What A Joy To Watch...

[dae]

the swans reserve / u18 side have been playing the same system for the last 4-5 years.

Contnuity is there from u12's now. you cant impliment that over night.

[spudski]

the swans reserve / u18 side have been playing the same system for the last 4-5 years.

Contnuity is there from u12's now. you cant impliment that over night.

Just like the Blueprint of all Spanish teams. Well done on your Club, seeing the light and implimenting it. I'm sure it will pay dividends in the long run.

I wish our Club would do the same. I'll be watching with interest to see how you get on.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Swansea wore us ragged in the first half.

We ran around, huffed and puffed and looked physically and mentally knackered.

KM made the changes at the beginning of the second half. We pressed hard, had a purple patch for 5 mins, but for all the effort didn't have the quality to make the difference.

Swansea soaked it up, remained in shape and started to play again. You can't keep that type of football up for 90 mins, of continually harrassing further up the field. Hense our tendency to sit back.

KM kept urging his players to push up, but they were having none of it.

The exchanges of words between certain players in our team, spoke volumes. Most noticiable Carey with LJ.

Personally, I don't think KM and SW are going to be able to motivate or change how we play with who we've got.

A case of hanging on this season, hoping results go our way, and have a big clear out in the Summer. Or we get someone in now to help Motivate?

Very true, keeping up that pressing game is exhausting as you say. We can do that, we can press- and we need to, but nobody really to put their foot on the ball and move it about, control the game as we all know. I was at the Palace home game and though we weren't outplayed, I do recall thinking similar then in terms of how tiring pressing is- when you win the ball back, you then need to keep it and build up- a pass backwards or sideways is better than just turning it over once more.

[Simon79]

Agree with everything you have said above Spud, spot on.

One question, why did we give them the time and space to play this way?!?!

When playing against a team like that who like to play passing football, you need to hurry and close down players continually, I know Skuse was injured but I would have gone for Cisse and Marv, it's not an ideal partnership but it at least has industry and determination, no creativity but we created NOTHING anyway with our "creative" midfielder playing.

Crap tactics, crap commitment, crap passion from some crap players, hats off to Swansea for showing us how to play, can't see them going up personally though.

With regards the tactics, im fairly sure it was exactly the way we played them last year when we won at home.We let the keeper give it to the centre halves/ full backs and tried to make them play long. The problem was that they got the 1st goal last night and have improved in the final third with some astute signings ( sinclair, moore ). The dissapointing thing for me was how long it took us to realise they had a spare man in the midfield all the time, in fact, i dont know if they would of worked out how to deal with it if they were still on the pitch now! But what struck me more than anything was how comfortable on the ball each and everyone of their players were on the ball ( at one point i actually counted how many players they had!). There touch and movement were well ahead of ours. Surely a professional footballer should have the basic fundamentals? I mean their centre halves have got a better touch than most of our players in any position. Totally agree with the commitment and passion comments and yes, hats off to swansea, the best team ive seen at the gate this season.

[Somerset Red]

Very true, keeping up that pressing game is exhausting as you say. We can do that, we can press- and we need to, but nobody really to put their foot on the ball and move it about, control the game as we all know. I was at the Palace home game and though we weren't outplayed, I do recall thinking similar then in terms of how tiring pressing is- when you win the ball back, you then need to keep it and build up- a pass backwards or sideways is better than just turning it over once more.

Spot on!

There were times last night that we were chasing shadows, we couldn't get hold of the ball. And when we did....we were either too tired to run into space to accept a pass, or just not good enough to do so. Hence....the ball went straight back to Swansea, and the sequence would start all over again.

We were taught a lesson last night. and the one 'creative' midfielder that we've all been clamouring for, would not have made the slightest of difference.

We are not, and haven't been for some time, consistently playing as a team.

Unless we get some leadership and team spirit going, things are looking bleak.

[Tales From The Front]

The difference is that Millen has not had enough time in post to develop and build his own team. Since he took over he's been dealing with other people's signings. Woolford is his first actual signing I think.

Johnson had almost 4 seasons to build a team and last season in particular probably had the strongest looking squad we've seen at AG for ages. Despite that and his time in post Johnson still managed to serve up pretty much two seasons of the same boring boring football. There was little hope that it would get any better.

I agree that recently its been dreadfull but as I said in another thread I have some sympathy for Millens position and am prepared to stick by him. He turned it around earlier this season and I believe he'll do it again.

BUT he has been around long enough to have identified the same old squad weeknesses, centre of midfield for starters...IF he cant identify it, which after last night I now sadly have to say no he cant. His coaching, let alone his managerial performance last night was very poor, and if that what a UEFA badge gets you...forget it. This post is very harsh I'll be the first to admit but 24 hours on I have not really calmed down with regard that debacle. He had no idea how to counter Swansea.....why wait to half time the whole ground could see have 10 minuets that we were playing with what was effectively a back six due to Johnson and Elliott (both poor) being far to deep giving Swansea enough space for a Harlem Globetrotter type exhibition display.

We have no constructive patern of play, no ball retention and for the umpteenth time we create no chances as I'm sure this is illustrated by Haynes performace since leaving us for Barnsley...something is seriously wrong with the first team coaching at our club and change is needed.

I agree witrh other posts we desperatly need new ideas at the club and I like the idea of a Spanish coach or a Poyet type approach...I have had more than enough of the tired English approach of Pulis, the latter days under Johnson and this sudo Johnson apprach from Millen. The club needs revolution!

[Tales From The Front]

The difference is that Millen has not had enough time in post to develop and build his own team. Since he took over he's been dealing with other people's signings. Woolford is his first actual signing I think.

Double post

[arpaul]

Swansea having been playing 'continental' football since Martinez first took over. Sousa carried on playing the same way and Rodgers has inherited a club whose ethos is now on that style of play. He hasn't had to change much. New players signing for the Jacks quickly adapt to the style.They were all comfortable on the ball and reminded me of Arsenal. I thought they were superb and sooo much better than City.

What style do we have? As I said before, they were light years ahead of us. However, I would suggest thay have evolved under Rodgers into a far better side than they were.

Here lays the problem. We have regressed under Millen.

In my memory City have never played that in that 'keep the ball' and 'pass and move' way. Most of the past 40 odd years has been either long balls upto a big front man or counter attacking using nippy wingers. Its a City mindset regardless of who the manager is.

Disagree. In my time watching City, Alan Dicks, Bobby Houghton, Terry Cooper, Joe Jordan, Jimmy Lumsden, Danny Wilson all tried to play good passing football.

Jordans promotion side and Coopers sides always entertained regardless of the level they played, and along with Dicks' promotion side are stand out teams of my time as a City fan.

Three times last night Carey took a free kich from wide near the half way line. Three times he lumped the ball into the Swansea box to no effect. Swansea had two free kicks from similair positions and twice they played it back to the defence and started a move forward. There lies the difference.

I remember Carey launching it on a couple of ocassions. You are right. Do you think that maybe he was instructed by the manager to do it? Aren't set plays practised during the week in training.....taken by the manager and his staff? Get real Alan!

If Millen wants City to play like Swansea he ain't going to do with the current bunch of players.

Surely, if you're sufficiently qualified you should be able to coach anyone to pass and move. Has he not got UEFAs top coaching badge?

He may not have the ability, but better to have tried and failed than lay down without a whimper.

[Drew Peacock]

Good posts Spudski. I like that idea of Spanish coaches although it has to be said Brendan Rogers has taken it on a step further since Paulao Sauso when they scored very few goals.

Yes Swansea were by far the best team we have seen at AG this season, but if I wanted to criticise them I would point out that their first goal came from a lucky ball landing at the scorers feet, not from an incisive pass and their second came from some absolute dog shit defending and was a goal a Downs League team would have been embarrassed at conceding.

We didn't need to be much better to take an undeserved point out of that.

For all their pretty play Swansea (and they had pretty play last season too) still lacked a cutting edge. But I hope to goodness they finish second and Baadiff don't go up. Come on Swansea!!

[Nogbad the Bad]

Who did then?

Stead and Pitman physically put pen to paper after KM became manager, so his elevation certainly didn't actually put them off signing.

However, they had already been in protracted negotiations/discussions with City for some time before he became manager.

He did NOT sign them in so far as he did not instigate their signings and they were well on the way to joining City already.

He was not responsible for them joining City, he simply had taken over at the helm by the time they did.

As I said Woolford is the only permanent signing Millen has instigated and actually got the signature while he has been in the managerial position.

[bristolcitysweden]

I'm a football fan first and foremost, who happens to support Bristol City. I enjoy Football of all standards, Pro and Amateur. Tearing my hair out over City's performance would do what? I can't control what's going on. I sit and observe, and appreciate good football or footballers, whoever plays it.

Yes it's not pleasant watching my team play so poorly, but like i said, what good does screaming and shouting do? It is, what it is.

If you base only enjoying football, on the performances Of City, then it is going to lead to a pretty average experience for you. History and results prove that.

My stance is exactly the same.

[Matty-H]

**** me, someone comes up with a phrase (continental football) and suddenly the usual suspects jump on the bandwagon as if that's the answer to all our problems in the past, and the solution to them all going forward. What does it mean? Doesn't matter, because the two words sound good together and it's non specific, so it can be quoted and used by those that choose to without having to elaborate on WTF they are on about. Evander Sno played continental football. He was slow and useless too. How dare I? Naughty Matty daring to put down the out of position Sno. It was all Johnsons fault eh Robbored?

[Robbored]

''Disagree. In my time watching City, Alan Dicks, Bobby Houghton, Terry Cooper, Joe Jordan, Jimmy Lumsden, Danny Wilson all tried to play good passing football.Jordans promotion side and Coopers sides always entertained regardless of the level they played, and along with Dicks' promotion side are stand out teams of my time as a City fan.''

'Tried' to play football is spot on but none of them had the players to be able to keep the ball the way Swansea did on Tuesday night.Entertainment is subjective. One of my fondest memories is seeing the likes of Whitehead,Walsh,Smudger Smith and laterly Scot Murray flying down the wings.Very exciting and great to watch. Not everyone would agree though.

[spudski]

**** me, someone comes up with a phrase (continental football) and suddenly the usual suspects jump on the bandwagon as if that's the answer to all our problems in the past, and the solution to them all going forward. What does it mean? Doesn't matter, because the two words sound good together and it's non specific, so it can be quoted and used by those that choose to without having to elaborate on WTF they are on about. Evander Sno played continental football. He was slow and useless too. How dare I? Naughty Matty daring to put down the out of position Sno. It was all Johnsons fault eh Robbored?

What else would you call it? It's definately not a traditional English way of playing.

It maybe not the answer to all our problems...But why not give it a go?

Year in, Year out...The Championship is full of teams trying to battle there way out of this Division. Same old players, same old style. Each season you get 2 or 3 teams that are good, 3 or 4 who are crap, and everyone in between can beat one another on their day. Why not buck the trend?

What's more...it's a darn sight more entertaining to watch.

I've done an entry level coaching badge, which tbh, anyone could pass , and studied football coaching styles across the Globe. Talking to other lads who have travelled and coached football throughout the world, and they will all tell you, we are miles behind with our philosophy's. Right down to kids level.

Even to this day, England have fine results up to under 18's, purely on the fact the players have been chosen on their physical attributes. Other nations are working on technical abilities and working as a unit. Being able to play in every position. Knowing how to cover and rotate when out of position.

These lads all overtake our English counterparts as they mature.

As the Swansea fan said. Every level of their youth teams are playing the same style and training, as a unit, so that it becomes second nature and ingrained.

You only had to look at the way Swansea passed on Tuesday. It wasn't just to feet, but to the correct side away from the defender, creating time and room to turn and shield the ball. Something our lads would never think of...or so it seems. It's basic stuff on the continent...it seems like Brain Surgery over here.

Even a simple throw in. How many times do you see the ball thrown to either hip height, or bouncing in front of the receiving player? City do this all the time. It should be to feet...one touch stuff. To create time and space. It simple basic stuff, that for years hasn't been implemented or adhered too in this country.

I could go on, but to do it would all take time to implement. I admire Swansea for giving it a go...Fair play to them. Trying to break the stagnent mold.

[i remember dickie rooks]

Didn't we give Sheff Utd the same footballing lesson only 2 months ago?

[spudski]

Didn't we give Sheff Utd the same footballing lesson only 2 months ago?

I think you're missing the point. Like i said, every year teams in this division beat one another. Sometimes convincingly. It's doing it on a consistant basis which matters. And every year it's the same Merry go round, same styles, same tactics, same players, same coaches,a lottery. Breaking that Mold and trying something different can only be to one's advantage.

The more you travel and watch games abroad, even at lower level, you will see how far behind we are.

You won't get instant success, but you only have to look at Swansea to see how they have gradually developed over the last 5/6 years. It's so noticeable. And they are a team on a budget like us. So it can be done.

[i remember dickie rooks]

I agree. In the same way as Gary Johnson brought in workhorses, we now need to gradually bring in ball players.

I will then have to put up with the people near me yelling "get on with it" after the second pass

[PolskRed]

...Swansea, the best footballing side i've seen at the Gate for many a year.

Fair play to them. They played us off the park, and it was like watching a Spanish league outfit.

Leon Britton, played just in front of their back four and controlled the game from start to finish. What a great little player.

If i was SL, i'd be saying 'I want some of that'. Get back to the drawing board, and get some Spanish coaches in. Learn to play attractive, controlled football.

Sometimes, you just have to hold your hands up, forget the result, and admire what the opposition has achieved.

I've got to the point now, where i go to watch City, and think, 'Right just enjoy, regardless of how we play or the result'. It's a lot less stressfull, and although we lost...I thoroughly enjoyed tonight.

Spudski

I understand completely what you mean however I could never describe watching City getting played off the park as "a joy" If I were really intent on watching brilliant/outstanding football I would probably not be watching anything other than the top 4 teams in either the Premier League, La Liga or Serie A.

I also understand about your hopes for Spanish style football but if we do ever get to play that way I hope we leave out the constant rolling about and crying everytime a defender comes within 2ft of making a tackle. I often wonder how they would cope if they played against the likes of Norman Hunter etc?? This part of watching La Liga on Sky is awful.

[Mr Popodopolous]

What else would you call it? It's definately not a traditional English way of playing.

It maybe not the answer to all our problems...But why not give it a go?

Year in, Year out...The Championship is full of teams trying to battle there way out of this Division. Same old players, same old style. Each season you get 2 or 3 teams that are good, 3 or 4 who are crap, and everyone in between can beat one another on their day. Why not buck the trend?

What's more...it's a darn sight more entertaining to watch.

I've done an entry level coaching badge, which tbh, anyone could pass , and studied football coaching styles across the Globe. Talking to other lads who have travelled and coached football throughout the world, and they will all tell you, we are miles behind with our philosophy's. Right down to kids level.

Even to this day, England have fine results up to under 18's, purely on the fact the players have been chosen on their physical attributes. Other nations are working on technical abilities and working as a unit. Being able to play in every position. Knowing how to cover and rotate when out of position.

These lads all overtake our English counterparts as they mature.

As the Swansea fan said. Every level of their youth teams are playing the same style and training, as a unit, so that it becomes second nature and ingrained.

You only had to look at the way Swansea passed on Tuesday. It wasn't just to feet, but to the correct side away from the defender, creating time and room to turn and shield the ball. Something our lads would never think of...or so it seems. It's basic stuff on the continent...it seems like Brain Surgery over here.

Even a simple throw in. How many times do you see the ball thrown to either hip height, or bouncing in front of the receiving player? City do this all the time. It should be to feet...one touch stuff. To create time and space. It simple basic stuff, that for years hasn't been implemented or adhered too in this country.

I could go on, but to do it would all take time to implement. I admire Swansea for giving it a go...Fair play to them. Trying to break the stagnent mold.

Agree with all of this. Bit about England especially- we all saw the performances by us in the World Cup. Whatever happens this season, we should try to put this in place over a number of years, from youth level upwards much like Swansea. Playing in multiple positions is also something we can lack in this country- too much focus on specialists, essentially. It's why the goalpoacher has died out at the top level in many cases, but in fairness none of the top clubs here use any. Look at, let's take an example Villa of Spain and Barca. He played wide in the WC for the most part- which isn't his top choice position, yet finished as one of the leading scorers! In this country, people moan about Gerrard being played wide- therein lies the difference.

[spudski]

Spudski

I understand completely what you mean however I could never describe watching City getting played off the park as "a joy" If I were really intent on watching brilliant/outstanding football I would probably not be watching anything other than the top 4 teams in either the Premier League, La Liga or Serie A.

I also understand about your hopes for Spanish style football but if we do ever get to play that way I hope we leave out the constant rolling about and crying everytime a defender comes within 2ft of making a tackle. I often wonder how they would cope if they played against the likes of Norman Hunter etc?? This part of watching La Liga on Sky is awful.

Yes i agree about the falling over trying to get a foul. It is infuriating. But most people think it's purely play acting to gain just a free kick.

It's not. On the continent, they go down and stay down to get a breather and water on board. The rest of the team aren't just stood around watching either. They are talking, implementing tactics, asking where they can do better. The coach is passing tips on through the physio. It all goes on. Watch Arsenal, they do it as well. It's not so easy to see it on TV, but at a live game, watch what is going on around the pitch and in the dug out when the player is down.

[PolskRed]

Yes i agree about the falling over trying to get a foul. It is infuriating. But most people think it's purely play acting to gain just a free kick.

It's not. On the continent, they go down and stay down to get a breather and water on board. The rest of the team aren't just stood around watching either. They are talking, implementing tactics, asking where they can do better. The coach is passing tips on through the physio. It all goes on. Watch Arsenal, they do it as well. It's not so easy to see it on TV, but at a live game, watch what is going on around the pitch and in the dug out when the player is down.

I have never heard that before and maybe this is true? If it is the case though is there a fitness issue? I know it does get hot in Spain but recently is has been quite cold however it still goes on. It has always been the case in England when a player is injured team mates will go to the bench for a drink and talk tactics but you don't see the injured player slapping the floor crying and screaming for example. A lot of the time the player involved and his colleagues are busy waving "pretend cards" at the referee in an attempt to get a player booked or sent off, if the player is booked/sent off the injured player nearly always makes an amazing recovery and is up and running in a couple of minutes. This is out of order, like I say they may play good football but it would be a sad day if we see a City player doing this.