City V Cardiff Match Thread

[Tunley Legend]

What with global warming, I don't think there's enough time left for a team mate to give him a perfect pass.

But hey at least we know who the player is to replace LJ as the next AG hate figure.

Lets get one thing straight - I don't go round "hating" any players. I don't know any of them for a start. That comment possibly says more about the way you think than it does me. All I am commenting on is what I have seen tonight and over a number of weeks. Akinde put in far more than Saborio did tonight and he simply isn't giving us value for money - unless something drastic changes like Campbell-Ryce starts putting tap-ins on a plate for him it is looking like Saborio is another expensive Gary Johnson striking flop.

[grove park city]

Well theres no denying it, we've been awful tonight... I can barely remember a worthwile attempt on goal. Cardiff have been without several key players and they've contained us fairly comfortably and created much the better chances.

After it looked like we'd turned the corner on Saturday against a very poor Preston side, we appear to be back to square one again. Very dissapointing.

Preston were bloody awful out of condition players of which several were over weight , back to route 1 thumps up the field to big John the same tactics normally used with Mc Combe when all else fails.... His signings with strikers is appalling Saborio is like a bloody statue never looked interested in getting involved . Looked like there was no passion to play on Friday making another early cup exit almost a certainty from the off, 3 attempts at Cardiff no wins the play-offs no chance Sno was the only player who seemed to control the ball move and make space actually had it under control and didn't just thump it anywhere.

[Tunley Legend]

Instead explaing the reasons why "they" let us down tonight I would like YOU, Gary Johnson, to explain why YOU changed from the 4-4-2 which worked second half Saturday and went 4-5-1 and what YOU felt it brought to the table tonight. Yet again extreme caution rules the thinking of the Manager and yet again he has given us a performance which has left many feeling very disappointed. Another derby game where we come away with nothing.

Do you think the Radio Bristol reporter will have the guts to ask that question?

[mindjuicer]

Of course, had Sno stayed on, the rebound wouldn't have given Orr so much trouble???

I know you're all pissed and looking for something to blame but there are 11 players in a team.

Skuse and Hartley played fairly well in the first half. How was GJ to know they would underperform in the second? Should Akinde not have been brought on? I know Saborio is the current whipping boy but he did OK with his service - could have got into space more I agree.

We had an excellent 35 mins. I missed the start of the 2nd half so have no idea what went on before the subs.

Where was Nyatanga on the goal? The OG was just typical of our luck atm, only I'm thinking it's more of a team-jinx. It couldn't have been a worse rebound for Orr.

Everyone who said 4-4-2 is The Answer... I think the reality of today just contradicted you.

Edit: Since when were we playing 4-5-1?

[bucksred]

I will be happy when we reach 53 points to be honest. Anything after that is a bonus when you consider we have won two of our last DOZEN games. This is becoming more than just a bad run.

Aint that the truth....56 to be absloutely safe methinks.

[redrebel]

Rubbish.It isn' just the defeat it was the pitiful performance that was put up by the team. Only pluses for me were Akinde and Sno the rest were hopeless and as a poster said they were like a pub team.The defence were like rabbits in headlights they just watched as Chopra and the Cardiff forwards ran them ragged.As for Gherkin his alarming decline in form is a major worry. Also we don't seem able to win the first ball in the air in defence which is causing massive problems.

In spite of the result against Preston , I don't see how this team can do anything but sink down the league.Johnson's tactics were simply to lump it upfield aimlessly.That was plan A and there was no plan B.Cardiff showed how to play the ball to feet I wonder if Johnson noticed.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Lets get one thing straight - I don't go round "hating" any players. I don't know any of them for a start. That comment possibly says more about the way you think than it does me. All I am commenting on is what I have seen tonight and over a number of weeks. Akinde put in far more than Saborio did tonight and he simply isn't giving us value for money - unless something drastic changes like Campbell-Ryce starts putting tap-ins on a plate for him it is looking like Saborio is another expensive Gary Johnson striking flop.

Actually let's get something else straight, Gerken was nervy tonight, Carey at times was very casual, Hartley was woeful over hit free kicks, corners too close to the keeper, Skuse was the worst player on the field, Maynard does not take good positions in the box and did nothing, Sproule can't pass, so let's have some balance when handing out the stick.

[Rob k]

You Moron...go support another club and take your crow bar with you.

only the fa cup so who cares

[Tunley Legend]

Of course, had Sno stayed on, the rebound wouldn't have given Orr so much trouble???

I know you're all pissed and looking for something to blame but there are 11 players in a team.

Skuse and Hartley played fairly well in the first half. How was GJ to know they would underperform in the second? Should Akinde not have been brought on? I know Saborio is the current whipping boy but he did OK with his service - could have got into space more I agree.

We had an excellent 35 mins. I missed the start of the 2nd half so have no idea what went on before the subs.

Where was Nyatanga on the goal? The OG was just typical of our luck atm, only I'm thinking it's more of a team-jinx. It couldn't have been a worse rebound for Orr.

Everyone who said 4-4-2 is The Answer... I think the reality of today just contradicted you.

When we had our best players on the pitch we weren't playing 4-4-2. We played 4-4-2 on Saturday a lot better than we played 4-5-1 tonight. We were effectively playing 4-4-1 for the last half hour as we had at least one player out there who was totally anonymous.

And how can you talk about an "excellent" 35 minutes when Cardiff's keeper never had a bloody shot to save? An "excellent" 35 minutes is when you tear a team apart, create chances and find yourselves 3-0 to the good.

[Tunley Legend]

Actually let's get something else straight, Gerken was nervy tonight, Carey at times was very casual, Hartley was woeful over hit free kicks, corners too close to the keeper, Skuse was the worst player on the field, Maynard does not take good positions in the box and did nothing, Sproule can't pass, so let's have some balance when handing out the stick.

Very true. Except most of the players you list above have put in consistently acceptable performances over a reasonable period of time that mean most of us are forgiving when they have a bad un'. I am afraid that Saborio has not yet earned the right to be forgiven for yet "another" anonymous performance. He needs to start putting in some decent performances first.

[jfkerton]

Personally i think both teams looked lackluster for the majority, if not the whole game. The only people to impress me in red shirts were Sno and Akinde.

Sno was really strong on the ball like always, and 9 times out of 10 was moving forward and forcing the Cardiff back line into retreat. Why Johnson brought him off i'll never know. Akinde was fighting for every ball that was hoofed up to him by Nyatanga, although i thought he should have done better when he was on goal and taken a shot instead of waiting for the defender to clear for a corner.

Really disappointed with the city tonight, and after we showed so much promise at the weekend. Hope to see an improvement next Tuesday, but personally can't see it.

[Bris Red]

Poor from start to finish. I cant put my finger on it but we seem to look so slugish at the moment, other teams seem to move the ball at speed and break with speed but we seem to just stay at one tempo and we rarely up it.

Im with Greebo on Akinde, the lad looked hungry and whenever he got the ball he looked like making something happen. As for Saborio i hate judging players to early but he has the Stern John's about him, lazy, not particularly interested in making things happen and genrally not getting involved. Strikes me as the sort of player that wants everything on a plate (like i said identical to Stern John when he was here.)

Sporule looked lively but again seemed to be back to his old self, a lot of huff and puff but no end product.. Hartley looked poor also (i was half expecting that considering the stormer he put in on staurday) and Skuse wasnt much better either. A very shaky Defensive performance aswell, ive said it a few times before and as much as i love Carey i think his legs are shot tbh.

Hopefully we can re-group and put on a better display next Tuesday. Will be very interested to see what Campbell-Ryce can bring to the table as we deffinetly need some flare.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Very true. Except most of the players you list above have put in consistently acceptable performances over a reasonable period of time that mean most of us are forgiving when they have a bad un'. I am afraid that Saborio has not yet earned the right to be forgiven for yet "another" anonymous performance. He needs to start putting in some decent performances first.

Do you know what, that is a very fair point, well made.

What I don't like on this forum is it seems to need a single scapegoat and now LJ has gone, Saborio seems to have become that latest scapegoat, it has been building up since LJ left.

Also people are already slagging off the signing of Ryce Campbell another forum trait.

One question though, when will Bradley Orr's period of forgiveness run out, now he was'nt the worst passer of the ball in our side tonight (and that's saying something) but I can't remember a worse passer of the ball ever in a BCFC shirt.

[Guest]

If we are to progress the manager must bite the bullet. Henderson deserves a chance, indeed I would have thought he could have started tonight, Gerkin is in danger of becoming another Flapper without the big mouth.

Both full backs were poor defending and offered nothing going forward, Chopra may not be your favourite person but he caused us lots of problems. I hope Nicky watched him closely.

Sno was excellent when he had the ball, but again perhaps too quick a thinker for this standard.

Cardiffs first win in 5? probably says it all. We won't be relegated, and we aren't heading for the play offs anytime soon, so play an attacking formation at home, and hope to attract more customers,5 in the middle away, and give the hungry youngsters a chance. If their not up to it, it will soon show, and then GJ can say I told you so, If they shape up City will benefit.

[Portland Bill]

FFS Why Sno ? I really hope i am proved wrong and Saborio actually earns his pay tonite.

Because most of the game passed Sno by, hes a player who needs the ball infront of him not with his back to goal.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I really can't get my head round why Sno was substituted. A truly flabbergasting decision.

Our outstanding player on the night, oozing class and the one who would have been most likely to thread through a chance for Akinde.

Skuse, for once, was awful tonight, yet instead of putting him out of his misery we take off the one player Cardiff couldn't get the ball off and was the hub of our team.

If you're going to take off a creative player who can retain possession and run with the ball, then at least replace him with a similar type in Williams.

Better still don't take off your best player in the first place.

I bet Cardiff couldn't believe their luck as they were all over us after that and in the end the scoreline flattered us.

Just bewildering.

[mindjuicer]

When we had our best players on the pitch we weren't playing 4-4-2. We played 4-4-2 on Saturday a lot better than we played 4-5-1 tonight.

I'm confused, We had 2 upfront all the time.  Or a 4-4-1-1 if you like which switched to a 4-4-2 when Sno was subbed.

We were effectively playing 4-4-1 for the last half hour as we had at least one player out there who was totally anonymous.

By that criteria it was a 0-0-0.  There were several players worse than Saborio.  And this is the kind of scapegoating that I'm hoping the forum should be above.

And how can you talk about an "excellent" 35 minutes when Cardiff's keeper never had a bloody shot to save? An "excellent" 35 minutes is when you tear a team apart, create chances and find yourselves 3-0 to the good.

That would be a "barely believable" 35 mins.   

I suggest looking at the first 2 pages of this thread.  The fact we were dire in the 2nd half doesn't negate what happened in the first. 

Baadiff didn't score a proper goal against us.  Up until their fluke goal we were the better team.

We lost primarily for exactly the same reasons we've lost so many matches and leads: jinxing ourselves and defeatism.  Even Hartley was infected with the latter.

We've improved somewhat - a couple of games we've turned it round and scored in OT.  But I'm not sure the defeatism will be fixed without a bloody good psychologist.

[Andy082005]

I'm confused, We had 2 upfront all the time. Or a 4-4-1-1 if you like which switched to a 4-4-2 when Sno was subbed.

By that criteria it was a 0-0-0. There were several players worse than Saborio. And this is the kind of scapegoating that I'm hoping the forum should be above.

That would be a "barely believable" 35 mins.

I suggest looking at the first 2 pages of this thread. The fact we were dire in the 2nd half doesn't negate what happened in the first.

Baadiff didn't score a proper goal against us. Up until their fluke goal we were the better team.

We lost primarily for exactly the same reasons we've lost so many matches and leads: jinxing ourselves and defeatism. Even Hartley was infected with the latter.

We've improved somewhat - a couple of games we've turned it round and scored in OT. But I'm not sure the defeatism will be fixed without a bloody good psychologist.

I must have gone to a different Stadium to be honest and watched a different game, I thought City were extremely poor last night. You can say we looked the better times, but that was more to do with the fact Cardiff were just as poor, not that we were better.

We didnt have 2 up front all the time, Maynard looked on his own and Sno seemed to be playing a bit deeper. If he was upfront, and it was meant to be 4-4-2, I would have to question why Sno was playing up front, whilst two strikers are on the bench? Gary and his tinkering baffles me, it really does....Chelsea may be able to do it with the players they have, but we cant. 4-4-2...simple. Thats Two centre defenders, a right back, a left back, two centre midfielders, a PROPER left midfielder, a PROPER right midfielder, and two PROPER centre forwards

Last night was a great chance to give Akinde a go, ok...the lads raw, and he is learning....but when is he going to get given the chance to learn, he has to be blood sooner or later. Next Tuesday isnt really the greatest time, as its a massive game for us where 3 points is rather crucial. Last night would have been idea.

I totally agree with your last point though. The defeatest attitude was there for all to see, even Saturday against preston...as soon as they pulled it back to 2-1...for the remainder of the first half, the life was sucked out of City.

The problem with City is it isnt improving. You can predict how games are going to pan out now, and you can predict what Garys post match comments are going to be. "We need to be more clever in the final third"....well Gary, you have been saying that for 18 months now and we are slowly getting worse, something has to change.

[chipdawg]

I'm a bit suprised at the 'Akinde Love-in' thats occurring on these pages. Don't get me wrong, i rate the kid, but not once did he manage to fully get away from a marker and none of his headers went anywhere near a team-mate. He showed great endeavour and work rate, but no creative spark and his presence altered the way we played the game. Last season everyone was moaning about the lack of creativity and all the long balls being pumped in to Adebola and now your essentially advocating the same thing? If Akinde was given a run in the side i would give it three games before the same people clamouring for inclusion are moaning about the style of football- regardless of the results. It just beggars belief

I really think in retrospect we probably just need to chalk this one down as a bad night and concentrate on next Tuesday. Everyone played badly after the opening 30 mins (during which we'd actually been the better team IMO) and thats that. This game hinged on 2 substitutions; Cardiff bringing Chopra on and Johnson taking Sno off. I am starting to get the feeling that Gary is currently clutching at straws with regards to team selection...

[Andy082005]

I'm a bit suprised at the 'Akinde Love-in' thats occurring on these pages. Don't get me wrong, i rate the kid, but not once did he manage to fully get away from a marker and none of his headers went anywhere near a team-mate. He showed great endeavour and work rate, but no creative spark and his presence altered the way we played the game. Last season everyone was moaning about the lack of creativity and all the long balls being pumped in to Adebola and now your essentially advocating the same thing? If Akinde was given a run in the side i would give it three games before the same people clamouring for inclusion are moaning about the style of football- regardless of the results. It just beggars belief

I really think in retrospect we probably just need to chalk this one down as a bad night and concentrate on next Tuesday. Everyone played badly after the opening 30 mins (during which we'd actually been the better team IMO) and thats that. This game hinged on 2 substitutions; Cardiff bringing Chopra on and Johnson taking Sno off. I am starting to get the feeling that Gary is currently clutching at straws with regards to team selection...

and he has been all season.

I agree with you on the Akinde front, my gripe inst just not starting with Akinde, my gripe is that he never seems to give any of the younger lads a chance. Wilson, Riberio etc....Riberio was bought back from his loan early, why?? now he is just rotting in the reserves (unless he is injured, if so..I take it back)

[mindjuicer]

I must have gone to a different Stadium to be honest and watched a different game, I thought City were extremely poor last night.

You don't think Sno created some great attacking moves in the first half?

We didnt have 2 up front all the time, Maynard looked on his own and Sno seemed to be playing a bit deeper.

So 4-4-1-1 like I said. :tongue:

I totally agree with your last point though. The defeatest attitude was there for all to see, even Saturday against preston...as soon as they pulled it back to 2-1...for the remainder of the first half, the life was sucked out of City.

The problem with City is it isnt improving. You can predict how games are going to pan out now, and you can predict what Garys post match comments are going to be. "We need to be more clever in the final third"....well Gary, you have been saying that for 18 months now and we are slowly getting worse, something has to change.

Don't think we're getting worse, got better slightly, in the sense that for significant parts of the game we look confident, hungry for the ball (rather than avoiding making mistakes), decent attacking play and occasionally equalising in OT.

You can't be surprised when an own-goal knocks the stuffing out of a team that's struggling for confidence.

We should have a fully healthy squad for the Baadiff re-rematch including a proper left winger. We win that one and we'll be 7th or 8th and only a point or 2 off the play-off zone.

There's going to be ups and downs all the way and I wouldn't bet on us but you never know...

[Andy082005]

You don't think Sno created some great attacking moves in the first half?

So 4-4-1-1 like I said.

Don't think we're getting worse, got better slightly, in the sense that for significant parts of the game we look confident, hungry for the ball (rather than avoiding making mistakes), decent attacking play and occasionally equalising in OT.

You can't be surprised when an own-goal knocks the stuffing out of a team that's struggling for confidence.

We should have a fully healthy squad for the Baadiff re-rematch. Finally signed a left winger. Only 3 points off the playoffs.

There's going to be ups and downs all the way and I wouldn't bet on us but you never know...

not particularly. We defended well, and we play some great football, but we just never create anything decent. How many times last night can you remember thinking "ooooooh bloody hell, that was close"

I cant recall one

Next week is going to be such an important game for us. A win is essential in my eyes, not just for league positioning...but for confidence. A win next week could really kick us on....and i use the word "could" loosely

[Alex_BCFC]

How many times last night can you remember thinking "ooooooh bloody hell, that was close"

About 6 times. But all for Cardiff. I can't believe people are even thinking of saying we were the better side. To do that you need to create clear cut chances to give yourself a chance of winning.

We are OK at passing it around midfield etc. But we just don't create many decent chances (Preston excepted). No wonder Saborio is hated by so many here (not me by the way)- he never gets any chances so I can see why he has only scored one. I mean even Maynard's wonder goals have dried up except QPR and that is why he only has one since about October.

[Tunley Legend]

I'm a bit suprised at the 'Akinde Love-in' thats occurring on these pages. Don't get me wrong, i rate the kid, but not once did he manage to fully get away from a marker and none of his headers went anywhere near a team-mate. He showed great endeavour and work rate, but no creative spark and his presence altered the way we played the game. Last season everyone was moaning about the lack of creativity and all the long balls being pumped in to Adebola and now your essentially advocating the same thing? If Akinde was given a run in the side i would give it three games before the same people clamouring for inclusion are moaning about the style of football- regardless of the results. It just beggars belief

I really think in retrospect we probably just need to chalk this one down as a bad night and concentrate on next Tuesday. Everyone played badly after the opening 30 mins (during which we'd actually been the better team IMO) and thats that. This game hinged on 2 substitutions; Cardiff bringing Chopra on and Johnson taking Sno off. I am starting to get the feeling that Gary is currently clutching at straws with regards to team selection...

You are falling into the same trap as both our full backs - thinking that just because Akinde is big he must be a static target man who you lump a high ball to. Nothing could be further from the truth as he likes to be facing goal in wider areas and running his Centre Half - that is what he does best. Akinde should be given a run to show what he can do, nothing whatsoever to do with a "love-in", and the likes of Orr, McAllister and Nyatanga should be told in no uncertain terms that they should not be lumping the ball up to him every time they get it - unless that is the will of the Manager himself of course!!

[mindjuicer]

not particularly.  We defended well, and we play some great football, but we just never create anything decent.  How many times last night can you remember thinking "ooooooh bloody hell, that was close"

I'd cite when Sno beat about 6 Cardiff players including the goalie with a low cross 1m parallel to the goalline as an example.

Until a few weeks ago, we've had bugger all in the final third.  Now we're getting some crosses and decent passes in - and the sticking point has been more about positioning for the shot.

Saborio has 2 goals this season.

[Tunley Legend]

I'd cite when Sno beat about 6 Cardiff players including the goalie with a low cross 1m parallel to the goalline as an example.

Until a few weeks ago, we've had bugger all in the final third. Now we're getting some crosses and decent passes in - and the sticking point has been more about positioning for the shot.

Saborio has 2 goals this season.

With JCR now here, and presumably not here to collect splinters up his ar$e, it will be interesting to see how Saborio plays. Surely we will see a direct approach from the new man (that is how I remember him anyway) and there should be a few crosses pinging round the box for our front lads to get on to. Sno is the conundrum for me - 4-4-2 is the formation our players UNDERSTAND and seem to respond best to (not 4-4-1-1 or any other variation) - how do we fit Sno in unless we drop Hartley or Skuse? However, Sno showed last night that he has a lot more quality on the ball than the vast majority of players on our books and it needs to be used in some way!!

[chipdawg]

You are falling into the same trap as both our full backs - thinking that just because Akinde is big he must be a static target man who you lump a high ball to. Nothing could be further from the truth as he likes to be facing goal in wider areas and running his Centre Half - that is what he does best. Akinde should be given a run to show what he can do, nothing whatsoever to do with a "love-in", and the likes of Orr, McAllister and Nyatanga should be told in no uncertain terms that they should not be lumping the ball up to him every time they get it - unless that is the will of the Manager himself of course!!

Whether I, Lewin, Bradley or anyone else falls into the trap is irrelevant; it happens, it happened all last season with Dele up front and while i agree Big John has alot of potential, he doesn't yet have the smarts to use his abilities correctly. It would be interesting to see him play right wing IMO; he reminds me of Heskey in so many ways and Heskey first came to prominence playing left wing at Liecester. I'm sure this isn't a long term positional change (it would be a waste of his physicality) but it might teach him how best to run at defenders

Anyway, as much promise as the lad has, we were crap after he came on and while that isn't necessarily his fault, it doesn't indicate to me that he should be starting up front at the moment. I suspect Haynes will be back next match or i'd like to see Clarkson given a start as a striker rather than a midfielder or winger

[mindjuicer]

With JCR now here, and presumably not here to collect splinters up his ar$e, it will be interesting to see how Saborio plays. Surely we will see a direct approach from the new man (that is how I remember him anyway) and there should be a few crosses pinging round the box for our front lads to get on to. Sno is the conundrum for me - 4-4-2 is the formation our players UNDERSTAND and seem to respond best to (not 4-4-1-1 or any other variation) - how do we fit Sno in unless we drop Hartley or Skuse? However, Sno showed last night that he has a lot more quality on the ball than the vast majority of players on our books and it needs to be used in some way!!

I don't buy this "we only understand 4-4-2" argument.  One of our much lauded victories, at Leicester, we played 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-2.  Sno, was moved from inside left to CM and given an attacking, floating role.

This is where I pegged Sno from day 1.  So this or 4-4-1-1 I'd expect, depending on whether you drop Sproule or Skuse.  Neither of them deserve to be dropped but we've got a very competitive midfield now.

[Rob k]

Do you know what, that is a very fair point, well made.

What I don't like on this forum is it seems to need a single scapegoat and now LJ has gone, Saborio seems to have become that latest scapegoat, it has been building up since LJ left.

Also people are already slagging off the signing of Ryce Campbell another forum trait.

One question though, when will Bradley Orr's period of forgiveness run out, now he was'nt the worst passer of the ball in our side tonight (and that's saying something) but I can't remember a worse passer of the ball ever in a BCFC shirt.

Dont be silly, Orr is exempt from critisisim due to the fact he runs about a lot and is passionate about BCFC apparently, hes fine for another few seasons yet.