TBW Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I like Millen and would like him to do well, but he is not up to it. Go all out and get Alan Curbshley or Paul Tisdale at the end of the season and let them rebuild some strength within this club ! I hear Curbishley's been looking around Clifton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No, Not fact. I am just fed of people disregarding all the circumstances Millen has faced since taking charge. Red badger REFUSES to acknowledge them This is all a matter of opinion. Just so happens that the opinions of those who questioned Millen's appointment and Lansdown's judgement have been - up to now - spot on. Look around you on here - I'm not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcdeano Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Lets avoid relegation, and review this in the summer - SL has some decisions to make come May time re Millen and all the players in and out of contract I can see David James replacing Millen in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Opinions about whether Millen is the right man remain polarised amongst fans. Those anti Millen point to the current league position, lack of goals and creativity, his apparent lack of charisma and motivational skills. The later two based on nothing more than personal opinion. The current league position however is fact and whilst City are not in the bottom three we are too close to it to feel comfortable. Recent form has been poor and fans have good reason to be concerned. Those who support Millen point to the problems he's inherited. Unbalanced squad, missing influencial players and lets face it a largely sub standard squad of players that untill this window Millen has been unable to do anything about. Millen managed to get the team on a decent run earlier this season and many think that he will turn things around once again.I personally feel that pretty much any manager would have struggled to achieve much with the squad of players currently at City. Most of them simply aren't good enough. Millen is getting the best out of a poor bunch of players but that is overlooked by his critics. Rebuilding takes time and resources. Millen has been in post less than 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I find it baffling that supporting the clubs manager and hoping he's successefull is seen as "blind loyalty". I'm of the belief that is what supporters do. I've said I hope he is successful from the outset and I've never strayed from that view. I support KM at matches but I will certainly question the wisdom of appointing him on here. Supporters actually want what's best for their club, it's not a question of accepting every decision by the Chairman with blind loyalty even though your gut feeling was it was wrong, and the club is struggling badly. You cut out my worries about ST sales when you quoted me - my impression is that the Chairman will get the biggest shock of his tenure at the club when renewals are requested. What I'm reading on forums and hearing first hand is that this season has been the final straw for many long term fans - they've simply had enough and will not be renewing. There is no doubt that the choice of manager is a part of their disillusionment. I will be renewing by the way, whoever the manager is, and whatever division we're in, because I have blind faith and loyalty to Bristol City Football Club - but that doesn't necessarily include it's employees. Tell me Bill, if the bad results continue at what point will your faith in KM be shaken, and should City be actually relegated will you still support the decision to appoint KM as manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No, Not fact. I am just fed of people disregarding all the circumstances Millen has faced since taking charge. Red badger REFUSES to acknowledge them The circumstances Millen faced when taking over, in my opinion, is the reason why he shouldnt have been given the job in the first place. It was Millen who said it when Coppell took over (may even have been before when he ruled himself out of the running), cant remember it word for word, but something along the lines of some times a new face on the training ground, with new ideas and new ways of going about things, could be a good thing. It makes me laugh that people blame just Johnson for the way we have gone backwards the last two years or so. Ok granted, he made some terrible signings that cost a lot of money, but Keith Millen was his assistant, and a coach throughout GJ's whole tenure. Keith Millen worked alongside Gary, and im fairly certain he had plenty of input when it came to what players we signed or didnt sign. I dont believe for one second Millen used to sit saying "yes sir, yes sir....three bags full sir", there whilst Gary led a dictatorship. An assistant is there to assist. Im sure he done his fair share of research. Basically what im saying is, how can we expect the solution to come from someone who was part of the original problem? For me, this club has gone stale behind the scenes. I have posted on here before that I do not believe our coaches (and scouting network) are good enough for this level, and we should have started rebuilding the club 12 months ago when GJ left. Players come to this club, and just dont progress. Take Maynard and maybe Ribierio away , you name me one player who has come to this club....or come through the ranks, and have improved? I cant think of any more. Fontaine and Elliott came on the scene with a bang.....yet have dropped off in the last couple of years and look average at best, why havent they kicked on? Clarkson, Sproule, JCR, Akinde...along with countless others have come along and never improved. Haynes is a prime example.....he came here, looked a good player....then went completely stale. The amount of players that have coem and gone at this club in recent years is unreal Again with the coaches, what do they do on the training field. Our defence makes the same mistakes week in week out, the same mistakes they were making 18 months ago. The same can be said about our complete lack of ability when going forward. No matter what players come in.....we dont get any better. This club at times comes across as having a "jobs for the boys" mentality. "Oh good ol Scotty Murray....lets give him a PR job", what can "Stuart Naylor possibly teach David James? what can Alan Walsh teach our wingers? wingers who are already playing at a better standard then he ever played at. A lot needs to change at this club, and its not just the playing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 The circumstances Millen faced when taking over, in my opinion, is the reason why he shouldnt have been given the job in the first place. It was Millen who said it when Coppell took over (may even have been before when he ruled himself out of the running), cant remember it word for word, but something along the lines of some times a new face on the training ground, with new ideas and new ways of going about things, could be a good thing. It makes me laugh that people blame just Johnson for the way we have gone backwards the last two years or so. Ok granted, he made some terrible signings that cost a lot of money, but Keith Millen was his assistant, and a coach throughout GJ's whole tenure. Keith Millen worked alongside Gary, and im fairly certain he had plenty of input when it came to what players we signed or didnt sign. I dont believe for one second Millen used to sit saying "yes sir, yes sir....three bags full sir", there whilst Gary led a dictatorship. An assistant is there to assist. Im sure he done his fair share of research. Basically what im saying is, how can we expect the solution to come from someone who was part of the original problem? For me, this club has gone stale behind the scenes. I have posted on here before that I do not believe our coaches (and scouting network) are good enough for this level, and we should have started rebuilding the club 12 months ago when GJ left. Players come to this club, and just dont progress. Take Maynard and maybe Ribierio away , you name me one player who has come to this club....or come through the ranks, and have improved? I cant think of any more. Fontaine and Elliott came on the scene with a bang.....yet have dropped off in the last couple of years and look average at best, why havent they kicked on? Clarkson, Sproule, JCR, Akinde...along with countless others have come along and never improved. Haynes is a prime example.....he came here, looked a good player....then went completely stale. The amount of players that have coem and gone at this club in recent years is unreal Again with the coaches, what do they do on the training field. Our defence makes the same mistakes week in week out, the same mistakes they were making 18 months ago. The same can be said about our complete lack of ability when going forward. No matter what players come in.....we dont get any better. This club at times comes across as having a "jobs for the boys" mentality. "Oh good ol Scotty Murray....lets give him a PR job", what can "Stuart Naylor possibly teach David James? what can Alan Walsh teach our wingers? wingers who are already playing at a better standard then he ever played at. A lot needs to change at this club, and its not just the playing staff. Top post, and sums up pretty much how I feel about the present situation.....especially the bit I've highlighted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 The circumstances Millen faced when taking over, in my opinion, is the reason why he shouldnt have been given the job in the first place. It was Millen who said it when Coppell took over (may even have been before when he ruled himself out of the running), cant remember it word for word, but something along the lines of some times a new face on the training ground, with new ideas and new ways of going about things, could be a good thing. It makes me laugh that people blame just Johnson for the way we have gone backwards the last two years or so. Ok granted, he made some terrible signings that cost a lot of money, but Keith Millen was his assistant, and a coach throughout GJ's whole tenure. Keith Millen worked alongside Gary, and im fairly certain he had plenty of input when it came to what players we signed or didnt sign. I dont believe for one second Millen used to sit saying "yes sir, yes sir....three bags full sir", there whilst Gary led a dictatorship. An assistant is there to assist. Im sure he done his fair share of research. Basically what im saying is, how can we expect the solution to come from someone who was part of the original problem? For me, this club has gone stale behind the scenes. I have posted on here before that I do not believe our coaches (and scouting network) are good enough for this level, and we should have started rebuilding the club 12 months ago when GJ left. Players come to this club, and just dont progress. Take Maynard and maybe Ribierio away , you name me one player who has come to this club....or come through the ranks, and have improved? I cant think of any more. Fontaine and Elliott came on the scene with a bang.....yet have dropped off in the last couple of years and look average at best, why havent they kicked on? Clarkson, Sproule, JCR, Akinde...along with countless others have come along and never improved. Haynes is a prime example.....he came here, looked a good player....then went completely stale. The amount of players that have coem and gone at this club in recent years is unreal Again with the coaches, what do they do on the training field. Our defence makes the same mistakes week in week out, the same mistakes they were making 18 months ago. The same can be said about our complete lack of ability when going forward. No matter what players come in.....we dont get any better. This club at times comes across as having a "jobs for the boys" mentality. "Oh good ol Scotty Murray....lets give him a PR job", what can "Stuart Naylor possibly teach David James? what can Alan Walsh teach our wingers? wingers who are already playing at a better standard then he ever played at. A lot needs to change at this club, and its not just the playing staff. Though I dindnmuself disagreeing about Millen, I do think you have a point in regard to our coaching staff... It is highly unlikely that any of our coaches (wigley aside) would be employed by any other championship club than BCFC... Maybe we should be taking it more seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Completely ignore the fact that our 3 best players have been signed by Millen and that if Coppell had stayed we'd be bottom without a shadow of a doubt. You're the most boring poster on here because you make out your opinion is fact. Dear Pot I respectfully nominate you as the most boring poster on here. Kind regards Kettle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Opinions about whether Millen is the right man remain polarised amongst fans. Those who support Millen point to the problems he's inherited. Unbalanced squad, missing influencial players and lets face it a largely sub standard squad of players that untill this window Millen has been unable to do anything about. Millen managed to get the team on a decent run earlier this season and many think that he will turn things around once again.I personally feel that pretty much any manager would have struggled to achieve much with the squad of players currently at City. Most of them simply aren't good enough. Millen is getting the best out of a poor bunch of players but that is overlooked by his critics. Rebuilding takes time and resources. Millen has been in post less than 6 months. Fair points here, but how long has Sven been at Leicester? In rather less time and with no prior knowledge of the players/club he has gone out and acquired the talent needed to take his team well clear of danger. Yes, he has a wealthy chairman, but so has Millen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 You and others have said this for months...fair play. You clearly believe it...but I'm genuinely interested...WHY do you think he will come good?...what possible evidence is there? Millen has brought in four players. Pitman, Stead, Caulker and Rose. All of them have been positive signings. If he's allowed to clear out over the summer and sign 8-10 players I'd be optimistic based on his signings so far. At this point one of the handful of usual suspects will point out that because Millen was previously assistant he must be held responsible for the state the squad was in, in my view that's bollocks and the buck stops with the manager entirely. If Millen signs duds now, I'll hold him responsible, but I think there's a marked difference in his transfer activity and that of his predecessors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Rebuilding takes time and resources. Millen has been in post less than 6 months. how come you were calling Johnson a conference manager after about 5 months then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Millen has brought in four players. Pitman, Stead, Caulker and Rose. All of them have been positive signings. If he's allowed to clear out over the summer and sign 8-10 players I'd be optimistic based on his signings so far. Agree with this ...... but there's more to being a manager than just signing players. You choose tactics/formations, you make sure the team is well organised, and you motivate whichever players you have available to play at their very best. These are areas where Millen can do well, or not, even if the players he's inherited would not be his first choice. We've had some good performances, and these show that the current crop can play well. So we have to ask why the same players have put in a lot of mediocre performances. Something isn't working ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodbarmyarmy Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Spot on Nibor I also think he is capable of building the right squad to play the right kind of football for BCFC and get us up & challenging for things again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon atyeo is my dad Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Here's the most honest opinion I can give ! Was millen a cheap and questionable choice : yes Have the results this season been disappointing : yes If coppell was the manager would we be saying hes the wrong choice if we were in the same place with him in charge? Has millen made one bad signing: no Has millen proved he has a eye for spotting a good player : yes But wins over boro away Cardiff Swansea sheff utd battling draws with qpr not proved that he knows what he's doing ? Or is it the losses against boro at home reading Cardiff etc etc proved he's clueless ? My belief is that millen should be given every chance in the summer transfer window as he's proved to me he knows what he's doing in regards to that! However if we did go down then I would probably say yes he is the wrong man for the job as he's not brought the best out in a team of enough quality to at least stay up ! He should at least be given to the end of season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Agree with this ...... but there's more to being a manager than just signing players. You choose tactics/formations, you make sure the team is well organised, and you motivate whichever players you have available to play at their very best. These are areas where Millen can do well, or not, even if the players he's inherited would not be his first choice. We've had some good performances, and these show that the current crop can play well. So we have to ask why the same players have put in a lot of mediocre performances. Something isn't working ..... I agree there's more to being a manager than just signings and I think there are other reasons for optimism - I was just pointing out one of them. I think Keith Millen is quite well connected and respected in the game, he's certainly qualified, I think he speaks sensibly in the press and has shown himself to learn from mistakes (this being the most important trait I reckon). There are certainly things wrong. I do think a large part is down to imbalance in the squad, I've been harping on about that for a long time and was delighted to see KM sign a real left winger and state intentions to strengthen left back and get a creative midfielder. Those are exactly where I think our main weaknesses are. There are other problems - organisation and confidence being the main ones for me. I think our squad confidence took a real hammering around Coppell leaving and never really getting started this season so even when we string a few results together it is fragile. Organisation has been a bit disrupted by injury. It's hard to assess how good or bad a job the manager is doing addressing those without being in training every day. Bottom line though is I don't think many people we could have hired in the spot we were in when Coppell left could have done much better, so I'm prepared (providing we avoid relegation) to give KM time to build a team in the summer. If we are in a similar position a year from now I will probably think that's chance enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Dear Pot I respectfully nominate you as the most boring poster on here. Kind regards Kettle So, you think on the basis of Coppells reign we'd be in a better position with Nicky Hunt playing week in week out and no strikers? Pitman is our top goal scorer. Stead is classiest striker we've got. Caulker is arguably the most talented player to don the red and white in a quarter of a century! struggling to think of any outfield players who are better than these three, Adomah blowing hot and cold... defence are all terrible, nothing in midfield... I'd say that opinion contains more so called facts than red badgers opinion that he has been "proven right" in doubting millen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 So, you think on the basis of Coppells reign we'd be in a better position with Nicky Hunt playing week in week out and no strikers? Pitman is our top goal scorer. Stead is classiest striker we've got. Caulker is arguably the most talented player to don the red and white in a quarter of a century! struggling to think of any outfield players who are better than these three, Adomah blowing hot and cold... defence are all terrible, nothing in midfield... I'd say that opinion contains more so called facts than red badgers opinion that he has been "proven right" in doubting millen Just take a deep breath, go back and re-read the extract from your message that I quoted. I even highlighted a few words to make it easier for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Just take a deep breath, go back and re-read the extract from your message that I quoted. I even highlighted a few words to make it easier for you! So it's just the wording you want to argue with? not the actual content of the argument. Nice work... Also, no need to play the patronising tosspot role, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 So it's just the wording you want to argue with? not the actual content of the argument. Nice work... Also, no need to play the patronising tosspot role, I will not descend to name calling. Please leave this board so those who want to have a civilised discussion can do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I will not descend to name calling. Please leave this board so those who want to have a civilised discussion can do so. N'awww. Still ignore the main point of the posts... Clearly interested in discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 So, you think on the basis of Coppells reign we'd be in a better position with Nicky Hunt playing week in week out and no strikers? Pitman is our top goal scorer. Stead is classiest striker we've got. Caulker is arguably the most talented player to don the red and white in a quarter of a century! struggling to think of any outfield players who are better than these three, Adomah blowing hot and cold... defence are all terrible, nothing in midfield... I'd say that opinion contains more so called facts than red badgers opinion that he has been "proven right" in doubting millen We made our first move for Stead when Coppell was in charge dont forget, and as for Caulker......bit over the top dont you think? our most talented player in 25 years? really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 We made our first move for Stead when Coppell was in charge dont forget, and as for Caulker......bit over the top dont you think? our most talented player in 25 years? really? No, I don't think it is over the top. I really see Caulker captaining England in the future, He is Rio Ferdinand without the occasional knack for doing something ridiculously stupid! Struggling to think of anyone as good as him to play for us in that time frame? Andy Cole perhaps? You're older than me... can you think of many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No, I don't think it is over the top. I really see Caulker captaining England in the future, He is Rio Ferdinand without the occasional knack for doing something ridiculously stupid! Struggling to think of anyone as good as him to play for us in that time frame? Andy Cole perhaps? You're older than me... can you think of many? Andy Cole definately, Goater went on to achieve a lot, Shaun Taylor was an excellent, excellent defender. Caulker is a good defender, and definately one for the future....but think its still to early to tell whether or not. He has bags and bags of potential though I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Andy Cole definately, Goater went on to achieve a lot, Shaun Taylor was an excellent, excellent defender. Caulker is a good defender, and definately one for the future....but think its still to early to tell whether or not. He has bags and bags of potential though I agree That's why I said talented, I really think he has the ability to become the leading defender in this country, Obviously it will all depend on the decisions he makes in regard to his future, I would love for him to stay here another season but I wouldn't neccessarily see that as a good thing for him. I personally think he is ready for top end Premier League football already. Harry has a good record with youth players though, having brought through Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Frank Lampard and a few others whilst at West Ham, It just seems a while since he went with kids. I don't seem to remember Goater scoring many at the highest level? and agreed about Taylor, the end of his career coincided with the begining of my support for City, and he was certainly a classy and consistent performer who probably could have gone a lot further than Swindon and us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 That's why I said talented, I really think he has the ability to become the leading defender in this country, Obviously it will all depend on the decisions he makes in regard to his future, I would love for him to stay here another season but I wouldn't neccessarily see that as a good thing for him. I personally think he is ready for top end Premier League football already. Harry has a good record with youth players though, having brought through Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Frank Lampard and a few others whilst at West Ham, It just seems a while since he went with kids. I don't seem to remember Goater scoring many at the highest level? and agreed about Taylor, the end of his career coincided with the begining of my support for City, and he was certainly a classy and consistent performer who probably could have gone a lot further than Swindon and us! Goater was a decent player, certainly at Championship standard. As you said, Caulker has the talent, but so have so many other players. Wouldnt be at all suprised to see him at QPR on loan next season if they go up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 We made our first move for Stead when Coppell was in charge dont forget, I was going to post similar. The transfers of both Stead and Pitman were protracted affairs and discussions regarding both were well under way before KM took over. Both actually put pen to paper after he was appointed, so he did technically sign them both. I don't think he can be credited with instigating the moves though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Goater was a decent player, certainly at Championship standard. As you said, Caulker has the talent, but so have so many other players. Wouldnt be at all suprised to see him at QPR on loan next season if they go up and say what you like about Colin, that would be a good move for him. However, in his shoes I'd be hoping for a 6 month loan there, just to prove himself as a class Premier League defender, and then back to Spurs to challenge and ultimately become their first choice centre half! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 and say what you like about Colin, that would be a good move for him. However, in his shoes I'd be hoping for a 6 month loan there, just to prove himself as a class Premier League defender, and then back to Spurs to challenge and ultimately become their first choice centre half! Warnock is an excellent manager and it would give him the chance to stay in London. Also, Caulker was recommended to Millen by Twentyman dont forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Risk Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I thought it was fairly obvious that this was a hypothetical question... and a very valid one. Really???? i am not in a minority in suggesting it was less than obvious actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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