Accepting It For What It Is...

[spudski]

You really are a prat

I've read your posts in the past and your the sort of City fan i'm ashamed of. Typical lout, who thinks he's hard. Grow up kid, your the biggest ***** on here. You can hardly string a sentence together. Canon fodder...just full of insults and nothing constructive to say. ******* knuckle dragger...

[Luke_Ciderhead]

Hindsight or not...It's a recurring theme. In business, you look back at your history and try to correct your mistakes, to improve yourself in the future. The same mistakes are being made, time and time again... I'm behind Lansdown on much of what he is trying to do. But...You cannot deny we have wasted money.

Everyone seems to look at it one match at a time. We have made massive mistakes since getting promotion. We have gone backwards. Yes, we have some fine players in the squad. We have also let some fine players go. By looking at those mistakes and trying to rectify them, surely it would improve things. As it is, we have to go backwards even further, which could mean relegation and a massive wage bill and further losses. There is no gaurentee that anyone is going to want our surplus players. We may have to let them go cheaply and incur further losses, just to get them off the wage bill. Reducing the squad doesn't nessesarily mean it will make more money available.

I can quiet easily see us being left with our huge squad come the end of the season, with no others coming in.

You dont seem to have answered any of the points i've raised. All you appear to be doing is repeating yourself over and over again without actually making any sense, and using a possible worst case scenario to justify your argument...

[Kid in the Riot]

I've read your posts in the past and your the sort of City fan i'm ashamed of. Typical lout, who thinks he's hard. Grow up kid, your the biggest ***** on here. You can hardly string a sentence together. Canon fodder...just full of insults and nothing constructive to say. ******* knuckle dragger...

You're ashamed of the sort of fan that went to 'Boro and is going to Swansea and Leeds? That's quite a sad state of affairs really?

I can tell from this post you clearly haven't read any of my posts in the past.

Bore off.

[red badger]

Reading some of the crap written on this thread, I despair.

Without Steve Lansdown, we'd STILL be in League 1, still signing very average journeymen, playing the likes of the sadsags, Pig Town, Bentford Torquay, Excreata City, the MK Mongs et al, still having a single decent cup run every 10 years, followed by 10 more years of huge underachievement. Wow. deep joy. Been there got that t shirt. Wanna try a new one now.

Anyone who has a REALISTIC alternative, I'd really like to hear it, I really would. I have seen enough shit football, players and managers here, in thirty years or so to last me a lifetime

SL has backed the managers (Wonderson, Tinpot, the Cockernee midget, bottler Coppell and the current incumbent) on every occasion money has been required. It aint his fault all of the above have made some spectacular cockups on the signings and loans front. thats what MANAGERS get paid for, making astute signings. They get it right sometimes, and when they get it wrong, its spectacularly wrong. We tend to the latter sadly. Chairmen back the manager, till they are clearly not an asset, then shift em out. As with what happened to Messrs Wonderson, Tinnion & Johnson.We will see if Mr Millen is the biz. SL thinks so, so we'll have to wait and see.

Bear in mind this is our fourth season in the Championship, and the spine of the team is STILL the League 1 side, few of whom had played at said level, before getting here. PLUS the fact that most of the signings made since, aint exactly set the Division alight, and you'll grasp our current prediction. No lack of effort, and finally no lack of commitment, but look at the sides around us, and there aint many like ours. Most have a good spine of good Championship standard experienced players, wether or not they were in the side before promotion to this league, or once promoted.

Despite this we have just posted a record loss, and I cant see there will be a open chequebook for a couple of years. People say we should stay at the Gate. You have your reason above why, we cannot, if we wish to remain in the Championship. clapped out ground, shit facilities, shit gates, shit players & managers. simples. The ground is past its best. most of our rivals now have better grounds. time to move on and up. its 2010, not 1990.

...but surely the point Spudski has made in this thread and others - in the face of a huge amount of abuse - is that the one constant through the past few years - the man who appointed Tinnion, Johnson, Coppell and now Millen...is Steve Lansdown. If things are going down the pan the buck stops with him. I don't think anyone has to suggest an alternative before they point out that he's the man making the decisions. If the team's not good enough, if we're making a loss, if the new ground is hitting the buffers the one man who can explain why is SL. Nothing against him, but he's the boss, he gets the glory and sometimes, just sometimes, maybe he needs to do a bit of explaining. IMHO Millen isn't the biz - I can't imagine why he's the manager of a club that needed a guy who'd been there and done it to get us into the Prem. Only SL knows that. And he's the only one who knows why Coppell was the man for the job...

[reddoc]

OK, happy/not happy, but there's one blindingly obvious fact that never seems to be answered on here. If we trust Lansdowns judgement, and if in his judgement we needed an experienced manager with a track record who could take us to the next level, how the hell have we ended up with Millen? It's one or the other, and casting aside money, availability etc , surely if that's what he believed then he should have sought out the next man with a comparable record that was or became available. I'm not sure I'd trust anyone who so obviously can't make up his own mind and stand by the courage of his convictions.

[red badger]

OK, happy/not happy, but there's one blindingly obvious fact that never seems to be answered on here. If we trust Lansdowns judgement, and if in his judgement we needed an experienced manager with a track record who could take us to the next level, how the hell have we ended up with Millen? It's one or the other, and casting aside money, availability etc , surely if that's what he believed then he should have sought out the next man with a comparable record that was or became available. I'm not sure I'd trust anyone who so obviously can't make up his own mind and stand by the courage of his convictions.

spot on

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Yes well done Donnie,hard work for you when your up against two very negative depressing posters!

The hypocrisy of some posters know no bounds, last season the anti GJ brigade were absolutely relentless with their negativity and depressing posts, but apparently that is ok and acceptable and here we are in one of the relegation positions and things are probably more grim but because it dosen't fit in with some posters new found views under our manager that is suddenly unacceptable. One thing is sure though I may doubt KM and his ability but I have never and will never lower myself to some of the vile and unnecessary vitriol aimed at GJ, whatever happens under KM.

[WellRedPhil]

To put it simply Steve Landsdown has many faults, but backing the club with his wallet is not one of them. Whether naive or not Landsdown wil back managers and this is obviously admirable. Having said that arguably Landsdown's biggest fault is his ability to appoint a successful manager. In his spell as Chairman he has appointed 4 managers, Tinnion was a catastrophe, Johnson an undeniable success (even if he did stay too long), Coppell a disaster (yes in hindsight, but what will be read in the history books is that Coppell walked away and left us in a pretty f ** ked up situation) and you have to say Millen, considering we were supposed to be pushing on, not the greatest decision. Obviously it's too early to judge Millen and he could well turn out to be fantastic for us but it was a rushed decision and one that not many supported at the time.

Criticising Landsdown for backing Johnson with cash is harsh in my opinion, however to dismiss any faults with the man is naive and downright ignorant and you have to question some of his footballing decisions.

[CiderPunk]

You'd be a mug if you didn't question some of SLs' decisions in the past.

IN THE PAST..... GET IT??? NO, I ******* DOUBT IT.

Anyway,.. anyone who can't see that the guy is on a fast track to shit or bustville ought to remember where we came from.

I'll love this club regardless, and I havent got a clue which way we're heading but I'd prfer to have the backing of Mr Lansdown, and if any of you want to see us back in the lower leagues then I'll see you there, cus i will be.

Goodnight.

[beaverface]

You'd be a mug if you didn't question some of SLs' decisions in the past.

IN THE PAST..... GET IT??? NO, I ******* DOUBT IT.

Anyway,.. anyone who can't see that the guy is on a fast track to shit or bustville ought to remember where we came from.

I'll love this club regardless, and I havent got a clue which way we're heading but I'd prfer to have the backing of Mr Lansdown, and if any of you want to see us back in the lower leagues then I'll see you there, cus i will be.

Goodnight.

Exactly ! You've hit the nail right on the head.

Some of our fans need reminding who actually owns the club. Until we dig deep into our own pockets and buy his shares, or a wealthy backer buys the shares off of him, SL can pretty much do what he wants and isn't accountable to anybody !

I suggest instead of everyone saying what they would have done (hindsight is a wonderful) - how about we all sit back, try to understand the situaion we're in, and enjoy the open, exciting games. At least they're not as bad as some of the crap we had to put up with under Pulis !!

[PhilC]

TBH...even if we were further up the league, i'm already bored of this season. Anyone else feel the same way?

I'm already bored of some of the posts on OTIB this season...does that count?

[WellRedPhil]

Your arguments get thinner and thinner. Stern John the season before had scored 20 goals for a relegated team and last night scores of QPR fans were calling for Agyemang to be a regular starter for them (and forgive me but are'nt QPR doing rather well this season) yes they were crap for us, but that is not GJ's fault they failed that happens, but journeymen and donkeys?, I think we should look in our present squad Sproule, Clarkson, Akinde and the 3 that Coppell signed fit that particular bill.

Johnson must take a lot of the blame for the failure of this signings Esmond, that surely cannot be argued? Stern John is a decent player but he did not fit our style of play in anyway, and it was an ill informed move. The Agyemang signing was a desperate act in what was a very troubling time for Johnson. It was obvious he was running out of ideas and he looked to loan striker after loan striker to rectify the mess, rather than addressing the problems within our squad. Iwelumo of course proved to be a good signing but when Wolves recalled him we signed Stefan simply because we could. It was appalling management, they want their big man back so we'll take this big man. Loaned strikers were not the answer and a hell of a lot of money was wasted bringing in these players.

Johnson of course also signed the 3 players you mentioned. I personally felt, and still feel, Sproule was a decent signing. You could argue Akinde was worth a punt at that price but Clarkson appeared an ill-informed buy. Bought merely on the basis that he scored 14 goals in the SPL rather than what he could bring to the team. 800,000 was a hefty price to pay.

I'm not saying I agree entirely with Donnie, and I actually agree with certain points that you have both made, just as I think Spudski makes some good points but also some nonsesne in my opinion. However to pretend that Stern John and Patrick Agyemang's failures were in no way Johnson's fault is naive. He was the manager and he brought them in and what followed in Stefan was somehow the most depressing of all.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Johnson must take a lot of the blame for the failure of this signings Esmond, that surely cannot be argued? Stern John is a decent player but he did not fit our style of play in anyway, and it was an ill informed move. The Agyemang signing was a desperate act in what was a very troubling time for Johnson. It was obvious he was running out of ideas and he looked to loan striker after loan striker to rectify the mess, rather than addressing the problems within our squad. Iwelumo of course proved to be a good signing but when Wolves recalled him we signed Stefan simply because we could. It was appalling management, they want their big man back so we'll take this big man. Loaned strikers were not the answer and a hell of a lot of money was wasted bringing in these players.

Johnson of course also signed the 3 players you mentioned. I personally felt, and still feel, Sproule was a decent signing. You could argue Akinde was worth a punt at that price but Clarkson appeared an ill-informed buy. Bought merely on the basis that he scored 14 goals in the SPL rather than what he could bring to the team. 800,000 was a hefty price to pay.

I'm not saying I agree entirely with Donnie, and I actually agree with certain points that you have both made, just as I think Spudski makes some good points but also some nonsesne in my opinion. However to pretend that Stern John and Patrick Agyemang's failures were in no way Johnson's fault is naive. He was the manager and he brought them in and what followed in Stefan was somehow the most depressing of all.

As naive as calling Stern and Agyemang journeymen?. I agree desperate men do desperate things and they did'nt work and he had to go, I understand all of that. What I don't understand is all of the hostility towards GJ, it's as if he achieved nothing for us and using their 'hatred' towards him to big up Millen a guy who was the assistant manager/coach during this period and using the 'he was only following orders' defence, which will never wash with me and finally being accused of being negative and depressing by portland bill is priceless FFS him, Mr Gow, Donnie, RR to name but a few were vocal in what they saw and what was happening all of last season and that is OK because?. Bottom line for me is once more 2 differences from last season 1 we play with 2 wide men (but still can't create much with them) and we are in the bottom 3, all of the other frailties in defence and midfield are still there, that is my opinion of our season so far. However unlike the anti GJ brigade, I do not want KM to fail just to prove that I am right, in fact I would love nothing better than have to admit I was wrong and they were correct, because I am and always will be a BCFC fan and hopefully will be for another 53 years, can they hand on heart admit to the same?, I doubt it very much.

[Donald]

As naive as calling Stern and Agyemang journeymen?. I agree desperate men do desperate things and they did'nt work and he had to go, I understand all of that. What I don't understand is all of the hostility towards GJ, it's as if he achieved nothing for us and using their 'hatred' towards him to big up Millen a guy who was the assistant manager/coach during this period and using the 'he was only following orders' defence, which will never wash with me and finally being accused of being negative and depressing by portland bill is priceless FFS him, Mr Gow, Donnie, RR to name but a few were vocal in what they saw and what was happening all of last season and that is OK because?. Bottom line for me is once more 2 differences from last season 1 we play with 2 wide men (but still can't create much with them) and we are in the bottom 3, all of the other frailties in defence and midfield are still there, that is my opinion of our season so far. However unlike the anti GJ brigade, I do not want KM to fail just to prove that I am right, in fact I would love nothing better than have to admit I was wrong and they were correct, because I am and always will be a BCFC fan and hopefully will be for another 53 years, can they hand on heart admit to the same?, I doubt it very much.

There is a numbers of reason why i fell out of love with Gary, I was his biggest fan, The turning point however was I honestly felt that during the Championship Play-off season he started to believe his own hype and got complacent.

Regardless of what happened at the end of the season, whether it was 1st or 7th, Win or Lose v Hull, the squad needed a major rebuild and I believed it was something that everyone could see. We had a great season on the back of keeping the momentum from promotion, instead he stayed loyal to the the same players who believe had peaked.

Over the next year he started making utterly dreadful and constant panic signings, players like Styvar, John, Webster, Clarkson and so it continued, He also appeared to be constantly falling out with many players who were his own signings and just not getting the best out of his signings.

In addition to this his "style of football" was for me WITHOUT doubt some of the worst I've seen in my lifetime worse than Pulis and was all about "Not losing" and simply he just became a walking joke who was out of his depth, but blaming everyone but himself for the problems whilst continuing to waste endless amounts of Lansdown's money.

He almost felt he was bigger than the club and was untouchable.

He did a great job in League one, with effective football, but regardless of our positions it was terrible on the eye.

As for Millen, I think the Turn around at the end of the last season was enough to prove that he was upto the job when he was able to come out of Gary's shadow, he changed the team and style overnight and we became a force again and finished in a respectable position.

For that reason, with Coppell walking.....Millen for me more than deserved his chance and we will be able to fairly judge him once he's bombed out the crap left from past managers.

Much like it was only fair to Judge Gary, after he had sorted out the crap left to him buy Tinnion and Wilson

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just out of interest if we are relegated at the end of this season, 1) Whose fault will it be? 2) Will we need to replace KM?.

[Oops]

You'd be a mug if you didn't question some of SLs' decisions in the past.

IN THE PAST..... GET IT??? NO, I ******* DOUBT IT.

Anyway,.. anyone who can't see that the guy is on a fast track to shit or bustville ought to remember where we came from.

I'll love this club regardless, and I havent got a clue which way we're heading but I'd prfer to have the backing of Mr Lansdown, and if any of you want to see us back in the lower leagues then I'll see you there, cus i will be.

Goodnight.

Good post CiderPunk, hit the nail on the head for me.

The number of times certain posters construct absurd theories and imply that the club is somehow out to defraud the fans is ludicrous. The same dimwits would complain if City were forced to wear their away strip in the FA cup final. Every club would love to have a chairman such as ours: loaded, with genuine passion for the club and a sound business background. BUT NO, the constant whine continues even on a four match unbeaten run. The bottom line is this: we are blessed with one of the best Chairmen in the league, we can be justifiably optimistic about the future of the club, and we have a reasonably talented squad, (albeit too large).

All we can do as fans is support whatever happens on the pitch, whether its great, crap, or in-between. None of the doomsters should kid themselves that anyone, let alone anyone of importance at the club, takes any notice of what they say about anything. I guarantee we've all had someone like this sat behind us at a match setting the world in general and City in particular to rights, when everybody else just wants them to shut up and try to enjoy it.

Criticism needs to be justified before it is valid as criticism. I fall into the trap of allowing these people to annoy me when really I should know better, but when you read the same hackneyed crap over and over and over again, I just can't help it. Thank god for Steve Lansdown and Come On You Reds!

[Portland Bill]

Mr Bung, all i was guilty of last season was stating that GJ tactics were negative and the football was dire.

I wasnt being negative myself, i was saying what most City fans were saying. I didnt personally attack GJ like some did.

We all knew GJ had to go as he had lost the players,fans etc.

The difference now is that KM has had about 12 games, the bloke needs to be given a chance and the constant negativity by "some"!! during those 12 games has been comical.

[WellRedPhil]

As naive as calling Stern and Agyemang journeymen?. I agree desperate men do desperate things and they did'nt work and he had to go, I understand all of that. What I don't understand is all of the hostility towards GJ, it's as if he achieved nothing for us and using their 'hatred' towards him to big up Millen a guy who was the assistant manager/coach during this period and using the 'he was only following orders' defence, which will never wash with me and finally being accused of being negative and depressing by portland bill is priceless FFS him, Mr Gow, Donnie, RR to name but a few were vocal in what they saw and what was happening all of last season and that is OK because?. Bottom line for me is once more 2 differences from last season 1 we play with 2 wide men (but still can't create much with them) and we are in the bottom 3, all of the other frailties in defence and midfield are still there, that is my opinion of our season so far. However unlike the anti GJ brigade, I do not want KM to fail just to prove that I am right, in fact I would love nothing better than have to admit I was wrong and they were correct, because I am and always will be a BCFC fan and hopefully will be for another 53 years, can they hand on heart admit to the same?, I doubt it very much.

I was merely replying to a post you've made and I for the record don't hate Johnson at all. He achieved a lot here but ran out of ideas and he probably should've been replaced before we finally parted ways. He must play some part in our problems at the moment as over his 5 year spell here he managed to assemble a hugely unbalanced squad but at the same time Coppell and Millen have obviously played their part in our poor start. Some of his signings (especially near the end) were poor, and he did waste a lot of money on loans in the final season, but that is history and we will move on. I for one will remember him fondly even if it did fall apart a bit at the end.

There will always be those who criticise managers from the start just as their will be those who defend every action a manager makes. The bottom line is situations change and with them so should people's opinions, sticking to original opinons can be dangerous and often foolish, as certain posters on here have shown.

[red badger]

Ok - so what some of us have been pointing out is that whatever investment Steve L has made in the club, and however grateful we should all be that he's rich and spends his money on BCFC - but is it really a much higher % of his wealth than many on here invest in their ST's? - there have been a few errors of judgement. Here's Steve on the day Coppell signed:

"Steve Coppell stood out - he was a top player and has had a great managerial career. He took Reading and Crystal Palace up, and that is exactly what we want for Bristol City Football Club. If we had the chance of working with someone of Steve's calibre, that's what we wanted to do. His track record speaks for itself - we just needed to judge whether he had the enthusiasm and drive to do the job here. Having spoken to him I believe he has that, and I'm looking forward to working with him and getting City higher up the league."

...which suggests to me that:

a) Steve hopelessly misjudged Coppell's commitment

and b) Millen doesn't have any of the qualities to deliver on what we were told was the club strategy 6 months ago.

I for one have lost a little faith in the people running OUR club.