Watching City And Rovers

[ralphindevon]

When I was a ST holder in the Atyeo, the three guys sat behind were ST holders at AG and the Mem, still think they are.

I have watched Rovers many times because I love watching live football.

I do however always support the opposition.

I do agree, I would rather see Bristolians supporting City OR Rovers ahead of the big Prem clubs.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

[quote name=mcbcfc' timestamp='1283351791' post='1282686]

Wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near the minimal patch when the gas are playing (unless they're playing us). I don't get going to see teams you don't support I've had the chance for Man utd and Villa tickets but as I couldn't care less who wins I wouldn't go.

[/quote

And I don't get what it is you don't get. Some people have a lifelong love of the game and enjoy watching it when they're no longer young enough and fit enough to play themselves. Is this a crime these days? Somebody offers you tickets to watch one of the best club sides in Europe and some of the most talented players in the country and you "couldn't care less". I don't know what it is that draws you to Ashton Gate on a regular basis, then, but it's clearly not an enthusiasm for the sport.

Primitive tribalism, perhaps? We've seen plenty of evidence of that on the site in recent days - and an ugly, nasty sight it is, too, when one of our own players, not to mention our manager, is villified by spiteful, small minded bigots masquarading as football supporters. I have held back until now from participating in any of the distateful slanging matches that have been raging over this and other, similar issues, but I reacted to your post because you've revealed, unknowingly I suspect, the mindset that underlies much of the bile that's been spewed forth on the site lately.

You may not be a football hooligan yourself, but your attitudes are no different from theirs and your motives for following City appear to be little different from those of the morons who attacked a Millwall coach a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't be so eager to publicise it if I were you. It says more about you than you meant to disclose and it's nothing to be proud of.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

The only part of CliftonCliffs post I agree with is that some of the things that have been said about Akinde have been pretty ugly, the rest of his post is absolute nonsense. What he appears to be saying is that If you hate your local rivals your one small step away from setting fire to their grandstand, I hate my energy supplier but Im not going to turn up at their head office with an AK47.

Why do so many people react with negativity towards tribalism in football, The them and us mentality within a football ground adds an edge to the game as a whole and I believe (Im going to get slated for saying this) makes for a far better atmosphere. The only time tribalism becomes a problem is when it moves outside the ground however lets be honest how often do we see major disorder compared to 20 years ago?

The concept of going to see Rovers play and cheering them on is completly alien to me perhaps because Im from a different era and maybe my life is poorer for the fact that I harbour an intense dislike of them as a football club. As far as their fans are concerned however, most of the ones I know (several of which are regular drinking mates) are decent blokes who enjoy the fact we can take the p*ss out of each other. Given the number of armchair Man Utd and Chelsea fans I see walking around I have respect for anyone who pays their money and goes to watch their own team, especially Gasheads, but Ill give my money to BCFC and only BCFC

[CliftonCliff]

My internet connection's been down since my post and I haven't been able to read the responses until now, let alone answer them. There is a lot to take in.

I could end up writing something the length of War and Peace if I tried to deal adequately with everything that's been said, both in support and in criticism of my post, but heaven forbid I should bore you. (Although of course you could exercise the option simply to stop reading: that part of your post reminds one of people who sit in front of the TV for 5 hours every evening and then complain there's nothing worth watching). I will try to answer just a few points as concisely as I can, but the issues are very complex and inter-connecting. They are also, I believe, to do with things that are very important.

If you look back over my posting history I think you'll find that as a rule I am pretty restrained. I try to be objective and one reason I sat back for quite a while and wrote nothing on the subject was that some of the stuff being posted was so venomous, unfair and outrageous that it was practically impossible to comment without sinking to the same level. I will readily admit that I was, for me, unusually angry at the time I wrote what I did, and I can see why some people think it was an over-reaction. Contrary to your accusations of 'elitism', I respect their opinions and have reflected on them, as I always try to do when engaged in debate on the forum. I would only say that, as strong as my post was, it was at least couched in respectable language and I would argue that compared with some of what preceded it on the forum in the last week it was actually still relatively mild. But it was at the same time hard-hitting (as subsequent responses show) - because it was meant to be. Among other things, I was trying to get people to look at themselves and consider what underlies these really quite extreme expressions of antipathy towards another group of human beings solely on the grounds of their football allegiances. (And I would point out that if similar comments were made publicly and in writing about a group based on their religion or skin colour, it would, I believe, actually be an offence under current legislation).

A few months ago, another poster on the forum wrote something along the lines that he wouldn't want his daughter to marry a Rovers fan. They are, he stated, not like the rest of us: they're a funny lot; they think differently; he could never bring himself to trust one of them, and so on. (I'm paraphrasing, but I promise you I am not exaggerating or distorting the essential meaning). I read it, blinked, read it again, thought "It's a wind-up; he's having a laugh", then read it yet again and realised he was perfectly serious. I found this positively breath-taking as well as quite disturbing. He might as well have been talking about aliens from another planet.

It's this irrational hostility that I'm attacking in my post and it is the basis of much of the sickening hooliganism that many of us witnessed in the 70sand 80s, and which still erupts occasionally today. And that's why I regard what I've called this 'mindset' as unhealthy and potentially dangerous. And I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but it is bigotry. What else would you call it, in all honesty? I would also ask you to read my post again carefully: I did not accuse the person I was replying to of being a hoolgan. What I said, and what I'm repeating here, hopefully in more reasoned terms that you will not object to, is not that all those who've posted the stuff I'm taking issue with are violent hoolgans, but that they are expressing attitudes more or less identical to those of the people who do commit those crimes. I am not trying to seize the high ground, either: it was not a moral argument I was putting forward, but - if you like - a psychological one. It's just that it frankly shocks, alarms and disappoints me that so many members appear to feel this way.

One irony in your post that appears lost on you is that you have tried to do to me precisely what you accuse me of doing to others - that is pigeon-holeing me on the basis of very little knowledge as being elitist and intellectually arrogant. I may be wrong, of course, but I don't think many people who know me would recognise me in that description, and as I've said, I think you would agree that it's not borne out by anything I've contributed to the forum in the past. Check out my profile, if you haven't already, and you'll see I come from a pretty humble background. I don't consider myself superior to anyone else here but I do find repugnant some views that have been recently aired and reserve the right to use equally strong words to repudiate them.

Look, a Rovers supporter is an ordinary bloke like you and me. I grew up in south Bristol and had a Dad who supported City and took me to games. The only difference between me, you and "them" is that most of them had almost identical childhood experiences, except theirs was in east Bristol. Does this make them automatically deserving of your complete contempt? I simply don't know how you can defend some of the stuff expressing that attitude, or why you'd want to.

For the record, I've been City through and through since I was a kid and will never support another side, but when I was studying in the Potteries, I occasionally went to watch the nearest team, who happened to be Stoke, and who then as now were in the top flight. I got to see the likes of Best and Charlton play against them and have never forgotten it - because I love football. When I had to live in London for two years, I sometimes watched Arsenal and very occasionally other teams, including QPR - because I love football. My attitude to Rovers as a club is largely one of indifference, though I get caught up in the rivalry like we all do to some extent. I sometimes smile whan they lose and groan when they win. If they disappeared tomorrow, I might feel some sympathy after what nearly happened to us in '82, but I'd no doubt get over it pretty quickly and forget they ever existed. In short, I don't care much about them, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't set foot in their stadium if I wanted to see a game for some reason and I certainly don't "hate" them. It's madness - almost literally. They're just people, for Christ's sake.

That's my position. I'm sorry if I've offended some of you, but as you can see I feel strongly about this.

Rant over.

[BCFC_Dan]

Coming from Gloucestershire, I've mainly watched both City and Forest Green Rovers. Watching Bristol Rovers would mean a trip to Bristol, which simply wouldn't be worth it when Forest Green are just up the road.

Since moving away 10 years ago I've been more of a part time supporter of both clubs anyway. When I lived in High Wycombe I had a season ticket at City but occasionally went to watch Wycombe, Reading and once even Northampton. Since living in Leeds my football watching has been limited to TV, City and FGR away games and the occasional home game when I travel down.

This season I fancy watching a bit more live football but I don't really want to watch Leeds Utd. Not through any real antipathy towards them or their supporters, it just doesn't appeal. So instead I've decided to try Guiseley AFC in the Blue Square North. Non-league games are cheaper and I prefer the atmosphere (though I must say the players, supporters, and in particular the management of Hyde FC, their opponents on Monday, were amongst the more unpleasant I've encountered.)

I can never really muster the enthusiasm to "hate" another team or its supporters. There are teams and individuals I like and those I don't, but Bristol Rovers are just a club like any other. They're not evil, they're not stupid and they're not even all that bad at football. In my limited experience I've found their supporters to be quite an interesting and knowledgeable bunch and I like to hear their opinions on the goings-on at City because they generally have a good knowledge of the situation but a very different viewpoint.

[CliftonCliff]

The only part of CliftonCliffs post I agree with is that some of the things that have been said about Akinde have been pretty ugly, the rest of his post is absolute nonsense. What he appears to be saying is that If you hate your local rivals your one small step away from setting fire to their grandstand, I hate my energy supplier but Im not going to turn up at their head office with an AK47.

Why do so many people react with negativity towards tribalism in football, The them and us mentality within a football ground adds an edge to the game as a whole and I believe (Im going to get slated for saying this) makes for a far better atmosphere. The only time tribalism becomes a problem is when it moves outside the ground however lets be honest how often do we see major disorder compared to 20 years ago?

The concept of going to see Rovers play and cheering them on is completly alien to me perhaps because Im from a different era and maybe my life is poorer for the fact that I harbour an intense dislike of them as a football club. As far as their fans are concerned however, most of the ones I know (several of which are regular drinking mates) are decent blokes who enjoy the fact we can take the p*ss out of each other. Given the number of armchair Man Utd and Chelsea fans I see walking around I have respect for anyone who pays their money and goes to watch their own team, especially Gasheads, but Ill give my money to BCFC and only BCFC

I had to smile at your opening paragraph, mate. Not quite what I was trying to imply, as you'll have seen if you've read my subsequent post, but point - and humour - taken.

What also amuses me is that you say you disagree with most of what I've said, but than go on to add comments that appear to do the opposite, or at least that I have no difficulty at all in agreeing with. I don't think we're as far apart as you suggest.

Among the fundamentals of human nature, in so far as I understand it, are the facts that we are (1) tribal and (2) territorial. This is why immigration is such a tricky subject. Even the most liberal among us would feel marginalised and threatened if every house in neighbouring streets to our own were suddenly to become occupied by people from another culture. It's in our nature to feel wary of difference and that can lead to hostility. Ethnic wars have been fought and genocide committed for essentially these reasons.

On the other hand, if you don't feel overwhelmed by them and mingle with those same people on your own terms, you discover that, surprise, surprise, like Rovers supporters in your example, they turn out to be just ordinary blokes who you can have a pint and a laugh with. It's the complete and utter failure to comprehend that which leads to the abuse of Akinde that you say you deplore as much as I do. ((And we are far from alone in that, by the way).

Sport is one ritualised means of channeling these confrontational urges, in a way that is bounded by rules that are accepted by mutual consent and, in that sense, I agree with you absolutely about football rivalries. They give us a safe and healthy context in which to get these things out of our system, so to speak, on a Saturday afternoon, without resorting to murdering one another. Of course you're right: it adds to the atmosphere and I enjoy that, too. It's one of the reasons we've evolved the controlled competition between groups and indeed nations that we call sport.

What we're seeing in some of the abuse that's appeared here over the last week goes way, way beyond that healthy rivalry and is, as you've said yourself, revealing of the ugly human tendencies that underly it. We all have within us the potential for hatred of others. It's how we manage and express it that makes us more or less civilised. There was nothing civilised about some of what we've witnessed here recently and as long as some people continue to write these downright poisonous posts, others among us will continue to denounce them. I don't regret saying what I did, only that some people have chosen to misinterpret it.

[CliftonCliff]

name='BCFC_Dan' timestamp='1283438385' post='1283042']

Coming from Gloucestershire, I've mainly watched both City and Forest Green Rovers. Watching Bristol Rovers would mean a trip to Bristol, which simply wouldn't be worth it when Forest Green are just up the road.

Since moving away 10 years ago I've been more of a part time supporter of both clubs anyway. When I lived in High Wycombe I had a season ticket at City but occasionally went to watch Wycombe, Reading and once even Northampton. Since living in Leeds my football watching has been limited to TV, City and FGR away games and the occasional home game when I travel down.

This season I fancy watching a bit more live football but I don't really want to watch Leeds Utd. Not through any real antipathy towards them or their supporters, it just doesn't appeal. So instead I've decided to try Guiseley AFC in the Blue Square North. Non-league games are cheaper and I prefer the atmosphere (though I must say the players, supporters, and in particular the management of Hyde FC, their opponents on Monday, were amongst the more unpleasant I've encountered.)

I can never really muster the enthusiasm to "hate" another team or its supporters. There are teams and individuals I like and those I don't, but Bristol Rovers are just a club like any other. They're not evil, they're not stupid and they're not even all that bad at football. In my limited experience I've found their supporters to be quite an interesting and knowledgeable bunch and I like to hear their opinions on the goings-on at City because they generally have a good knowledge of the situation but a very different viewpoint.

Thank God for a bit of sanity and a voice of reason. I was beginning to think I was on my own there for a minute.

[Lee F]

I HATE the sags and all things connected to them. It is my decision and I am comfortable with that. I have no interest in those ground theiving, 6 toed, caravaners! Do your history and see back to a time when we were in trouble and they were doing all possible to get AG!

Just for you CLIFTON 'hollowhead' CLIFF -

If the sags were playing in my front garden I would shut the curtains

If my Mrs declared her alleigence to the sags we would be parted

If any of my children were gas or married/dating gas I would disown them

When I see people in that awful patchwork shirt I sneer and avert my eyes through fear of blindness

And what.......are you now going to try and anylise me? Brand me a hooligan, war mongerer or worse? I am free to decide on MY thoughts and feelings and do not need a namby pamby PC loving person like yourself to tell me what I can and cant do.

Just for the record I know there are plenty of sags that reciprocate my feelings towards them in the same manner.

I really am City til I die! Like generations of my family before me.

[Northampton Red]

After moving to Milton Keynes and having to work occasional weekends, being able to watch City both home or away has been difficult. Would have gone to the Ipswich game had I not been working and will hopefully be going to the Watford home match. There's also not too many away fixtures around me which is frustrating. I've been to watch the MK Dons a fair bit (can hear the groans already!), and enjoyed seeing them beat Rovers (especially when they were tearing up the netting over the seats) and also against Norwich where they lost 5-1! Will possibly dabble in Northampton too. That being said, I'd much prefer to see a kid in a Rovers shirt than a Man U or Chelsea one. Bristol feels like it's lagging behind in some ways-as fantastic a city it is, the place is badly run and to the rest of the country it's a big grey area that they sometimes think is in Wales. Two competing football teams would be good for the city, regardless of whether you hate them or not. Mind you, on the flip side-if Rovers went bust and City took most of their fan base that wouldn't be such a bad thing either...! I think Cardiff in terms of finance and stature are more of a rival to us now, decent youth set up, (stadium)...they seem to be able to attract decent players regardless of their financial difficulties. It always amazes me how a beautiful, diverse city as Bristol fails to attract more quality, perhaps the lure of Cardiff and the increasing likelihood of the Prem is the answer.

[CliftonCliff]

I HATE the sags and all things connected to them. It is my decision and I am comfortable with that. I have no interest in those ground theiving, 6 toed, caravaners! Do your history and see back to a time when we were in trouble and they were doing all possible to get AG!

Just for you CLIFTON 'hollowhead' CLIFF -

If the sags were playing in my front garden I would shut the curtains

If my Mrs declared her alleigence to the sags we would be parted

If any of my children were gas or married/dating gas I would disown them

When I see people in that awful patchwork shirt I sneer and avert my eyes through fear of blindness

And what.......are you now going to try and anylise me? Brand me a hooligan, war mongerer or worse? I am free to decide on MY thoughts and feelings and do not need a namby pamby PC loving person like yourself to tell me what I can and cant do.

Just for the record I know there are plenty of sags that reciprocate my feelings towards them in the same manner.

I really am City til I die! Like generations of my family before me.

Unbelievable - and actually quite scary. If people didn't get what I was going on about before, they will now.

I don't know whether you realise it but you've made my point for me far more effectively than I could have done myself.

I'll leave it for others to make their own minds up about your remarks. No need for further comment. If it makes you any happier I can promise you I won't be making any further posts on this topic. Your contribution says it all.

[Red Rag]

I HATE the sags and all things connected to them. It is my decision and I am comfortable with that. I have no interest in those ground theiving, 6 toed, caravaners! Do your history and see back to a time when we were in trouble and they were doing all possible to get AG!

Just for you CLIFTON 'hollowhead' CLIFF -

If the sags were playing in my front garden I would shut the curtains

If my Mrs declared her alleigence to the sags we would be parted

If any of my children were gas or married/dating gas I would disown them

When I see people in that awful patchwork shirt I sneer and avert my eyes through fear of blindness

And what.......are you now going to try and anylise me? Brand me a hooligan, war mongerer or worse? I am free to decide on MY thoughts and feelings and do not need a namby pamby PC loving person like yourself to tell me what I can and cant do.

Just for the record I know there are plenty of sags that reciprocate my feelings towards them in the same manner.

I really am City til I die! Like generations of my family before me.

[/quote

Agree with Cliff, I think you may have just proved his point. God help us.

[Pewsham]

I wouldnt go to the extent of watching Rovers on a spare afternoon. I have been known to attend matches at Twerton (to watch Bath City), or at The Rec to see Bath Rugby. I have been known to turn up at Swindon though as well as Hardenhuish Park (Chippenham Town) and didnt feel a traitor about being a City fan. Ive watched matches at St James' Park, Nou Camp, Fir Hill, Tannadice, Twickenham, The Stoop, Millmoor, Bramall Lane, The Galpharm, Villa Park, Highbury, Murrayfield, Roker Park, Craven Cottage etc etc - all without City within a hundred miles of where I was. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I'm a City fan first and foremost, I enjoy watching other sports and enjoy being at other venues, sitting with other fans, acknowledging their views and exchanging banter (not abuse, banter). I just wouldnt turn up at The Gas because as far as I'm concerned they are Citys biggest rivals and as such are undeserving of my £.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

My internet connection's been down since my post and I haven't been able to read the responses until now, let alone answer them. There is a lot to take in.

I could end up writing something the length of War and Peace if I tried to deal adequately with everything that's been said, both in support and in criticism of my post, but heaven forbid I should bore you. (Although of course you could exercise the option simply to stop reading: that part of your post reminds one of people who sit in front of the TV for 5 hours every evening and then complain there's nothing worth watching). I will try to answer just a few points as concisely as I can, but the issues are very complex and inter-connecting. They are also, I believe, to do with things that are very important.

If you look back over my posting history I think you'll find that as a rule I am pretty restrained. I try to be objective and one reason I sat back for quite a while and wrote nothing on the subject was that some of the stuff being posted was so venomous, unfair and outrageous that it was practically impossible to comment without sinking to the same level. I will readily admit that I was, for me, unusually angry at the time I wrote what I did, and I can see why some people think it was an over-reaction. Contrary to your accusations of 'elitism', I respect their opinions and have reflected on them, as I always try to do when engaged in debate on the forum. I would only say that, as strong as my post was, it was at least couched in respectable language and I would argue that compared with some of what preceded it on the forum in the last week it was actually still relatively mild. But it was at the same time hard-hitting (as subsequent responses show) - because it was meant to be. Among other things, I was trying to get people to look at themselves and consider what underlies these really quite extreme expressions of antipathy towards another group of human beings solely on the grounds of their football allegiances. (And I would point out that if similar comments were made publicly and in writing about a group based on their religion or skin colour, it would, I believe, actually be an offence under current legislation).

A few months ago, another poster on the forum wrote something along the lines that he wouldn't want his daughter to marry a Rovers fan. They are, he stated, not like the rest of us: they're a funny lot; they think differently; he could never bring himself to trust one of them, and so on. (I'm paraphrasing, but I promise you I am not exaggerating or distorting the essential meaning). I read it, blinked, read it again, thought "It's a wind-up; he's having a laugh", then read it yet again and realised he was perfectly serious. I found this positively breath-taking as well as quite disturbing. He might as well have been talking about aliens from another planet.

It's this irrational hostility that I'm attacking in my post and it is the basis of much of the sickening hooliganism that many of us witnessed in the 70sand 80s, and which still erupts occasionally today. And that's why I regard what I've called this 'mindset' as unhealthy and potentially dangerous. And I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but it is bigotry. What else would you call it, in all honesty? I would also ask you to read my post again carefully: I did not accuse the person I was replying to of being a hoolgan. What I said, and what I'm repeating here, hopefully in more reasoned terms that you will not object to, is not that all those who've posted the stuff I'm taking issue with are violent hoolgans, but that they are expressing attitudes more or less identical to those of the people who do commit those crimes. I am not trying to seize the high ground, either: it was not a moral argument I was putting forward, but - if you like - a psychological one. It's just that it frankly shocks, alarms and disappoints me that so many members appear to feel this way.

One irony in your post that appears lost on you is that you have tried to do to me precisely what you accuse me of doing to others - that is pigeon-holeing me on the basis of very little knowledge as being elitist and intellectually arrogant. I may be wrong, of course, but I don't think many people who know me would recognise me in that description, and as I've said, I think you would agree that it's not borne out by anything I've contributed to the forum in the past. Check out my profile, if you haven't already, and you'll see I come from a pretty humble background. I don't consider myself superior to anyone else here but I do find repugnant some views that have been recently aired and reserve the right to use equally strong words to repudiate them.

Look, a Rovers supporter is an ordinary bloke like you and me. I grew up in south Bristol and had a Dad who supported City and took me to games. The only difference between me, you and "them" is that most of them had almost identical childhood experiences, except theirs was in east Bristol. Does this make them automatically deserving of your complete contempt? I simply don't know how you can defend some of the stuff expressing that attitude, or why you'd want to.

For the record, I've been City through and through since I was a kid and will never support another side, but when I was studying in the Potteries, I occasionally went to watch the nearest team, who happened to be Stoke, and who then as now were in the top flight. I got to see the likes of Best and Charlton play against them and have never forgotten it - because I love football. When I had to live in London for two years, I sometimes watched Arsenal and very occasionally other teams, including QPR - because I love football. My attitude to Rovers as a club is largely one of indifference, though I get caught up in the rivalry like we all do to some extent. I sometimes smile whan they lose and groan when they win. If they disappeared tomorrow, I might feel some sympathy after what nearly happened to us in '82, but I'd no doubt get over it pretty quickly and forget they ever existed. In short, I don't care much about them, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't set foot in their stadium if I wanted to see a game for some reason and I certainly don't "hate" them. It's madness - almost literally. They're just people, for Christ's sake.

That's my position. I'm sorry if I've offended some of you, but as you can see I feel strongly about this.

Rant over.

Thanks for the long patronising reply, I wasn't singling you out in the manor as you did I, so instead of picking your above post apart in a seemingly immature manner, I will just bite the bullet and ignore you from now, I think the person here who misses the point maybe you chap, your self importance was exemplified by invitation of "checking your posting history....." (paraphrase).

News Flash: I don't really care that much.

For arguments sake, you are correct and highly intelligent, I am just a mere humble human being, who despises Bristol Rovers and people who think they are superior to one another.

Ignore button again RIP!

[Red Rag]

Thanks for the long patronising reply, I wasn't singling you out in the manor as you did I, so instead of picking your above post apart in a seemingly immature manner, I will just bite the bullet and ignore you from now, I think the person here who misses the point maybe you chap, your self importance was exemplified by invitation of "checking your posting history....." (paraphrase).

News Flash: I don't really care that much.

For arguments sake, you are correct and highly intelligent, I am just a mere humble human being, who despises Bristol Rovers and people who think they are superior to one another.

Ignore button again RIP!

Strange. I read your post as directed at Cliff, after all it prety much quoted him word perfect.

If I am wrong I apologise, if I am not, Stop Wriggling

[WellRedPhil]

It's not complicated or in any way shameful as far as I'm concerned - I'm a Bristol City fan, I don't like Bristol Rovers, never have, never will.

My exact thoughts.

[ashtonphil]

This all seems a little OTT to me if I'm honest. I am not a frequent visitor to the Mem unless its for the rugby, howeverI would rather see a person in a BCFC,BRFC or even FGRFC shirt then any of the Premier League big boys. It shows that they care about local football and aren't simply armchair fans.

I recently met, through my job, a member of the Rovers squad and whilst there was friendly banter and a bit of ribbing, he was excellent at what he wa asked to do and has volunteered to help me out whenever he can. He is a human being, has kids and loves playing football for a living.

Let's just all respect each other's opinions and realise that there are far more important things in the world than hating Rovers

[The Red Planet]

This all seems a little OTT to me if I'm honest. I am not a frequent visitor to the Mem unless its for the rugby, howeverI would rather see a person in a BCFC,BRFC or even FGRFC shirt then any of the Premier League big boys. It shows that they care about local football and aren't simply armchair fans.

I recently met, through my job, a member of the Rovers squad and whilst there was friendly banter and a bit of ribbing, he was excellent at what he wa asked to do and has volunteered to help me out whenever he can. He is a human being, has kids and loves playing football for a living.

Let's just all respect each other's opinions and realise that there are far more important things in the world than hating Rovers

Quite right.

Back in 1967 at the age of 16, I was taken to a Rovers game at the old Eastville stadium by a school friend's Dad. Can't remember who they were playing, although I know they won the game but we were in the old Tote End and yes, the smell of gas from the adjoining gas works was overpowering ! They certainly deserve the nickname.

I say good luck to Akinde, he is a promising youngster and needs more first team games and if he can get them with Rovers, why not ?

You mention the Rugby, much as I prefer the round ball game, I do wish that the sportsmanship you get in that game (apart from the occasional dodgy blood injury subsitution) also applied to football.

[newboy]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one CliftonCliff - I think a very big point has eluded you - it's about passion making us do irrational stuff to varying degrees.

Let's face it - if you look at it objectively supporting City is a fool's errand:

1) If you wanted to watch exciting, technically proficient football you'd watch Arsenal. And you could do that at home for a lot less cash.

2) If you wanted to meet your mates and indulge in banter you could go down the pub for a lot less cash.

3) If you wanted entertainment you could go to the cinema and get a lot more bangs for your buck in a more comfortable setting

4) If you spent the time we all spent on this forum pointless arguing and affecting nothing we could do some pretty amazing real-life changing stuff.

5) Hell we could all spend more time with our loved ones.

And so on. Watching city is often not pretty. There are other ways to socialise. And a lot of other cheapers ways to get 'entertainment'. Other ways to feel a part of a group and much more virtuous/productive uses of our time. If you pare it back this is all a ridiculously illogical waste of our time and money.

But whether it's because you've been bought up to follow it because your father did or there was a moment of magic that captured your heart everyone on this forum talks about City, pays far too much money to see City and spends far too much time involved in watching 11 blokes on a pitch who care far less than they do play another 11 blokes who earn more in a week than many of us do in a year because it's love.

It's irrational. Stupid, Pointless. Expensive. But as much as we kid ourselves otherwise we're not rational people. Hence religion, Fearne Cotton, Paris Hilton, half the rubbish my son buys and Saturday night TV.

And this irrational love affair with a squad of blokes who don't probably care *that* much is why people will travel the country to stand in the rain to be part of that tribe. And yes, it's stupid to spend your life hating a bunch of other people for supporting another less fortunate group of disaffected players, but some people do. It's irrational but it doesn't mean they'll smash their face with a brick. It's just something some people can't help but feel because either conditioning or passion is clouding their judgement.

Doesn't mean it's wrong though. If we all live our lives rationally we'd never experience the ultimate highs and lows that being in irrational love gives. And I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Personally speaking I reserve my hate for very few things as I feel that hate is a waste of energy - I'd without reservation smash the crap out of a paedophile or someone who abuses the innocent in any shape or form, but once you accept that irrationality drives our passion for city, it's not hard to see why some people may feel that way is it?

And unless that passion actually results in physical harm, who the hell are we to judge?

Bottom line is that you cannot apply rationality to this. If you do you must agree that supporting City in any shape or form is largely pointless. Like all of us you must be on that slippery slope of irrationality somewhere and looking down on those who have it in an arguably more extreme form is a form of hypocricy and to an extent an act of denial.

[seebokseduction]

If it doesn't affect how we do, i.e. League placings, playing against us, I am more than happy for Rovers to be sucessful, if anything it'll promote football in the city as a whole! I'd much rather have 2 competitive championship sides in Bristol, it would be excellent, thats if we beat them home and away and finish above them, I can't say hate, but I would never go and watch them play

[herman]

Will not attend the Mem full stop Will not give them my money.Hate the Rovers and everything they stand for .

I still have a cheque from Dunsford (the dad) after complaining about being herded in the open end at Eastville whilst the rest of Eastville was nearly empty or so it seemed at the time .

Yes i do hate them not dislike HATE with a passion there supporters attacked me and my girlfriend at the time and put us both in hospital .Police told us there were around 8 of them and we were attacked from behind Fkin heros ,i still have scars on my head .So yes i do Hate them and will never ever forgive them for what they done especially to my girlfriend of the time .

I am old enough to realise that it happend a long time ago and not every Gas head is the same .... allelegedly

Call me sad and bitter tell to get over it .I HAVE TRIED BUT JUST CANT.

My problem i dont go around attacking Rovers fans because of what they done .I just will not attend any ground where the Rovers have a financial interest.

Oh and Cliff i am not a holligan and never have been i have a very well paid responsible job I just harbour this Hate for Rovers the team fans shirt and as for that song ggrrrr

mate that comment has got me really interested. what exactly is it that rovers "stand for" which you hate? we are not talking about political clubs like st. pauli, or clubs with a link to secretarianism or religion like celtic and rangers. so i guess i must be missing it, what exactly is it in their ideology that so offends you?

that they want to get better and win football games?

that they try to bring a better standard of football to the city of bristol?

that they help develop players who go on to higher things?

they they try to give their fans success and promotions?

i really don't see how any normal club "stands for" anything different than city or any other club.

[Nogbad the Bad]

mate that comment has got me really interested. what exactly is it that rovers "stand for" which you hate? we are not talking about political clubs like st. pauli, or clubs with a link to secretarianism or religion like celtic and rangers. so i guess i must be missing it, what exactly is it in their ideology that so offends you?

that they want to get better and win football games?

that they try to bring a better standard of football to the city of bristol?

that they help develop players who go on to higher things?

they they try to give their fans success and promotions?

i really don't see how any normal club "stands for" anything different than city or any other club.

Herman, dan's previous post that you put in quotes gives a very adequate reason why he hates them.

Read it, take a moment to actually picture the incident he describes, and the consequences.

It doesn't really require further explanation from him, does it?

[Jordan Tansley]

Unbelievable - and actually quite scary. If people didn't get what I was going on about before, they will now.

I don't know whether you realise it but you've made my point for me far more effectively than I could have done myself.

I'll leave it for others to make their own minds up about your remarks. No need for further comment. If it makes you any happier I can promise you I won't be making any further posts on this topic. Your contribution says it all.

I don't really see how this is scary? at all.

I too feel a little sick when I see the rovers shirt, In the same way that if I see someone in a city shirt I smile.

I don't understand much of this argument, accusing people of being gas last week, now the posters over the age of 50 seem to be claiming if you don't love the rovers you're a thug?

obviously I'm over exagerating... But still, its rather pathetic.

Football is the most emotive sport in the world, The passion, thrills, despair and anguish I've felt following city over this country are incredible. Those feelings have caused me to love THIS club with all my heart. Consequently, for the betrement of my club, I loathe Bristol Rovers.

Not in an aggresive way, I wouldn't actively seek out a gas head and take them up on their footballing allegience... nobody in their right mind would ever do that because of a footballing affiliation. But I do none the less despise rovers.

to me, like a poster said above, the point of football (as a supporter) is the rivalries, the banter, the shouting in the terraces, the singing and the aggression. I can sit and watch a game as a neutral of course, but it doesn't compare to the thrill of watching the team you love and seeing them beat a rival.

I don't begrudge you your right to watch the rovers, But I don't understand it. In the same way you don't understand why I can't stand them.

I'd say it's a differing opinion on the game as a whole, Football to me is Bristol City. Football to you is a game you like watching? thats the simplist explaination i can muster.

[Jordan Tansley]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one CliftonCliff - I think a very big point has eluded you - it's about passion making us do irrational stuff to varying degrees.

Let's face it - if you look at it objectively supporting City is a fool's errand:

1) If you wanted to watch exciting, technically proficient football you'd watch Arsenal. And you could do that at home for a lot less cash.

2) If you wanted to meet your mates and indulge in banter you could go down the pub for a lot less cash.

3) If you wanted entertainment you could go to the cinema and get a lot more bangs for your buck in a more comfortable setting

4) If you spent the time we all spent on this forum pointless arguing and affecting nothing we could do some pretty amazing real-life changing stuff.

5) Hell we could all spend more time with our loved ones.

And so on. Watching city is often not pretty. There are other ways to socialise. And a lot of other cheapers ways to get 'entertainment'. Other ways to feel a part of a group and much more virtuous/productive uses of our time. If you pare it back this is all a ridiculously illogical waste of our time and money.

But whether it's because you've been bought up to follow it because your father did or there was a moment of magic that captured your heart everyone on this forum talks about City, pays far too much money to see City and spends far too much time involved in watching 11 blokes on a pitch who care far less than they do play another 11 blokes who earn more in a week than many of us do in a year because it's love.

It's irrational. Stupid, Pointless. Expensive. But as much as we kid ourselves otherwise we're not rational people. Hence religion, Fearne Cotton, Paris Hilton, half the rubbish my son buys and Saturday night TV.

And this irrational love affair with a squad of blokes who don't probably care *that* much is why people will travel the country to stand in the rain to be part of that tribe. And yes, it's stupid to spend your life hating a bunch of other people for supporting another less fortunate group of disaffected players, but some people do. It's irrational but it doesn't mean they'll smash their face with a brick. It's just something some people can't help but feel because either conditioning or passion is clouding their judgement.

Doesn't mean it's wrong though. If we all live our lives rationally we'd never experience the ultimate highs and lows that being in irrational love gives. And I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Personally speaking I reserve my hate for very few things as I feel that hate is a waste of energy - I'd without reservation smash the crap out of a paedophile or someone who abuses the innocent in any shape or form, but once you accept that irrationality drives our passion for city, it's not hard to see why some people may feel that way is it?

And unless that passion actually results in physical harm, who the hell are we to judge?

Bottom line is that you cannot apply rationality to this. If you do you must agree that supporting City in any shape or form is largely pointless. Like all of us you must be on that slippery slope of irrationality somewhere and looking down on those who have it in an arguably more extreme form is a form of hypocricy and to an extent an act of denial.

Absolutely, 110% Spot on.

Post of the week without a shadow of a doubt.

[BCFC Jordan]

I don't really see how this is scary? at all.

I too feel a little sick when I see the rovers shirt, In the same way that if I see someone in a city shirt I smile.

I don't understand much of this argument, accusing people of being gas last week, now the posters over the age of 50 seem to be claiming if you don't love the rovers you're a thug?

obviously I'm over exagerating... But still, its rather pathetic.

Football is the most emotive sport in the world, The passion, thrills, despair and anguish I've felt following city over this country are incredible. Those feelings have caused me to love THIS club with all my heart. Consequently, for the betrement of my club, I loathe Bristol Rovers.

Not in an aggresive way, I wouldn't actively seek out a gas head and take them up on their footballing allegience... nobody in their right mind would ever do that because of a footballing affiliation. But I do none the less despise rovers.

to me, like a poster said above, the point of football (as a supporter) is the rivalries, the banter, the shouting in the terraces, the singing and the aggression. I can sit and watch a game as a neutral of course, but it doesn't compare to the thrill of watching the team you love and seeing them beat a rival.

I don't begrudge you your right to watch the rovers, But I don't understand it. In the same way you don't understand why I can't stand them.

I'd say it's a differing opinion on the game as a whole, Football to me is Bristol City. Football to you is a game you like watching? thats the simplist explaination i can muster.

Agree with this post.

[herman]

Herman, dan's previous post that you put in quotes gives a very adequate reason why he hates them.

Read it, take a moment to actually picture the incident he describes, and the consequences.

It doesn't really require further explanation from him, does it?

my issue isn't that he dislikes them, more that he claims to hate what they "stand for" - i am not sure exactly what that is, which is so repulsive

plus, honestly, lets be frank and admit there are (sadly) city fans who have done that kinda thing to others, i would personally be a bit miffed if someone "hated" me because of their actions

[The Red Planet]

Clifton Cliff

Robbored on here may claim to be the "voice of reason" but you are the man. I agree with your posts on this thread (and several others who share your views).

I love City with a deep passion but to categorise all Rovers fans as enemies or idiots is frankly puerile.

Their club is going nowhere, but we are talking about fellow football fans from Bristol here (although City draw fans from a much larger area than them - which, as we know, for the Gas is mainly North and East Bristol) .

I don't suggest we love them, but please respect them for following their own club.

Every day in this world, thousands of people die from starvation. I am no "leftie" but does not this fact put all this rivalry rubbish into context ?

[Dorset_Cider]

That's completely over the top Cliff.

I can't stand Rovers and you'll just have to take my word for it that it's absolutely possible to feel that way without having any violent or hooligan tendencies whatsoever.

I take great pleasure in their defeats, and am irritated by their seemingly regular last minute equalisers, abundance of penalties etc.

I detest their club song and the very sight of their shirts.

I don't like them one bit and hope they get thrashed every week. I sincerely hope they are relegated.

I certainly wouldn't ever pay to watch them without being 100% behind their opposition.

That assuredly does NOT mean I would ever want to punch one of their fans. It's not that sort of "hate".

That's an entirely different sort of feeling reserved for yobs who would feel the same urge whether it was Rovers or Cardiff, Swansea, Stoke, Mjllwall or anyone else they could use as an excuse for violence.

It's not complicated or in any way shameful as far as I'm concerned - I'm a Bristol City fan, I don't like Bristol Rovers, never have, never will.

That's all there is to it, and I'm pretty sure most posters on here who you would seek to label as "bigots" share those feelings, and nothing more.

P.S.Like the poster you have picked out, I haven't got the slightest interest in going to watch a live Premier League game either. I watch it on T.V. and nine times out of 10 it does absolutely nothing for me.

I totally agree and think the whole thing is being hijacked on a 'PC' level............................ Respect to the majority of 'Gasheads' but not their team..... sums it up for me

[bcfcbs20]

what has happened to we all hate gas scum have we started the great love in from the early 90s all over again im confused

[The Red Planet]

what has happened to we all hate gas scum have we started the great love in from the early 90s all over again im confused

Could you run that past me again ? Not sure I got it first time..

[Ron]

1) If you wanted to watch exciting, technically proficient football you'd watch Arsenal. And you could do that at home for a lot less cash.

2) If you wanted to meet your mates and indulge in banter you could go down the pub for a lot less cash.

3) If you wanted entertainment you could go to the cinema and get a lot more bangs for your buck in a more comfortable setting

4) If you spent the time we all spent on this forum pointless arguing and affecting nothing we could do some pretty amazing real-life changing stuff.

5) Hell we could all spend more time with our loved ones.

While I wouldn't personally travel to the Mem to watch Rovers, this paragraph could be countered by the sentence 'I want to watch live football'.