How Long Should Sl Give It....?

[spudski]

Apparantly we gave a better performance last night, but we still lost 3-1.

We are adrift at the bottom with 6 points from 9 games. We have a GD of -28 to leaders QPR...after just 9 games!!!

Throughout October, we have to play Norwich, Cardiff, Reading, QPR and 'boro... I can see us getting a max of 3 points out of them if we're lucky.

Regardless of the sentiments of giving Millen a chance and getting behind the Club...this is blind optimism and Support.

We have been going backwards steadily since the middle of last season. Facts are facts, and as seasoned supporters, we can see with our own eye's, we are simply not good enough. You only have to watch and listen to Millen and you can tell he knows this.

We have the lingering Stadium issue, which has now become so important to the Club, that it is giving a destraction and extra pressure to what is happening on the pitch.

So....How long does SL give it? Is he possibly going to let us go down, as long as we win the Stadium issue?

Having to juggle both important issues, must be a nightmare.

You have to feel sorry for the bloke...the pressure must be immense. I feel ill just watching our lot...watching City definately isn't good for your health.

If it were me, and we are bottom or adrift with no apparant improvement by the end of October, then i would make swift changes, so it at least gives us a chance of recovering.

Any thoughts Guys?

[Barrs Court Red]

If I was him, i'd take my money to a club with less whiney fanbase, with a forward thinking council.

[dezgimed]

Any manager in the world could come in and we'd all say we wouldn't expect promotion in one season. People were talking on here about letting Coppout build for 2-3 years.

Why does Millen suddenly get 10 games only?

[spudski]

Very True...Although, i think a lot of our whinney fan base, stems from over optimism, brought about by grandious ideas said from the top. Comments along the lines, of having a plan for Premier League football within five years, doesn't help.

[Somerset_Sam]

I actually think Millen can turn it around, but it seems I am very much in the minority on here and the negitivity is doing my head in, so I am going to take a break from this place for a while.

If Millen doesn't and gets sacked I bow down to the majority, but if he does turn it around I may come back to say 'I told you so'

[spudski]

I actually think Millen can turn it around, but it seems I am very much in the minority on here and the negitivity is doing my head in, so I am going to take a break from this place for a while.

If Millen doesn't and gets sacked I bow down to the majority, but if he does turn it around I may come back to say 'I told you so'

You're on a win win situation there mate. Don't take it too seriously...It's mad on here, we all have different points of view, and that's why it must be so hard to be SL and make the correct decisions for the Club.

After all...who is he to judge what is right or wrong for the Club? He's just like one of us, only wadded up, with a fantastic business mind. Doesn't mean he know's football in and out. He has to go on what he's told and judge from that.

Lets hope he make the right decisions from now on.

[Riaz]

Any manager in the world could come in and we'd all say we wouldn't expect promotion in one season. People were talking on here about letting Coppout build for 2-3 years.

Why does Millen suddenly get 10 games only?

Of course millen deserves much longer, but I got a feeling that he isnt going to be good enough.

On the one hand I want millen to be given time and a fair chance which I believe he deserves.

But on the other hand, should we risk our championship status to give him a "fair chance" or should we be ruthless and look for a new manager?

I'm undecided, but I can see both sides of the argument.

[Thornbury Red]

Problem is that getting a new manager in wont solve any ot the current problems will it? We were a shambles in pre-season and its coming home to roost now. We cant win games when well on top and we concede goals too easily. Its down to the players not being good enough - most of the ones who wernt good enough last season are still here and it shows in our results.

All three new signings bought in by Copell are rubbish and have weakened us - hence we are now relying on teenagers on loan. It wont end well. We only stayed up last season thanks to Maynard scoring goals out of nothing and the general relief when Johnson left. Without Maynard we havent got that match winner and are generally poorer at the back hence conceeding more goals. I cannot see us getting to 50 points.

[spudski]

Well I got slated big time because I dared to question Coppells commitment when he opted not to attend City's last two games last season, how right I was, and that gives me no pleasure at all.

I despair at some of the comments that are posted on here, we cannot keep chopping and changing, besides who now would want to manage us? We need to give Millen more TIME, he at least is Bristol City and does care about the club, which is a big plus. We do have the embryo of a good team, we just all need to be patient and not panic.... just yet.

I don't think it was commitment that was lacking from SC, but something else, otherwise SL would have been spitting feather at being left in the mire...much more to it than that imo. The whole story being covered up, speaks volumes...anyway i digress.

How long would you give Millen then? I suggested the end of October if things are no different. When would you decide to make a move...or wouldn't you? Would you let us go down with Millen at the helm?

Just asking, not wanting to argue...just interested in peoples thoughts...

[Donald]

don't think 3-1 is a bad result, especailly considering their 3rd was later on when we were pressing for a equaliser and got hit on the counter, under johnson we would have been trying to defend a 2-1 defeat, under millen we went all out to get a draw but got counter. rather lose 3-1 by going for it, than sitting back playing casual and losing 2-1

Consdiering the performance things are improving and I don't see any reason for change.

remember 10/11 new players, new manager and assistant and lots of new ideas and gelling are forming together.

Performances are getting better results will follow soon

[spudski]

Problem is that getting a new manager in wont solve any ot the current problems will it? We were a shambles in pre-season and its coming home to roost now. We cant win games when well on top and we concede goals too easily. Its down to the players not being good enough - most of the ones who wernt good enough last season are still here and it shows in our results.

All three new signings bought in by Copell are rubbish and have weakened us - hence we are now relying on teenagers on loan. It wont end well. We only stayed up last season thanks to Maynard scoring goals out of nothing and the general relief when Johnson left. Without Maynard we havent got that match winner and are generally poorer at the back hence conceeding more goals. I cannot see us getting to 50 points.

I totally agree with those sentiments...although i would bring in someone new if it's all going desperatly wrong, to try and bring some new ideas and motivate the average players we have. Maynard, when coming back will need at least 3 months to get back to what he was, if he ever does...who knows?. It won't be until next season, imo, that he might be back to his best, and it is a big might be.

[Superjack]

Any manager in the world could come in and we'd all say we wouldn't expect promotion in one season. People were talking on here about letting Coppout build for 2-3 years.

Why does Millen suddenly get 10 games only?

Because at the time Coppout's record suggested that given 2-3 years he would lead us to the promised land. It also suggested that the threat of relegation would at no time be an issue. Millen has nothing on his CV to suggest success at any time in the future, and one look at the current table should tell you that relegation is already a possibility and IMO, under Millen a near certainty.

I actually think Millen can turn it around, but it seems I am very much in the minority on here and the negitivity is doing my head in, so I am going to take a break from this place for a while.

If Millen doesn't and gets sacked I bow down to the majority, but if he does turn it around I may come back to say 'I told you so'

If that turns out to be the case Sam, then please do! I for one will be delighted to hear it. I just don't think that I will.

[dezgimed]

Because at the time Coppout's record suggested that given 2-3 years he would lead us to the promised land. It also suggested that the threat of relegation would at no time be an issue. Millen has nothing on his CV to suggest success at any time in the future, and one look at the current table should tell you that relegation is already a possibility and IMO, under Millen a near certainty.

If that turns out to be the case Sam, then please do! I for one will be delighted to hear it. I just don't think that I will.

Aye but Coppout is responsible for:

- The poor squad

- The poor pre season being decked by every team we played

- The crap opener against Milwall

- The crap game against Southend

That suggests to me we would still be in this mess even with that dick in charge.

Millen is an unknown, he could be amazing, we wont know till we give him a chance.

[Bristol Rob]

Apparantly we gave a better performance last night, but we still lost 3-1.

We are adrift at the bottom with 6 points from 9 games. We have a GD of -28 to leaders QPR...after just 9 games!!!

Throughout October, we have to play Norwich, Cardiff, Reading, QPR and 'boro... I can see us getting a max of 3 points out of them if we're lucky.

Regardless of the sentiments of giving Millen a chance and getting behind the Club...this is blind optimism and Support.

We have been going backwards steadily since the middle of last season. Facts are facts, and as seasoned supporters, we can see with our own eye's, we are simply not good enough. You only have to watch and listen to Millen and you can tell he knows this.

We have the lingering Stadium issue, which has now become so important to the Club, that it is giving a destraction and extra pressure to what is happening on the pitch.

So....How long does SL give it? Is he possibly going to let us go down, as long as we win the Stadium issue?

Having to juggle both important issues, must be a nightmare.

You have to feel sorry for the bloke...the pressure must be immense. I feel ill just watching our lot...watching City definately isn't good for your health.

If it were me, and we are bottom or adrift with no apparant improvement by the end of October, then i would make swift changes, so it at least gives us a chance of recovering.

Any thoughts Guys?

Yeah. Remember how the Gary Johnson era started?

[Superjack]

Aye but Coppout is responsible for:

- The poor squad. Harsh I think. Most of the squad are pre-Coppout. If you look at his signings: Hunt and Stewart - diabolical, Cisse - jury out, Vokes - jury out, James (if a Coppout signing) - great IMO, Adomah - class.

- The poor pre season being decked by every team we played. Probably true.*

- The crap opener against Milwall. Probably true.*

- The crap game against Southend. Probably true.*

*Nb: Millen was around for all of this.

That suggests to me we would still be in this mess even with that dick in charge.

Millen is an unknown, he could be amazing, we wont know till we give him a chance.

Relegation this season will be nothing short of catastrophe and will undo every bit of progress that we have made on and off the field in the last few years. We do not have the time to take a gamble on a rookie that could be amazing, when all evidence so far suggests he will more than likely turn out to be the opposite.

[spudski]

Aye but Coppout is responsible for:

- The poor squad

- The poor pre season being decked by every team we played

- The crap opener against Milwall

- The crap game against Southend

That suggests to me we would still be in this mess even with that dick in charge.

Millen is an unknown, he could be amazing, we wont know till we give him a chance.

I wish people wouldn't keep laying the blame on Coppell...our problems started way before then.

SL chose to appoint SC...when SC left, SL didn't go off on one.Did he?

If SC had just left because, he didn't fancy it anymore, then SL would have gone ballistic...absolutely mental. Think about it. There is more to that story than meets the eye.

Imo...A knee jerk reaction led to Millen being appointed, as it was a 'better the devil' you know situation, as we were so far into the season.

Think about it seriously...If Coppell didn't want the Job when GJ left, do you really think Millen would have been SL's first choice. I don't...

But we have what we have, and have to deal with it within reason.

[Gazred]

GJ got pretty much an entire season of average-very poor performances before he went and whilst i belive we have a better squad now i still have the same problem when asking myself some questions....

What's our strongest 11? Whats our best formation? What type of football do we play? There has been no consistancy in any of those things since at least Johnson's last year with us and it seems Millen is having the same issue. For Johnson it just seemed he had run out of ideas and clearly a fresh approach was needed. For Millen, who did a fantastic job as caretaker, i can only imagine that picking up the pieces from Coppell's spell is proving very difficult for him. If he can just get some momentum going, come May i think these last few months will be long forgotten.

[Bishops Finger]

Aye but Coppout is responsible for:

- The poor squad

- The poor pre season being decked by every team we played

- The crap opener against Milwall

- The crap game against Southend

That suggests to me we would still be in this mess even with that dick in charge.

Millen is an unknown, he could be amazing, we wont know till we give him a chance.

Im afraid millen also has to take his share of the blame from what you have listed above. He also has to take his share of the blame from the last 18 months of the johnson era.

Bottom line is we have been shipping goals like there is no tomorrow for over a season now, that from a defence that has seen countless changes in personell and formation, all to no avail, and all coached by millen.

We also have scored very few goals, and created very few chances for any number of different strikers, again either selected or coached by millen.

I would say he has to take a large majority of the blame for our current predicament as he has been a constant all the way through our problems both creating and scoring goals, as well as keeping them out.

Nothing really seems to be getting better, i struggle to see any sign that it will any time soon.

[Cooter]

I actually think Millen can turn it around, but it seems I am very much in the minority on here and the negitivity is doing my head in, so I am going to take a break from this place for a while.

If Millen doesn't and gets sacked I bow down to the majority, but if he does turn it around I may come back to say 'I told you so'

The problem is that Keith Millen should know the club and attributes of most players pretty well as he's been here years. Our defence is shocking and I can't remember a season where we've leaked so many goals so early in a season. Early days but we're staring relegation directly in the face if something's not done quickly to shore up our defence.

[Superjack]

I wish people wouldn't keep laying the blame on Coppell...our problems started way before then.

SL chose to appoint SC...when SC left, SL didn't go off on one.Did he?

If SC had just left because, he didn't fancy it anymore, then SL would have gone ballistic...absolutely mental. Think about it. There is more to that story than meets the eye.

Imo...A knee jerk reaction led to Millen being appointed, as it was a 'better the devil' you know situation, as we were so far into the season.

Think about it seriously...If Coppell didn't want the Job when GJ left, do you really think Millen would have been SL's first choice. I don't...

But we have what we have, and have to deal with it within reason.

I agree spudski. Unfortunately, when it comes to the manager I think we have to deal with what we haven't got, as "what we have" is sadly not cutting it.

Im afraid millen also has to take his share of the blame from what you have listed above. He also has to take his share of the blame from the last 18 months of the johnson era.

Bottom line is we have been shipping goals like there is no tomorrow for over a season now, that from a defence that has seen countless changes in personell and formation, all to no avail, and all coached by millen.

We also have scored very few goals, and created very few chances for any number of different strikers, again either selected or coached by millen.

I would say he has to take a large majority of the blame for our current predicament as he has been a constant all the way through our problems both creating and scoring goals, as well as keeping them out.

Nothing really seems to be getting better, i struggle to see any sign that it will any time soon.

Spot on. 'Bishops Finger' always has the answers!!

[marmite]

Everybody step back and take a breath. Give Millen time to gel the best out of a large squad. I'd bet we would all select a different eleven plus subs if given the chance. There are a lot of newcomers here at the moment and they have to find out each others strengths and weaknesses before we see what they can achieve. A couple of good results strung together at this time of the season can see you in mid table or higher in a couple of weeks. Panic now and make managerial changes and we have a new man with new ideas but someone else's players and we all know that that can be a disaster. Lets calm down and give the team and manager a chance. No one expected a quick fix when SC left us in the mire. BELIEVE.

[Cooter]

Im afraid millen also has to take his share of the blame from what you have listed above. He also has to take his share of the blame from the last 18 months of the johnson era.

Bottom line is we have been shipping goals like there is no tomorrow for over a season now, that from a defence that has seen countless changes in personell and formation, all to no avail, and all coached by millen.

We also have scored very few goals, and created very few chances for any number of different strikers, again either selected or coached by millen.

I would say he has to take a large majority of the blame for our current predicament as he has been a constant all the way through our problems both creating and scoring goals, as well as keeping them out.

Nothing really seems to be getting better, i struggle to see any sign that it will any time soon.

Excellent comments, to stay in this division I reckon we need two top class central defenders immediately to give the rest of the team the confidence to go forward and attack. If I was the Chairman, I'd seriously consider replacing Keith Millen if we don't get a win on Saturday because our Championship status is now in real jeopardy. We all know how hard it is to get promotion from Div 1.

[dezgimed]

Oh well. Hound him out then.

Like you all hounded Johnson out.

Then give the next manager 10-20 games then get rid of him too!

[InCider]

Any manager in the world could come in and we'd all say we wouldn't expect promotion in one season. People were talking on here about letting Coppout build for 2-3 years.

Why does Millen suddenly get 10 games only?

Very good point dezgimed. Even before Coppell walked, some were suggesting we'd be happy to avoid relegation and build for next season, or indeed the season after. In answer to your question, as to why Millen hasn't been given the same chance, I think that it's down to the fact that he's not a 'big name'. In all fairness, he hasn't been given a chance by some people. It will take time to undo the damaged caused by Coppell's brief stint. Admittedly, some of his tactical decisions have been debatable, but you could say that about any manager at any team over the course of history. I'm not saying that he will be the long term answer for us, but he has to be given a fair crack of the whip. If we are still in the bottom 3 after the next 8-10 games, maybe it will be time for SL to look at the situation, but at this time it would be madness. You can't just change manager every few games. That would be a recipe for relegation.

[spudski]

[Fiale]

I actually think Millen can turn it around, but it seems I am very much in the minority on here and the negitivity is doing my head in, so I am going to take a break from this place for a while.

If Millen doesn't and gets sacked I bow down to the majority, but if he does turn it around I may come back to say 'I told you so'

Well whilst not a perfect reflection it would appear from the poll on these forums that the majority are willing to give Millen time, it seems the minority who want him to go (or say hes not good enough) are just more vocal.

Yes, more time is required though (159 votes [65.16%])

No, he's had enough time and it's not getting any better (41 votes [16.80%])

Not Sure (44 votes [18.03%])

Like in other parts of life the people yelling loudest,protesting, carrying placards make the most noise. The majority are happy (or at least content/non-committed)...

I think the whole of BCFC needs to be picked up and given a damned good shake/re-organisation. Keith has shown he is willing to play his way, has dropped a few new signings and bought in some of his own. He is playing the younger players, and proving he's willing to take the flak to manage his own way. With results improving I hope he will prove to be a good manager - hopefully later in the season, he will then start to act on all the things that maybe irked him in the past about BCFC but he was not in power to change....

[Cooter]

[Bishops Finger]

I dont want to bash millen, he has been a good servant to our club, but something is seriously wrong on the pitch, we cant score and we cant keep them out, a recipe for disaster if ever there was one!

The fact is there has been a massive turnover of players over the last 18 months, but the problems have remained the same.

Granted we have signed some absolute wasters, devoid of any abilty, passion or effort, but it cannot all be downn to them that things have remained the same?

I dont expect promotion, i dont expect to win every game, i just expect to see abit of decent football, abit of effort, afew goals, that would do me. But we have seen none of that for a very long time, a long time where keith has been coaching all these different players throughout, so i really struggle to see how giving him more time will see a vast improvemnt, he has had game after game to sort our team out, both as a coach and manager, and all we get is the same crap on the pitch.

It is hard to believe when you use logic and good reason not to.

[Markman]

If I was him, i'd take my money to a club with less whiney fanbase, with a forward thinking council.

Jeese Louise AVIA - you really are the Number One Fan aren't you? It must be tough being so perfect with all us retarded, whinging and dimwitted yokels supporting City as well - never mind maybe you can adopt some kind of final solution to get rid of us all - or perhaps some people just have a different opinion ever thought of that?

[Fiale]

I dont expect promotion, i dont expect to win every game, i just expect to see abit of decent football, abit of effort, afew goals, that would do me. But we have seen none of that for a very long time, a long time where keith has been coaching all these different players throughout, so i really struggle to see how giving him more time will see a vast improvemnt, he has had game after game to sort our team out, both as a coach and manager, and all we get is the same crap on the pitch.

It is hard to believe when you use logic and good reason not to.

Didn't the 2000+ City supports at Portsmouth say that is precisely what happened at Portsmouth. A lot of the sides so far this season are winning/losing against each other already, there are no easy points. All sides have a bad spell during the season - hopefully this is ours out of the way for this year.