If There Was An Election Tomorrow

[Nibor]

do you think any heads rolled regarding the botched NHS computer system?

Haha, not a chance. Instead they handed the job of fixing the government's shitty record on IT projects to Dr Martin Read, ex-Logica CEO. Very much "set a thief to catch a thief" - he's been ripping off the government handily for years.

He also knows **** all about IT projects or technology but just talks a good talk with the city boys.

[Robbored]

We need public sector cuts and pay freezes. But in the right areas - management and bureaucrats not the front lines, and coupled with improving efficiency of the public sector.

We need doctors diagnosing and treating, not doing paperwork, we need the police catching and locking up criminals not persecuting drivers, and we need teachers actually imparting knowledge not striving for league table success in meaningless tests.

That means less randomly thought up reactive central targets that do not achieve what they are supposed to, less oversight bodies and inspections, less pointless process and more personal authority and responsibility in the hands of the real experts. The public sector needs leadership from a small number of professionals with long, meaningful hands-on experience in their domains, not management from a whole layer of idiots with experience of nothing but desk work and avoiding the sack.

Now, sadly I don't think there's any party that will achieve that. The Tories will cut the wrong things. Labour won't cut anything meaningful. The Lib Dems would just fail to understand the concept and put income tax up more. There's not a whole lot of choice.

I can tell you that very skilled clinicians in the NHS are spending at least a day week on admin and in putting data. Most of the secretarial staff are tied up also with data inputting all designed to measure and reach 'targets' set by the mysterious 'commisionsers'. Consequently the clinicians see less patients and waiting lists (also subject to data) are massaged to look less lengthy. The NHS is too large an animal and the obsession with value for money is affecting patient care.

As for IT - we are now on our third system inside 3 years.

[Nibor]

I can tell you that very skilled clinicians in the NHS are spending at least a day week on admin and in putting data. Most of the secretarial staff are tied up also with data inputting all designed to measure and reach 'targets' set by the mysterious 'commisionsers'. Consequently the clinicians see less patients and waiting lists (also subject to data) are massaged to look less lengthy. The NHS is too large an animal and the obsession with value for money is affecting patient care.

As for IT - we are now on our third system inside 3 years.

It's not the obsession with value for money, it's the utterly misguided way they've tried to get it.

When you're a middle management no mark who contributes nothing to the bottom line (in the NHS - patient care) you have to justify your position.

You can do that by inventing targets and hitting them (reduce waiting times for operations by allowing less people to qualify for them), orby starting initiatives like "leveraging procurement to streamline our vital support services" (contracting out cleaning) and "promoting best practise in patient care through feedback" (surveys and spreadsheets).

In an organisation of significant size (> 100 people) it's extremely easy to hide. Just avoid making a decision, disagreeing with anyone, or taking responsibility and you will be impossible to sack except through no blame role redundancy with a nice pay off. Shit, you'll probably get promoted first.

New labour utterly failed to learn the only lesson Thatcher taught us worth learning. You get EXACTLY what you target for.

[leobcfc1]

You can expect the same from Labour. Alcohol is the new tobacco.

How can mankind cope with such a disastrous prospect!

[Mr Mosquito]

I feel rather diffident about commenting on contemporary U.K.politics, due to sheer ignorance because I'm just not abreast of the current situation.

Frankly I would'nt know where to go. Tories:- a bunch of Toff parasites ? Liberal Democratics- insipid do-gooders ? Greens - a bunch of tree-huggers ? BNP ?- Sieg Heil !! See what I mean about ignorance ?

The UKIP looks interesting but I haven't studied their platform to any great extent.

Here's the current political situation from my perspective: I certainly wouldn't vote Toff led Conservative to get the Toff led Labour party out. Utter treason the way those two political parties have conspired against us to take us further into the European Union without a referendum mandate from the British people. Like bs3, I'm old enough to remember the damage the Tories did to Britain's economy and the massive unemployment amongst my generation with Mrs Thatcher as their leader.

The Conservative party are far from being anywhere near winning any General Election - with a workable majority - against the ruling Labour Party and they know it. A massive tranch of Conservative support has now gone to UKIP and the Tories are now trying to win them back by offering a referendum on the European Union Lisbon Treaty when it's already been ratified behind our backs by the traitor Labour Prime Minister that is Gordon Brown. As for the other political parties you mention, they've got almost no chance of ever forming a Government but I'll still vote UKIP nonetheless.

[Eddie Hitler]

Here's the current political situation from my perspective: I certainly wouldn't vote Toff led Conservative to get the Toff led Labour party out. Utter treason the way those two political parties have conspired against us to take us further into the European Union without a referendum mandate from the British people. Like bs3, I'm old enough to remember the damage the Tories did to Britain's economy and the massive unemployment amongst my generation with Mrs Thatcher as their leader.

The Conservative party are far from being anywhere near winning any General Election - with a workable majority - against the ruling Labour Party and they know it. A massive tranch of Conservative support has now gone to UKIP and the Tories are now trying to win them back by offering a referendum on the European Union Lisbon Treaty when it's already been ratified behind our backs by the traitor Labour Prime Minister that is Gordon Brown. As for the other political parties you mention, they've got almost no chance of ever forming a Government but I'll still vote UKIP nonetheless.

Other than re Mrs T ( a heroine of mine) I have to agree with you RG. My number one priority is to be out of Europe so UKIP for me.

They may have no chance of forming a government but if opinion polls start showing 10 - 15% UKIP then that percentage can swing a lot of marginal seats and it may force Dave "heir to Blair" Cameron to commit to a referendum on EU membership in order to try to take those votes and those seats.

[Mr Mosquito]

Other than re Mrs T ( a heroine of mine) I have to agree with you RG. My number one priority is to be out of Europe so UKIP for me.

They may have no chance of forming a government but if opinion polls start showing 10 - 15% UKIP then that percentage can swing a lot of marginal seats and it may force Dave "heir to Blair" Cameron to commit to a referendum on EU membership in order to try to take those votes and those seats.

Here here Herr Hitler: A referendum on continuing European Union membership and not just the Lisbon Treaty.

I note that our Labour Government are now backing the Post Office Union into a corner just as Thatcher and her Tories backed the Miners' Union into a corner. To satisfy the European Union 'free trade edicts' our traitor Government will do all they can to dismantle the state run Royal Mail including making life as difficult as possible for Post Office workers.

[Chivs]

I've always voted for one party and never been on the winning side!

Next time, I'm considering tactical voting. That is, I shall be voting for any party that can keep the Tories out.

You cannot have a moat and run the country.

You cannot be part of the same party as the evil Thatcher and be trusted with the upkeep of the country.

As a football forum, I'm proud to say ABT - Anyone But Tories.

[Mr Mosquito]

I've always voted for one party and never been on the winning side!

Next time, I'm considering tactical voting. That is, I shall be voting for any party that can keep the Tories out.

You cannot have a moat and run the country.

You cannot be part of the same party as the evil Thatcher and be trusted with the upkeep of the country.

As a football forum, I'm proud to say ABT - Anyone But Tories.

I still remember Margaret Thatcher and her Tory cronies issueing statements such as "unemployment is a price worth paying". The Tories will be tainted in my mind for ever more due to that. ABT for me as well. Not forgetting the fact that it was the Tories that initially sold us down the road to the European Union domination of our land by taking us into the EEC in 1973.

[Philip Belgrave]

Here's the current political situation from my perspective: I certainly wouldn't vote Toff led Conservative to get the Toff led Labour party out. Utter treason the way those two political parties have conspired against us to take us further into the European Union without a referendum mandate from the British people. Like bs3, I'm old enough to remember the damage the Tories did to Britain's economy and the massive unemployment amongst my generation with Mrs Thatcher as their leader.

The Conservative party are far from being anywhere near winning any General Election - with a workable majority - against the ruling Labour Party and they know it. A massive tranch of Conservative support has now gone to UKIP and the Tories are now trying to win them back by offering a referendum on the European Union Lisbon Treaty when it's already been ratified behind our backs by the traitor Labour Prime Minister that is Gordon Brown. As for the other political parties you mention, they've got almost no chance of ever forming a Government but I'll still vote UKIP nonetheless.

Yes, I suppose it always boils down to a two-horse race in the end.

In Australia there was an attempt to form a viable third force with the founding of The Australian Democrats (Slogan:- "Keep the Bastards Honest"), to whom I was attracted -but they have withered on the vine.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yes, I suppose it always boils down to a two-horse race in the end.

In Australia there was an attempt to form a viable third force with the founding of The Australian Democrats (Slogan:- "Keep the Bastards Honest"), to whom I was attracted -but they have withered on the vine.

In the UK we no longer have a true 'two-horse race' as our Conservative and Labour parties are now but one and the same Toff led anti working man and European Union loving political party.

A working example: it's now come to my attention that our ruling Labour Party are paying massive sums from taxpayers' funds for time and motion studies of our already beleaguered Post Office workers. One Labour Party sponsored time and motion zealot followed a Postman around for a whole week with a clip board. How is paying an efficiency zealot - for carrying a clip board - saving money for the Royal Mail? :noexpression:

[Ian M]

I can't see the poll actions.

Any mods want to add one? The big 3 plus "other"

For some reason Polls weren't activated in General Chat.

I've changed the setting and added the poll with the options you outlined in this reply.

[Portland Bill]

I'll be voting Labour.

I can remmeber what the Tories did to this country the last time there were in power.

Agree 100%. i have never been unemployed under a labour goverment, spent 2 years under the witches tory goverment on the Dole.Was told that i was" a price worth paying " .

I will NEVER forget the way i was treated by THAT woman and would never lower myself to vote for that upper class party.

Labour have millions of votes still to come back there way. That is when the Tories have to admit that they would repel the Hunting Bill.

The ordinary people of this country will then realise why they have to stop those horrible scum tories ever having power again.

[Mr Mosquito]

Agree 100%. i have never been unemployed under a labour goverment, spent 2 years under the witches tory goverment on the Dole.Was told that i was" a price worth paying " .

I will NEVER forget the way i was treated by THAT woman and would never lower myself to vote for that upper class party.

Labour have millions of votes still to come back there way. That is when the Tories have to admit that they would repel the Hunting Bill.

The ordinary people of this country will then realise why they have to stop those horrible scum tories ever having power again.

I remember Thatcher and no way do I want any of my taxes put toward a state funeral for her when she finally croaks. Labour's Gordon Brown would like to pay £3 million of our taxes for her corpse to be carried on a gun carriage. To me, Labour and Tory are the same. I'll be voting UKIP to try and help scupper the treasonous Labour and Tory Party dream of European Union domination of our country.

[Ian M]

It would appear that a lot more people are prepared to vote for the Conservatives than are willing to admit voting for the Conservatives as only one poster on this thread admitted to planning to vote Tory & one poster admitted to voting Tory in the past but admitted he may not this time yet they are currently winning the vote.

At the risk of being even more of a social pariah on here than I already am in simply being an Admin, I will admit to voting Conservatives in this poll

[fRed]

I vote for Michael Foot

[Mr Popodopolous]

Not sure really. Certainly wouldn't vote Tory, most likely. Then again, Labour aren't much better and a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote under our current system.

Choice in a democracy eh, don't you just love it! :noexpression:

Perhaps the Green Party.

[Nogbad the Bad]

It would appear that a lot more people are prepared to vote for the Conservatives than are willing to admit voting for the Conservatives

Ever heard of the silent majority Madger?

That silent majority are very determined this country won't be 'governed' by the likes of Blair and Brown again for a very long time.

The Conservatives will get my vote.

[Ian M]

Ever heard of the silent majority Madger?

That silent majority are very determined this country won't be 'governed' by the likes of Blair and Brown again for a very long time.

The Conservatives will get my vote.

Exactly why I'm voting Tory. I'm fed up with being told I don't know how to run my own life by Scotsmen......I hope that doesn't intrude too much on RG's territory.

[Nibor]

Exactly why I'm voting Tory. I'm fed up with being told I don't know how to run my own life by Scotsmen......I hope that doesn't intrude too much on RG's territory.

Sadly I will probably vote Tory too. I'll feel very dirty when I do it but I'm ****** if I'm putting up with any more of the sort of anti libertarian namby pamby nanny state free handout shite I've seen in the last 12 years.

[Barrs Court Red]

Time for mystic Moomin.

The election will be called for May/June. After Christmas, the government will annouce a whole number of projects to boost public spending and increase employment, plus give tax breaks to their target voting groups, like the middle class.

The Torys will continue to threaten, but rather that try and sell themselves on their traditional, if somewhat modernised values, Cameran insists on focusing on Green issues, public service cuts and rules out tax cuts.

Tory support falls and we get a hung parliment, where Labour and the Lib Dems (with less votes than the previous election) form a majority house stopping anoy major reform for the next 4 years.

[screech]

UKIP for me.

The three major parties have had long enough to do something and have failed time and time again, it's time for something different and they are openly against the undemocratic EU monster.

[Eddie Hitler]

Other.

I view LibLabCon as the three arms of a single corrupt centrist pro-EU party.

If there is anybody, anybody, on the ballot paper other than those three they get my vote. Usually it's an independent.

[Mr Mosquito]

Other.

I view LibLabCon as the three arms of a single corrupt centrist pro-EU party.

If there is anybody, anybody, on the ballot paper other than those three they get my vote. Usually it's an independent.

Looking at the poll results so far, the Labour Party only have 5 votes at time of writing. Considering South Bristol is/was a traditional Labour Party stronghold this is astonishing and could foretell a total collapse in support for Labour throughout their traditional heartlands. This poll could reflect the fact that the neoliberalist European Union loving Labour leadership of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Peter Mandelsohn have brought nothing but shame on the Labour Party.

[CiderHider]

I honestly don't know who I would vote for right now, would not never vote for Labour, never have done never will. Might vote tory if i goto the voting booth pissed up, but might vote ukip for a bubble, just to see what will happen muahaha

[Mr Mosquito]

I honestly don't know who I would vote for right now, would not never vote for Labour, never have done never will. Might vote tory if i goto the voting booth pissed up, but might vote ukip for a bubble, just to see what will happen muahaha

The Tories will lose yet more of their European Union hating voters now as William Hague - the shadow foreign secretary - has just announced that a Conservative government will not hold a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty.

[Chivs]

Ever heard of the silent majority Madger?

That silent majority are very determined this country won't be 'governed' by the likes of Blair and Brown again for a very long time.

The Conservatives will get my vote.

There's a difference between Blair and Cameron? They're both fatuous moral-free zones. And children of Thatcher.

Don't do it. Save your soul.

I've been watching the excellent Andrew Marr series recently on Edwardian history. The (Old) Labour party has hardly been born, the Liberals have the right principles but are ineffective and the Tories don't come out too well so far.

Who said History repeats itself?

[Mr Mosquito]

There's a difference between Blair and Cameron? They're both fatuous moral-free zones. And children of Thatcher.

Don't do it. Save your soul.

I've been watching the excellent Andrew Marr series recently on Edwardian history. The (Old) Labour party has hardly been born, the Liberals have the right principles but are ineffective and the Tories don't come out too well so far.

Who said History repeats itself?

I'm pretty sure that Blair, Brown, Cameron and Thatcher come under the 'Neo Liberalist' label. Broadly speaking, Neo liberalism seeks to transfer part of the control of the economy from public sector to the private sector, under the belief that it will produce a more efficient government and improve the economic indicators of the nation. As we know, Thatcher privatised many state industries including Gas, Water, Electricity. telephones etc and prices have gone up for the British consumer and control fallen to foreign interests. Gordon Brown is doing his best to ruin our state run Royal Mail service by privatising large sections of it. In this respect Brown is no different to Thatcher and a child of Thatcher.

[Maltshoveller]

The Tories will lose yet more of their European Union hating voters now as William Hague - the shadow foreign secretary - has just announced that a Conservative government will not hold a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty.

I have to say i dont agree in a referendum

The reason i say this is that 99% of the public

(like myself) havnt got a clue what is for the good or bad for the country

ok 99% might be a bit high

[Mr Mosquito]

I have to say i dont agree in a referendum

The reason i say this is that 99% of the public

(like myself) havnt got a clue what is for the good or bad for the country

ok 99% might be a bit high

My view is that I'd rather the idiots I half know of in Westminster London misrule our country rather than foreign idiots in the European Union in Berlin/Brussels misruling our country.

Gordon Brown promised a referendum on Europe and he's reneged/lied because he hasn't given us the vote. Had there been a referendum on the EU then all the issues would have been explained and argued over by the various political parties and then you could make your own mind up on what is good or bad for our country.