think that they both share the same vision for the club going forward, and in that respect I feel that SL trusts GL's judgement on the playing side, and GJ knows that he will have the chairman's support in the transfer market. Ther strength of the club over the next 2/3 years will be built on the relationship between manager and chairman, not either one of them on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynshamred Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 great post. Exactly why i posted the original subject. Its a team thing with the manager.the chairman and our team that performs on a matchday. You support city you support everyone from chairman manager and pie seller! This is our club be proud of the whole club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 This is getting a bit boring now. Have we nothing better to do in the close season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 This is getting a bit boring now. Have we nothing better to do in the close season? Its a discussion :noexpression: Or would you prefer to go back to the usual dirge? that LJ, he's garbage isnt he? and they should shut the eastend cos of the yobs, oh and erm... don't build the stadium, ermmm Holloway is a legend. :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 LJ, he's garbage isnt he? and they should shut the eastend cos of the yobs, oh and erm... don't build the stadium, ermmm Holloway is a legend. Blimey - those are controversial views...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Blimey - those are controversial views...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 What point is it that I/we are missing? Go to post 36 and take a look, particularly the last paragraph and you'll see the point I'm making but much more succictly made than I managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I totally agree with this post. Robbered i appreciate you have alot of passion for this club but i havent seen anything positive from you. We are not Man united so were bound to have faults. You seem to pick up on them all, just enjoy what the clubs trying to achieve. this was post 35 so what you're saying is, you agree that you're a negative bugger? and that you pick up on every fault this club has. well, see i disagree, you only seem to pick up on GJ's faults.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 great post. Exactly why i posted the original subject. Its a team thing with the manager.the chairman and our team that performs on a matchday. You support city you support everyone from chairman manager and pie seller! This is our club be proud of the whole club. This is our club and there will never be any other for me. That dosent mean we are not allowed opinions on team selection,players,brought in or let go. There would be no point of there being a forum if everyone agreed on everything. The squad is off on their holiday training camp, Weds and begin there pre season games next Monday. Home form was worring last season; unproven in this league, players have been brought in so far to replace proven ones. More talent is on the way but we`ll see. I`ll make every effort to get to Preston and support whoever turns out for us, but next season is critical and we must consolidate our position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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