What A Shambles

[Snufflelufagus]

Yet another dreary performance from City again tonight. No momentum, no impetus, no drive no excitement and a lucky draw against a young Cardiff outfit with loads of senior players missing.

Its boring to watch. Long balls up the middle again and again, no quality service to Maynard, simply no idea.

Why can't Johnson see what dross his team is being forced by him to play? You would think that with all the critism from the fans, media and the falling attendences that he would realise that he has to produce better, more entertaining football?

Ignore the conditions. It was the same for both teams just as the City performance was the same as we've seen for the past 18 months.

In any game we score do you actually cheer?

[Robbored]

I take your point Robbo, but if he'd gone with Akinde and Saborio up front to provide an 'outlet' he would be being criticised on here for setting the team up for the long ball, of which i actually thought there was a pleasing lack of for most of the match. GJ is damned if he does and damned if he don't right now

Not by me. I would have applauded an attempt to do things differently.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yet another dreary performance from City again tonight. No momentum, no impetus, no drive no excitement and a lucky draw against a young Cardiff outfit with loads of senior players missing.

Its boring to watch. Long balls up the middle again and again, no quality service to Maynard, simply no idea.

Why can't Johnson see what dross his team is being forced by him to play? You would think that with all the critism from the fans, media and the falling attendences that he would realise that he has to produce better, more entertaining football?

Ignore the conditions. It was the same for both teams just as the City performance was the same as we've seen for the past 18 months.

Gary Johnson is a hero to the BCFC cause for standing his ground in the 'technical area' against Chopra yesterday. Compare and contrast Gary Johnson's attitude to Danny Wilson who couldn't give a toss about results while he was here - Wilson would just lean on the dug out when a goal would go in against us. At least Gary Johnson is light years ahead of Danny Wilson with the commitment he's shown to this club so far. Gary Johnson isn't the most capable manager at Championship level but I really believe that Gary Johnson can still get us a pray off place via sheer hard work and commitment - you couldn't say the same of Danny Wilson while he was here.

[Tunley Legend]

Obvioulsy there was gonna be a lot of poor football played last night, it was played in a blizzard. However, i thought that when actual football (as a pose to giant slalom) was played, we looked the better team. And this thing about Cardiff being a team full of academy players is rubbish; Adam Matthews is the most highly rated teenager in the division right now and they were only really missing Burke and Bothroyd

That's not to say ours was a performance beyond criticism. Elliot looked great when we were without the ball, then once he'd crunched someone and won possession he invariably looked like a pub player. Both full backs were poor and kept being pulled into midfield, while both centre backs continually bailed them out. I thought Hartley was good in the first half and Skuse was great in the second. The most troubling thing though was that we never seemed to attack the ball, especially Maynard and Haynes (although they weren't the only ones). The ball was not exactly zipping about and for 90 minutes we never seemed to twig that perhaps we might have to attack the ball once in a while to retain possesion

Cardiff are not a team FULL of Academy players but they had TWO in their line up last night, both brought in after not playing at the weekend. We have two full backs off form, one has been off form for months and yet our brightest Academy lad, who was apparently outstanding at Stockport when on loan according to an ex-Liverpool player who manages them and played in his position, is not getting a sniff of any action, not even coming off the bench. Dave Jones TRUSTS young players and Johnson doesn't - that is the only conclusion I can draw.

[cheese]

Makes a change for you to comment on a game that you actually witnessed, what's that, the third this season?

Haha - very funny Kingswood. Multiply that by 6 and you'll be closer I think.

[cityhead]

Tbh I thought both teams coped pretty well with the conditions. The only bad error led to the Cardiff goal.

My point earlier in this thread was that regardless of the conditions Johnson set up his team in the same way that he has done for the past 18 months. Narrow, predictable and pedestrian relying on two fullbacks to get forward when neither of them are up to the job.Decent enough full backs but wing backs they ain't.Pumping long balls up to strikers who are not suited to that style.Cardiff knew what to expect and they got exactly that.It will be the same at their place next week.

In view of the weather forcast it was obvious that playing on the ground would get increasingly difficult and Johnson had the opportunity to change the way the team played but he persisted with the same tired formation. He could have opted to play more directely and put either Akinde/Saborio or both up front with Maynard from the start in the hope of flick on or knock down.High balls in snowy conditions are more likely to cause defensive errors but he didn't do it. Johnson missed a trick last night as I'm sure Cardiff wouldn't have expected a direct style.

If we had seen a deliberate stratagy to play more directly then I'm sure we would have understood why and applauded an attempt to take advatgae of the conditions.

And the two back pases from our fullbacks to our keeper.

If your going to make satemets then atleasrt be factual.

As soon as I saw the title to this thread I thought here we go again, and true to form we get the biggeest load of nonesense with no regard to balance but pure blinkered moaning, which we have all responded to, myself included, which we should have ignored and so this thread would have remained a beacon to the sad world that is Robbored.

[!james]

Yet another dreary performance from City again tonight. No momentum, no impetus, no drive no excitement and a lucky draw against a young Cardiff outfit with loads of senior players missing.

can i just clear this up? Cardiff team, age and appearances this season:

Cardiff

01 Marshall (age 24, 24 apps this season and first choice keeper)

02 McNaughton (age 27, 8 apps this season, regular first team player)

05 Hudson (age 27, 24 apps this season, captain first choice)

15 Gerrard (age 23, 23 apps this season, first choice)

04 Rae (age 32, 25 apps this season, first choice)

07 Whittingham (age 25, 23 apps this season, first choice)

16 Ledley (age 22, 22 apps, first choice)

27 Matthews (age 18, 15 apps, first choice)

28 Wildig (age 17, 1 app this season, youngster)

08 Chopra (age 25, 23 apps, first choice)

44 McCormack (age 23, 14 apps, first choice)

can only see one youngster there with no experience....

[WellRedPhil]

I thought we started off very well for the opening 10 minutes, and did ok in the first half, we just lacked that quality in the final third..again! However second half I thought we were disappointing, that said I didn't think Cardiff were particularly threatening and the weather conditions obviously played a part. I'd say a draw was fair and it was nice to score late-on for a change, especially against the Welsh! However I am seriously worried about our form and I do think we have become predictable, I think we need a win on Saturday and a display that carries on the improvements that were made both at QPR and against Watford. I think we are lacking in creativity and I do believe that last night showed when Skuse and Hartley don't have particularly good games, we really do lack in threat to the opposition.

[Tunley Legend]

can i just clear this up? Cardiff team, age and appearances this season:

Cardiff

01 Marshall (age 24, 24 apps this season and first choice keeper)

02 McNaughton (age 27, 8 apps this season, regular first team player)

05 Hudson (age 27, 24 apps this season, captain first choice)

15 Gerrard (age 23, 23 apps this season, first choice)

04 Rae (age 32, 25 apps this season, first choice)

07 Whittingham (age 25, 23 apps this season, first choice)

16 Ledley (age 22, 22 apps, first choice)

27 Matthews (age 18, 15 apps, first choice)

28 Wildig (age 17, 1 app this season, youngster)

08 Chopra (age 25, 23 apps, first choice)

44 McCormack (age 23, 14 apps, first choice)

can only see one youngster there with no experience....

And why has Adam Matthews got experience? Because Dave Jones TRUSTED him a few months back and stuck him in the team when he had no experience whatsoever. The same applies to Joe Ledley who is 22 and has over 100 first team games under his belt at Championship level. He has now done the same with Wildig. When is GJ going to give Ribiero this kind of experience? If he doesn't give him it now with our two full backs badly off form he will never give him a game.

[chipdawg]

Cardiff are not a team FULL of Academy players but they had TWO in their line up last night, both brought in after not playing at the weekend. We have two full backs off form, one has been off form for months and yet our brightest Academy lad, who was apparently outstanding at Stockport when on loan according to an ex-Liverpool player who manages them and played in his position, is not getting a sniff of any action, not even coming off the bench. Dave Jones TRUSTS young players and Johnson doesn't - that is the only conclusion I can draw.

This i agree with. Not one for moaning and i'm certainly a long way from the 'Johnson Out' camp, but GJ really needs to give the youngsters a chance. Orr has always been limited in terms of ability (although certainly not in commitment to the cause) and MacAllister is IMO a decent player who is just coasting without any competition. Our plan at the minute seems to be keep doing the same old things and eventually it'll come right, which i'm sure (eventually) it will. But by then any chance of the play offs might be gone. Get Ribiero, Wilson, Akinde, even Kington in the squad and getting a chance; what have we got to lose?

[Andy082005]

I am amazed at the negative comments on last nights game, absolutely amazed.

Ok, it was dross, it was a terrible game. However, how anyone can pick negatives oput of that is beyond me. Try playing football in conditions like that, snow was coming down through out the whole game, the pitch would have been getting harder and had more and more bobbles as the game wore on making any sort of real football nigh on impossible. Just becasue they earn thousands of pounds a week, doesnt mean they can play football as fluently in weather like that!

Everyone who reads this forum will know my opinions on Johnson and the team this season, but again, how people can slate the performance last night is beyond me

[!james]

And why has Adam Matthews got experience? Because Dave Jones TRUSTED him a few months back and stuck him in the team when he had no experience whatsoever. The same applies to Joe Ledley who is 22 and has over 100 first team games under his belt at Championship level. He has now done the same with Wildig. When is GJ going to give Ribiero this kind of experience? If he doesn't give him it now with our two full backs badly off form he will never give him a game.

thats a different arguement altogether! i was just pointing to moaningred, sorry robbored that we pretty much played Cardiffs first team bar one player

[Riaz]

I am amazed at the negative comments on last nights game, absolutely amazed.

Ok, it was dross, it was a terrible game. However, how anyone can pick negatives oput of that is beyond me. Try playing football in conditions like that, snow was coming down through out the whole game, the pitch would have been getting harder and had more and more bobbles as the game wore on making any sort of real football nigh on impossible. Just becasue they earn thousands of pounds a week, doesnt mean they can play football as fluently in weather like that!

Everyone who reads this forum will know my opinions on Johnson and the team this season, but again, how people can slate the performance last night is beyond me

Good on ya!

common sense at last

[downendcity]

can i just clear this up? Cardiff team, age and appearances this season:

Cardiff

01 Marshall (age 24, 24 apps this season and first choice keeper)

02 McNaughton (age 27, 8 apps this season, regular first team player)

05 Hudson (age 27, 24 apps this season, captain first choice)

15 Gerrard (age 23, 23 apps this season, first choice)

04 Rae (age 32, 25 apps this season, first choice)

07 Whittingham (age 25, 23 apps this season, first choice)

16 Ledley (age 22, 22 apps, first choice)

27 Matthews (age 18, 15 apps, first choice)

28 Wildig (age 17, 1 app this season, youngster)

08 Chopra (age 25, 23 apps, first choice)

44 McCormack (age 23, 14 apps, first choice)

can only see one youngster there with no experience....

Bad mistake you've made there James. On this forum you never let facts get in the way of an argument!

[!james]

im sorry, it wont happen again!

[downendcity]

Good on ya!

common sense at last

Common sense?

What's he doing on this forum? Bar him immediately.

[WellRedPhil]

Bad mistake you've made there James. On this forum you never let facts get in the way of an argument!

Haha! Brilliant!

[midland red]

Please don"t get sucked in by RR as he has been winding fans up since Atyeo scored his last goal, since City have been in the CC i think they have aquitted themselves extremely well, he says GJ has set his team up identical for the last 18 months where as i remember not so long ago city lining up with two wingers in Mcindoe and Sproule, you have to feel for GJ he is cutting the clubs cloth to suit they are planning for a new stadium and he is still trying to improve the team on 14.5K crowds and yet all he gets is abuse from some sections of fans, football fans are a fickle lot by nature we always want to win, we always want to be entertained and see lots of goals scored and always in the shout for promotion but sometimes in reality you have to say for a club our size we are doing really well, unfortunately some will never see this and will continue to throw abuse at the manager and club in general.

Voice of reason, the sage - do me a favour.

yours midland red.

[Tunley Legend]

Please don"t get sucked in by RR as he has been winding fans up since Atyeo scored his last goal, since City have been in the CC i think they have aquitted themselves extremely well, he says GJ has set his team up identical for the last 18 months where as i remember not so long ago city lining up with two wingers in Mcindoe and Sproule, you have to feel for GJ he is cutting the clubs cloth to suit they are planning for a new stadium and he is still trying to improve the team on 14.5K crowds and yet all he gets is abuse from some sections of fans, football fans are a fickle lot by nature we always want to win, we always want to be entertained and see lots of goals scored and always in the shout for promotion but sometimes in reality you have to say for a club our size we are doing really well, unfortunately some will never see this and will continue to throw abuse at the manager and club in general.

Voice of reason, the sage - do me a favour.

yours midland red.

Forgetting last night I couldn't disagree with your post more. GJ gets an average to above average budget in Championship terms and whilst many supporters are happy to accept an average to above average league position they will not tolerate below average football without asking questions. He has a very good Chairman who tries to back him in the transfer market whenever possible and he has been allowed to spend millions of pounds on players in total. Doncaster would love to average 14½K crowds and spend £4 million plus on centre forwards yet their Manager has them playing a brand of football that has seen interest from a Premier League club for his services. And Skeletor is not doing a bad job at Blackpool either on low crowds and income?

Whatever your opinion on last night and whether Robbored is right or totally wrong I don't think there is much argument from many supporters against the statement that the style of football generally, with the odd game thrown in as an exception (QPR first half at Home for example), has been uninspiring at best for at least 18 months - and we haven't been playing in driving snow throughout that period!!!

[Mr Mosquito]

Please don"t get sucked in by RR as he has been winding fans up since Atyeo scored his last goal, since City have been in the CC i think they have aquitted themselves extremely well, he says GJ has set his team up identical for the last 18 months where as i remember not so long ago city lining up with two wingers in Mcindoe and Sproule, you have to feel for GJ he is cutting the clubs cloth to suit they are planning for a new stadium and he is still trying to improve the team on 14.5K crowds and yet all he gets is abuse from some sections of fans, football fans are a fickle lot by nature we always want to win, we always want to be entertained and see lots of goals scored and always in the shout for promotion but sometimes in reality you have to say for a club our size we are doing really well, unfortunately some will never see this and will continue to throw abuse at the manager and club in general.

Voice of reason, the sage - do me a favour.

yours midland red.

You are right because we are doing well with our league position relative to the last 30 odd years. I reckon the rod was made for Gary Johnson's back with all the pre season official club talk/hype of going for an automatic promotion finish this season. We're way off that and the standard of football seems relatively poor to the quality of players we now have. There's a lot of moaning going on at Liverpool FC at the moment - the moaning here is very minor in comparison.

[CliftonCliff]

My posting record will show that I by no means always agree with RR and I'm not particularly taking sides now, but in all fairness it has to be said that there is more than a grain of truth running through his central argument, even if people don't care much for the tone or repetitiveness of his comments.

Somebody has probably already said this somewhere, but during the latter part of last season and pretty well all of the current campaign I have felt like Bill Murray in the film "Groundhog Day", stuck in a time warp and condemned for ever to watch the same game over and over again. Without wishing to sound wise after the event, I predicted a 1-1 draw before the game started and it won't surprise me if we see another one against Preston on Saturday.

There is a deep-rooted, essentially conservative mindset underlying everything we do at the moment, regardless of the specifics of 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 or whatever. Whilst, like most teams, we may resort to playing it long when we're struggling, I do think that on the whole there is a commitment to playing the game the right way, by getting it down and passing it, which is commendable. However, "good" football in this sense is not synonymous with attacking football. We might play the former; we most certainly don't play the latter and some of the frustration with the manager comes from his avoidance of this essential truth. If he'd come clean and admit that it his judgement that the team, in its present stage of development, needs to play this way to survive in the CCC, we might disagree, but at least we could respect his stance.

I believe a lot of the growing antagonism towards GJ is rooted as much in his PR style as it is in what's happening on the field. You sense that the remainder of the season could prove to be the most testing time he's had in the job. Whilst the GJ bashers may still be in a minority, you do sense he is gradually losing the sympathy of the rank and file supporter (and RR is right to suggest that even if some fans don't know much about the game, they do at least know whether they've had an enjoyable time or not). What is more interesting to me is that there may be a covert message from the chairman in his recent remarks about the January transfer window. It seems new arrivals are unlikely, at least unless somebody gets offloaded first. This seems to be a shift from the usual "if Gary wants to bring in someone who he thinks will improve the squad, we'll do everything we can within reason to back him" stance. Is SL saying "Hang on a minute. We've given you most of what you've asked for. You've got arguably the strongest squad the club's had in many a year. You chose the players; they seem to be under-performing. It's up to you to get more out of them."

In other words, he's losing the confidence of a sigificant section of the support: is he also starting to create doubts for the first time in the mind of the chairman? We live in interesting times; the next few months could be quite crucial in more ways than one.

[reddoc]

Haha - very funny Kingswood. Multiply that by 6 and you'll be closer I think.

Christ, didn't realise we'd been on the tele that often.

[Guest DanC]

I am amazed at the negative comments on last nights game, absolutely amazed.

Ok, it was dross, it was a terrible game. However, how anyone can pick negatives oput of that is beyond me. Try playing football in conditions like that, snow was coming down through out the whole game, the pitch would have been getting harder and had more and more bobbles as the game wore on making any sort of real football nigh on impossible. Just becasue they earn thousands of pounds a week, doesnt mean they can play football as fluently in weather like that!

Everyone who reads this forum will know my opinions on Johnson and the team this season, but again, how people can slate the performance last night is beyond me

When I was a lad at school we were forced to play rugby in conditions like that. It wasn't nice but if we didn't show the same commitment as we normally did then we would be doing a cross country at dinner time. So sorry if I have no sympathy for players who are paid thousands a week. Has everyone forgot the 2nd half against Wolves last season?

I was disappointed as it took a lot of effort and money from myself to attend and once again see the same old crap.

[RedM]

I think the 'what a shambles' title is way harsh. I won't go over the same points as others have made but I've seen us play much worse this season, without the conditions.

Also although it maybe yet another draw, it was us for a change who clawed the game back, that's got to be a positive point surely?

And Robbored, I'm concerned for you, all this stress mentally & physically can't be good. You obviously aren't enjoying watching City in the slightest, maybe take a step back? Yessirs offer is a good one.

[Paul Hartley's Beard]

just thought i'd add did anyone see skuse get elbowed in the face leading up to their goal? right in front of the fourth official... i thought a head injury meant ref should stop play obvoiously not

[Andy082005]

When I was a lad at school we were forced to play rugby in conditions like that. It wasn't nice but if we didn't show the same commitment as we normally did then we would be doing a cross country at dinner time. So sorry if I have no sympathy for players who are paid thousands a week. Has everyone forgot the 2nd half against Wolves last season?

I was disappointed as it took a lot of effort and money from myself to attend and once again see the same old crap.

there was nothing wrong with the commitment or effort levels last night, and to be fair, this hasnt been the problem. The problem is a complete lack of creativity and a complete lack of a Plan B, Plan C and maybe, PLan D.

Seriously, try playing football in conditions like that....let me re-word that, try playing fluent, fast moving football in conditions like that. Trust me, its extremely difficult. I dont have any sympathy for the players, they are paid thousands of poubds....but, I like to think I am a reasonable fan, who can accept that at times, conditions are not always the best to play in. Wolves last year, we werent that great...we just battled back well against a Wolves team who took their foot of the gas second half.

As I said, try playing football on a pitch with snow and ice on it, on a pitch that is hard and bobbly. That pitch would have started getting more and more difficult the minute the heaters were taken off.

As I said, feel free to read my comments on my views on GJ and the team...they are less then complimentry....but to slate them for last night, is just down right stupid. Anyone who has player football in weather like that (at any level), will understand how difficult it is

[Tunley Legend]

just thought i'd add did anyone see skuse get elbowed in the face leading up to their goal? right in front of the fourth official... i thought a head injury meant ref should stop play obvoiously not

1) It's at the discretion of the referee - i.e. if he thinks it is serious

2) If it happened right in front of the fourth official he only had to walk two yards to get treatment

[Paul Hartley's Beard]

1) It's at the discretion of the referee - i.e. if he thinks it is serious

2) If it happened right in front of the fourth official he only had to walk two yards to get treatment

its still a stop in play tho and to be honest the ref wasnt miles up the pitch at the time a shout from four official would've done

[Mr Gow]

My posting record will show that I by no means always agree with RR and I'm not particularly taking sides now, but in all fairness it has to be said that there is more than a grain of truth running through his central argument, even if people don't care much for the tone or repetitiveness of his comments.

Somebody has probably already said this somewhere, but during the latter part of last season and pretty well all of the current campaign I have felt like Bill Murray in the film "Groundhog Day", stuck in a time warp and condemned for ever to watch the same game over and over again. Without wishing to sound wise after the event, I predicted a 1-1 draw before the game started and it won't surprise me if we see another one against Preston on Saturday.

There is a deep-rooted, essentially conservative mindset underlying everything we do at the moment, regardless of the specifics of 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 or whatever. Whilst, like most teams, we may resort to playing it long when we're struggling, I do think that on the whole there is a commitment to playing the game the right way, by getting it down and passing it, which is commendable. However, "good" football in this sense is not synonymous with attacking football. We might play the former; we most certainly don't play the latter and some of the frustration with the manager comes from his avoidance of this essential truth. If he'd come clean and admit that it his judgement that the team, in its present stage of development, needs to play this way to survive in the CCC, we might disagree, but at least we could respect his stance.

I believe a lot of the growing antagonism towards GJ is rooted as much in his PR style as it is in what's happening on the field. You sense that the remainder of the season could prove to be the most testing time he's had in the job. Whilst the GJ bashers may still be in a minority, you do sense he is gradually losing the sympathy of the rank and file supporter (and RR is right to suggest that even if some fans don't know much about the game, they do at least know whether they've had an enjoyable time or not). What is more interesting to me is that there may be a covert message from the chairman in his recent remarks about the January transfer window. It seems new arrivals are unlikely, at least unless somebody gets offloaded first. This seems to be a shift from the usual "if Gary wants to bring in someone who he thinks will improve the squad, we'll do everything we can within reason to back him" stance. Is SL saying "Hang on a minute. We've given you most of what you've asked for. You've got arguably the strongest squad the club's had in many a year. You chose the players; they seem to be under-performing. It's up to you to get more out of them."

In other words, he's losing the confidence of a sigificant section of the support: is he also starting to create doubts for the first time in the mind of the chairman? We live in interesting times; the next few months could be quite crucial in more ways than one.

Very good well thought out and written post

[Galley is our king]

What a pityful clueless shambolic mess of a football team we are.

Sick to the back teeth of it, just look at the pathetic crowd tonight, this for a severnside derby.

Still Johnson is king aint he? He's got it all under control aint he? He's gonna sort it all out in the end and have us winning and creating chances again aint he?

Yes good old Gary Johnson,the saviour of Bristol City FC

Do you and your like (Robbored et al) actually know how much you really piss people off? You might thnk it's clever to be so negative and have a different agenda to everyone else but it just ain't!

You moan about the crowd... were you there? Have you been at all this season? Did you watch the match on-line? Do you ring radio Bristol on a Saturday evening? People like you, Robbored (although at least he attends) Ian who uses the Supporters club phone to moan on Radio Bristol and the rest should just pack up and bugger off.

We all know Robbored and Ian have their own agenda, what's yours?

AND WILL YOU PLEASE STOP TURNING OUT THIS DRIVEL USING THE NAME AND PICTURE OF ONE OF MY ALL TIME BLOODY HERO'S

AND ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS TO EVER TO WEAR THE SHIRT!!