The Aim

[SC_Red]

Millen has taken us from bottom of the league to 16th and almost definately safe from relegation.

I think he's done/is doing a decent job.

if you think taking a club up 8 places in 8 months is decent you must of been well impressed with Gary Johnson taking us from bottom of league 1 to top half of the league above.

[Riaz]

I don't know how you draw the conclusion that Millen 'ain't got what it takes'. A bit premature imo.

He's had less than one season to impose his own style and philosophy and has been dealing with players (bar one) that are not his own. He's had our main striker Maynard out untill recently and it was largely his goals last season that kept City in the Championship. City recently lost Stead to injury but despite all the difficulties (club in confusion after Coppell walked out) Millen has taken us from bottom of the league to 16th and almost definately safe from relegation.

I think he's done/is doing a decent job.

Next season will a true test of what Millen can do.

Things like the following tell me he is clueless:

Thinking that Elliott could play behind a forward???

Thinking the above, but then being surprised how well clarkson did in that position

Saying McAllister is a brilliant left back.

Bringing in a winger in january -when we had adequate wingers

Bringing in a forward in january - when we had enough forwards

not bringing in any full backs in january - when its urgently needed

not bringing in a midfielder who has an eye for a pass - when it was urgently needed.

Playing Cisse & Elliott in midfield and being surprised that the team look dis-jointed against the better sides.

One question for you now robbo. Where do you think we would have finished without Caulker?? - I think we would have been relegated.

You will say millen deserves credit for that signing - and he does. But what happens next season when he goes back to spurs??

[Robbored]

Things like the following tell me he is clueless:

Thinking that Elliott could play behind a forward???

Thinking the above, but then being surprised how well clarkson did in that position.

Saying McAllister is a brilliant left back.

Bringing in a winger in january -when we had adequate wingers.

Bringing in a forward in january - when we had enough forwards.

not bringing in any full backs in january - when its urgently needed.

not bringing in a midfielder who has an eye for a pass - when it was urgently needed.

Playing Cisse & Elliott in midfield and being surprised that the team look dis-jointed against the better sides.

One question for you now robbo. Where do you think we would have finished without Caulker?? - I think we would have been relegated.You will say millen deserves credit for that signing - and he does. But what happens next season when he goes back to spurs??

No manager can build a team overnight and playing Eilliot behind a forward and given his strength in air was an idea. Ok it didn't work and now Elliot plays a little deeper again.

Millens remark about Clarkson 'finding a new position' was very tongue in cheek.

Millen is hardly going to slag off any player in public. What else did you expect him to say about McAllister?

Did we have adequate left sided wingers? Don't think we had any.

Did we have enough forwards? Its called providing cover.

Full backs. Yep some critism could be due there but quality left backs are as rare as hens teeth.

Quality 'eye for a pass' midfielders don't grow on trees either. No point signing one if they aren't good enough.

Cisse and Elliot combination has been pretty good in recent games, largely because Cisse has finally found some form. He was poor earlier in the season.

Without Caulker? Good question but good though he is, he's not a one man defence. With him back at Spurs next season Millen has the summer to replace him and fill all the other weaker area's of the squad. Millen will lose at least 8 or 10 out of contract over summer and will have some room to bring in new blood.

[SC_Red]

Things like the following tell me he is clueless:

Thinking that Elliott could play behind a forward???

he's our highest scoring midfielder so not entirely stupid.

Thinking the above, but then being surprised how well clarkson did in that position

you try things and if they dont work you change them. fair enough really

Saying McAllister is a brilliant left back.

what do you want him to do? slag him off?

Bringing in a winger in january -when we had adequate wingers

no we didnt. we havent had a decent leftie since Mcindoe

Bringing in a forward in january - when we had enough forwards

no we didnt. we had Stead injured and Maynard injured. That left us with Clarkson and Pitman which isnt enough. especially when you've said above that you want Clarkson in midfield. had Stead been fit he wouldnt of signed Keogh

not bringing in any full backs in january - when its urgently needed

he tried but couldnt get players he wanted or were affordable or were better than what we have. Better to wait than end up with another Hunt surely.

not bringing in a midfielder who has an eye for a pass - when it was urgently needed.

see above

Playing Cisse & Elliott in midfield and being surprised that the team look dis-jointed against the better sides.

theyve been in the last few games thats seen us climb clear of relegation

One question for you now robbo. Where do you think we would have finished without Caulker?? - I think we would have been relegated.

well yeah playing with 10 men would be suicide

You will say millen deserves credit for that signing - and he does. But what happens next season when he goes back to spurs??

players come and players go. He'll try to do what he's trying to do now - bring in better than we have in already to improve us. No doubt you will be crying out for him to just sign anyone though as you are now

Millen hasnt been without faults but criticising his signings is odd as theyve been measured and good in almost all cases. Rose aside I'd say.

[grifty]

It's all about looking at both sides of the coin, something which the majority on here fail to look at. You're either happy clapper millen lover or moaning go and watch arsenal git.

We've got a highly rated, young manager BUT he's inexperienced at management and often doesn't show he's encouraging or showing enough passion.

We havn't played amazing football and are not as high as we'd like to be BUT we had a disastrous start to the season, one of change

We've got a brilliant chairman BUT he seems to be pinning his and maybe our future on a stadium which is starting to go a bit stale

We have a strong squad BUT we lack a couple of key influential players

Our 'best' player doesn't actually belong to us BUT we seem to have a relationship with a Prem team with a great academy

We lack consistency BUT we've proved we can compete with the bigger teams (Cardiff, QPR, Swansea away)

We've made encouraging signings BUT did we overlook strengthen our defence a bit too much

We have one of the better goalies in England BUT would is wages be better off supporting other areas.

We are a smaller club in this division BUT with the success of other smaller clubs, why can't we do it to?

And so on.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I actually understand where Riaz is coming from, as I said in a previous post Millen has probably spent the thick end of 2million and has only signed one player who actually falls into the category of where we have needed to strengthen and let's be honest here that was only because Rose went back to Spurs.

I don't think anyone can dispute the quality of these signings. My gut feeling is that Millen has obviously decided to opt for survival this season and his signings are long term signings and hopefully in the summer we will actually see the important areas central defence, full backs and centre midfield brought in. Because the players he wants will be available.

My only worry is that the Millen fundamentalists will use the decision to do it this way as yet another excuse to give him another season and the one after, 'after all he has had to completely re-build' and 1 wasted and poor season will end up as 3.

So for me he has had funds already this season, he will have scope next season with expected departures and I am sure even more funds, so he will be under the microscope from the start and I will be expecting consistency, better home form, less turgid performances and a manager who will change things quicker when they are not working and not waiting until the game is already lost. No hiding place Keef.

[Riaz]

It's all about looking at both sides of the coin, something which the majority on here fail to look at. You're either happy clapper millen lover or moaning go and watch arsenal git.

We've got a highly rated, young manager BUT he's inexperienced at management and often doesn't show he's encouraging or showing enough passion.

We havn't played amazing football and are not as high as we'd like to be BUT we had a disastrous start to the season, one of change

We've got a brilliant chairman BUT he seems to be pinning his and maybe our future on a stadium which is starting to go a bit stale

We have a strong squad BUT we lack a couple of key influential players

Our 'best' player doesn't actually belong to us BUT we seem to have a relationship with a Prem team with a great academy

We lack consistency BUT we've proved we can compete with the bigger teams (Cardiff, QPR, Swansea away)

We've made encouraging signings BUT did we overlook strengthen our defence a bit too much

We have one of the better goalies in England BUT would is wages be better off supporting other areas.

We are a smaller club in this division BUT with the success of other smaller clubs, why can't we do it to?

And so on.

Good post, agree with most but Millen is highly rated by who??

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It's all about looking at both sides of the coin, something which the majority on here fail to look at. You're either happy clapper millen lover or moaning go and watch arsenal git.

We've got a highly rated, young manager BUT he's inexperienced at management and often doesn't show he's encouraging or showing enough passion.

We havn't played amazing football and are not as high as we'd like to be BUT we had a disastrous start to the season, one of change

We've got a brilliant chairman BUT he seems to be pinning his and maybe our future on a stadium which is starting to go a bit stale

We have a strong squad BUT we lack a couple of key influential players

Our 'best' player doesn't actually belong to us BUT we seem to have a relationship with a Prem team with a great academy

We lack consistency BUT we've proved we can compete with the bigger teams (Cardiff, QPR, Swansea away)

We've made encouraging signings BUT did we overlook strengthen our defence a bit too much

We have one of the better goalies in England BUT would is wages be better off supporting other areas.

We are a smaller club in this division BUT with the success of other smaller clubs, why can't we do it to?

And so on.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It's all about looking at both sides of the coin, something which the majority on here fail to look at. You're either happy clapper millen lover or moaning go and watch arsenal git.

We've got a highly rated, young manager BUT he's inexperienced at management and often doesn't show he's encouraging or showing enough passion.

We havn't played amazing football and are not as high as we'd like to be BUT we had a disastrous start to the season, one of change

We've got a brilliant chairman BUT he seems to be pinning his and maybe our future on a stadium which is starting to go a bit stale

We have a strong squad BUT we lack a couple of key influential players

Our 'best' player doesn't actually belong to us BUT we seem to have a relationship with a Prem team with a great academy

We lack consistency BUT we've proved we can compete with the bigger teams (Cardiff, QPR, Swansea away)

We've made encouraging signings BUT did we overlook strengthen our defence a bit too much

We have one of the better goalies in England BUT would is wages be better off supporting other areas.

We are a smaller club in this division BUT with the success of other smaller clubs, why can't we do it to?

And so on.

Highly rated? on what evidence?.

[Andy082005]

I don't know how you draw the conclusion that Millen 'ain't got what it takes'. A bit premature imo.

He's had less than one season to impose his own style and philosophy and has been dealing with players (bar one) that are not his own. He's had our main striker Maynard out untill recently and it was largely his goals last season that kept City in the Championship. City recently lost Stead to injury but despite all the difficulties (club in confusion after Coppell walked out) Millen has taken us from bottom of the league to 16th and almost definately safe from relegation.

I think he's done/is doing a decent job.

Next season will a true test of what Millen can do.

pure comedy statement from the hypocrite of all hypocrites

[Andy082005]

It's all about looking at both sides of the coin, something which the majority on here fail to look at. You're either happy clapper millen lover or moaning go and watch arsenal git.

We've got a highly rated, young manager BUT he's inexperienced at management and often doesn't show he's encouraging or showing enough passion.

We havn't played amazing football and are not as high as we'd like to be BUT we had a disastrous start to the season, one of change

We've got a brilliant chairman BUT he seems to be pinning his and maybe our future on a stadium which is starting to go a bit stale

We have a strong squad BUT we lack a couple of key influential players

Our 'best' player doesn't actually belong to us BUT we seem to have a relationship with a Prem team with a great academy

We lack consistency BUT we've proved we can compete with the bigger teams (Cardiff, QPR, Swansea away)

We've made encouraging signings BUT did we overlook strengthen our defence a bit too much

We have one of the better goalies in England BUT would is wages be better off supporting other areas.

We are a smaller club in this division BUT with the success of other smaller clubs, why can't we do it to?

And so on.

apart from donald and robbored who practically nosh him off, whjo thinks he is highly rated?

[SC_Red]

I actually understand where Riaz is coming from, as I said in a previous post Millen has probably spent the thick end of 2million and has only signed one player who actually falls into the category of where we have needed to strengthen and let's be honest here that was only because Rose went back to Spurs.

Rose was injured for a good while so it could of been that Millen was looking at Woolford to bring in next summer but brought it forward because Rose didnt recover.

I don't think anyone can dispute the quality of these signings. My gut feeling is that Millen has obviously decided to opt for survival this season and his signings are long term signings and hopefully in the summer we will actually see the important areas central defence, full backs and centre midfield brought in. Because the players he wants will be available.

agreed. I think thats the strategy. he wont be rushed into bad buys as far as I can tell and good on him for that.

My only worry is that the Millen fundamentalists will use the decision to do it this way as yet another excuse to give him another season and the one after, 'after all he has had to completely re-build' and 1 wasted and poor season will end up as 3.

cant see that happening. if we're struggling Xmas I think a lot of fans will loose patience and it will be hard for Lansdown to justify keeping him on

So for me he has had funds already this season, he will have scope next season with expected departures and I am sure even more funds, so he will be under the microscope from the start and I will be expecting consistency, better home form, less turgid performances and a manager who will change things quicker when they are not working and not waiting until the game is already lost. No hiding place Keef.

agreed again. For me seeing a pattern of play and solid performances will be as important as results early on because he should of had enough time to bed that in and bring in players to suit how he wants to set up what will without question be his team.

[grifty]

I meant highly rated from his coaching courses. I know he did well and something about the FA being impressed by him.

I know to other teams he's pretty much a non-entity, but on a theoretical side he's highly rated. He may not have quite proved his practical skills yet.

[Garland-sweden]

I don't know how you draw the conclusion that Millen 'ain't got what it takes'. A bit premature imo.

He's had less than one season to impose his own style and philosophy and has been dealing with players (bar one) that are not his own. He's had our main striker Maynard out untill recently and it was largely his goals last season that kept City in the Championship. City recently lost Stead to injury but despite all the difficulties (club in confusion after Coppell walked out) Millen has taken us from bottom of the league to 16th and almost definately safe from relegation.

I think he's done/is doing a decent job.

Next season will a true test of what Millen can do.

Offcause. He and the team has taken us from the relegationzone and thats whats all about this season, in my opinion. Lets see what happens next season, im optimistic. COYR!!!

[Donald]

Wingers before woolford

Albertm - RIGHT SIDED

Ivan - RIGHT SIDED

Rose - Injured and Short Term answer was off at end of season regardless

JCR - CRAP PLAIN & SIMPLE

Full Backs (that are good enough)

Ribiero

We were down to the bare bones with regards to full backs and still are! Rose may have been sent back but millen did'nt know he was going to be when he brought in Woolford.

We had no quality options on left wing what so ever, a decent one came up who'd scored alot of goals this season so he got him while he was available! Woolford has already improved himself to be a good signing and better than those in the team before him, so unsure how he can slated for signing him.

Typical knee jerk moaning though, people always think it's easy to find and sign players, personally not seen a decent suggestion for a left back, despite endless grips at him not signing one, was reading the watford programme last week and their manager was actually saying the same thing, he's also desperate for a left back but their aren't many around. So Millen isn't the only person having issues getting left backs

People will always complain, remember a few wallies last year moaning because we'd signed Pitman and Stead.

As for Right Back, not soo much of a priority as Left, Carey has played as much of his career at Centre Half as Right Back, with Riberio now fit and Edwards in backup baring any further injuries I'd be conentrating on the left.

[Robbored]

For me seeing a pattern of play and solid performances will be as important as results early on because he should of had enough time to bed that in and bring in players to suit how he wants to set up what will without question be his team.

Agreed.

Millen will have the summer to make the changes he feels are right for the club. He'll go into next season with a larger percentage of the players that he wants/signed and playing in his style. He'll have pre-season and a stable squad with which to work.

That said, I wouldn't have massive expectations, a solid season around the play-off places would do me. Entertaining football with the emphasis of winning is what most of us want and Millen has been around City to know that.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I meant highly rated from his coaching courses. I know he did well and something about the FA being impressed by him.

I know to other teams he's pretty much a non-entity, but on a theoretical side he's highly rated. He may not have quite proved his practical skills yet.

Yep and over the past 2 years judging by some of the woeful performances the coaching has been just great.

[grifty]

Yep and over the past 2 years judging by some of the woeful performances the coaching has been just great.

See, my post has completely gone over your head and as usual you've just gone to look at the negative side of things.

[beaverface]

I actually understand where Riaz is coming from, as I said in a previous post Millen has probably spent the thick end of 2million and has only signed one player who actually falls into the category of where we have needed to strengthen and let's be honest here that was only because Rose went back to Spurs.

I don't think anyone can dispute the quality of these signings. My gut feeling is that Millen has obviously decided to opt for survival this season and his signings are long term signings and hopefully in the summer we will actually see the important areas central defence, full backs and centre midfield brought in. Because the players he wants will be available.

My only worry is that the Millen fundamentalists will use the decision to do it this way as yet another excuse to give him another season and the one after, 'after all he has had to completely re-build' and 1 wasted and poor season will end up as 3.

So for me he has had funds already this season, he will have scope next season with expected departures and I am sure even more funds, so he will be under the microscope from the start and I will be expecting consistency, better home form, less turgid performances and a manager who will change things quicker when they are not working and not waiting until the game is already lost. No hiding place Keef.

This is such a stupid thing to say. You can't know that if another manager came in that they wouldn't meet expectations in 1 season either. ALL Managers need time, unless they really are completely and utterly useless!

[SE23Red]

This a peculiarity to us, the concept of patience and giving them time to come good. Heck we even consider youth for some bizarre reason to be 20 plus? It's a very strange thing that seems to have entered our psyche in recent times

Take Bryan Gunn at Norwich, similar situation to Millen in regards to taking over a team on the slide and what have you. Actually managed less games (21) than Millen has alreadt, was subsequently given the chop after one game of the new season. Didnt work out so bad considering where they are now. Lambert didnt have a preseason with Norwich at that time, took over with one game gone and took them up ( despite his relative inexperience as a manager). Has now taken them to the verge of Playoff/Promotion in this leageue

It can be done, for whatever reason we dont want to enter this possibility though. Why is that? why must he have time and Millen have a pre season and get his players in. Others dont and manage to sort things out so why are we immune from this?

We have tired of managers before See Russell Osman, who didnt last very long. so its not as if there isnt a precedent

What's different between the two examples above and say Millen?

Cheers

Bryan Gunn took over a team just above the relegation zone when he joined mid-season and finished the season with relegation. He started the following season losing 7-1 at home to a local rival who had historically been in divisions below them. Unless I've missed us being relegated and being thrashed at home by the Gas then I'd say the differences are clear!

FYI Osman lasted nearly two (very boring) years.

[WellRedPhil]

Edwards should get the nod for the rest of the season.

What's the point of handing out professional contracts if they're never given the opportunity ? What better time than this, with Carey and Ribeiro out and us just needing another 8 or 9 points from 12 games to ensure we steer clear of relegation.

He is very raw, but he needs to be tested and he'll either rise to it or fall by the wayside.

Couldn't agree more. What's the point in signing him on a professional contract if he's not ready or even close to being ready?

I'd be amazed if we finished top-half and if we did it would show a very, very strong end to the season. I think we'll probably come about 15th.

[Robbored]

Tied in with my first point it makes sense ( in my head at least) to ask why some people are prepared to give this benefit of the doubt? Is it just 'blind faith', implicit trust in the larger management team or is there something else to it.I try and take the emotion out things because it is so divisive but It is something I just cannot get my head around, though I would like to try

I can't see the relevence or the point of comparing Osman reign with Millens. The only thing they had in common was that they were both defenders, one considerably more accomplished than the other on the pitch.

If I remember rightly Osman started as player manager and then hung up his boots to concentrate on the mangers job. He really had little idea and almost everyone remembers his time as the probably the worst football seen in the last 20 years. The infra-structure at the club was nowhere near as honed as it is now and the team was lucky to be playing in front of more that 9000 fans at AG. I think Russe was chairman although I can't remember exactly when Scott Davidson took over.Different times and different situation.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

This is such a stupid thing to say. You can't know that if another manager came in that they wouldn't meet expectations in 1 season either. ALL Managers need time, unless they really are completely and utterly useless!

Your missing the point, of course managers need time, by the start of next season he will have had a year in charge and some fans are already writing off next season as another transitional season, so that'll 2 years in charge, so even if we improve from poor to mediocre, Millen looks as though he will be given a 3rd season. What I am saying is there has to be more than just a little bit of an improvement of at least being in and around the play offs, nothing else will be remotely acceptable and the entertainment certainly needs to improve.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

See, my post has completely gone over your head and as usual you've just gone to look at the negative side of things.

Not at all, most of us in our working lives will work with people who have impeccable qualifications and find that they are totally useless when it comes to actually doing the job. All it means is that they can pass exams.

[Robbored]

of course managers need time, by the start of next season he will have had a year in charge and some fans are already writing off next season as another transitional season, so that'll 2 years in charge, so even if we improve from poor to mediocre, Millen looks as though he will be given a 3rd season.

What I am saying is there has to be more than just a little bit of an improvement of at least being in and around the play offs, nothing else will be remotely acceptable and the entertainment certainly needs to improve.

You say all managers need time but then in the next sentence pour scorn on the possibility that Millen could be given three seasons.

In the next paragraph you are asking him to produce a play-off team next season as 'nothing else will be remotely acceptable' and to improve the entertainment value.

Contradictory or what?

[grifty]

Not at all, most of us in our working lives will work with people who have impeccable qualifications and find that they are totally useless when it comes to actually doing the job. All it means is that they can pass exams.

So you have missed my point. I've pointed out that he is highly qualified (I did put rated instead), but I've also put a negative point to the side of that which you've completely ignored and then brought it up as an argument anyway...

If you read it properly I was trying to get people to look at positives and negatives, but you just seem so interested in the negatives.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You say all managers need time but then in the next sentence pour scorn on the possibility that Millen could be given three seasons.

In the next paragraph you are asking him to produce a play-off team next season as 'nothing else will be remotely acceptable' and to improve the entertainment value.

Contradictory or what?

Three seasons, you really are a hypocrite, 3 months is usually your time frame.

My expectations appear to be the same as your Ginge, below is what you said earlier on this thread.

Millen will have the summer to make the changes he feels are right for the club. He'll go into next season with a larger percentage of the players that he wants/signed and playing in his style. He'll have pre-season and a stable squad with which to work.

That said, I wouldn't have massive expectations, a solid season around the play-off places would do me. Entertaining football with the emphasis of winning is what most of us want and Millen has been around City to know that.

and more hypocrisy from the failed 'sage' entertainment was your by word in your final 6 months of your hounding of GJ and that mantra has suddenly gone very silent since the turgid performances of last season have been carried on into this season.

Contradictory or what, nah just Ginge as usual.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So you have missed my point. I've pointed out that he is highly qualified (I did put rated instead), but I've also put a negative point to the side of that which you've completely ignored and then brought it up as an argument anyway...

If you read it properly I was trying to get people to look at positives and negatives, but you just seem so interested in the negatives.

OK positives = Cardiff at home awesome, Qpr away fighting spirit and Millen does appear to have a good eye for a player.

[Robbored]

below is what you said earlier on this thread.Millen will have the summer to make the changes he feels are right for  the club. He'll go into next season with a larger percentage of the  players that he wants/signed and playing in his style. He'll have  pre-season and a stable squad with which to work.That said, I wouldn't have massive expectations, a solid season around  the play-off places would do me. Entertaining football with the emphasis  of winning is what most of us want and Millen has been around City to  know that.

more hypocrisy from the failed 'sage' Contradictory or what,

You've been caught out and now your're clutching at straws Esmond.

Nothing that you've repeated of my other post is anyway contradictory. My view of Millen has remained consistant all season. I said he would keep us in Championship and he has very nearly achieved that.

I would really love to see Millens team average two points a game from here on in. If thats achieved you'd have nothing at all to winge about. What a relief that would be for us all..

[SC_Red]

You've been caught out and now your're clutching at straws Esmond.

Nothing that you've repeated of my other post is anyway contradictory. My view of Millen has remained consistant all season. I said he would keep us in Championship and he has very nearly achieved that.

I would really love to see Millens team average two points a game from here on in. If thats achieved you'd have nothing at all to winge about. What a relief that would be for us all..

from someone who whinged for 4 years despite being higher in the league than we are now for most of that time.

and you can see no hypocrasy?