In The History Of Football

[steviestevieneville]

Ok lads and lasses i'm 40 years old so got some experience of world class football, but has anyone seen a football team as good as barca. I don't want to go overboard but they are amazing. To older members of this board, are they better than Brazil 70. **** me now there is a comparison

[havanatopia]

That would be a very interesting match to watch. Barca were sadly in a different class to Manure tonight. The Catalans are out on their own but they are not unbeatable; Arsenal and Real have proved that this season. As good or better than Brazil's class of 70? I think they would run them close but I will plump for 2-1 to Brazil.

[Stephen Lewis]

The thing was that no matter how many goals that Brazilian team conceded you always believed they could score at least one more than that at the other end.

But to answer the question I think Barcelona are at least as good.

[WayOutWest]

Barca were so good, they made a contact sport into a non-contact sport. Cant think of many that can do that.

[chinapig]

The Ajax side of the 70s. Rinus Michels (manager of Ajax and the Dutch national side at the same time) invented so called Total Football. From Wikipedia:

In Total Football, a player who moves out of position is replaced by another member of the team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure. In this fluid system, no outfield player is fixed in a nominal role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender. The only player fixed in a nominal position is the goalkeeper.

Total Football's tactical success depends largely on the adaptability of each footballer within the team, in particular the ability to quickly switch positions depending on the on-field situation. The theory requires players to be comfortable in multiple positions; hence, it places high technical and physical demands on them.

If that sound like Barca it's because Johan Cruyff created the current Barca philosophy. Guardiola has added the constant pressing of the opposition which means it is not only hard to get the ball off them but difficult to keep it on the rare occasions you have it.

[SUMMAT OUTTA NOWT]

The Ajax side of the 70s. Rinus Michels (manager of Ajax and the Dutch national side at the same time) invented so called Total Football. From Wikipedia:

In Total Football, a player who moves out of position is replaced by another member of the team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure. In this fluid system, no outfield player is fixed in a nominal role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender. The only player fixed in a nominal position is the goalkeeper.

Total Football's tactical success depends largely on the adaptability of each footballer within the team, in particular the ability to quickly switch positions depending on the on-field situation. The theory requires players to be comfortable in multiple positions; hence, it places high technical and physical demands on them.

If that sound like Barca it's because Johan Cruyff created the current Barca philosophy. Guardiola has added the constant pressing of the opposition which means it is not only hard to get the ball off them but difficult to keep it on the rare occasions you have it.

A point well made. Cruyff is still heavilly involved with the club and the point about it becoming almost non contact is so important to this. I know its nature to follow the ball during the game but watch key players off the ball and how they make there own room. My only cross to bare is this waving of imaginary cards at the refs. They are the pitts at this and should be punished more. For me I think they are slightly better than Brazil and yes I am old enough to remember Pele, Jarzinho, Tostao and the like.

[Mr Mosquito]

Ok lads and lasses i'm 40 years old so got some experience of world class football, but has anyone seen a football team as good as barca. I don't want to go overboard but they are amazing. To older members of this board, are they better than Brazil 70. **** me now there is a comparison

As you're 40 years old I reckon you'll remember us in the top flight when we played Bob Paisley's Liverpool and Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest of the late 1970s. Against Bob Paisley's Liverpool or Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest Barcelona would probably have lost 1-0. Those afore mentioned English sides were legendary at grinding out results against far classier European opposition.

[Mclovin BS14]

I think barca would walk all over the brazil team in the 70s, back then the football was slower than it is now and that's the reason. Barca take one touch and pass all over the pitch and they do it at real speed, also when they don't have the ball, they press so quickly that you can't get past your own half!

[spudski]

The Ajax side of the 70s. Rinus Michels (manager of Ajax and the Dutch national side at the same time) invented so called Total Football. From Wikipedia:

In Total Football, a player who moves out of position is replaced by another member of the team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure. In this fluid system, no outfield player is fixed in a nominal role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender. The only player fixed in a nominal position is the goalkeeper.

Total Football's tactical success depends largely on the adaptability of each footballer within the team, in particular the ability to quickly switch positions depending on the on-field situation. The theory requires players to be comfortable in multiple positions; hence, it places high technical and physical demands on them.

If that sound like Barca it's because Johan Cruyff created the current Barca philosophy. Guardiola has added the constant pressing of the opposition which means it is not only hard to get the ball off them but difficult to keep it on the rare occasions you have it.

Totally correct... and it's not just Barca who have taken on his philosophy, but many Spanish Clubs.

Barca played a completely different style of football yesterday. They didn't play with two outright forwards. They swamped Midfield and knocked the ball around in Triangles. The off the ball movement of all their players was a joy to watch. They gradually edged closer to Manures 18 yard box, and it wasn't until then, that two players released from the midfield and made darting runs into the box. It was all pretty simple stuff, but takes years of practice and understanding.

Imho, the only way Manure could have helped themselves, was for their two forwards to drop deeper, and help out more in midfield...they didn't, and both Rooney and Hernandez spent a lot of the game chasing open spaces.

I'm also old enough to remember the great Brazil side of the 70's... I think Barca just edge it.

[Robbored]

The 1970 Brazil team remain the best I have ever seen. The game was so easy to them and no matter what they never seemed to get into top gear. They didn't have to. Calypso football at its very very best.

The Barca of last night were the best club I've seen by quite a margin. I can't remember any other club team even coming close. They made our PL Champions look very ordinary and the gulf in class was embarrassing.

We invented the game but have stagnated by sticking with the 'British' style. All the top international teams are technically superior to us and have been for decades but we still don't change. Our game is the dark ages.

Spaniard Roberto Martinez started to instil some continental play at Swansea and they are the best footballing side we saw in the Championship last season. His legacy remains at Swansea and he's trying to do the same at Wigan but lacks the money.

Pep Guardiola for Chelsea? . He wants manage in the PL apparently.

[The Batman]

my grandfather always used to tell me about the greatest teams he ever saw back in the 50's and onwards. I was always very interested in players and teams from years ago.

my opinion, there are many teams. added list of players as well who were in those teams at the time. excuse the spellings of names.

Holland 1974 Cryuff, Neeskins, Rep

AC Milan 1990 - Van Basten, Guillit, Rijkaard, Barasi, maldini

Real Madrid 1950's - Puskas, De Stafano, Gento. won 5 Champions leagues in a row.

as mentioned earlier, the Forest and Liverpool teams of the late 70's and 80's.

you could even make the arguement for Arsenal's invincibles, just a shame they didn't do well in Europe that year. Think they lost to Chelsea of all teams.

The Current Spanish squad. World cup and European Champions back to back.

Brazil 1970. no further info needed, everyone knows about them.

edit - sorry, just to add to that. The Busby Babes of Man Utd. Duncan Edwards would have been the greatest ever player had munich not happened.

[steviestevieneville]

Well for me Barca are the greatest team iv'e seen and Messi is better potentially than Maradona and Pele but has to do it at a world cup.There have been many great sides down the years but Barca's passing and movement is on another level. I don't watch much top flight football anymore because imo football has lost it's soul at that level, but i could watch Barcelona all day long. It's how the game should be played.Just like watching us .

[CotswoldRed]

As good as they are, I actually find their style of play a little boring. Its quite pretty to watch but lacks the blood and thunder that I prefer to see on a football field.

There is also very little running down the wings and crossing the ball into the box - its not really part of their philosophy. As has been said already, its non-contact - look at them and they fall over.

They are clearly the best team in the world of football, but I wouldn't want English football to look like that with each team having 50 passes before eventually forging a way through the defence.

[marshy]

I think barca would walk all over the brazil team in the 70s, back then the football was slower than it is now and that's the reason. Barca take one touch and pass all over the pitch and they do it at real speed, also when they don't have the ball, they press so quickly that you can't get past your own half!

It is one of the great myths that football was slower back then. Try telling that to Eusebio or Charlton or Pele in their prime. Also you have to remember that the 1970 Brazil team played in the searing heat of Mexico at a time of day when the sun was at its hottest, not in the cool of an evening. If you've not already seen it try getting hold of Brazil 1 England 0 to see what I mean. When all is said and done both teams had great players, some of the best ever. Who knows who would have won in a one-off cup tie. However, I would have been surprised if Brazil could not have scored at least a couple against that Barca defence.

[grifty]

Barcelona are boring to watch! They play some nice one touch 5 yard passes for 20 minutes then give it to Messi who runs round everyone and scores.

It's like they play 10 defenders and one attacker every game.

Also Xavi is critically over-rated. He's good at getting in the way to break-down attacks and interchanging with Iniesta, but thats all he does. I heard the commentators bumming him because he had made 55 passes after about 70 minutes. I'm going to have a pretty good guess that 40 of them were 5 yards to Iniesta and the other 15 were only 10 yards longer at the most.

He's a decent player, but lives of stats which don't show the true picture.

[Robbored]

As good as they are, I actually find their style of play a little boring. Its quite pretty to watch but lacks the blood and thunder that I prefer to see on a football field.

There is also very little running down the wings and crossing the ball into the box - its not really part of their philosophy. As has been said already, its non-contact - look at them and they fall over.

They are clearly the best team in the world of football, but I wouldn't want English football to look like that with each team having 50 passes before eventually forging a way through the defence.

And there lies the problem from an English perspective, too many people within our game have the same view and thats why the English game is so far behind.

[CotswoldRed]

And there lies the problem from an English perspective, too many people within our game have the same view and thats why the English game is so far behind.

That's right. But I'd be I'd rather it be like this and forego success on the international stage.

[Red 'un']

Well for me Barca are the greatest team iv'e seen and Messi is better potentially than Maradona and Pele but has to do it at a world cup.There have been many great sides down the years but Barca's passing and movement is on another level. I don't watch much top flight football anymore because imo football has lost it's soul at that level, but i could watch Barcelona all day long. It's how the game should be played.Just like watching us .

totally agree with this, would be even more entertaining if they cutout the WWF dramatics from their game

[Redcliffe 78]

We have got a Xavi an Inesta, lets hope the media gives this boy a chance his name is Jack Wilshire, build your side around this guy, and tell 6-8yrs love the ball, pass the ball. Short sharp passes and be available to receive it again, Mr Wenger please tell me you have got a few more English youngsters like him, or shall we ask players like Mr Pullis those to kick, lump and have a long throw in,would you be happy if we played in the Prem like this.

[steviestevieneville]

Barcelona are boring to watch! They play some nice one touch 5 yard passes for 20 minutes then give it to Messi who runs round everyone and scores.

It's like they play 10 defenders and one attacker every game.

Also Xavi is critically over-rated. He's good at getting in the way to break-down attacks and interchanging with Iniesta, but thats all he does. I heard the commentators bumming him because he had made 55 passes after about 70 minutes. I'm going to have a pretty good guess that 40 of them were 5 yards to Iniesta and the other 15 were only 10 yards longer at the most.

He's a decent player, but lives of stats which don't show the true picture.

Each to their own but i thought it was only gasheads that thought this way. I was in the pub the other sunday when a mate (one of the blue few) said "i don't get it with Barcelona and Spain they're boring to watch and pass the ball to much" Me and my city supporting mates fell about laughing, calling him a typical gashead. I asked him if he just watched the ball or there movement off it which imo is the most pleasing part of there play. like i said though each to their own ,it's all about opinions.

[spudski]

Barcelona are boring to watch! They play some nice one touch 5 yard passes for 20 minutes then give it to Messi who runs round everyone and scores.

It's like they play 10 defenders and one attacker every game.

Also Xavi is critically over-rated. He's good at getting in the way to break-down attacks and interchanging with Iniesta, but thats all he does. I heard the commentators bumming him because he had made 55 passes after about 70 minutes. I'm going to have a pretty good guess that 40 of them were 5 yards to Iniesta and the other 15 were only 10 yards longer at the most.

He's a decent player, but lives of stats which don't show the true picture.

Here you go mate...this should keep you happy...

[Redcliffe 78]

Barcelona are boring to watch! They play some nice one touch 5 yard passes for 20 minutes then give it to Messi who runs round everyone and scores.

It's like they play 10 defenders and one attacker every game.

Also Xavi is critically over-rated. He's good at getting in the way to break-down attacks and interchanging with Iniesta, but thats all he does. I heard the commentators bumming him because he had made 55 passes after about 70 minutes. I'm going to have a pretty good guess that 40 of them were 5 yards to Iniesta and the other 15 were only 10 yards longer at the most.

He's a decent player, but lives of stats which don't show the true picture.

Xavi is over rated, Iniesta only passes five yard balls, World football these two?, those Messi play for Spain?, who are World & European current Champions?, did the two players mentioned have any point in this?

[steviestevieneville]

We have got a Xavi an Inesta, lets hope the media gives this boy a chance his name is Jack Wilshire, build your side around this guy, and tell 6-8yrs love the ball, pass the ball. Short sharp passes and be available to receive it again, Mr Wenger please tell me you have got a few more English youngsters like him, or shall we ask players like Mr Pullis those to kick, lump and have a long throw in,would you be happy if we played in the Prem like this.

[dragonreds]

Barcelona are boring to watch! They play some nice one touch 5 yard passes for 20 minutes then give it to Messi who runs round everyone and scores.

It's like they play 10 defenders and one attacker every game.

Also Xavi is critically over-rated. He's good at getting in the way to break-down attacks and interchanging with Iniesta, but thats all he does. I heard the commentators bumming him because he had made 55 passes after about 70 minutes. I'm going to have a pretty good guess that 40 of them were 5 yards to Iniesta and the other 15 were only 10 yards longer at the most.

He's a decent player, but lives of stats which don't show the true picture.

Did you miss the first goal last night?

[Port Said Red]

Barca were so good, they made a contact sport into a non-contact sport. Cant think of many that can do that.

I think that this one of the best statements I have read about them, there were times when it looked more like a basketball game.

but to answer the original poster, the Brazil team of the 70 world cup and the Ajax team already mentioned stick in the memory. When I watched the Brazil side I was 8 and had been watching City

for about 4 years, I remember saying to my dad that I couldn't understand how they could make the most difficult things look easy compared to what we watched every week. Pele was so amazing, he barely seemed to break into a run and yet was everywhere on the pitch orchestrating the players around him.

I think there is a problem though in that we didn't have the blanket coverage and saturation of games that we have now so there is very little film to make a consistent comparison with. From what I have seen of this Barca side they seem to hit this level more often than not, I don't know if that was true of the Brazil or Ajax teams because we see the same clips again and again.

[CotswoldRed]

Here you go mate...this should keep you happy...

How did you gain access to Rovers' training videos?

[havanatopia]

As good as they are, I actually find their style of play a little boring. Its quite pretty to watch but lacks the blood and thunder that I prefer to see on a football field.

There is also very little running down the wings and crossing the ball into the box - its not really part of their philosophy. As has been said already, its non-contact - look at them and they fall over.

They are clearly the best team in the world of football, but I wouldn't want English football to look like that with each team having 50 passes before eventually forging a way through the defence.

Arsenal are the nearest to Barca when it comes to passing, better many would say, as I think you might from your remarks so i take your point. I actually find Arsenal the easiest on the eye to watch; if only they had Iniesta, Xavi, Pujol, Messia (iphone predictive text even changes his name to that!!!) and Villa in their team without the theatrics.

[spudski]

How did you gain access to Rovers' training videos?

In all seriousness though, one of my neighbours from about 4 years ago, used to be responsible for filming Rovers games and Training. He was a good person to know, as you heard no end of trivia about the goings on at both Bristol Clubs.

What this thread does prove from the various replies, is that you can't please every football fan. Everyone see's it different.

Personally i could watch Barcelona and Arsenal play football all day. To me, that's how football is meant to be played. Some like it some don't.

It's a funny ol' game as Saint and Grievsie used to say...

[class_not_gas]

WHITE TREE F. C

Ok lads and lasses i'm 40 years old so got some experience of world class football, but has anyone seen a football team as good as barca. I don't want to go overboard but they are amazing. To older members of this board, are they better than Brazil 70. **** me now there is a comparison

[Mr Popodopolous]

Very hard, some great sides down the years- Liverpool of 1970s and 1980s spring to mind, AC Milan of late 80s to mid 1990s, Ajax of mid 1990s until most of the squad got sold- had that squad stayed together though, they could have evolved into an equivelant side of their era, albeit not as good. Cruyff and Holland with their total football and of course Brazil 1970. Pressing + passing combination sets this side apart IMO, but much competition of course.