Still No Signings

[Sydneybcfc]

I think what people fail to see is we are a small club without a big glorious Prem or European history and from an unfashionable part of the football world. Add that to a sensible limited budget and realistically in a game where wages and transfer fees are frightening then who do people think we can sign?

I see a lot of people saying "oohh look that guy signed for that club why didn't we get him?" and the answer is we possibly tried and got turned down or just couldn't afford his wages! We went through this exact same thing in the summer and i'm convinced thats one of the main reasons Coppell left. Holloway at Blackpool in the summer had the same issues and apologies if i'm wrong but i'm sure he said he went through 40 odd targets before finding players that were in budget and wanted to sign.

Its little wonder we buy from below and not above as unlike many of the other teams in the league who are paying players 20+k a week we simply can't afford to do it and credit to SL for sticking to his guns.

[Portland Bill]

So what other player can you get that has been proven to score 44 goals in the Prem in the last 3 seasons ( inc this one) for 18 mill plus add ons, is in contract, and is under 30?

Drogba cost £24 million in 2004

Tevez cost anywhere from £25-40 million depending on what source you read

Rooney cost £24.6 million

Berbatov cost £30.75 million

Torres cost around £20 million

So remind me again how much is the going

rate for a proven striker in the Prem? I'd say if he continues to score at his current level then he would be worth every penny to Aston Villa who are battling to avoid the drop.

Sorry mate you can convince yourself but you will never convince me that Darren Bent is worth 24 million

[Donald]

Sorry mate you can convince yourself but you will never convince me that Darren Bent is worth 24 million

If anything it proves that Bent is worth nothing like the amount he's gone for.

Poor at International Level, did little at Spurs and done nothing at European Level.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar went to Schalke for 14m euro and has scored plenty of goals in europe and international level as well as in every country he's played.

24m is simply stupid money

[Barrs Court Red]

If anything it proves that Bent is worth nothing like the amount he's gone for.

Poor at International Level, did little at Spurs and done nothing at European Level.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar went to Schalke for 14m euro and has scored plenty of goals in europe and international level as well as in every country he's played.

24m is simply stupid money

I think that shows a fairly poor understanding on how things work. Top fees are paid out for players in form, which is why Bent has gone for so much; Not because of what they've been like in the past.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Regarding Lansdown, has to be said- he has done great financially no doubt. We wouldn't be a CCC club without him I'm sure...The stadium and his passion for the club? Great!

However- on the managerial front it has been lacking somewhat. I'm quite sure this will be an unpopular view, but here goes anyway. Of the appointments made in his tenure as chairman, only Johnson can have been deemed to have been a success. The jury is still out on Millen, but apart from that- Tinnion, failure, Coppell, fiasco off the pitch. The appointment of the right manager is arguably the most important decision a chairman can make.

[freezer]

KM made it quite clear we need a left back and a midfield player some time ago.

Many fans thought that such was the obvious long term need he might already have a couple lined up to come in early in January, but that obviously wasn't the case.

The club will get rid of who they can to reduce numbers but, whatever happens, I'm pretty sure we'll have newcomers in those two positions by the end of the window.

KM and SL must be extremely worried by recent displays - City have looked a relegation-bound side far too often and surely SL won't let that become a reality for the sake of 2 players.

What he said.

It seems that it takes the club about 3 months to realise what the majority of fans see!?

[Mr Popodopolous]

If anything it proves that Bent is worth nothing like the amount he's gone for.

Poor at International Level, did little at Spurs and done nothing at European Level.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar went to Schalke for 14m euro and has scored plenty of goals in europe and international level as well as in every country he's played.

24m is simply stupid money

it is when set against examples such as Huntelaar, Van Der Vaart, Torres, Rooney et al.

What is Bent's all round game like, when set against these types of players? Because at the top level, i.e. the real tiop level (CL, top of Europe's top Leagues and the best International teams) as a striker you desperately need a good all round game.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It doesnt matter what his all round games like as set out above he has been brought to score goals and keep Villa up no more and no less. if Villa dont go down then he has paid for himself.

Comparisons with being great and whatever is fine if you are in fantasy football land, this is about getting the best value for money to stay up, and not taking a gamble on some one who cant do the business. Bent has proven he can score for a number of clubs in the Prem and isnt a one hit wonder. Its not about his all round game nor how he performs on an international stage or even should he get to Europe. The footballing snobs here cant seem to see past the end of their nose to recognise this fact.

Ive not commented once whether I think he is some kind of superstar or whatever, just that he has been brought to pay goals, something that in the Prem you cannot say he doesnt do 261 league games and 128 league goals would suggest that is exactly what he is capable of. which is 1 goal every other game just about.

Care to find someone else who can do that in the Prem for that price

True. There was one more example which I read on another forum (but not PL). David Villa one of the best in world terms today cost £27m. Bent £18-24m. Obviously Villa weren't in the market for the former, but yeah he does score goals in the PL. However it may potentially detract from a more fluent style. That was why he wasn't that much in favour Tottenham apparently.

[Mr Popodopolous]

There is also an argument that fees which are perceived to be inflated (maybe Bent, maybe Milner) will in the medium to perhaps even longer term deny English players places at clubs- a manager but especially a chairman will look at said prices, look at payments for the likes of Van Der Vaart, Ozil (12m) and others on the list and think 'Well, does player x in the British transfer market really offer sufficent value for money? Overseas players, that may be superior value for money...'

[Esmond Million's Bung]

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

Because it's not as easy as saying we don't want you please leave ! They can only move on if other clubs want them !

The players are well with in there rights to stick two fingers up and see out there contract !

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Because it's not as easy as saying we don't want you please leave ! They can only move on if other clubs want them !

The players are well with in there rights to stick two fingers up and see out there contract !

Nobody said it was easy, the point is Millen has said that this present window is difficult but the pre/early season window is not as bad and many clubs leave it late.

[ashtonvale]

Nobody said it was easy, the point is Millen has said that this present window is difficult but the pre/early season window is not as bad and many clubs leave it late.

Can I just check what your point is..

You are confused as to why KM didn't immediately ship out those players he thought would not be required, because its easier to do it in August rather than January?

or have I misunderstood?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Can I just check what your point is..

You are confused as to why KM didn't immediately ship out those players he thought would not be required, because its easier to do it in August rather than January?

or have I misunderstood?

Absolutely given that before inheriting the job the edict from the chairman was to trim the over sized squad and Millen knew how difficult it is to move players on in january (he has told us that much) and given that of all the staff at AG he was in the enviable position of actually watching these players perform day in and day out over a period of years and given that the players he is trying to move is the same list of players that most forum users selected to be shipped out when last season ended and when SL & SC announced that the squad needed to be trimmed.

[ashtonvale]

Absolutely given that before inheriting the job the edict from the chairman was to trim the over sized squad and Millen knew how difficult it is to move players on in january (he has told us that much) and given that of all the staff at AG he was in the enviable position of actually watching these players perform day in and day out over a period of years and given that the players he is trying to move is the same list of players that most forum users selected to be shipped out when last season ended and when SL & SC announced that the squad needed to be trimmed.

So you feel old Keef..

having been given the job on the 12th Aug,in the remaining 2 weeks and 2 days, had plenty of time to ship out, for cold hard cash, a number of players.. some of whom had just arrived.. who had lost most of the pre-season games.. who had lost the 1st couple of games in the season.. whose moral was rock bottom..

You feel he had plenty of time in the 2 weeks and 2 days available to him to convince a bunch of battle hardened championship managers that they would be mad not to pick up the contracts of these players cos all they needed was a change of scenery in order to start playing well. Even though most of said championship managers, imho would've sorted their squads out in the early close season..

In my opinion, I think its a big ask... but hey what do I know.. you maybe right

[SC_Red]

Nobody said it was easy, the point is Millen has said that this present window is difficult but the pre/early season window is not as bad and many clubs leave it late.

its always difficult to get rid of players other clubs dont want or dont want to pay the same amount they earn here.

say someone like Yeovil want Williams or Sproule or both but can only pay them half what they earn here. Both players can quite legally sit on there contracts untill the end of the season and then move on as free agents for nothing picking up a signing on fee aswell as there high wages until July. Sproule has a young family so I cant really blame him for taking his money and making his own arrangments for the summer.

I am 100% sure Millen is trying his best to get players out but you need a buyer first.

[BCFC_Dan]

Sorry, I assumed that your enthusiasm to spend on players meant that you were happy to fund it. You mean you want SL to fund new players, as well as the Ground, and continuing to fund the losses caused by our excessive wage bill. There is no such thing as 'investing to succeed' - We tried that under Ward/ Davidson and only succeeded in getting relegated, we tried again under Pulis, and succeeded in signing a pile of sicknotes, Johnson tried it recently and saddled us with a bunch or high-earning journeymen - "wasting silly money" is what happens with about 95% of football Clubs who intend to "invest to succeed".

This is probably the root of your misunderstanding then.

I have never displayed any enthusiasm for spending on players, nor have I even mentioned it. I think you've confused me with someone else or invented something in your mind.

All I've done is defend Lansdown by saying that his decisions, whilst not always correct, were always understandable. I've also pointed out that if the club scales back to a point where its outgoings match its incomings (without a new stadium) then it will never be anything more than a league one club, and it was unsustainable at that level too.

There is such a thing as investing to succeed and it involves building a new stadium and hoping that income is raised to a point where the level of expenditure required to sustain a competitive team can be maintained. It's nothing to do with wasting silly money on journeymen.

[Chappers]

Absolutely given that before inheriting the job the edict from the chairman was to trim the over sized squad and Millen knew how difficult it is to move players on in january (he has told us that much) and given that of all the staff at AG he was in the enviable position of actually watching these players perform day in and day out over a period of years and given that the players he is trying to move is the same list of players that most forum users selected to be shipped out when last season ended and when SL & SC announced that the squad needed to be trimmed.

So, what you are saying is that-

These players are not good enough at Championship level.

They are not in the first team of a struggling Club.

They are earning decent wages.

So if Millen started signing players with the above CV, basically overpaid and under-performing, you would be happy?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So you feel old Keef..

having been given the job on the 12th Aug,in the remaining 2 weeks and 2 days, had plenty of time to ship out, for cold hard cash, a number of players.. some of whom had just arrived.. who had lost most of the pre-season games.. who had lost the 1st couple of games in the season.. whose moral was rock bottom..

You feel he had plenty of time in the 2 weeks and 2 days available to him to convince a bunch of battle hardened championship managers that they would be mad not to pick up the contracts of these players cos all they needed was a change of scenery in order to start playing well. Even though most of said championship managers, imho would've sorted their squads out in the early close season..

In my opinion, I think its a big ask... but hey what do I know.. you maybe right

The 3 new players are nothing to do with my point and even I realise that Millen cannot be blamed for their signing.

But Sproule, Williams, Akinde and even Haynes featured heavily in many forum users lists of players who needed to be shipped out. To be honest with the exception of Haynes championship level transfers for the remaining trio would be a more than a tad ambitious.

My point is valuable time was wasted by not circulating their names to other clubs straight away given Millen's knowledge of their ability and the difficulty of added difficulty of the january window.

and not wishing to be pedantic it was closer to 3 weeks than 2 weeks 2 days.

[Chappers]

There is such a thing as investing to succeed and it involves building a new stadium and hoping that income is raised to a point where the level of expenditure required to sustain a competitive team can be maintained. It's nothing to do with wasting silly money on journeymen.

There is no such thing as 'investing to succeed' - Can you not understand that spending money on players is a massive gamble, if all 24 Clubs did that, only 3 could succeed, and as has been proven so often, it does not succeed. If it was that simple, every Club would do it, and we would not have this regular tale of debt-ridden Clubs nearly going to the wall.

the reason I thought you might want to fund it is simply that you seem so keen for City to invest. as SL is currently paying for Johnson and Coppells 'investing to succeed', which did not succeed, and paying money out for a ground, I thought that those shouting loudest might actually like to contribute, instead of just telling somebody else to keep throwing his money away.

[Portland Bill]

Er convincing who? I asked you which striker you could buy for less than 18 million ( as the 6m is clause dependent) who has scored consistently in the Prem over the last 3 years, is under 30 and in contract with another team? I provided the other figures to show you the going rate for 'top scorers' in the Prem

So who else are you going to get who is proven in the Prem, to that extent I guess by your silence that would be no one?

quote]

Ive got no interest in who else they would buy for 24 million, why would i? All i have stated is that Darren Bent is not worth half that much and i stick by that.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So, what you are saying is that-

These players are not good enough at Championship level.

They are not in the first team of a struggling Club.

They are earning decent wages.

So if Millen started signing players with the above CV, basically overpaid and under-performing, you would be happy?

Que

[BCFC_Dan]

There is no such thing as 'investing to succeed' - Can you not understand that spending money on players is a massive gamble, if all 24 Clubs did that, only 3 could succeed, and as has been proven so often, it does not succeed. If it was that simple, every Club would do it, and we would not have this regular tale of debt-ridden Clubs nearly going to the wall.

the reason I thought you might want to fund it is simply that you seem so keen for City to invest. as SL is currently paying for Johnson and Coppells 'investing to succeed', which did not succeed, and paying money out for a ground, I thought that those shouting loudest might actually like to contribute, instead of just telling somebody else to keep throwing his money away.

*sigh*

You'd do a lot better if you read people's posts instead of replying to things you made up in your own head.

If you look back you'll see I said it was nothing to do with signing players. I'm not even in favour of signing players, unless the wage bill is reduced first.

I've never asked Steve Lansdown to spend a penny of his money. I've certainly never shouted about it.

[ashtonvale]

The 3 new players are nothing to do with my point and even I realise that Millen cannot be blamed for their signing.

But Sproule, Williams, Akinde and even Haynes featured heavily in many forum users lists of players who needed to be shipped out. To be honest with the exception of Haynes championship level transfers for the remaining trio would be a more than a tad ambitious.

My point is valuable time was wasted by not circulating their names to other clubs straight away given Millen's knowledge of their ability and the difficulty of added difficulty of the january window.

and not wishing to be pedantic it was closer to 3 weeks than 2 weeks 2 days.

To be fair to Keef, you have no idea whether or not their names were circulated and nor do I... Bottom line though is it still requires someone to say.. yes please i'll take them off your hands..

and all 3 did go out on loan to Lge 1 sides, so maybe Keef wasnt doing all that bad..

and it was 2 weeks and 2 days.. but that really is a non point.. the main point is it takes three parties to be happy with a transfer and they are complex transactions..

[Ryan_BCFC]

Yawnnnn

[BCAGFC]

Let's face it, the previous 2 managers have left us with players that even East Stirlingshire wouldn't sign and so we now have to fight for Championship survival with players that are clearly not up to the job.

BCAGFC

[Andy Horsman]

Millen took over full time as manager on the 12th Aug, although he knew the night before because after Coppout had told SL he was chickening out he had a meeting with Millen in a pub near Coppout's rented accomodation in Petty France (which is near Tog Hill).

That meant that there was close to 20 days before the first transfer window closed. Coppout who being a fair man had decided to give the entire squad a chance to impress him.

Most people on this forum drew up their own list's of players that they expected to be shipped out during the close season because after all SL and Coppout wanted to trim the squad and most of those list's included the players that Millen is now hawking around to other clubs.

Millen must have known the minute he was given the job the players who needed to be moved on, given that Millen had seen them virtually every day over a period of years and he knew he needed to trim the squad, especially important because Coppout had brought in 3 new donkeys and he himself had brought in 2 very good signings and later 2 loan signings.

So why did'nt Millen ship these players out during the 20 days available to him, when by his own admission it's easier to shift players instead of waiting until the opening of the 2nd window and whingeing about the difficulty of moving players on.

Yes we had injuries but 5 players went out on loan virtually straight away and another not long after, not forgetting the Irish lads who although brought in by Coppout were given their contracts by Millen.

The unforseeable injury crises we have experienced this season particularly among our defenders would have prevented a clear out pre-season., Ribs, Fonts, Carey, Mc Allister, Nyatanga and Wilson have all been injured , and barring Adomah and James, the other 5 added by Coppell: Hunt, Stewart, Cisse, Keohane and Hoban were hardly 'the light brigade' ( more the lightweight brigade'. Added to that, the loss on day one of Vokes, with Maynard and Haynes also sidelined at differing times, meant that Millen's hands were tied somewhat. His signings, Stead, Pitman, Caulker and Rose have added real quality and depth, but have also further swelled numbers. Ultimately the trend now appears to be moving towards mutual termination of contracts to allow freer movement and get 'deadweight' salaries off the payroll and City may have to lose a few more quid this way to shift some of the surplus.

[glynriley]

Sorry mate you can convince yourself but you will never convince me that Darren Bent is worth 24 million

But maybe the fact he has just scored again will make you understand why managers pay so much for PROVEN goalscorers

[Portland Bill]

Er, what I was getting at is who else could you get for that price in the Prem who has a proven goal scoring record in the Prem over a number of seasons and is under 30 and out of contract

Your 'he isnt worth half that 'discussion holds no ground because you are providing any comparable players. You are just saying he isnt worth it and not justifying it, which is awfully trite,

For the 100th time its an18 million flat fee and the possibility of rising to 24 million should the add ons be met.( we dont know what these add ons are so why do you take it as a given as it being 24 million?)

So again, without trying to be antagonistic, and just wanting a straight answer, If Bent isnt worth 18 million plus add ons, Which striker of a comparable 1 in 2 strike rate is under 30 and in contract and is playing in the Prem could you get for that amount?

I've done all the comparison work in my previous posts for you and confirmed, what his peers went for and when. All I want is an idea of whom you can get for that amount who does what Bent can in that he can score goals regularly for any team that he has played in thus far.

The lack of any suggestions means that he is worth exactly what was paid, because there isnt any one else 'worth that' and as per the relegation and loss of 90 million or 100million or whatever it is from dropping out of the Prem then if Aston Villa stay up because of his goals then he has paid for himself.

Your move,Portland Bill

In my original post i stated that Spurs paid 8 million for Vander Vaart, i think that sums up the Darren Bent fee.

Vander Vaart, twice the player three times cheaper . just my opinion like!!

.

[Irishred]

In my original post i stated that Spurs paid 8 million for Vander Vaart, i think that sums up the Darren Bent fee.

Vander Vaart, twice the player three times cheaper .

.

Bent has put Villa one up - he may not be the most gifted player but he is effective in front of goal.