Stability At Bcfc

[keynshamred]

ive supported this team for a number of years through thick and thin like alot of people on this forum. Like Alex Ferguson I'm just happy that Johnson is getting the backing from this club of not only a long contract but the transfer funding available to him. Also the long term plan of getting the youth system up together,Which can be be the long term future of this club.Whats the use of change, does the club no favours at all.

I just think managers need time to get the club right. Steve landsdown also deserves alot of credit for backing our manager ,it takes alot for a chairman to be that bold and give a manager a long term contract these days.He knows his football and he's backed johnson 100% in the football side of the club,he should also be respected! I just think we should all get behind this club and trust what gj is doing.

We'll never get anywhere moaning all the time about what Johnsons doing in the transfer market. His record at CITY so far is the best in years.Completely commited and a total passion in what he's trying to achieve.In my opinion i think he's been fantastic for this club. Moaning is the easiest option makes people feel better about there own lifes!! Just enjoy the future of BCFC!!

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

The fact this this post has no replies means its a sensible, well written piece. You should be banned from the forum!

I agree with you totally.

Two words that stick in my head from the GJ interview the other day are GRADUALLY and PROFESSIONALLY.

GJ and SL are building this club to have a great future, a future that we will survive in!

If it takes 5 more years to get to the Premier League and we have a safe future, then so be it.

Yes we all want to be in it this year, but then so 23 other teams.

I want my grand kids to be supportting city and their kids too, and if that means I have to be patient in order to wait for the success, then bring it on!

Top half of the championship or struggling at the bottom of league one...........

Having city the way they are and run or the way Cardiff, Newcastle, Swindle, Leeds are run, its a No Brainer!!

GRADUALLY and PROFESSIONALLY...... that will do for me!

The future under GJ & SL is bright, lets not destroy it.

[leylandsroad]

The fact this this post has no replies means its a sensible, well written piece. You should be banned from the forum!

The fact that this has no rpelies may also be because it was posted late of a friday night.

I for one have already bought my 5 seasons tickets for next season, !

However I have serious doubts that the current squad will survive next season never mind push up the table.

Personally, I see no need for a new stadium , I love Ashton Gate and lets be honest we didn't sell out once last season so why the need for a bigger ground ?

Furthermore, where is the much needed invesment in the team ? a second rate GK, a youngster who has had more clubs than Jack Nicholas and a centre forward who may be ok.

I'd rather Mr Lansdown invested his money in top players, the gate would then sell out every week and we could go forward.

Last season was to be honest fairly boring and unadventurous at times, home performances were not great and it's no wonder there was a huge drop if ST sales. Yes 10,000 is still excellent but I would expect 30% of those were freebies as part of the family deal (which I took advange off) and with match day prices not dropping that means income will have dropped dramatically.

A new stadium is a disaster waiting to happen in the current climate, and team investment would be far better.

Has anyone got excited about ANY of the new signings ? if we are not careful next season could be tougher than tough.

The team needs atleast 5 news players and we are running out of time.

[22A]

If it takes 5 more years to get to the Premier League and we have a safe future, then so be it.

I want my grand kids to be supportting city and their kids too, and if that means I have to be patient in order to wait for the success, then bring it on!

I'll go along with that. Especially the safe future bit.

August 76 winning at Arsenal to go top of Div 1; just over six years later losing at Hartlepool to go bottom of Div 4. Since City nearly folded in October 81, quite a few other clubs have come close to folding. In Scotland Gretna lost their money man and the club died even though it was in the SPL at the time. Not that long ago City were playing Rushden in League 1. OK we've come up, but their money man left and they are several leagues lower now. Scarborough have folded. The way some clubs are run makes me doubt we'll have 72 full time teams in the Football League when England hosts the 2018 World Cup.

Quoting leylandsroad; "A new stadium is a disaster waiting to happen in the current climate, and team investment would be far better". I understand your view point and doubt the club under the current Chairman & board, would start work unless the funding was in place. I remember in the early 70s City fans saying "A few years ago we spent a quarter of a million on a new stand. It's not scored a single goal yet". We currently rarely sell out AG, but when City win promotion, it'll not be big enough and in the meantime, if it can attract non football activities such as concerts, banquetting, conferences etc; I like to think some at least of that money would then be available for the team.

[Nibor]

Personally, I see no need for a new stadium , I love Ashton Gate and lets be honest we didn't sell out once last season so why the need for a bigger ground ?

Furthermore, where is the much needed invesment in the team ? a second rate GK, a youngster who has had more clubs than Jack Nicholas and a centre forward who may be ok.

I'd rather Mr Lansdown invested his money in top players, the gate would then sell out every week and we could go forward.

That's a completely illogical point of view.

The new stadium will double or triple our revenue as we make money on the other 6 days a week.

That money will fund sustainable investment in the football club.

Chucking massive money at players and the wage bill is stupid and unsustainable, that's how clubs get ruined. We invest but we don't over stretch.

We might not have technically sold out most of last season but we were very capacity limited with mostly single seats left and away tickets not sold.

[Robbored]

Steve Lansdown is the man who deserves all the credit. Without him at the helm there would still be no stability at the club. The clubs finances would almost certainly be in a mess and City would probably still be trying to get out of the third division. There would be no sign of a new stadium either.

Gary Johnson came to City to take care of the playing side and so far Johnson has done a decent enough job but remember who brought him to AG.

Managers/players come and go but the one constant apart from the fans in recent years has been Steve Lansdown. I would be far more concerned for Bristol City if Lansdown moved on than I would be if Gary Johnson did the same.

[chinapig]

Steve Lansdown is the man who deserves all the credit. Without him at the helm there would still be no stability at the club. The clubs finances would almost certainly be in a mess and City would probably still be trying to get out of the third division. There would be no sign of a new stadium either.

Gary Johnson came to City to take care of the playing side and so far Johnson has done a decent enough job but remember who brought him to AG.

Managers/players come and go but the one constant apart from the fans in recent years has been Steve Lansdown. I would be far more concerned for Bristol City if Lansdown moved on than I would be if Gary Johnson did the same.

Your disdain for Gary Johnson leads you to overstate a good case. Of course Steve is the primary mover and losing him would be worse than losing any Manager or player, but the implication of your argument is that any old Manager would have done the same. We had any old manager in Danny Wilson who could not achieve what Gary Johnson has with a much bigger budget. We have just spent on Clarkson what he spent on Peacock years ago for instance. He presided over a shambolic, unprofessional regime of underachieving wasters who squandered their talent. Johnson introduced an entirely different ethos and gained promotion with a squad that was on paper weaker and certainly cheaper. Kudos to Steve for bringing him in (against some opposition btw) but the key is their partnership. Each would achieve less without the other. Long may they reign.

[grifty]

We have just spent on Clarkson what he spent on Peacock years ago for instance.

Regardless of Peacocks off the field activities, he still scored 63 goals for us. for a striker to score that amount of goals at one club is very good.

[bully]

Steve Lansdown is the man who deserves all the credit. Without him at the helm there would still be no stability at the club. The clubs finances would almost certainly be in a mess and City would probably still be trying to get out of the third division. There would be no sign of a new stadium either.

Gary Johnson came to City to take care of the playing side and so far Johnson has done a decent enough job but remember who brought him to AG.

Managers/players come and go but the one constant apart from the fans in recent years has been Steve Lansdown. I would be far more concerned for Bristol City if Lansdown moved on than I would be if Gary Johnson did the same.

Picking up on Chinapig's reply to the post above, I don't think you showed disdain for GJ - just stating the obvious.

Problem is, to some people unless you constantly praise the man, even saying he's done a decent job isn't good enough.

Danny Wilson ballsed it up at the end that's true, but Nigel Adkins got S****horpe out of league 1 twice on a shoestring in competition with much bigger clubs so even mere mortals can pull it off.

SL is the man and long may he reign! - if he's happy with his manager then that's all that matters after all.

[chinapig]

Picking up on Chinapig's reply to the post above, I don't think you showed disdain for GJ - just stating the obvious.

Problem is, to some people unless you constantly praise the man, even saying he's done a decent job isn't good enough.

Danny Wilson ballsed it up at the end that's true, but Nigel Adkins got S****horpe out of league 1 twice on a shoestring in competition with much bigger clubs so even mere mortals can pull it off.

SL is the man and long may he reign! - if he's happy with his manager then that's all that matters after all.

I think Robbo has been pretty clear about his opinion of Gary Johnson before. He's entitled to that view but the phrase "decent enough job" seems pretty disdainful in respect of one of the most successful (so far) Managers our modern era. Sure other Managers have got promotion. I would mention Simon Grayson too. My point was that the implication was that any Manager would have done which is palpably not the case when you look at Wilson's record with much more money.

[chinapig]

Regardless of Peacocks off the field activities, he still scored 63 goals for us. for a striker to score that amount of goals at one club is very good.

Indeed. My point was about Wilson's expenditure (high for League 1) and the failure to turn that into promotion. What would £600k then translate into in the transfer market now? And why did Peacock not reach the higher level he surely could have (as evidence by Man City buying him)?

[bully]

I think Robbo has been pretty clear about his opinion of Gary Johnson before. He's entitled to that view but the phrase "decent enough job" seems pretty disdainful in respect of one of the most successful (so far) Managers our modern era. Sure other Managers have got promotion. I would mention Simon Grayson too. My point was that the implication was that any Manager would have done which is palpably not the case when you look at Wilson's record with much more money.

We aren't too far apart to be honest - I tend to think that GJ is a bit over rated and I don't like his persona (like he gives a s**t about that!) but he did what others before him failed to do which is get us up and keep us there for which he deserves credit.

I think that GJ needs to up his game this season though, because like a player, you can't live off past acheivements ad infinitum.

That doesn't mean promotion incidentally - just progress.

[bully]

Indeed. My point was about Wilson's expenditure (high for League 1) and the failure to turn that into promotion. What would £600k then translate into in the transfer market now? And why did Peacock not reach the higher level he surely could have (as evidence by Man City buying him)?

I liked Danny Wilson, but he let us down at the end so had to go - he certainly had the support of the board when he was here though so shouldn't have had any complaints.

I think Peacock suffered from injuries a fair bit but I liked him to be honest - not sure what £600k would be in todays market but maybe equivalent to the £1m paid for a league 1 player, Lee Trundle?

Thats not a dig at LT before anyone starts crashing the keyboards because players don't determine their own value in transfers.

[Bounce Around the Ground]

Completely agree with the first post, we're very lucky to have GJ and SL!

[chinapig]

I liked Danny Wilson, but he let us down at the end so had to go - he certainly had the support of the board when he was here though so shouldn't have had any complaints.

I think Peacock suffered from injuries a fair bit but I liked him to be honest - not sure what £600k would be in todays market but maybe equivalent to the £1m paid for a league 1 player, Lee Trundle?

Thats not a dig at LT before anyone starts crashing the keyboards because players don't determine their own value in transfers.

My point wasn't about the merits of Peacock as a player, though I maintain he would have achieved more in a more professional environment, but that the level of expenditure was very high for a Lge 1 club at the time. With hyper-inflation in the trasnfer market I suspect the equivalent would be much more than £1m now, and was spent by a Lge 1 club in financial trouble.

[Robbored]

Your disdain for Gary Johnson leads you to overstate a good case.

Disdain is too strong a word.

Gary Johnson is Bristol City manager. There have been many City managers before him and no doubt there will many others after him. Most managers are itinerates by the very nature of their work.

If Lansdown hadn't brought in Johnson he would have brought someone else after Tinnion stood down. We can only speculate as to who that might have been and what kind of job they would have done. There are plenty of managers who could have achieved what Johnson has at City and thats my point.

Not many Chairmen would have turned City around like Steve Lansdown has.

[bully]

My point wasn't about the merits of Peacock as a player, though I maintain he would have achieved more in a more professional environment, but that the level of expenditure was very high for a Lge 1 club at the time. With hyper-inflation in the trasnfer market I suspect the equivalent would be much more than £1m now, and was spent by a Lge 1 club in financial trouble.

Point taken - I think though that a manager asks and doesn't always get transfer monies and like players, they aren't concerned about the accounts.

No idea if GJ has ever gone into SL's office and asked for money and been knocked back but we know it happens all over the place.

Most people were pretty excited about signing Peacock as I recall and the amount spent was regarded as a declaration of intent at the time.

More sensible times now of course although spending £2m on Nicky Maynard was a bit ambitious.

[fka dagest]

Your disdain for Gary Johnson leads you to overstate a good case. Of course Steve is the primary mover and losing him would be worse than losing any Manager or player, but the implication of your argument is that any old Manager would have done the same. We had any old manager in Danny Wilson who could not achieve what Gary Johnson has with a much bigger budget. We have just spent on Clarkson what he spent on Peacock years ago for instance. He presided over a shambolic, unprofessional regime of underachieving wasters who squandered their talent. Johnson introduced an entirely different ethos and gained promotion with a squad that was on paper weaker and certainly cheaper. Kudos to Steve for bringing him in (against some opposition btw) but the key is their partnership. Each would achieve less without the other. Long may they reign.

You're quite right about the Sage. Reading each of his posts individually, might not lead anyone to pick up on any particular criticism, but read collectively (over the years) it quite clear Robbo has no time for Gary Johnson, hence his statement Lansdown desevers 'all the credit', by which is also meant GJ deserves none.

Given his flirtation with the Blues in the past, I really wonder if he's supporting the right team.

Anyway, in general, there's a great deal that is right about this club at the moment and as has been said before, some people are only happy when they're moaning.

[CliftonCliff]

An interesting debate, this one. I have been watching the forum for quite a long time now, but am new as a contributor. I always find Chinapig's posts thoughtful and balanced.

He is absolutely right about the generation of players who were around at the end of Danny Wilson's stint and during Tinnion's time as manager. There were some very gifted footballer's among them who had reason to be grateful to the club and its academy for nurturing them, but instead chose to p**s their talent up the wall - quite literally in several cases - and to undermine the managers they played under. There are a few honourable exceptions (I would exclude Matt Hill from this group, for instance), but look where Danny Coles, Tommy Doherty and Aaron Brown have ended up, to name a few.

It's a long while ago now, but collectively they let the club and supporters down badly in my opinion and I can still get quite angry about it in retrospect, even at this distance in time. They also screwed up there own careers in the process: Coles looked an outstanding young defender at one stage; what Tommy might have achieved if he'd ever been remotely fit and had adopted a professional attitude to looking after himself off the field is anyone's guess.

Johnson is justly credited with eliminating the culture that these players were guilty of cultivating, but I think it should not be forgotten that, as Chinapig indicates, Danny Wilson was culpable in allowing it to develop in the first place. He might have added that the very difficult process of rooting out the lack of professionalism was, in fact, started by the much-maligned Tinnion, who stood up to (and I think I'm right in saying ultimately got rid of) both Coles and Tommy.

As to the present day, I again agree that Johnson deserves huge credit for getting us out of that League after nearly a decade of others trying and falling short despite having access to greater resources, and for what's been achieved since. I have to own up, though, to the fact that I have had mixed feelings about him from day one and, whilst I give him every respect for what he's done, his methods do worry me sometimes. I might expand on that another time: to do so now would result in this post starting to resemble War And Peace.

What I would add is this. I have long had my own little private, simple mantra regarding football, which is this.

If you want to know how we're likely to get on in the next game, look in the dressing room.

If you want to know where we'll finish at the end of the season, look for the answer in the manager's office.

But, if you want to know where the club's going to be in five years, you'd better look in the boardroom, and in particular at who occupies the chairman's office.

Short to mid-term, I'm not sure. Long term, I am very, very hopeful. Steve Lansdown is far and away the best chairman the club has had in my time (which goes back to Harry Dolman, by the way) and the most important figure in all this, by a mile.

I will wager one other, final thing. I would not want Johnson to leave at this point and agree the that the partnership between him and the chairman is central to what we are trying to achieve. However, he has a five year contract. I don't as a rule gamble, but if I were to bet, I would say he will not be here to see the end of it. I wonder what others think about that question?

[chinapig]

Disdain is too strong a word.

Gary Johnson is Bristol City manager. There have been many City managers before him and no doubt there will many others after him. Most managers are itinerates by the very nature of their work.

If Lansdown hadn't brought in Johnson he would have brought someone else after Tinnion stood down. We can only speculate as to who that might have been and what kind of job they would have done. There are plenty of managers who could have achieved what Johnson has at City and thats my point.

Not many Chairmen would have turned City around like Steve Lansdown has.

Accepted and withdrawn.

Your general point is of course correct. Of course they are transient, but good ones come too rarely and leave too soon (Joe Jordan, John Ward). If we lost Gary there is no guarantee his successor would work as well with Steve, even if he was the kind of big name people so often crave when it comes to players and was popular because he did what the fans wanted rather than backing his judgement. Plenty of Managers could have done it you say. So why didn't they? Perhaps because it is that easy after all?

[bully]

An interesting debate, this one. I have been watching the forum for quite a long time now, but am new as a contributor. I always find Chinapig's posts thoughtful and balanced.

He is absolutely right about the generation of players who were around at the end of Danny Wilson's stint and during Tinnion's time as manager. There were some very gifted footballer's among them who had reason to be grateful to the club and its academy for nurturing them, but instead chose to p**s their talent up the wall - quite literally in several cases - and to undermine the managers they played under. There are a few honourable exceptions (I would exclude Matt Hill from this group, for instance), but look where Danny Coles, Tommy Doherty and Aaron Brown have ended up, to name a few.

It's a long while ago now, but collectively they let the club and supporters down badly in my opinion and I can still get quite angry about it in retrospect, even at this distance in time. They also screwed up there own careers in the process: Coles looked an outstanding young defender at one stage; what Tommy might have achieved if he'd ever been remotely fit and had adopted a professional attitude to looking after himself off the field is anyone's guess.

Johnson is justly credited with eliminating the culture that these players were guilty of cultivating, but I think it should not be forgotten that, as Chinapig indicates, Danny Wilson was culpable in allowing it to develop in the first place. He might have added that the very difficult process of rooting out the lack of professionalism was, in fact, started by the much-maligned Tinnion, who stood up to (and I think I'm right in saying ultimately got rid of) both Coles and Tommy.

As to the present day, I again agree that Johnson deserves huge credit for getting us out of that League after nearly a decade of others trying and falling short despite having access to greater resources, and for what's been achieved since. I have to own up, though, to the fact that I have had mixed feelings about him from day one and, whilst I give him every respect for what he's done, his methods do worry me sometimes. I might expand on that another time: to do so now would result in this post starting to resemble War And Peace.

What I would add is this. I have long had my own little private, simple mantra regarding football, which is this.

If you want to know how we're likely to get on in the next game, look in the dressing room.

If you want to know where we'll finish at the end of the season, look for the answer in the manager's office.

But, if you want to know where the club's going to be in five years, you'd better look in the boardroom, and in particular at who occupies the chairman's office.

Short to mid-term, I'm not sure. Long term, I am very, very hopeful. Steve Lansdown is far and away the best chairman the club has had in my time (which goes back to Harry Dolman, by the way) and the most important figure in all this, by a mile.

I will wager one other, final thing. I would not want Johnson to leave at this point and agree the that the partnership between him and the chairman is central to what we are trying to achieve. However, he has a five year contract. I don't as a rule gamble, but if I were to bet, I would say he will not be here to see the end of it. I wonder what others think about that question?

I think all the players you referred to progressed their careers by moving to Championship clubs and no-one should blame them for trying to cash in on their abilities.

Coles, Doherty and Brown all picked up bad injuries from which they never really recovered.

Of that era Matty Hill, Louis Carey and Scot Murray also moved on to better things, as did Lee Peacock, Leroy Lita and Liam Rosenior.

Point being, we had a team full of Championship players, many locally produced but the manager of the time ultimately couldn't get the best out of them - and perhaps didn't instil the right amount of professionalism.

I agree that the chairman is the most important figure in the club and in terms of GJ, I think that he will still be here in 4 years time if we remain a mid table outfit in this league .

If we become a top side again and he gets the same level of exposure as in 07/08 however, then maybe a 'bigger' club will come calling and like almost every other manager he will be off because once they ask to go, a chairman doesn't want then around.

Its called ambition, and I wouldn't blame GJ for seeking to better himself if it happened.

If the unthinkable happens and we go down, then he should be sacked and SL can afford to write off the cost because (I think) most fans would demand it.

I don't think the worst case scenario will happen incidentally, and like you i'm optimistic in the longer term.

[fka dagest]

Disdain is too strong a word.

Gary Johnson is Bristol City manager. There have been many City managers before him and no doubt there will many others after him. Most managers are itinerates by the very nature of their work.

If Lansdown hadn't brought in Johnson he would have brought someone else after Tinnion stood down. We can only speculate as to who that might have been and what kind of job they would have done. There are plenty of managers who could have achieved what Johnson has at City and thats my point.

Not many Chairmen would have turned City around like Steve Lansdown has.

That's why your point is rubbish.

[keynshamred]

Some very good posts and opinions on this subject to date,but all i say about giving Johnson time is its obviously a long term plan. Getting the youth players with the ability of championship players and above into the way Johnson wants to play the game. Always giving 100% which is what us fans want to see. People who get on the managers back are doing this club no favours it really pi.... me off. At the end of the day all the previous managers in the last few years have failed and some fans have very short memories. We have now got a group of people running this club who really care and are working very hard to take us to the next level,if johhnson reads some of the tosh written on here i wouldnt blame him if he took the next job he gets offered. Moan over!

[grifty]

There is nothing wrong with not being totally happy with the club and the way it is run, because it can always be run better.

It's all well and good saying look where we were 3 years ago, but at the end of the day we need to look to the future and where we're going to be in 3 years time.

I'd go as far as saying we are just about sneaking into the bottom rung of established championship teams as I believe we are better than enough teams to relatively easily compete mid table.

We all would love big named players to join and deep down when a player is announced and no-one really knows much about him, there is a 'sense of disappointment', but to run a club properly you can't go spending high transfers and high wages unless you're top end of the prem.

We need to take the optimism and pessimism ratehr than one or the other and enjoy championship life for the next 3 or so years. (Hopefully)

I'd also go as far as there are only 3 or 4 teams in the entire football league who has a future as bright as ours...

[CliftonCliff]

I think all the players you referred to progressed their careers by moving to Championship clubs and no-one should blame them for trying to cash in on their abilities.

Coles, Doherty and Brown all picked up bad injuries from which they never really recovered.

Of that era Matty Hill, Louis Carey and Scot Murray also moved on to better things, as did Lee Peacock, Leroy Lita and Liam Rosenior.

Point being, we had a team full of Championship players, many locally produced but the manager of the time ultimately couldn't get the best out of them - and perhaps didn't instil the right amount of professionalism.

I agree that the chairman is the most important figure in the club and in terms of GJ, I think that he will still be here in 4 years time if we remain a mid table outfit in this league .

If we become a top side again and he gets the same level of exposure as in 07/08 however, then maybe a 'bigger' club will come calling and like almost every other manager he will be off because once they ask to go, a chairman doesn't want then around.

Its called ambition, and I wouldn't blame GJ for seeking to better himself if it happened.

If the unthinkable happens and we go down, then he should be sacked and SL can afford to write off the cost because (I think) most fans would demand it.

I don't think the worst case scenario will happen incidentally, and like you i'm optimistic in the longer term.

I don't think we disagree fundamentally about any of this, Bully. I totally accept your point that players should try to make the most of what is a relatively brief career and would never blame anyone for moving on to better things, even though one is always disappointed to see good players leave, especially if they're home-grown academy products. Much the same applies to managers.

My point was, in part, that Tommy and Danny didn't so much choose to leave as get shown the door, for reasons already stated, or at least that was my very strong impression at the time. Tommy, in particular, a Bedminster boy (like myself) through and through, was, I think, reluctant to leave. I absolutely loved the guy as a player and was as gutted as he was when he went, but I would have to say that in the end I thought Tinnion was right to let him go. On the field he would run through brick walls if you asked him to, but off it he had become a disruptive element and as captain did not set the sort of example you want to show younger guys coming up through the ranks, as he had done himself.

I would also question whether the players mentioned really did advance their careers despite moving to higher placed clubs. None of them made much impression at that level, though they undoubtedly had the talent, and although I acknowledge the part that serious injury played in that, I very much doubt that's the only or even the most important factor. Plenty of players sustain bad injuries and resume their playing careers successfully after recovery. These guys didn't just take their talent with them when they went: they took their attitudes, as well, which has a lot to do with why they now play their football at Rovers, Wycombe and Lincoln.

Anyway, it's history now. The main thing is, as you say, the club has a bright long term future under this chairman, especially if the new stadium can get past our neanderthal council and doesn't suffer the same fate as the Centre For The Performing Arts (remember that?) or the Arena. Onward and upward - though maybe more slowly than some people with a short attention span would like...

[Robbored]

That's why your point is rubbish.

Thats a very succinct reply and one that you obviously thought deeply about before replying.

Let me simplify it for you.

There are lots of capable and talented managers out there and Gary Johnson is not the only manager that could have led the club to better things but imo Steve Landsdown is the only Chairman that could have guided the club to where we are now particularly without getting us into financial shite like Southampton and Charlton have.

Every season there are 10 succesfull managers that have led thier team to promotion. Whose to say that any one of them couldn't have done the same job at City that Johnson has done?

[CliftonCliff]

Thats a very succinct reply and one that you obviously thought deeply about before replying.

Let me simplify it for you.

There are lots of capable and talented managers out there and Gary Johnson is not the only manager that could have led the club to better things but imo Steve Landsdown is the only Chairman that could have guided the club to where we are now particularly without getting us into financial shite like Southampton and Charlton have.

Every season there are 10 succesfull managers that have led thier team to promotion. Whose to say that any one of them couldn't have done the same job at City that Johnson has done?

Perhaps I might be permitted to simplify it still further? If you look at an earlier post of mine, you will see I was saying something essentially very similar to you, Robbered, which is that when you're considering the long term future of the club, the chairman is far and away the most crucial part of the jigsaw.

Good managers are not easy to find, and if you've got one, you try and hang on to him, but ultimately if push comes to shove, they are replacable. Steve Lansdown is a one-off and totally irreplacable - end of, as they say.

[fka dagest]

Thats a very succinct reply and one that you obviously thought deeply about before replying.

Let me simplify it for you.

There are lots of capable and talented managers out there and Gary Johnson is not the only manager that could have led the club to better things but imo Steve Landsdown is the only Chairman that could have guided the club to where we are now particularly without getting us into financial shite like Southampton and Charlton have.

Every season there are 10 succesfull managers that have led thier team to promotion. Whose to say that any one of them couldn't have done the same job at City that Johnson has done?

Thank you for your simplification, it can't be easy having to parley with mere mortals.

Regardless, who are you thinking of when you refer to the 'lots of capable and talented managers'? And who would have been realistic at the time and in the circumstances? Of course, there are 10 succesful managers every season, but how many of those managers build on their successes year after year? Most have one or two good seasons and then lose it. I'm thinking of people like Dowie, Boothroyd, Cotterill, Adams and many others. Although you loathe to admit it, GJ has built succesfully season after season. There are very few managers in this country who can look at the last 10 years and claim so many successes and so few failures.

Despite everything that GJ has achiveved since he has taken over you still seem to regard him as just another manager (I recall you once referred to him as a 'conference manager'. If it really was a simple case of getting in any old 'capable and talented' manager, why did it take us so long to get out of League One?

You're quite happy to measure SL on the scale of chairmans, but you won't do it for GJ with managers, which for me illustrates your underlying contempt for him.

[redsapper]

After taking the time to read all of the posts I think that we should look to our history in building a team over time and not pay over the odds for a "Big Name" which some have been calling for. Like in the 70's we are building slow with a aim of getting into the top flight. It was only when we got there we over spent and it nearly sent us to the wall.

Most top flight clubs let players go like Lee Martin but we need to be a club where these players want to come and play due to giving them a chance and improving them. Only when this becomes the norm will we be able to push in the promotion spots.

As for a new ground I believe that this is now the time as a move to it with the right backing and it happening at the same time as us getting promotion would genarate the tickets sales we will need to compete and stay in that league.

I respect all of the views that have been posted as we all think in differnt ways but at the end of the day we all must want our club to play as high as possible and compete year on year. This can only be achived in two ways

1, Have somebody come in with stupid money.

2, Or the way what we are going. Build slowly be ready when we get there.

[CliftonCliff]

After taking the time to read all of the posts I think that we should look to our history in building a team over time and not pay over the odds for a "Big Name" which some have been calling for. Like in the 70's we are building slow with a aim of getting into the top flight. It was only when we got there we over spent and it nearly sent us to the wall.

Most top flight clubs let players go like Lee Martin but we need to be a club where these players want to come and play due to giving them a chance and improving them. Only when this becomes the norm will we be able to push in the promotion spots.

As for a new ground I believe that this is now the time as a move to it with the right backing and it happening at the same time as us getting promotion would genarate the tickets sales we will need to compete and stay in that league.

I respect all of the views that have been posted as we all think in differnt ways but at the end of the day we all must want our club to play as high as possible and compete year on year. This can only be achived in two ways

1, Have somebody come in with stupid money.

2, Or the way what we are going. Build slowly be ready when we get there.

Eminently sensible, sapper. Spot on in my book. Well said.